[WISPA] NANOG49 presentation: Long Distance Wireless Network Deployment for Support on the Farallon Islands
Thought some folks might be interested in this presentation given at NANOG meeting this week. *Abstract: * This presentation will address planning and deployment for a 50Km link between the City of San Francisco's fiber network and the Farallon Islands off the coast of San Francisco in support of the scientist on the islands and the California Academy of Sciences project to provide a high quality live streaming camera on site. The presentation will cover the requirements for a very limited budget and power consumption, issues of remote deployments, long distance microwave links over the ocean, sensitivity to the largest breeding colony the contiguous United States. Additional network topics will be the requirement to support various services on the island via VLANs, fiber deployment to overcome distance and lightning, RF path calculations, tuning of the radio modulations schemes to provide the best up-time and remote support of a location that may only be accessible once a month. http://nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/abstracts.php?pt=MTYwOCZuYW5vZzQ5nm=nanog49 -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Question #1 of the Day
Since rural broadband can be a tough proposition sometimes in terms of making a profit, businesses that serve these areas may require some creative thinking and partnerships. WISPs often partner with municipalities to obtain an anchor tenant and get a break on site rentals. Are there other interesting models that operators are contemplating that accomplish the same sort of public/private partnership? ie healthcare, distance learning etc. Thanks, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti - Success Feels Good
What will any radio do when it's channel gets jammed with noise. On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, I would still like to know what it's going to do when an entire polarization gets jammed with noise? Will the radio still pass traffic? Or will there be so many errors that it will overtake the link and nothing will work? Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: I jsut wanted to mention, that it really does give peice of mind knowing that there is a MIMO technology out there that I can count on, that is inexpensive. I just finished my 4th Ubiquiti PTP link (over last two weeks). Once again, Painless and perfect. I got 38mb one way 22mb the other with 10Mhz Channel MCS 15. And with 20Mhz channel up to 69mbps one way, and 80 the other. Link Quality nad Capacity showed like 96%. LAtency was also down under 2ms. But my point here is not the speed. It was that it was easy. I just put it up, and it worked. Air view was helpful, finding channel. All 4 installs worked that way. No hassle, no fuss. This last one was a 15 mile link, Rocket5M on each side, with PACWireless 2ft dish on one end and a 23 db panel on the other. Nothing has ever been this easy. With that said There were some confusing things. I ran V on Chain0, and H on Chain1 got -66, then for grins swapped conectors on CPE side only, so Chain0 was H and Chain1 was V and got -65. I do not understand why this happened. I would have thought signal should have dropped by -20 db or so? Wierd. This did not just happen when in Alignment mode. I may have been in MCS7 mode at the time though. So it appears it must be transmitting on both pols in MCS7 mode, I dont have any other way to explain it. But none the less, it just worked. I'm concern about using it at PtMP, because we use Station WDS, and AP only supports up to 6 WDS clients. So it wont scale for PTMP Briding clients. Unless that can be curred. But I tell you for PTP, or a couple associations, its pretty sweet. (I still like T-Link-45s better when I only need 25-30mbps, but the UBNT has shown to be a wonderful experience, also.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti - Success Feels Good
My question (still in topic I think) is will the one chain that's still viable become a duplex channel and still keep passing traffic? Or are the chains just a one way street? Greg On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:06 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: What will any radio do when it's channel gets jammed with noise. On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, I would still like to know what it's going to do when an entire polarization gets jammed with noise? Will the radio still pass traffic? Or will there be so many errors that it will overtake the link and nothing will work? Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: I jsut wanted to mention, that it really does give peice of mind knowing that there is a MIMO technology out there that I can count on, that is inexpensive. I just finished my 4th Ubiquiti PTP link (over last two weeks). Once again, Painless and perfect. I got 38mb one way 22mb the other with 10Mhz Channel MCS 15. And with 20Mhz channel up to 69mbps one way, and 80 the other. Link Quality nad Capacity showed like 96%. LAtency was also down under 2ms. But my point here is not the speed. It was that it was easy. I just put it up, and it worked. Air view was helpful, finding channel. All 4 installs worked that way. No hassle, no fuss. This last one was a 15 mile link, Rocket5M on each side, with PACWireless 2ft dish on one end and a 23 db panel on the other. Nothing has ever been this easy. With that said There were some confusing things. I ran V on Chain0, and H on Chain1 got -66, then for grins swapped conectors on CPE side only, so Chain0 was H and Chain1 was V and got -65. I do not understand why this happened. I would have thought signal should have dropped by -20 db or so? Wierd. This did not just happen when in Alignment mode. I may have been in MCS7 mode at the time though. So it appears it must be transmitting on both pols in MCS7 mode, I dont have any other way to explain it. But none the less, it just worked. I'm concern about using it at PtMP, because we use Station WDS, and AP only supports up to 6 WDS clients. So it wont scale for PTMP Briding clients. Unless that can be curred. But I tell you for PTP, or a couple associations, its pretty sweet. (I still like T-Link-45s better when I only need 25-30mbps, but the UBNT has shown to be a wonderful experience, also.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti - Success Feels Good
Both chains are both two-way streets 2x2 MIMO On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: My question (still in topic I think) is will the one chain that's still viable become a duplex channel and still keep passing traffic? Or are the chains just a one way street? Greg On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:06 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: What will any radio do when it's channel gets jammed with noise. On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Hi, I would still like to know what it's going to do when an entire polarization gets jammed with noise? Will the radio still pass traffic? Or will there be so many errors that it will overtake the link and nothing will work? Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: I jsut wanted to mention, that it really does give peice of mind knowing that there is a MIMO technology out there that I can count on, that is inexpensive. I just finished my 4th Ubiquiti PTP link (over last two weeks). Once again, Painless and perfect. I got 38mb one way 22mb the other with 10Mhz Channel MCS 15. And with 20Mhz channel up to 69mbps one way, and 80 the other. Link Quality nad Capacity showed like 96%. LAtency was also down under 2ms. But my point here is not the speed. It was that it was easy. I just put it up, and it worked. Air view was helpful, finding channel. All 4 installs worked that way. No hassle, no fuss. This last one was a 15 mile link, Rocket5M on each side, with PACWireless 2ft dish on one end and a 23 db panel on the other. Nothing has ever been this easy. With that said There were some confusing things. I ran V on Chain0, and H on Chain1 got -66, then for grins swapped conectors on CPE side only, so Chain0 was H and Chain1 was V and got -65. I do not understand why this happened. I would have thought signal should have dropped by -20 db or so? Wierd. This did not just happen when in Alignment mode. I may have been in MCS7 mode at the time though. So it appears it must be transmitting on both pols in MCS7 mode, I dont have any other way to explain it. But none the less, it just worked. I'm concern about using it at PtMP, because we use Station WDS, and AP only supports up to 6 WDS clients. So it wont scale for PTMP Briding clients. Unless that can be curred. But I tell you for PTP, or a couple associations, its pretty sweet. (I still like T-Link-45s better when I only need 25-30mbps, but the UBNT has shown to be a wonderful experience, also.) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FS: Canopy AP's and Backhauls..
(6) 5700BH20 P8 and P9 models : $400 a link (2) 5200BH20 P8 models : $350 a link (3) 2450AP 1 P10 2 P9's : $400.00 each (NEW) (3) 5200AP P8 models: $175.00 each (1) 5250AP P10 model : $400.00 (NEW) All units have been tested and work properly. Will ask a bulk price for the lot of : $3250.00 if anyone is interested. Or make an offer... Contact offlist rgher...@gmail.com or call 970-630-1879 -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question #1 of the Day
I'm not sure if it's related or not. But we've always given free or deep discounts to libraries, fire stations, city government etc. Basically nearly any locally funded taxing authority. That's always been our way to give back to the community. It's also probably been helpful when we've gone to those same communities and asked for tower locations. Other than that we don't partner with government. We stop at the teamwork point and don't move to the next level of partner. It seems to me that there is, or at least used to be, a concept that government is to set laws to protect the citizenry and enforce those laws. While business is to provide goods and services to the citizenry. When the two become co-mingled in any way, corruption, fraud, waste and abuse become far too likely. Whether it's government passing a law that unfairly benefits one company over another or giving money to one company at the expense of another. shrug Hope that helped at least a little bit :-) marlon - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org To: motor...@afmug.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:40 AM Subject: [WISPA] Question #1 of the Day Since rural broadband can be a tough proposition sometimes in terms of making a profit, businesses that serve these areas may require some creative thinking and partnerships. WISPs often partner with municipalities to obtain an anchor tenant and get a break on site rentals. Are there other interesting models that operators are contemplating that accomplish the same sort of public/private partnership? ie healthcare, distance learning etc. Thanks, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity Site Offline
So you're using R1soft to backup the guests as if they were real machines? Not using the vmx and vmdk? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:15 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: I have seen issues w/ vsphere ... IMHO - use vsphere if on vmware - but make sure you do old fashioned backups as well as making sure you have your copies elsewhere. We use R1Soft's backup system and I have to say it is 100% awesome. The incremental backups are great. I can roll a clients database back to what it was 15 min before (or under) before the crash in minutes. Really nice ! On Jun 18, 2010, at 12:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Obviously that hosting company didn't invest in vSphere... On 6/18/10, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I had a hardware failure 5 years ago. Haven't had any more kids since. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity Site Offline Michael Ford said their hosting provider had hardware failure. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: yup I love the R1soft backup system. It has saved our rear ends many times I can actually restore a database table or entire db of course to a snapshot just 15 min ago. Well worth its weight in Gold - Platinum and silver On Jun 17, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Shaddi Hasan wrote: sooner do I send that do I notice it's coming back. Seems their forums don't have anything more recent than March though... Could be ugly. __ ___ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question #1 of the Day
Well to help stabilize our environment from an RF stand point, about 4 1/2 years ago eight providers in our area (we being one of them) whose coverage either bordered on each other or overlapped a bit got together and formed a co-op. We agreed not to build towers in each other's existing coverage footprints and to share network resources. By that I mean any company could sell service on any other companies network and split the revenue on an agreed upon amount (I can't give out that number, but it was fair to everyone). It eventually evolved into a centralized support center and now most of the companies in it sell under a common brand name even though the physical networks are still operated and maintained by the owners of those networks. Although we recently split from the group and sold our network, it seems to still be a good model for those involved. We never did take full advantage of the support and common marketing for several reasons, but it seems to be working well for those involved. It was nice knowing that the other competent guys in the area were not going to be causing trouble for me. I had enough jokers who didn't know anything to worry about. Cameron Since rural broadband can be a tough proposition sometimes in terms of making a profit, businesses that serve these areas may require some creative thinking and partnerships. WISPs often partner with municipalities to obtain an anchor tenant and get a break on site rentals. Are there other interesting models that operators are contemplating that accomplish the same sort of public/private partnership? ie healthcare, distance learning etc. Thanks, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NANOG49 presentation: Long Distance Wireless Network Deployment for Support on the Farallon Islands
Thank You Courtney, I noticed NANOG49 was sponsored by NETFLIX this year... What was the general opinion of them by the membership? And did they , NETFLIX, have any news or announcements? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Courtney Smith Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 12:06 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] NANOG49 presentation: Long Distance Wireless Network Deployment for Support on the Farallon Islands Thought some folks might be interested in this presentation given at NANOG meeting this week. *Abstract: * This presentation will address planning and deployment for a 50Km link between the City of San Francisco's fiber network and the Farallon Islands off the coast of San Francisco in support of the scientist on the islands and the California Academy of Sciences project to provide a high quality live streaming camera on site. The presentation will cover the requirements for a very limited budget and power consumption, issues of remote deployments, long distance microwave links over the ocean, sensitivity to the largest breeding colony the contiguous United States. Additional network topics will be the requirement to support various services on the island via VLANs, fiber deployment to overcome distance and lightning, RF path calculations, tuning of the radio modulations schemes to provide the best up-time and remote support of a location that may only be accessible once a month. http://nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/abstracts.php?pt=MTYwOCZuYW5vZzQ5nm=nanog 49 -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity Site Offline
yes I run R1soft inside the vm instance itself. Absolutely Awesome. w/ Cpanel clients can even start their own restorations! On Jun 18, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: So you're using R1soft to backup the guests as if they were real machines? Not using the vmx and vmdk? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:15 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: I have seen issues w/ vsphere ... IMHO - use vsphere if on vmware - but make sure you do old fashioned backups as well as making sure you have your copies elsewhere. We use R1Soft's backup system and I have to say it is 100% awesome. The incremental backups are great. I can roll a clients database back to what it was 15 min before (or under) before the crash in minutes. Really nice ! On Jun 18, 2010, at 12:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Obviously that hosting company didn't invest in vSphere... On 6/18/10, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I had a hardware failure 5 years ago. Haven't had any more kids since. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity Site Offline Michael Ford said their hosting provider had hardware failure. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: yup I love the R1soft backup system. It has saved our rear ends many times I can actually restore a database table or entire db of course to a snapshot just 15 min ago. Well worth its weight in Gold - Platinum and silver On Jun 17, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Shaddi Hasan wrote: sooner do I send that do I notice it's coming back. Seems their forums don't have anything more recent than March though... Could be ugly. __ ___ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] For Sale
I've got a bunch of stuff we are trying to get rid of that is left over in our warehouse after the sale: ~50 DSS style mounts - some with long arms, about 20 still in the box they were shipped to us in, another 10 or so that were never assembled and the rest are used. - $150 + shipping for all ~20 Tranzeo CPE's - mix of CPE-200-15, CPE-200-19, CPQ-200-15, and CPQ-200-19 - some work and some don't - $50 plus shipping for all of them ~50 Engenius CB3 + Deluxe radios - pre-deployed but just about every one still runs - $50 + shipping 1 Pac Wireless 2 ft soid dish with radome and 5 GHz feed - $25 + shipping 1 Pac Wireless 2ft solid dish NO radome and 5GHz feed. - $25 + shipping I've also got several Pac grids of different gains and frequencies. If anyone really want's these I can get more details on them. 1U NetEQ box (don't know which model but I'm guessing it is the 10MB version - came out of a wisp we took over) Missing Top cover because a lager fan was added to the heatsink - $250 + shipping Cisco 2600 with 2 T1 interfaces - $50 If you are anywhere near Fort Worth, you can come pick the stuff up, otherwise I'll ship to you via ups or fed-ex ground. Thanks, Cameron WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] OT: 5 Day Mikrotik Training is San Juan PR
Here,s your chance guys to get your 5 Day Full Mikrotik Training Certification PLUS have a great time in beautiful San Juan PR Training and Certification Hosted by Aeronet Wireless and provided by Dennis Burgess Click here for more info: http://www.regonline.com/mikrotik_caribe_training_2010 About PR: http://www.gotopuertorico.com/ Don't Miss IT! Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
First off, I'd like to say hello to the list. Mike Hammett pointed me at it a couple of weeks ago, after I posted a wireless-related question (wireless in the trees) at isp-clec, and he reposted it here. This list is a lot more active... I've been reading the past few months archives and it's really quite informative. I'm a consultant working with competitive service providers all over the place. I don't run a WISP but some clients do. I am working now with a startup that wants to serve some unserved (no cable or DSL, just long-loop POTS/dial-up) remote territory which is about to get middle mile service to the nearest city (year-round pop. 10,000, but it's big for the area) thanks to a stimulus grant. The unserved last mile area covers a strip about 5 to 30 miles from the backbone point. It's the RF environment from hell: Heavily wooded and hilly. The most valuable strip of land is a long narrow beachfront strip a block or so wide, with a palisade (steep wooded hill) blocking it from the rest of the area. Plus it's convex (curves out into the big lake) so your line of sight within the beachside strip is very small. So in most places on the waterfront there's not even cellular service, since the cell sites are over the rim. No WISP is crazy enough to go there. My clients and I, however, are unusually crazy... why else would we be in the communications business? Given that environment, there only way to get to most of the subscribers is via multiple hops. We'd come down to the beach in at least two points near the ends, maybe in the middle too, and build microwave rings. I don't see how this could work with any of the canned mesh solutions. Most, like SkyPilot, only mesh at 5.8 Ghz, and there are some paths that are just too woody for that to work. Some of the subscriber access sites may need 900 too. I think each RF path and local-coverage cell will have to be engineered to local conditions. What looks to be the most flexible approach might be to use the MicroTik Routerboard multi-radio mPCI systems. Then we can use off-the-shelf 5.8 GHz cards and PtP antennas for the clear paths, and plug in the Ubiquiti XR9 or similar high-power 900 radio for tree blasting. User access would probably be sectorized at whatever band works. MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line, though, and a distributor I've been talking to has never tried or sold it. So does anyone on the list have any experience with the HWMPplus mesh? Or any other suggestions? Thanks! -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fiber GePon unit
I have a VersaTech/Tellion GePon unit for sale. If you are interested please contact off list, We paid over $3000 for it. It can do 128 subs. We used it for testing but we decided on a ethernet design. I can send more pictures, and info if you are interested. Model is: EP-3108B -Cameron -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
We have done a number of deployments with this. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 3:23 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh? First off, I'd like to say hello to the list. Mike Hammett pointed me at it a couple of weeks ago, after I posted a wireless-related question (wireless in the trees) at isp-clec, and he reposted it here. This list is a lot more active... I've been reading the past few months archives and it's really quite informative. I'm a consultant working with competitive service providers all over the place. I don't run a WISP but some clients do. I am working now with a startup that wants to serve some unserved (no cable or DSL, just long-loop POTS/dial-up) remote territory which is about to get middle mile service to the nearest city (year-round pop. 10,000, but it's big for the area) thanks to a stimulus grant. The unserved last mile area covers a strip about 5 to 30 miles from the backbone point. It's the RF environment from hell: Heavily wooded and hilly. The most valuable strip of land is a long narrow beachfront strip a block or so wide, with a palisade (steep wooded hill) blocking it from the rest of the area. Plus it's convex (curves out into the big lake) so your line of sight within the beachside strip is very small. So in most places on the waterfront there's not even cellular service, since the cell sites are over the rim. No WISP is crazy enough to go there. My clients and I, however, are unusually crazy... why else would we be in the communications business? Given that environment, there only way to get to most of the subscribers is via multiple hops. We'd come down to the beach in at least two points near the ends, maybe in the middle too, and build microwave rings. I don't see how this could work with any of the canned mesh solutions. Most, like SkyPilot, only mesh at 5.8 Ghz, and there are some paths that are just too woody for that to work. Some of the subscriber access sites may need 900 too. I think each RF path and local-coverage cell will have to be engineered to local conditions. What looks to be the most flexible approach might be to use the MicroTik Routerboard multi-radio mPCI systems. Then we can use off-the-shelf 5.8 GHz cards and PtP antennas for the clear paths, and plug in the Ubiquiti XR9 or similar high-power 900 radio for tree blasting. User access would probably be sectorized at whatever band works. MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line, though, and a distributor I've been talking to has never tried or sold it. So does anyone on the list have any experience with the HWMPplus mesh? Or any other suggestions? Thanks! -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fiber GePon unit
I would forward this to the motor...@afmug.com list. ryan On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: I have a VersaTech/Tellion GePon unit for sale. If you are interested please contact off list, We paid over $3000 for it. It can do 128 subs. We used it for testing but we decided on a ethernet design. I can send more pictures, and info if you are interested. Model is: EP-3108B -Cameron -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line, though, and a distributor I've been talking to has never tried or sold it. So does anyone on the list have any experience with the HWMPplus mesh? Or any other suggestions? Thanks! IMHO it does not scale... is not documented and built on an outdated rip-off copy of another protocol which already developed further and fixed some major scalability issues. But please, do not get discouraged and in case HWMPplus does indeed work with more than 100 nodes, let me know and I would be very interested in how you managed to do that. Of course, your mileage or your needs might differ. Best regards, L. Aaron Kaplan (http://olsr.org, http://www.funkfeuer.at) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
At 6/18/2010 04:47 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: (I wrote:) MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line, though, and a distributor I've been talking to has never tried or sold it. So does anyone on the list have any experience with the HWMPplus mesh? Or any other suggestions? Thanks! IMHO it does not scale... is not documented and built on an outdated rip-off copy of another protocol which already developed further and fixed some major scalability issues. MT says that it's an incompatible extension of an early draft of HWMP. I don't know where HWMP is now or why they forked it. But we're looking for an off-the-shelf short term solution, while we, uh, work on the long-term answer. The nice thing about Routerboards is that you can run other Linux code on them... But please, do not get discouraged and in case HWMPplus does indeed work with more than 100 nodes, let me know and I would be very interested in how you managed to do that. Of course, your mileage or your needs might differ. The site I have in mind would need fewer than 50 nodes. So how many hops and how many nodes would be reasonable limits for HWMPplus? -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Look at one of our vendor members, higher cost than roll your own, but everything in one box, server, radius, etc., etc. It may prove to be a lower cost for a difficult start up and difficult area, leading to better customer satisfaction and word of mouth advertising, faster ROI and penetration. http://www.bluemesh.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 1:23 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh? First off, I'd like to say hello to the list. Mike Hammett pointed me at it a couple of weeks ago, after I posted a wireless-related question (wireless in the trees) at isp-clec, and he reposted it here. This list is a lot more active... I've been reading the past few months archives and it's really quite informative. I'm a consultant working with competitive service providers all over the place. I don't run a WISP but some clients do. I am working now with a startup that wants to serve some unserved (no cable or DSL, just long-loop POTS/dial-up) remote territory which is about to get middle mile service to the nearest city (year-round pop. 10,000, but it's big for the area) thanks to a stimulus grant. The unserved last mile area covers a strip about 5 to 30 miles from the backbone point. It's the RF environment from hell: Heavily wooded and hilly. The most valuable strip of land is a long narrow beachfront strip a block or so wide, with a palisade (steep wooded hill) blocking it from the rest of the area. Plus it's convex (curves out into the big lake) so your line of sight within the beachside strip is very small. So in most places on the waterfront there's not even cellular service, since the cell sites are over the rim. No WISP is crazy enough to go there. My clients and I, however, are unusually crazy... why else would we be in the communications business? Given that environment, there only way to get to most of the subscribers is via multiple hops. We'd come down to the beach in at least two points near the ends, maybe in the middle too, and build microwave rings. I don't see how this could work with any of the canned mesh solutions. Most, like SkyPilot, only mesh at 5.8 Ghz, and there are some paths that are just too woody for that to work. Some of the subscriber access sites may need 900 too. I think each RF path and local-coverage cell will have to be engineered to local conditions. What looks to be the most flexible approach might be to use the MicroTik Routerboard multi-radio mPCI systems. Then we can use off-the-shelf 5.8 GHz cards and PtP antennas for the clear paths, and plug in the Ubiquiti XR9 or similar high-power 900 radio for tree blasting. User access would probably be sectorized at whatever band works. MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line, though, and a distributor I've been talking to has never tried or sold it. So does anyone on the list have any experience with the HWMPplus mesh? Or any other suggestions? Thanks! -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] For Sale
Those are not used CB3's anymore, those are power pingers!!! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 12:59 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] For Sale I've got a bunch of stuff we are trying to get rid of that is left over in our warehouse after the sale: ~50 DSS style mounts - some with long arms, about 20 still in the box they were shipped to us in, another 10 or so that were never assembled and the rest are used. - $150 + shipping for all ~20 Tranzeo CPE's - mix of CPE-200-15, CPE-200-19, CPQ-200-15, and CPQ-200-19 - some work and some don't - $50 plus shipping for all of them ~50 Engenius CB3 + Deluxe radios - pre-deployed but just about every one still runs - $50 + shipping 1 Pac Wireless 2 ft soid dish with radome and 5 GHz feed - $25 + shipping 1 Pac Wireless 2ft solid dish NO radome and 5GHz feed. - $25 + shipping I've also got several Pac grids of different gains and frequencies. If anyone really want's these I can get more details on them. 1U NetEQ box (don't know which model but I'm guessing it is the 10MB version - came out of a wisp we took over) Missing Top cover because a lager fan was added to the heatsink - $250 + shipping Cisco 2600 with 2 T1 interfaces - $50 If you are anywhere near Fort Worth, you can come pick the stuff up, otherwise I'll ship to you via ups or fed-ex ground. Thanks, Cameron WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Hi Fred, In my opinion there is bit of an oxymoron in your original question / thought.. On-one hand you are looking for a Mesh product, which implies a self configuring / self healing product... but you are also pointing out that this is not going to work as a whole and you will have to Engineer the links because of the Terrain etc... Typically most folks think of a deployment as one (Mesh... turn on, let it self connect / self configure etc) or the other .. Engineered Link Engineered Routing Protocol Are you sure this is what you are needing ? You can very easily do a hybrid approach.. where you have an Engineered Back Bone Links (these could be fully meshed, using OSPF or OSLR..etc) and you can do local distribution using a Mesh protocol if it want to make it easy for the EndUsers connection With this you can mix and match protocol /equipment / radios etc. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 6/18/2010 5:20 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 6/18/2010 04:47 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: (I wrote:) MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line, though, and a distributor I've been talking to has never tried or sold it. So does anyone on the list have any experience with the HWMPplus mesh? Or any other suggestions? Thanks! IMHO it does not scale... is not documented and built on an outdated rip-off copy of another protocol which already developed further and fixed some major scalability issues. MT says that it's an incompatible extension of an early draft of HWMP. I don't know where HWMP is now or why they forked it. But we're looking for an off-the-shelf short term solution, while we, uh, work on the long-term answer. The nice thing about Routerboards is that you can run other Linux code on them... But please, do not get discouraged and in case HWMPplus does indeed work with more than 100 nodes, let me know and I would be very interested in how you managed to do that. Of course, your mileage or your needs might differ. The site I have in mind would need fewer than 50 nodes. So how many hops and how many nodes would be reasonable limits for HWMPplus? -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
At 6/18/2010 05:49 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Look at one of our vendor members, higher cost than roll your own, but everything in one box, server, radius, etc., etc. It may prove to be a lower cost for a difficult start up and difficult area, leading to better customer satisfaction and word of mouth advertising, faster ROI and penetration. http://www.bluemesh.net This doesn't look too much unlike what we had in mind, hardware-wise; we would have a vendor (who might be a WISPA member; it might go to bid) configure the boxes to our spec. Bluemesh seems to be using Ubiquiti rather than Microtik routers, and I like its 117v feed (since we'll probably mount a lot of these on power poles). Frankly UBNT and MT companies seem to be competing quite directly on a lot of these products, so it's not a big deal which one to use. UBNT is running OpenWRT Kamikaze code, while MT has their own RouterOS. It's not clear if Bluemesh is basing its system on Kamikaze or something else. Indeed there's a dearth of information on the Bluemesh site to say what it can do. Not even a flyer on the radios, their power, etc. At this point we're wide open to suggestions. Bear in mind that we are not looking for an IP solution, but for a Layer 1 or Layer 2 mesh. (SkyPilot is layer 1, with Ethernet at the edges. Perfect except for frequency agility. An it ain't cheap.) So tell me more... -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 1:23 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh? First off, I'd like to say hello to the list. Mike Hammett pointed me at it a couple of weeks ago, after I posted a wireless-related question (wireless in the trees) at isp-clec, and he reposted it here. This list is a lot more active... I've been reading the past few months archives and it's really quite informative. I'm a consultant working with competitive service providers all over the place. I don't run a WISP but some clients do. I am working now with a startup that wants to serve some unserved (no cable or DSL, just long-loop POTS/dial-up) remote territory which is about to get middle mile service to the nearest city (year-round pop. 10,000, but it's big for the area) thanks to a stimulus grant. The unserved last mile area covers a strip about 5 to 30 miles from the backbone point. It's the RF environment from hell: Heavily wooded and hilly. The most valuable strip of land is a long narrow beachfront strip a block or so wide, with a palisade (steep wooded hill) blocking it from the rest of the area. Plus it's convex (curves out into the big lake) so your line of sight within the beachside strip is very small. So in most places on the waterfront there's not even cellular service, since the cell sites are over the rim. No WISP is crazy enough to go there. My clients and I, however, are unusually crazy... why else would we be in the communications business? Given that environment, there only way to get to most of the subscribers is via multiple hops. We'd come down to the beach in at least two points near the ends, maybe in the middle too, and build microwave rings. I don't see how this could work with any of the canned mesh solutions. Most, like SkyPilot, only mesh at 5.8 Ghz, and there are some paths that are just too woody for that to work. Some of the subscriber access sites may need 900 too. I think each RF path and local-coverage cell will have to be engineered to local conditions. What looks to be the most flexible approach might be to use the MicroTik Routerboard multi-radio mPCI systems. Then we can use off-the-shelf 5.8 GHz cards and PtP antennas for the clear paths, and plug in the Ubiquiti XR9 or similar high-power 900 radio for tree blasting. User access would probably be sectorized at whatever band works. MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line, though, and a distributor I've been talking to has never tried or sold it. So does anyone on the list have any experience with the HWMPplus mesh? Or any other suggestions? Thanks! -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
A couple of more folks to look at Keeping in mind that they type of a Mesh Solution you are looking for is more of an 'integration' of off-the shelf products.. If you wish to roll your own these folks can provide you with Mesh Software to run on your choice of single board routers..and radios.. http://www.wilibox.com/products/wili-mesh Another set of folks who possibly do a custom design integration http://www.meshdynamics.com Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 6/18/2010 6:19 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 6/18/2010 05:49 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Look at one of our vendor members, higher cost than roll your own, but everything in one box, server, radius, etc., etc. It may prove to be a lower cost for a difficult start up and difficult area, leading to better customer satisfaction and word of mouth advertising, faster ROI and penetration. http://www.bluemesh.net This doesn't look too much unlike what we had in mind, hardware-wise; we would have a vendor (who might be a WISPA member; it might go to bid) configure the boxes to our spec. Bluemesh seems to be using Ubiquiti rather than Microtik routers, and I like its 117v feed (since we'll probably mount a lot of these on power poles). Frankly UBNT and MT companies seem to be competing quite directly on a lot of these products, so it's not a big deal which one to use. UBNT is running OpenWRT Kamikaze code, while MT has their own RouterOS. It's not clear if Bluemesh is basing its system on Kamikaze or something else. Indeed there's a dearth of information on the Bluemesh site to say what it can do. Not even a flyer on the radios, their power, etc. At this point we're wide open to suggestions. Bear in mind that we are not looking for an IP solution, but for a Layer 1 or Layer 2 mesh. (SkyPilot is layer 1, with Ethernet at the edges. Perfect except for frequency agility. An it ain't cheap.) So tell me more... -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 1:23 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh? First off, I'd like to say hello to the list. Mike Hammett pointed me at it a couple of weeks ago, after I posted a wireless-related question (wireless in the trees) at isp-clec, and he reposted it here. This list is a lot more active... I've been reading the past few months archives and it's really quite informative. I'm a consultant working with competitive service providers all over the place. I don't run a WISP but some clients do. I am working now with a startup that wants to serve some unserved (no cable or DSL, just long-loop POTS/dial-up) remote territory which is about to get middle mile service to the nearest city (year-round pop.10,000, but it's big for the area) thanks to a stimulus grant. The unserved last mile area covers a strip about 5 to 30 miles from the backbone point. It's the RF environment from hell: Heavily wooded and hilly. The most valuable strip of land is a long narrow beachfront strip a block or so wide, with a palisade (steep wooded hill) blocking it from the rest of the area. Plus it's convex (curves out into the big lake) so your line of sight within the beachside strip is very small. So in most places on the waterfront there's not even cellular service, since the cell sites are over the rim. No WISP is crazy enough to go there. My clients and I, however, are unusually crazy... why else would we be in the communications business? Given that environment, there only way to get to most of the subscribers is via multiple hops. We'd come down to the beach in at least two points near the ends, maybe in the middle too, and build microwave rings. I don't see how this could work with any of the canned mesh solutions. Most, like SkyPilot, only mesh at 5.8 Ghz, and there are some paths that are just too woody for that to work. Some of the subscriber access sites may need 900 too. I think each RF path and local-coverage cell will have to be engineered to local conditions. What looks to be the most flexible approach might be to use the MicroTik Routerboard multi-radio mPCI systems. Then we can use off-the-shelf 5.8 GHz cards and PtP antennas for the clear paths, and plug in the Ubiquiti XR9 or similar high-power 900 radio for tree blasting. User access would probably be sectorized at whatever band works. MicroTik says they have a meshing protocol, HWMPplus, that provides Layer 2 (this is critical; we're not building a Layer 3 network, and with this many hops, latency and loss are critical) dynamic meshing, essentially applying a routing protocol (smarter than bridge STPs) among nodes. I can't find any documentation for it on line,
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
At 6/18/2010 05:52 PM, you wrote: Hi Fred, In my opinion there is bit of an oxymoron in your original question / thought.. On-one hand you are looking for a Mesh product, which implies a self configuring / self healing product... but you are also pointing out that this is not going to work as a whole and you will have to Engineer the links because of the Terrain etc... Typically most folks think of a deployment as one (Mesh... turn on, let it self connect / self configure etc) or the other .. Engineered Link Engineered Routing Protocol Are you sure this is what you are needing ? You can very easily do a hybrid approach.. where you have an Engineered Back Bone Links (these could be fully meshed, using OSPF or OSLR..etc) and you can do local distribution using a Mesh protocol if it want to make it easy for the EndUsers connection With this you can mix and match protocol /equipment / radios etc. It's a question of semantics. I use mesh to refer to the topology, and to having more radios than injection points. Yes, it needs to be self-healing, and to some extent may be self-configuring, but that's software. The radio links are all engineered; it's too difficult a location to do otherwise. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Even mesh networks have to be engineered, especially if you want it to work well. One could just scatter mesh radios and that would give self-configuration and self-healing but the performance wouldn't be good. To get self-healing you have to have redundancy and then you start getting into self-interference and frequency-reuse issues. The commercial grade mesh gear is better but quite expensive. Probably a better way would be to use a standard back haul with access point network and if you want redundancy put in extra back hauls and extra access points. The back hauls could switch over automatically, and the AP's would just need be commanded on or off. If the back hauls can be arranged such that they are in a ring topology, then you would have the back haul redundancy without a lot of extra hardware. Greg I'm not sure you really need the mesh topology. That's better suited to On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: It's a question of semantics. I use mesh to refer to the topology, and to having more radios than injection points. Yes, it needs to be self-healing, and to some extent may be self-configuring, but that's software. The radio links are all engineered; it's too difficult a location to do otherwise. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Hi! Typically most folks think of a deployment as one (Mesh... turn on, let it self connect / self configure etc) or the other .. Engineered Link Engineered Routing Protocol Are you sure this is what you are needing ? You can very easily do a hybrid approach.. where you have an Engineered Back Bone Links (these could be fully meshed, using OSPF or OSLR..etc) and you can do local distribution using a Mesh protocol if it want to make it easy for the EndUsers connection With this you can mix and match protocol /equipment / radios etc. I agree with Faisal here... Our experience from the freifunk style networks in Europe is that a mix of backbone/mesh nodes and layer 3 meshing gets the job done. Why layer 3? Because you don't want it all to be a single layer 2 broadcast area :) Your spectrum is just too valuable to send every broadcast message to all others in the network. Combine that with BGP/OSPF/whatever backbone links which are built point to point (or point to a few multipoints) with high capacity and you are set. This way you can even have layer 2 meshes interoperating with different meshes or OSPF/BGP/IS-IS/whatever protocol backbone networks. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
By the way - I forgot to say that OLSR.org does run on Mikrotik (with some minor tricks on getting a pkg installed ;-) Are you sure this is what you are needing ? You can very easily do a hybrid approach.. where you have an Engineered Back Bone Links (these could be fully meshed, using OSPF or OSLR..etc) and you can do local distribution using a Mesh protocol if it want to make it easy for the EndUsers connection With this you can mix and match protocol /equipment / radios etc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Are you seeing benefits from the mesh approach that you wouldn't get from backhaul/APs? Doesn't the mesh gear usually have omni-directional antennas which can be problematic in an RF polluted environment. Greg On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:41 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: I agree with Faisal here... Our experience from the freifunk style networks in Europe is that a mix of backbone/mesh nodes and layer 3 meshing gets the job done. Why layer 3? Because you don't want it all to be a single layer 2 broadcast area :) Your spectrum is just too valuable to send every broadcast message to all others in the network. Combine that with BGP/OSPF/whatever backbone links which are built point to point (or point to a few multipoints) with high capacity and you are set. This way you can even have layer 2 meshes interoperating with different meshes or OSPF/BGP/IS-IS/whatever protocol backbone networks. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Greg, With all due respect, while you statements may be accurate for particular situations, but they are totally inaccurate for other situations. These Generic statements do not hold true for today Mesh networks. e.g. You can deploy a Ruckus Wireless Mesh, (they now have both indoor outdoor solution) where the radios self configure ...from the zone flex controller and you will not have any 'engineering', 'performance' or 'self-interference' , frequency-reuse issues Commercial grade mesh stuff is expensive, because of the 'secret sauce' they use to manage all of the above key items you pointed out.. Today, all of the folks who are deploying 'Mesh' topology are really trying to address some particular key set of challenges for that particular deployment...even if they don't realize it...As such there are solutions available that address such conditions However having a Mesh Network to solve all issues, in all conditions, for any circumstance...is wishful thinking. I completely agree with your last statements... and this is exactly what I was also trying to imply and suggest to Fred. To Fred.. I am not sure as to why you want to build a L2 network.but as a 'mesh' and L2 tend not to be two things that go together well (sames challenges such as 'meshing' Ethernet switches..!) would being able to do 'Ethernet Emulation' on IP e.g. EoIP or MPLS cover your network requirements ? Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 6/18/2010 6:59 PM, Greg Ihnen wrote: Even mesh networks have to be engineered, especially if you want it to work well. One could just scatter mesh radios and that would give self-configuration and self-healing but the performance wouldn't be good. To get self-healing you have to have redundancy and then you start getting into self-interference and frequency-reuse issues. The commercial grade mesh gear is better but quite expensive. Probably a better way would be to use a standard back haul with access point network and if you want redundancy put in extra back hauls and extra access points. The back hauls could switch over automatically, and the AP's would just need be commanded on or off. If the back hauls can be arranged such that they are in a ring topology, then you would have the back haul redundancy without a lot of extra hardware. Greg I'm not sure you really need the mesh topology. That's better suited to On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: It's a question of semantics. I use mesh to refer to the topology, and to having more radios than injection points. Yes, it needs to be self-healing, and to some extent may be self-configuring, but that's software. The radio links are all engineered; it's too difficult a location to do otherwise. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.. e.g. There are a number of large mesh networks (or mess-networks) using Meraki / Open Mesh etc... (in these cases, the Mesh is used for being able to provide access to end users, while the Internet Connection is feed at multiple pointsvia separate connections... needless to say quality and speed of the connections is not a major requirement ... best effort services ... but resiliency and self configuration is the goal..) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 6/18/2010 7:21 PM, Greg Ihnen wrote: Are you seeing benefits from the mesh approach that you wouldn't get from backhaul/APs? Doesn't the mesh gear usually have omni-directional antennas which can be problematic in an RF polluted environment. Greg On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:41 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: I agree with Faisal here... Our experience from the freifunk style networks in Europe is that a mix of backbone/mesh nodes and layer 3 meshing gets the job done. Why layer 3? Because you don't want it all to be a single layer 2 broadcast area :) Your spectrum is just too valuable to send every broadcast message to all others in the network. Combine that with BGP/OSPF/whatever backbone links which are built point to point (or point to a few multipoints) with high capacity and you are set. This way you can even have layer 2 meshes interoperating with different meshes or OSPF/BGP/IS-IS/whatever protocol backbone networks. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
At 6/18/2010 07:21 PM, Greg Ihnen wrote: Are you seeing benefits from the mesh approach that you wouldn't get from backhaul/APs? Doesn't the mesh gear usually have omni-directional antennas which can be problematic in an RF polluted environment. There's more than one type of mesh out there, and I may need to be clearer. The first generation WiFi mesh, with the same frequency used for access and meshing, was a bad joke. It reminded me of the AX.25 digipeater networks that we played with in the 1980s. They demonstrated, in slow motion, what didn't work! The early Trangos, I think, were like that. They could mesh about one hop from the injection point. At that point in time I discounted mesh networks as a bad idea. Then came multi-frequency meshes. These do the backhaul on one frequency and access on another. (Okay, SkyPilot can use the same frequency for both, but it's layer 1 synchronous. That works too.) This is what I'm talking about. Probably a better way would be to use a standard back haul with access point network and if you want redundancy put in extra back hauls and extra access points. The back hauls could switch over automatically, and the AP's would just need be commanded on or off. Well, that's what the hardware might look like. A typical box would have three radios, two for a backhaul chain and one for access, or maybe more access radios if sectorized. We can't use standard one-hop backhaul because the customers are in a tough location (basically wedged between a rock and a wet place) that's a few radio hops away from anywhere. And that's one reason why per-hop latency is all-critical. I could put a chain of back-to-back radios there, but would run out of frequencies and room on the poles/towers before I got a few hops in... I need to extract some of the signal at several stops along the chain. I've been playing with RadioMobile and while I think its land cover forest-loss computations are *way* optimistic (even pushing it to 180%), it has helped identify the only possible ways in and out. I call that a mesh... but it has nothing in common with urban meshes, LAN meshes, or those awful home-router toys. Aaron added, .. and layer 3 meshing gets the job done. Why layer 3? Because you don't want it all to be a single layer 2 broadcast area :) I don't want a layer 2 broadcast mesh, actually. I'm thinking more in terms of Carrier Ethernet, if I can make that work. It's switched, not bridged. Huge difference. I've got some bridged-network horror stories to tell myself, and I don't like bridging. But suffice to say that the project in question is not exactly a pure IP network. That's a story for another time though. Your spectrum is just too valuable to send every broadcast message to all others in the network. Combine that with BGP/OSPF/whatever backbone links which are built point to point (or point to a few multipoints) with high capacity and you are set. This way you can even have layer 2 meshes interoperating with different meshes or OSPF/BGP/IS-IS/whatever protocol backbone networks. HMWPplus seems to be doing an SPF protocol among nodes, at a layer below IP. That seems right to me. BTW I'm pretty familiar with SPF routing concepts. Way back in 1986 or so, I started writing RSPF, an SPF routing protocol for IP over radio. A couple of guys implemented it, more or less, in Linux, in the 1990s. But it's pretty much forgotten. I've moved past IP; it's just so T.C. So I am really open to suggestions, and I hope I've made my requirements clearer. This is a challenge to serve the most impossible place we know of; our second expected project area some miles away looks to be just a bit easier. (Still convex beach and wooded hills, but it doesn't look as steep.) -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
Hi Aaron, Any one installed OSLR on Ubiquiti M Series ? Any info / instructions on that ? Thanks. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 6/18/2010 7:12 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: By the way - I forgot to say that OLSR.org does run on Mikrotik (with some minor tricks on getting a pkg installed ;-) Are you sure this is what you are needing ? You can very easily do a hybrid approach.. where you have an Engineered Back Bone Links (these could be fully meshed, using OSPF or OSLR..etc) and you can do local distribution using a Mesh protocol if it want to make it easy for the EndUsers connection With this you can mix and match protocol /equipment / radios etc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
that's a few radio hops away from anywhere. And that's one reason why per-hop latency is all-critical To put things in context... from what we have seen typical latency between radios (for a single link) are between 1ms to 2ms... The Moto Canopy are an exception they have much higher latencybecause of what they do and how they do it so even if you are going thru 20 radios.. you are talking about 15-20 ms Unless of-course the link is saturated or performing poorly due to poor signal. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 6/18/2010 8:27 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 6/18/2010 07:21 PM, Greg Ihnen wrote: Are you seeing benefits from the mesh approach that you wouldn't get from backhaul/APs? Doesn't the mesh gear usually have omni-directional antennas which can be problematic in an RF polluted environment. There's more than one type of mesh out there, and I may need to be clearer. The first generation WiFi mesh, with the same frequency used for access and meshing, was a bad joke. It reminded me of the AX.25 digipeater networks that we played with in the 1980s. They demonstrated, in slow motion, what didn't work! The early Trangos, I think, were like that. They could mesh about one hop from the injection point. At that point in time I discounted mesh networks as a bad idea. Then came multi-frequency meshes. These do the backhaul on one frequency and access on another. (Okay, SkyPilot can use the same frequency for both, but it's layer 1 synchronous. That works too.) This is what I'm talking about. Probably a better way would be to use a standard back haul with access point network and if you want redundancy put in extra back hauls and extra access points. The back hauls could switch over automatically, and the AP's would just need be commanded on or off. Well, that's what the hardware might look like. A typical box would have three radios, two for a backhaul chain and one for access, or maybe more access radios if sectorized. We can't use standard one-hop backhaul because the customers are in a tough location (basically wedged between a rock and a wet place) that's a few radio hops away from anywhere. And that's one reason why per-hop latency is all-critical. I could put a chain of back-to-back radios there, but would run out of frequencies and room on the poles/towers before I got a few hops in... I need to extract some of the signal at several stops along the chain. I've been playing with RadioMobile and while I think its land cover forest-loss computations are *way* optimistic (even pushing it to 180%), it has helped identify the only possible ways in and out. I call that a mesh... but it has nothing in common with urban meshes, LAN meshes, or those awful home-router toys. Aaron added, .. and layer 3 meshing gets the job done. Why layer 3? Because you don't want it all to be a single layer 2 broadcast area :) I don't want a layer 2 broadcast mesh, actually. I'm thinking more in terms of Carrier Ethernet, if I can make that work. It's switched, not bridged. Huge difference. I've got some bridged-network horror stories to tell myself, and I don't like bridging. But suffice to say that the project in question is not exactly a pure IP network. That's a story for another time though. Your spectrum is just too valuable to send every broadcast message to all others in the network. Combine that with BGP/OSPF/whatever backbone links which are built point to point (or point to a few multipoints) with high capacity and you are set. This way you can even have layer 2 meshes interoperating with different meshes or OSPF/BGP/IS-IS/whatever protocol backbone networks. HMWPplus seems to be doing an SPF protocol among nodes, at a layer below IP. That seems right to me. BTW I'm pretty familiar with SPF routing concepts. Way back in 1986 or so, I started writing RSPF, an SPF routing protocol for IP over radio. A couple of guys implemented it, more or less, in Linux, in the 1990s. But it's pretty much forgotten. I've moved past IP; it's just so T.C. So I am really open to suggestions, and I hope I've made my requirements clearer. This is a challenge to serve the most impossible place we know of; our second expected project area some miles away looks to be just a bit easier. (Still convex beach and wooded hills, but it doesn't look as steep.) -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Greg Ihnen wrote: Are you seeing benefits from the mesh approach that you wouldn't get from backhaul/APs? Doesn't the mesh gear usually have omni-directional antennas which can be problematic in an RF polluted environment. Yes, note two things please: 1) you can of course also have a mesh approach with point2multipoint (and even in infrastructure mode!) 2) meshing on layer 3 at least gives you very fast reconfiguration when links break. So in most community networks in Europe that I know (including funkfeuer.at) we use it actually as a fast redundant path selection protocol. (of course, we also actively develop and work on the olsr.org so we might one day end up with a multipath routing meshing daemon. this would be my dream) a. Greg On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:41 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: I agree with Faisal here... Our experience from the freifunk style networks in Europe is that a mix of backbone/mesh nodes and layer 3 meshing gets the job done. Why layer 3? Because you don't want it all to be a single layer 2 broadcast area :) Your spectrum is just too valuable to send every broadcast message to all others in the network. Combine that with BGP/OSPF/whatever backbone links which are built point to point (or point to a few multipoints) with high capacity and you are set. This way you can even have layer 2 meshes interoperating with different meshes or OSPF/BGP/IS-IS/whatever protocol backbone networks. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MicroTik HWMPplus mesh?
On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:36 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Aaron, Any one installed OSLR on Ubiquiti M Series ? Any info / instructions on that ? I will check that - but we for sure installed it on other AirOS systems. In general (this is one of the big advantage of OLSR being on layer 3) , OLSR will run on any linux (or BSD) based system without modifications. Simply need to re-compile it. A. Once I get back to Vienna, I might just try that and document it on the olsr.org webppage. Unless someone else beats me to it :)) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question #1 of the Day
I'm with you, pal. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question #1 of the Day I'm not sure if it's related or not. But we've always given free or deep discounts to libraries, fire stations, city government etc. Basically nearly any locally funded taxing authority. That's always been our way to give back to the community. It's also probably been helpful when we've gone to those same communities and asked for tower locations. Other than that we don't partner with government. We stop at the teamwork point and don't move to the next level of partner. It seems to me that there is, or at least used to be, a concept that government is to set laws to protect the citizenry and enforce those laws. While business is to provide goods and services to the citizenry. When the two become co-mingled in any way, corruption, fraud, waste and abuse become far too likely. Whether it's government passing a law that unfairly benefits one company over another or giving money to one company at the expense of another. shrug Hope that helped at least a little bit :-) marlon - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org To: motor...@afmug.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:40 AM Subject: [WISPA] Question #1 of the Day Since rural broadband can be a tough proposition sometimes in terms of making a profit, businesses that serve these areas may require some creative thinking and partnerships. WISPs often partner with municipalities to obtain an anchor tenant and get a break on site rentals. Are there other interesting models that operators are contemplating that accomplish the same sort of public/private partnership? ie healthcare, distance learning etc. Thanks, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] What, no response to the FCC vote today?
This may be our last chance to survive in this business. I know what my position is, and it should be clear to most of you. However, the FCC needs to hear from the smaller operators, and from small business saying Hands off! We can't afford your wishes. And they need to hear it from the providers and the customers of those providers. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
