Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Blake Covarrubias]

Currently only getting v6 transit through one of my upstreams, Internet 
Operating Services of Arizona. They peer with 7 other upstreams for native v6 
transit. I still need to turn up IPv6 peering sessions with my other transits.

No major issues internally. Still feel like I'm in uncharted territory with 
providing access to customers.

--
Blake Covarrubias


On Aug 4, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Robert West wrote:

> Who is your upstream provider?  Any issues with them passing the V6?
> 
> Been thinking of making that jump but it seems to be a bastard scheme.  Gets
> no respect.  Any major issues?
> 
> Bob-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:24 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
> 
> We've been using v6 internally for about a year.
> 
> We've recently begun providing v6 to select customers; usually the ones with
> /26 or more of v4 address space. At that size they're usually technically
> competent, and thus ready to start migrating.
> 
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
> 
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 6:04 AM, Robert West wrote:
> 
>> How long have been using the v6?  
>> 
>> Bob-
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:55 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>> 
>> I wasn't aware so many WISPs charge for static and/or public IPs.
>> 
>> We have a /19 and /21 IPv4 allocation, and a /32 v6 allocation. All 
>> customers get dynamic, possibly changing, public IPs. We charge for a 
>> consistent public IP.
>> 
>> NAT causes too many potential headaches for us to even bother with it.
>> 
>> --
>> Blake Covarrubias
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
>> 
>>> True. Sounds like a bandwidth hog to me.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, "Mike"  wrote:
>>> 
 Simple analysis might expose that customer to be one you'd rather let
> go.
 Or not.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of John Thomas
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:27 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
 
 And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, I 
 would find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month.
 
 John
 
 Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
 
> Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal" 
> according to
>> the
 
> customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month
>> *grins*
> and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign that 
> static to
 the
> customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves.
> 
> -Kurt Fankhauser
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
> 
> 
>> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM?
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy
>> 
>> wrote:
>>> I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would 
>>> let me
 do
>>> my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, 
>>> telnet
 and
>>> web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map every 
>>> port from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing access 
>>> to anyone else.
>>> 
>>> In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable UPnP 
>>> if
>> you
>>> are doing NAT.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Adam Kennedy
>>> Network Engineer
>>> Omnicity, Inc.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>> 
>>> Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always been 
>>> told that it's a big security hole.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts on that?
>>> marlon
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT.
>>> 
>>> When I was working with MT to fix the upnp issue with Xboxes. I 
>>> have it marked as 4.6

Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Robert West]

So maybe a Canopy style backhaul would be the better choice?  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of MDK
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 1:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

Fred, a guy on the UBNT site was offering some RF shields for the UBNT 
sectors.   Those, combined with spacing and screening and grounding, 
appeared to bring the RXSL down low enough to actually put the same 
frequencies on the same tower.Or, if it were a building or water tank,

But, Airmax does not provide immunity from self interference on its own.   I

know, I tried.   I put a backhaul and sector on the same frequency and when 
the sector was busy, it seriously degraded the backhaul's throughput.   And 
vice versa.



++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

--
From: "Fred R. Goldstein" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:31 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they have 
> to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies 
> plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
>
>  --
>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
> --
> --
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --
> --
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[MDK]

Fred, a guy on the UBNT site was offering some RF shields for the UBNT 
sectors.   Those, combined with spacing and screening and grounding, 
appeared to bring the RXSL down low enough to actually put the same 
frequencies on the same tower.Or, if it were a building or water tank,

But, Airmax does not provide immunity from self interference on its own.   I 
know, I tried.   I put a backhaul and sector on the same frequency and when 
the sector was busy, it seriously degraded the backhaul's throughput.   And 
vice versa.



++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

--
From: "Fred R. Goldstein" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:31 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
> have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies
> plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
>
>  --
>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Robert West]

**sigh**

 

We'll talk.  

 

I'll get the others together again.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:54 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

Never!

On Aug 5, 2010 12:52 AM, "Robert West"  wrote:

Always in denial.  We talked about that in therapy, remember?

 

You first have to admit that you have a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:02 AM


To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders



 

Excuse me?  Never had Old Milwaukee, I am not a very experienced drinker.
Even though there is...






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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Josh Luthman]

Never!

On Aug 5, 2010 12:52 AM, "Robert West"  wrote:

Always in denial.  We talked about that in therapy, remember?



You first have to admit that you have a problem.











*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:02 AM


To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders





Excuse me?  Never had Old Milwaukee, I am not a very experienced drinker.
Even though there is...




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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Robert West]

So stop already.

 

You're bumming me out.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:05 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

True.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I know.

 

It's a given.

 

Have a wasteful day.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:46 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

You suck.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:14 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I use the Active@ programs in our shop.  Have for years.  They charge $$ for
it though.  (But I don't recall every paying anything  Hmm...)  And
as Josh says, don't use the PC until you use something to recover.  You run
the risk of overwriting the files you want to recover.  The best case is to
remove the hard drive and slave it in another machine then run  whatever
recovery program you use.  

 

I do it pretty much every day.  No one does backups, including me.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:42 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I am in the most need right now, I have a separate partition that is
dedicated solely to backup purposes. I had about 20GB of folders and files
and I accidentally sent them to the Recycle Bin, but apparently the recycle
bin can't handle that many so it just deleted them all. What file recovery
program works best to restore folders with the files to the way it was
before this happened?

 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com

 

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Robert West]

Always in denial.  We talked about that in therapy, remember?

 

You first have to admit that you have a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:02 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

Excuse me?  Never had Old Milwaukee, I am not a very experienced drinker.
Even though there is a kegerator 25 feet away...

On Aug 4, 2010 11:41 PM, "Robert West"  wrote:

But NOT Old Milwaukee.  Josh has a jones for Old Milwaukee.We've had an
intervention but he still insists on the old Milwaukee.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman


Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:57 AM

To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders



 

You owe me a beer :P

Glad it worked for you.  The date I found that was in 2003!
>
> On Aug 4,...






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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/4/2010 11:50 PM, Robert West wrote:
>A mess.  Just run Air View and it will answer your question.  As long as one
>radio can see one of the other radios, it's messed up to no end.  I have
>seen, however, some pretty nice but large shields that will isolate the
>sectors but in the end, just change the freakin' channels, already!
>

The radios aren't up yet.  I'm laying out the links map to create the 
BoM for each of the nodes.  Since it requires multiple hops of radio 
for backhaul, in a meshy configuration, some poles need 6 
radios.  Not a lot of channel space... especially when you have to 
coordinate with the three to 8 other nodes you've got adjacency 
to.  (Okay, to do more than 3, one of the radios is a PtMP shared 
backhaul link.  Darned 36 dBi EIRP limit... the PtP end of the link 
needs lots of antenna gain when it's 15 miles away!)

The R52Hn does narrow channels too, doesn't it?  I'm not sure that 
the SR71-15 works too well in RouterOS.


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein
>Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:32 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?
>
>If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
>120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they have to be
>on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
>5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies plus
>two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
>
>   --
>   Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>   ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>   +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
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  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Robert West]

True.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I know.

 

It's a given.

 

Have a wasteful day.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:46 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

You suck.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:14 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I use the Active@ programs in our shop.  Have for years.  They charge $$ for
it though.  (But I don't recall every paying anything  Hmm...)  And
as Josh says, don't use the PC until you use something to recover.  You run
the risk of overwriting the files you want to recover.  The best case is to
remove the hard drive and slave it in another machine then run  whatever
recovery program you use.  

 

I do it pretty much every day.  No one does backups, including me.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:42 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I am in the most need right now, I have a separate partition that is
dedicated solely to backup purposes. I had about 20GB of folders and files
and I accidentally sent them to the Recycle Bin, but apparently the recycle
bin can't handle that many so it just deleted them all. What file recovery
program works best to restore folders with the files to the way it was
before this happened?

 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com

 

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Josh Luthman]

Excuse me?  Never had Old Milwaukee, I am not a very experienced drinker.
Even though there is a kegerator 25 feet away...

On Aug 4, 2010 11:41 PM, "Robert West"  wrote:

But NOT Old Milwaukee.  Josh has a jones for Old Milwaukee.We’ve had an
intervention but he still insists on the old Milwaukee.



Bob-







*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
Behalf Of *Josh Luthman


Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:57 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders





You owe me a beer :P

Glad it worked for you.  The date I found that was in 2003!
>
> On Aug 4,...




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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Robert West]

I agree.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

At 8/4/2010 04:03 PM, you wrote:


>Jerry Richardson
>Sent Mobile

Jerry, did the body of your message get lost?  I just got your .sig.
Thanks.

>On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:58 PM, "Fred Goldstein" 
>wrote:
>
> > At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
> >> It will not work.
> >>
> >> But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz 
> >> channels.
> >
> > With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
> > 10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and 
> > even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard 
> > band) would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.
> >
> > How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet 
> > is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel support.  
> > The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB sensitivity.  That 
> > gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a double-wide, and a 
> > bit more with the short guard interval.  If I could share 15 Mbps 
> > among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think everyone should be happy. 
> > And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.
> >
> >> Jerry Richardson
> >> Sent Mobile
> >>
> >> On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> >>> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they 
> >>> have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  
> >>> The
> >>> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access 
> >>> frequencies plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
> >>>
> >
> >  --
> >  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
> >  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
> >  +1 617 795 2701
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > ---
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  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 





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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Bandwidth Sources.

[Robert West]

I have at least 4 business class connections as well as the fiber but just
make sure you have written permission from their sales department or at
least acknowledgement that you are in the business of reselling the access.
Any salesperson will give you that, they just want the sale.  It gets you
around their TOS.

But keep in mind that it's not dedicated, it's already shared access so way
less customers per MB on it.  And your ping times suffer from the get go.


Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:17 PM
To: motor...@afmug.com
Cc: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Bandwidth Sources.

Man, I wish I had a hosting center close. I am trying to get an idea of how
many are actually using wholesale bandwidth compared to DSL/CABLE
connections. Some cable providers actually let you resale their business
class connections. My partner and I were discussing the pro's and con's of
using a Cable business class connection. Money wise, it's a no brainer. I
can get a 10 meg connection for around $100/mth and I am paying a little
over $1000/mth for 6 meg Metro-E at the moment. The problems I see is they
will only give you about 5 public IP's and what would happen if they get
blacklisted/blocked/etc... and how fast will outages be fixed.

I know I have seen posts from many WISPs on afmug and wispa lists that were
using DSL/Cable connections for their sources. I thought this survey might
give an idea of the ratio that are using them.

For the survey, just put Hosting Center in other or group it with the first
option.

Here are the results so far:

1. Who do you use as a backbone provider? By this, a means of transporting
your users data to a medium that eventually connects to the nationwide
backbone.

A national, regional, or local backbone provider that provides T1(DS1) or
NxT1(DS1), DS3 or subset, Metro-E, Fiber, etc.. such as AT&T, Qwest, Sprint,
etc... That provide you with at least a class C of public addresses or you
can use your own.
82.4%   28
Using a competitor's or non-competitor's service such as (business or
home) cable, DSL, FTTH connection, that was meant for a single user account,
and normally assigns less than 5 public IP's to you...(Ignoring usage
policies of your provider).
2.9%1
Other (please specify)
14.7%   5
1.  a local provider AND competitor's or non-competitor's service such
as
(business or home) cable, DSL, FTTH connection that is meant for
multi-residential use.
2.  Two separate Hosting Centers
3.  Local utility company that aggregates ATT Lightcore, Sprint and
UUNET
4.  we are our own provider with our own ip range
5.  Datacenter that has their own fiber where I get a /23


2. If you are using the second answer or other... cable, ftth, or dsl, or
other for backbone you are more than likely providing NAT to all or most of
your customers. What are your plans when your public IP's gets banned,
blacklisted, and CALEA request, etc...?

1.  Contract excludes banned IP's and IP's are forwarded for our
management
including CALEA
2.  The two hosting centers are two different companies and each has
3-10
first tier providers they 'blend' on BGP. We buy at around $12-$20 per Mbps.
We have our own ARIN Public IP's, but the providers handle BGP and we just
take two redundant GigE ethernets to their routers (we use VRRP for
redundancy from there).

Thanks for participating guys.

Scottie Arnett

> We have a selection that maybe should be on your list: Hosting Center.
>
> We buy bandwidth and rent rooftop space for PTP/PtMP from two separate 
> Hosting companies in two separate valleys. We've tied them into our 
> rings of backhauls for complete redundancy.
>
> Hosting Centers are great because they typically host outgoing 
> bandwidth and are sitting on lots of unused incoming bandwidth (which 
> they have on commit CIR). So we buy under their own rate because 
> essentially we are using bandwidth they aren't using and can't sell
anyways.
>
> And these guys are usually really easy to work with, have awesome 
> facilities for rack space cheap and have plenty of access to public IP 
> space on multiple providers in a blend for redundancy.
>
> They just give us a pair of redundant GigE copper hand-offs.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: motor...@afmug.com [mailto:motor...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scottie Arnett
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:03 AM
> To: motor...@afmug.com
> Cc: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [Motorola II] Bandwidth Sources.
>
> I have made a quick survey on surveymonkey that collects data about 
> your bandwidth sources. I will post the data collected in a week. It 
> basically addresses if your primary connection to the Internet 
> backbone is through a wholesale provider or if you are using a 
> connection such as business or cable class DSL or cable for 
> connection. All responses

Re: [WISPA] Ohio WISPS Get USDA Funding

[David Hannum]

Thanks Chris!

Dave Hannum
New Era Broadband, LLC


On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:50 PM, chris cooper wrote:

>
>
> Congratulations to Dave Hannum at New Era on his USDA award today.
> Southern Ohio Communications also pulled one down.  It's a good day for
> WISPs in Southern Ohio all around.  Nice job guys.
>
> Chris Cooper
> Intelliwave LLC
>
>
>
>
> 
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>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small Businesses

[Robert West]

I ignore the IRS.  I have a lawyer for all that.  Oh, and a bail
fund

I have a bonus card with the bail bondsman, I have 5 punches already so my
next bail is free!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of MDK
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small
Businesses

That came to the attention of the list several months ago.What's come 
out since then, is that the IRS itself hasn't the capacity to even deal with
the 1099's, nor have they the automated capacity to do what Congress 
intended they use them for. Nor has Congress provided the means of 
funding the changes necessary to do so.

The IRS is attempting to thin the number of 1099's by administrative relief,
by saying that all credit card and debit card transactions, for instance, 
are going to be exempt.However, that's not set in stone, because it is 
actually re-writing what Congress clearly intended in the bill.

I believe there's some Republican congresscritters who are seeking to repeal
this, specifically, but right now, I'm not in possession of that factually, 
I don't know the names.   This rule was imposed by "Obamacare", and was 
written into "health care reform".

There's a very sizeable number of states and other individuals, as well as
class action lawsuits (of which I am a member of one) who is suing Congress 
over a number of provisions in the bill.Overlooked by the writers, was 
the need to write severability into the bill, so if any portion or part or
segment or function of it is found illegal or unenforceable or
unconstitutional by the courts, the whole will be nullified.

So, while yeah, this looks like a big deal for some, it may, if the lawsuits
win, turn out to be nothing, and a lot of our headaches can or will be
dispatched in court.



++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

--
From: "Matt" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 7:16 AM
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small Businesses

> http://www.toolkit.com/news/newsDetail.aspx?nid=10-161Form1099
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Robert West]

True.  I went to all 10mhz, smooth as silk.  (As long as I paid respect to
the spectrum analyzer genie)


20mhz was issues.



---Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

It will not work.

But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"  
 wrote:

> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they have 
> to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies 
> plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
>
>  --
>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
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> ---
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Robert West]

I keep a 10mhz separation between the channels.  Lesson learned.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
>It will not work.
>
>But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.

With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and even 5
MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band) would be
reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.

How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet is not
very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel support.  The RM5 spec
sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full
20 Mbps channel, 162 in a double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard
interval.  If I could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I
think everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.

>Jerry Richardson
>Sent Mobile
>
>On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
> wrote:
>
> > If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> > 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they 
> > have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
> > 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access 
> > frequencies plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
> >

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 





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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Robert West]

A mess.  Just run Air View and it will answer your question.  As long as one
radio can see one of the other radios, it's messed up to no end.  I have
seen, however, some pretty nice but large shields that will isolate the
sectors but in the end, just change the freakin' channels, already!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they have to be
on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies plus
two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 





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Re: [WISPA] Ohio WISPS Get USDA Funding

[Robert West]

Very Good!  SOC, good work!!!

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of chris cooper
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Ohio WISPS Get USDA Funding



Congratulations to Dave Hannum at New Era on his USDA award today.
Southern Ohio Communications also pulled one down.  It's a good day for
WISPs in Southern Ohio all around.  Nice job guys.

Chris Cooper
Intelliwave LLC





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Re: [WISPA] tree heights

[Robert West]

They do things other than  trees?

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] tree heights

One more thing NASA is awesome for.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Robert West 
wrote:
> The short answer is "Hell Yes!"
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of jp
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:11 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] tree heights
>
> Wonder if this is potentially useful/accurate enough for our industry:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/07/21/nasa.tree.map/index.html
>
>
> --
> /*
> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
>    KB1IOJ        |   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
>  http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Maine    http://www.midcoast.com/ 
> */
>
>
> --
> --
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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> --
> 
>
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>
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>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Robert West]

But NOT Old Milwaukee.  Josh has a jones for Old Milwaukee.We've had an
intervention but he still insists on the old Milwaukee.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

You owe me a beer :P

Glad it worked for you.  The date I found that was in 2003!

On Aug 4, 2010 11:40 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:

Josh,

You rock! That program is only 200kb and it recovered from what I could tell
all of my data. That little program did more than the others I've found that
I almost was going to pay form THANKS!

-Kurt Fankhauser


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
...

Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover de...

http://iam8up.com/iam8up/Restoration.exe

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
110...




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Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

[Robert West]

Liam is a REALLY good guy.  I've been taking time to mentor him and he
finally made his first backhaul link.  WAY TO GO LIAM!  Met him at his first
grain leg, climbed it a few times, instructed him.  Dropped a rope for him.
He's a quick learner and is really dedicated to getting this done RIGHT!
(And he calls me ten times a day!  Tis okay..)

 

Even made his own, Bob Designed "Big-Ass-Box" for his equipment install at
the leg.  

 

Any help you guys can give to Liam is appreciated by me as well.  He really
deserves it.  Even though he is AFRAID of HEIGHTS!

 

Sorry dude, I know you gave me 20 bucks not to tell anyone but it was just
too sweet.  J

 

I'll give the 20 bucks back next time we hook up, dude.  My bad.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Liam Cummings
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:18 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

This is the only reply I got on this.  I guess I have no takers. L

 

I can become a member today but I highly doubt the sample contracts will be
what I am looking for.

 

Thanks 

 

Liam

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

If you're a WISPA member, I think the wiki has a number of sample contracts.

Chuck

 

Sent from my iPad


On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Liam Cummings"
 wrote:

I'm looking for a good contract to use for exclusive use of someone's tower.
Anyone want to share what they have with us? Would save me tons of time. J

 

 

TX

 

Liam

 





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Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Robert West]

True.  And if you go with fiber, the IP's are free and are usually via the
Telecom.  If Time Warner Proper, 15 bucks.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:06 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

  Time Warner Telecom and Time Warner Cable are entirely different
companies.  No present relationship whatsoever.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/4/2010 1:23 AM, John Thomas wrote:
> Yes, I have heard of them. Time Warner (TW Telecom) is my upstream. We
aren't paying for IP addresses, but we only have a /27 of addresses with
them.
>
>
>
> Robert West  wrote:
>
>> ATT and Time Warner.  You may have heard of them.  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of John Thomas
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:28 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>
>> Robert, what upstream is charging $15 per month? If that is true, I 
>> have a portable /19 I am going to start renting..
>>
>> John
>>
>> Robert West  wrote:
>>
>>> Depends on if you have to pay for it.  Some upstreamproviders give 
>>> them for free, others not.  Some WISPS pay for their own block.  
>>> Either way, as with everything in  business, if I have to pay 15 
>>> bucks for a static you better believe that cost is gonna be passed 
>>> on.  That's a HUGE percentage of the cost of providing service to that
customer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:55 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>>
>>> I wasn't aware so many WISPs charge for static and/or public IPs.
>>>
>>> We have a /19 and /21 IPv4 allocation, and a /32 v6 allocation. All 
>>> customers get dynamic, possibly changing, public IPs. We charge for 
>>> a consistent public IP.
>>>
>>> NAT causes too many potential headaches for us to even bother with it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Blake Covarrubias
>>>
>>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
>>>
 True. Sounds like a bandwidth hog to me.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, "Mike"  wrote:

> Simple analysis might expose that customer to be one you'd rather 
> let
>> go.
> Or not.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On Behalf Of John Thomas
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>
> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, 
> I would find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a
month.
>
> John
>
> Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>
>> Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal"
>> according to the
>> customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month
>> *grins* and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign 
>> that static to
> the
>> customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves.
>>
>> -Kurt Fankhauser
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman"
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>
>>
>>> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
 I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would 
 let me
> do
 my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, 
 telnet
> and
 web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map 
 every port from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing 
 access to anyone else.

 In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable 
 UPnP if you are doing NAT.

 --
 Adam Kennedy
 Network Engineer
 Omnicity, Inc.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
 [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K.
 Schafer
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

 Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always 
 been told that it's a big security hole.

>

Re: [WISPA] Orthogon Gemini PoE Injector

[Robert West]

I think I found it.  It's here in a corn field in Ohio.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 7:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Orthogon Gemini PoE Injector

  I may have lost an Orthogon Gemini PoE Injector in yesterday's storms.
Are they the same as another PoE Injector or do I need to track down some
old stock somewhere?

-- 


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com






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Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Robert West]

Who is your upstream provider?  Any issues with them passing the V6?

Been thinking of making that jump but it seems to be a bastard scheme.  Gets
no respect.  Any major issues?

Bob-





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:24 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

We've been using v6 internally for about a year.

We've recently begun providing v6 to select customers; usually the ones with
/26 or more of v4 address space. At that size they're usually technically
competent, and thus ready to start migrating.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Aug 3, 2010, at 6:04 AM, Robert West wrote:

> How long have been using the v6?  
> 
> Bob-
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:55 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
> 
> I wasn't aware so many WISPs charge for static and/or public IPs.
> 
> We have a /19 and /21 IPv4 allocation, and a /32 v6 allocation. All 
> customers get dynamic, possibly changing, public IPs. We charge for a 
> consistent public IP.
> 
> NAT causes too many potential headaches for us to even bother with it.
> 
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
> 
> On Aug 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
> 
>> True. Sounds like a bandwidth hog to me.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, "Mike"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Simple analysis might expose that customer to be one you'd rather let
go.
>>> Or not.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of John Thomas
>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:27 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>> 
>>> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, I 
>>> would find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>>> 
 Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal" 
 according to
> the
>>> 
 customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month
> *grins*
 and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign that 
 static to
>>> the
 customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves.
 
 -Kurt Fankhauser
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: "Josh Luthman" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
 
 
> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM?
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy
> 
> wrote:
>> I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would 
>> let me
>>> do
>> my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, 
>> telnet
>>> and
>> web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map every 
>> port from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing access 
>> to anyone else.
>> 
>> In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable UPnP 
>> if
> you
>> are doing NAT.
>> 
>> --
>> Adam Kennedy
>> Network Engineer
>> Omnicity, Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>> 
>> Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always been 
>> told that it's a big security hole.
>> 
>> Thoughts on that?
>> marlon
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>> 
>> 
>> I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT.
>> 
>> When I was working with MT to fix the upnp issue with Xboxes. I 
>> have it marked as 4.6 with modifications (it was an unofficial 
>> 4.6 they gave me) so I would say 4.7 or higher should enable Xbox 
>> upnp. Even this requires a public IP on the Mikrotik to remove 
>> even nice strict (I think it's called open?).
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>> So does anyone here have any customers that use XBOX live and 
>>> bark to you about you NAT? Appare

Re: [WISPA] FW: About to switch

[Robert West]

Yeah.  So I raised hell and climbed the tree.  So finally, four days after
hobbling in  the new space, up shows 2 big ass trucks and TW installer boys.
(Not to be sexist.  Even TW warner knows that males are better at the
install.  Truth sucks, not my fault.)  Installer boys are actually customers
of ours bitching about the business class sales department.  Were jealous of
our new 3500 square foot digs.  (I'll be walking 15 miles a day just looking
for stuff)  

In the end, the bonus!

Gave me two residential amps for our 1000 feet or video drops, a 1000 foot
reel of video coax for the rest of my coax cabling and a big old box of
compression fittings.

Also a strange look and a question of "What the hell is all that coax on the
ground?"

All good.  Salesman boy is history, though.  Will no longer deal with him.

Bob-





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FW: About to switch

Oh the joy of working with big companies with no inner-correspondence. I
wish it were the same everywhere. Unfortunately, the big company I compete
against has most of their $hit together.

Scottie

> At least you still have your "since" of humor.
>
> I think you should be proud of yourself for knowing how to make it 
> work instead of just sitting there staring at it until someone else 
> fixes it.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Robert West 
> 
> wrote:
>> Oh, I just have to share my Time Warner drama.  Moved the office, 
>> gave them over 30 days’ notice to move our copper and fiber but still 
>> hasn’t happened.  Imagine crawling under your neighbors deck at 7 AM 
>> , dragging coax, just to connect into their coax drop with no 
>> permission to do so just to get your phones and office internet to 
>> work.
>>
>>
>>
>> The joy of being in business.
>>
>>
>>
>> At least I didn’t get shot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our salesman is “Quite Angry”.  Right.
>>
>>
>>
>> Read below.
>>
>>
>>
>> Who Else-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Morris, John [mailto:john.morr...@twcable.com]
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:37 PM
>> To: 'robert.w...@just-micro.com'
>> Subject: Re: About to switch
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know how you keep your since of humor after all this. I am 
>> quite angry that this happened to one of my customers, especially a 
>> good customer such as yourself. Try and have a good evening as well.
>> --
>> Sent using BlackBerry
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> From: Robert West 
>> To: Morris, John
>> Sent: Mon Aug 02 21:20:55 2010
>> Subject: RE: About to switch
>>
>> Yes but over a month just to get an installer to show up for no more 
>> than half an hour is crazy.  We went live today and if I hadn’t of 
>> taken care of it myself we would have been dead in the water.  With 
>> the economy the way it is, we can ‘t take the risk of even one day 
>> with no one answering the phones.
>>
>>
>>
>> Think about it.  Moving a business from a location where people are 
>> used to seeing you for over 7 years (We’ve been in business for 11 
>> years) and then no answer on the phone?  Makes it look like we closed 
>> for good and THAT’S the unacceptable thing.  A sense of urgency and 
>> continuity.  I really don’t see that with our vendors, not just you.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m already stressed.  When we moved to our old location 7 years ago 
>> it went smooth.  This could have been a mess for the average business 
>> owner and a sure ending of their business.  We’re just lucky that 
>> we’ll risk breaking the law to make sure all systems are functional.
>>
>>
>>
>> We shouldn’t have to dig out used coax and connectors, crawl under a 
>> neighbors deck and connect into their TW drop without asking at seven 
>> in the morning..
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s not a personal thing, it’s about survival.  That’s what has made 
>> us winners and I’ll continue being outside that box regardless of the
cost.
>> Certainly there is a process over at TW that gets the install done 
>> and over.  Just push that panic button and it’s all good.  To be 
>> contacted to “schedule” an install after 30 days is insulting.  We 
>> just aren’t that important.  That’s the way it looks.
>>
>>
>>
>> I really shouldn’t have to deal with it any more than I had to deal 
>> with moving the electric service.  Done and done.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ll be looking for boy tomorrow.  If he doesn’t show I’ll take the 
>> angle grinder to the lock on the TW box on the pole.   If arrested at 
>> least it will make good publicity!  (I’ll do it without a shirt, it 
>> makes for better
>> TV)  HA!
>>
>>
>>
>> Trust me, I’m crazy enough to call the cops myself so it makes a scene.
>> They are aware and in awe of my “I Don’t give a Shitness”.  Principal 
>> wins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still

Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Robert West]

I know.

 

It's a given.

 

Have a wasteful day.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:46 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

You suck.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:14 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I use the Active@ programs in our shop.  Have for years.  They charge $$ for
it though.  (But I don't recall every paying anything  Hmm...)  And
as Josh says, don't use the PC until you use something to recover.  You run
the risk of overwriting the files you want to recover.  The best case is to
remove the hard drive and slave it in another machine then run  whatever
recovery program you use.  

 

I do it pretty much every day.  No one does backups, including me.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:42 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

I am in the most need right now, I have a separate partition that is
dedicated solely to backup purposes. I had about 20GB of folders and files
and I accidentally sent them to the Recycle Bin, but apparently the recycle
bin can't handle that many so it just deleted them all. What file recovery
program works best to restore folders with the files to the way it was
before this happened?

 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com

 

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Jerry Richardson]

That's kinda what I was getting at. 4 5MHz channels seems ambitious. Using two 
seems like the least risky.

What's lightly loaded?  Unfortunately there is no way that I can think of to 
predict the point where it will break. Could happen at 10 users? Could scale to 
50 users.

- Jerry

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 7:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

At 8/4/2010 09:55 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:

Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 
boundary="_000_23DADC444ADCA14F88BD510F7E6BAA2B66B3628403VMBX116ihoste_"

For UBNT 900 I have serious doubts you could cram more than 3x 5MHz channels 
into the 30MHz and have it work without sync (behold the power of Canopy!).


Yeah, sync... that's what I'd like.  UBNT's AirMax has a degree of it, of 
course.  And MikroTik has put its own flavor of TDMA, nv2, into beta.  But they 
aren't as elaborate as Canopy or SkyPilot's SyncMesh.  You'd think that if the 
nodes could hear each other they might be able to synchronize to some extent...


5MHz channels and 5MHz spacing might look like:
1 = 905.0 (902.5-907.5)
2 = 915.0 (912.5-917.5)
3 = 925.0 (922.5-927.5)

There are apparently four standard 5 MHz channels on the 900 band (centered at 
907, 912, 917 and 922).  For the most part I'm finding it possible to use two 
120 degree sectors, with the rest of the circle not required (usually over 
water).  So I can keep 5 MHz channels 10 MHz apart.  Not ideal though.



I have doubts even that will scale well though. 900 is a different animal with 
big fat lobes off the backs and sides of the antennas.

I suppose that the worst case is that the sectors will trigger each others' 
CSMA, and thus the total throughput will be limited, but some signal should get 
through.  If the sectors are lightly loaded it won't be so bad. Sound right?



- Jerry

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:55 PM
To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

At 8/4/2010 05:14 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Well this is the formula we are using  Under perfect conditions...
with 802.11n    40mhz channel  = MCS 15 = 270/300mbps (air rate) connection.
20mhz channel = MCS 15 = 130mbs (air rate) 
connection
   10mhz channel = MCS 15 = 65mbs (air rate) connection.
 5mhz channel = MCS 15 = 32.5mbs (air rate) 
connection

802.11a/b/g radios are about 40%-50% efficient  in terms of  air-rate to tcp 
thruput conversion.
802.11n  radios are about 60-75% efficient ...
so5mhz channel with a MCS 15 air rate of 32.5mbs should translate into =  
19mbps to 24mbps tcp thruput
   in the field you want to leave yourself plenty of headroom and some 
margin a 5hz channel would be a bit on the margin for a 10x10mbs 
connection...

therefore using  10mhz channel should give you up to 30meg of bandwidth 
capability on each of the cpe's(i.e 15x15)

This all makes sense; I know that air rates don't translate diretcly to 
throughput.  The big question I'm still "rasslin'" with is channel spacing.  If 
I use 5 MHz channels (especially on 900), can the sectors be 5 MHz apart?  How 
about 10 MHz apart?  Likewise, can 10 MHz channels be 10 or 20 apart?  I'm 
drawing this big route map (large-format printers are wonderful) with each AP's 
link and access frequencies and trying to prevent conflicts... Thanks.


also:-  this chart is a good reference when trying to decipher MCS rates 

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009


Hope this helps.

Regards


Faisal Imtiaz


Snappy Internet &

Telecom
On 8/4/2010 3:54 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:



At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson

wrote:





It will not

work.





But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz

channels.









With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on

adjacent


10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and


even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard

band)


would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is

problematic.





How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet


is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel


support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB


sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162

in a


double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If

I


could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think


everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90

sensitivity.








Jerry

Richardson


Sent Mobile





On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R.

Goldstein"







wrote:








If I have a sit

Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/4/2010 09:55 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:

Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary="_000_23DADC444ADCA14F88BD510F7E6BAA2B66B3628403VMBX116ihoste_"

For UBNT 900 I have serious doubts you could cram more than 3x 5MHz 
channels into the 30MHz and have it work without sync (behold the 
power of Canopy!).




Yeah, sync... that's what I'd like.  UBNT's AirMax has a degree of 
it, of course.  And MikroTik has put its own flavor of TDMA, nv2, 
into beta.  But they aren't as elaborate as Canopy or SkyPilot's 
SyncMesh.  You'd think that if the nodes could hear each other they 
might be able to synchronize to some extent...



5MHz channels and 5MHz spacing might look like:
1 = 905.0 (902.5-907.5)
2 = 915.0 (912.5-917.5)
3 = 925.0 (922.5-927.5)


There are apparently four standard 5 MHz channels on the 900 band 
(centered at 907, 912, 917 and 922).  For the most part I'm finding 
it possible to use two 120 degree sectors, with the rest of the 
circle not required (usually over water).  So I can keep 5 MHz 
channels 10 MHz apart.  Not ideal though.




I have doubts even that will scale well though. 900 is a different 
animal with big fat lobes off the backs and sides of the antennas.


I suppose that the worst case is that the sectors will trigger each 
others' CSMA, and thus the total throughput will be limited, but some 
signal should get through.  If the sectors are lightly loaded it 
won't be so bad. Sound right?




- Jerry

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein

Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:55 PM
To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

At 8/4/2010 05:14 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Well this is the formula we are using  Under perfect conditions...
with 802.11n    40mhz channel  = MCS 15 = 270/300mbps (air rate) 
connection.
20mhz channel = MCS 15 = 130mbs (air 
rate) connection
   10mhz channel = MCS 15 = 65mbs (air 
rate) connection.
 5mhz channel = MCS 15 = 32.5mbs (air 
rate) connection


802.11a/b/g radios are about 40%-50% efficient  in terms 
of  air-rate to tcp thruput conversion.

802.11n  radios are about 60-75% efficient ...
so5mhz channel with a MCS 15 air rate of 32.5mbs should 
translate into =  19mbps to 24mbps tcp thruput
   in the field you want to leave yourself plenty of headroom and 
some margin a 5hz channel would be a bit on the margin for a 
10x10mbs connection...


therefore using  10mhz channel should give you up to 30meg of 
bandwidth capability on each of the cpe's(i.e 15x15)


This all makes sense; I know that air rates don't translate diretcly 
to throughput.  The big question I'm still "rasslin'" with is 
channel spacing.  If I use 5 MHz channels (especially on 900), can 
the sectors be 5 MHz apart?  How about 10 MHz apart?  Likewise, can 
10 MHz channels be 10 or 20 apart?  I'm drawing this big route map 
(large-format printers are wonderful) with each AP's link and access 
frequencies and trying to prevent conflicts... Thanks.



also:-  this chart is a good reference when trying to decipher MCS rates 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009


Hope this helps.

Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & TelecomOn 8/4/2010 3:54 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:



At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:



It will not work.

But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.




With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and
even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band)
would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.

How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet
is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel
support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB
sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a
double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If I
could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think
everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.




Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"

wrote:




If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?
The
5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies
plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.





  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein
"at" ionary.com
  ionary
Consulting
http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701




WISPA Wa

Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Jerry Richardson]

For UBNT 900 I have serious doubts you could cram more than 3x 5MHz channels 
into the 30MHz and have it work without sync (behold the power of Canopy!).

5MHz channels and 5MHz spacing might look like:
1 = 905.0 (902.5-907.5)
2 = 915.0 (912.5-917.5)
3 = 925.0 (922.5-927.5)

I have doubts even that will scale well though. 900 is a different animal with 
big fat lobes off the backs and sides of the antennas.

- Jerry

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:55 PM
To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

At 8/4/2010 05:14 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Well this is the formula we are using  Under perfect conditions...
with 802.11n    40mhz channel  = MCS 15 = 270/300mbps (air rate) connection.
20mhz channel = MCS 15 = 130mbs (air rate) 
connection
   10mhz channel = MCS 15 = 65mbs (air rate) connection.
 5mhz channel = MCS 15 = 32.5mbs (air rate) 
connection

802.11a/b/g radios are about 40%-50% efficient  in terms of  air-rate to tcp 
thruput conversion.
802.11n  radios are about 60-75% efficient ...
so5mhz channel with a MCS 15 air rate of 32.5mbs should translate into =  
19mbps to 24mbps tcp thruput
   in the field you want to leave yourself plenty of headroom and some 
margin a 5hz channel would be a bit on the margin for a 10x10mbs 
connection...

therefore using  10mhz channel should give you up to 30meg of bandwidth 
capability on each of the cpe's(i.e 15x15)

This all makes sense; I know that air rates don't translate diretcly to 
throughput.  The big question I'm still "rasslin'" with is channel spacing.  If 
I use 5 MHz channels (especially on 900), can the sectors be 5 MHz apart?  How 
about 10 MHz apart?  Likewise, can 10 MHz channels be 10 or 20 apart?  I'm 
drawing this big route map (large-format printers are wonderful) with each AP's 
link and access frequencies and trying to prevent conflicts... Thanks.


also:-  this chart is a good reference when trying to decipher MCS rates 

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009


Hope this helps.

Regards


Faisal Imtiaz

Snappy Internet & Telecom
On 8/4/2010 3:54 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:



At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:




It will not work.



But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.






With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent

10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and

even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band)

would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.



How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet

is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel

support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB

sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a

double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If I

could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think

everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.






Jerry Richardson

Sent Mobile



On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"



wrote:






If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into

120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they

have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?

The

5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies

plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.








  --

  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein

"at" ionary.com

  ionary

Consulting

http://www.ionary.com/

  +1 617 795 2701









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 ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701



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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Josh Luthman]

Awesome!  I will be there.  Headed there Friday.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM, KosiNet Wireless  wrote:
> Let me know if y'all are coming. We're going to be there, as we're providing
> bandwidth to the IZOD / Indycar guys for the weekend. Links from Mansfield
> down to the track.
>
> Pretty cool stuff
>
> -Gary-
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Josh Luthman
> To: WISPA General List
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders
>
> The ALMS, yes :)
>
> On Aug 4, 2010 5:38 PM, "KosiNet Wireless"  wrote:
>
> Mid Ohio - Indy Cars?
>
> -Gary-
>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Josh Luthman
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Sent: Wednesday, A...
>
>>>
>>> On Aug 4, 2010 12:11 PM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I sure do! Next t...
>
> 
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wa...
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>
> 
>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/4/2010 05:14 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Well this is the formula we are using  Under perfect conditions...
with 802.11n    40mhz channel  = MCS 15 = 270/300mbps (air rate) 
connection.
20mhz channel = MCS 15 = 130mbs (air 
rate) connection
   10mhz channel = MCS 15 = 65mbs (air 
rate) connection.
 5mhz channel = MCS 15 = 32.5mbs (air 
rate) connection


802.11a/b/g radios are about 40%-50% efficient  in terms 
of  air-rate to tcp thruput conversion.

802.11n  radios are about 60-75% efficient ...
so5mhz channel with a MCS 15 air rate of 32.5mbs should 
translate into =  19mbps to 24mbps tcp thruput
   in the field you want to leave yourself plenty of headroom and 
some margin a 5hz channel would be a bit on the margin for a 
10x10mbs connection...


therefore using  10mhz channel should give you up to 30meg of 
bandwidth capability on each of the cpe's(i.e 15x15)


This all makes sense; I know that air rates don't translate diretcly 
to throughput.  The big question I'm still "rasslin'" with is channel 
spacing.  If I use 5 MHz channels (especially on 900), can the 
sectors be 5 MHz apart?  How about 10 MHz apart?  Likewise, can 10 
MHz channels be 10 or 20 apart?  I'm drawing this big route map 
(large-format printers are wonderful) with each AP's link and access 
frequencies and trying to prevent conflicts... Thanks.



also:-  this chart is a good reference when trying to decipher MCS rates 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009


Hope this helps.

Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
On 8/4/2010 3:54 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:


At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:



It will not work.

But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.




With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and
even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band)
would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.

How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet
is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel
support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB
sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a
double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If I
could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think
everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.




Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
 wrote:




If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies
plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.





  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary 
Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/

  +1 617 795 2701




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 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701 


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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[KosiNet Wireless]

Let me know if y'all are coming. We're going to be there, as we're providing 
bandwidth to the IZOD / Indycar guys for the weekend. Links from Mansfield down 
to the track.

Pretty cool stuff

-Gary-
  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders


  The ALMS, yes :)


On Aug 4, 2010 5:38 PM, "KosiNet Wireless"  wrote:


Mid Ohio - Indy Cars?

-Gary-

  >
  > - Original Message -
  > From: Josh Luthman
  > To: WISPA General List
  > Sent: Wednesday, A...



  >>
  >> On Aug 4, 2010 12:11 PM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:
  >>
  >> I sure do! Next t...



--


  >
  >
  >
  > 

  > WISPA Wa...








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Re: [WISPA] tree heights

[Francois D. Menard]

Will try to get Roger Coudé on this as soon as it is known how to get it!

F.

--
fmen...@xittel.net

On 2010-08-03, at 22:37, "Robert West"  wrote:

> The short answer is "Hell Yes!"
> 
> Bob-
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of jp
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:11 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] tree heights
> 
> Wonder if this is potentially useful/accurate enough for our industry:
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/07/21/nasa.tree.map/index.html
> 
> 
> -- 
> /*
> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
>KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
> http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
> */
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Josh Luthman]

The ALMS, yes :)

On Aug 4, 2010 5:38 PM, "KosiNet Wireless"  wrote:

 Mid Ohio - Indy Cars?

-Gary-


>
> - Original Message -
> From: Josh Luthman
> To: WISPA General List
> Sent: Wednesday, A...


>>
>> On Aug 4, 2010 12:11 PM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:
>>
>> I sure do! Next t...

--


>
>
>
>

> WISPA Wa...





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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[KosiNet Wireless]

Mid Ohio - Indy Cars?

-Gary-
  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders


  Are you headed towards Lexington this weekend?


On Aug 4, 2010 12:11 PM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:


I sure do! Next time your in the area give me a call. Your not that far 
from me anyhow.



 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405




From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders



 

You owe me a beer :P

Glad it worked for you.  The date I found that was in 2003!
>
> On Aug 4,...






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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Bandwidth Sources.

[Scottie Arnett]

Man, I wish I had a hosting center close. I am trying to get an idea of
how many are actually using wholesale bandwidth compared to DSL/CABLE
connections. Some cable providers actually let you resale their business
class connections. My partner and I were discussing the pro's and con's of
using a Cable business class connection. Money wise, it's a no brainer. I
can get a 10 meg connection for around $100/mth and I am paying a little
over $1000/mth for 6 meg Metro-E at the moment. The problems I see is they
will only give you about 5 public IP's and what would happen if they get
blacklisted/blocked/etc... and how fast will outages be fixed.

I know I have seen posts from many WISPs on afmug and wispa lists that
were using DSL/Cable connections for their sources. I thought this survey
might give an idea of the ratio that are using them.

For the survey, just put Hosting Center in other or group it with the
first option.

Here are the results so far:

1. Who do you use as a backbone provider? By this, a means of transporting
your users data to a medium that eventually connects to the nationwide
backbone.

A national, regional, or local backbone provider that provides T1(DS1) or
NxT1(DS1), DS3 or subset, Metro-E, Fiber, etc.. such as AT&T, Qwest,
Sprint, etc... That provide you with at least a class C of public
addresses or you can use your own.
82.4%   28
Using a competitor's or non-competitor's service such as (business or
home) cable, DSL, FTTH connection, that was meant for a single user
account, and normally assigns less than 5 public IP's to you...(Ignoring
usage policies of your provider).
2.9%1
Other (please specify)
14.7%   5
1.  a local provider AND competitor's or non-competitor's service such as
(business or home) cable, DSL, FTTH connection that is meant for
multi-residential use.
2.  Two separate Hosting Centers
3.  Local utility company that aggregates ATT Lightcore, Sprint and UUNET
4.  we are our own provider with our own ip range
5.  Datacenter that has their own fiber where I get a /23


2. If you are using the second answer or other... cable, ftth, or dsl, or
other for backbone you are more than likely providing NAT to all or most
of your customers. What are your plans when your public IP's gets banned,
blacklisted, and CALEA request, etc...?

1.  Contract excludes banned IP's and IP's are forwarded for our management
including CALEA
2.  The two hosting centers are two different companies and each has 3-10
first tier providers they 'blend' on BGP. We buy at around $12-$20 per
Mbps. We have our own ARIN Public IP's, but the providers handle BGP and
we just take two redundant GigE ethernets to their routers (we use VRRP
for redundancy from there).

Thanks for participating guys.

Scottie Arnett

> We have a selection that maybe should be on your list: Hosting Center.
>
> We buy bandwidth and rent rooftop space for PTP/PtMP from two separate
> Hosting companies in two separate valleys. We've tied them into our
> rings of backhauls for complete redundancy.
>
> Hosting Centers are great because they typically host outgoing bandwidth
> and are sitting on lots of unused incoming bandwidth (which they have on
> commit CIR). So we buy under their own rate because essentially we are
> using bandwidth they aren't using and can't sell anyways.
>
> And these guys are usually really easy to work with, have awesome
> facilities for rack space cheap and have plenty of access to public IP
> space on multiple providers in a blend for redundancy.
>
> They just give us a pair of redundant GigE copper hand-offs.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: motor...@afmug.com [mailto:motor...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
> Scottie Arnett
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:03 AM
> To: motor...@afmug.com
> Cc: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [Motorola II] Bandwidth Sources.
>
> I have made a quick survey on surveymonkey that collects data about your
> bandwidth sources. I will post the data collected in a week. It
> basically
> addresses if your primary connection to the Internet backbone is through
> a
> wholesale provider or if you are using a connection such as business or
> cable class DSL or cable for connection. All responses appreciated.
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PPWSC6J
>
>
> -
> Official list of the Animal Farm Motorola Users Group - www.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> -
> Official list of the Animal Farm Motorola Users Group - www.afmug.com
>
>
>
>





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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Well this is the formula we are using  Under perfect conditions...
with 802.11n    40mhz channel  = MCS 15 = 270/300mbps (air rate) 
connection.
20mhz channel = MCS 15 = 130mbs (air rate) 
connection
   10mhz channel = MCS 15 = 65mbs (air rate) 
connection.
 5mhz channel = MCS 15 = 32.5mbs (air rate) 
connection


802.11a/b/g radios are about 40%-50% efficient  in terms of  air-rate to 
tcp thruput conversion.

802.11n  radios are about 60-75% efficient ...
so5mhz channel with a MCS 15 air rate of 32.5mbs should translate 
into =  19mbps to 24mbps tcp thruput
   in the field you want to leave yourself plenty of headroom and some 
margin a 5hz channel would be a bit on the margin for a 10x10mbs 
connection...


therefore using  10mhz channel should give you up to 30meg of bandwidth 
capability on each of the cpe's(i.e 15x15)


also:-  this chart is a good reference when trying to decipher MCS rates 



   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009


Hope this helps.

Regards

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet&  Telecom

On 8/4/2010 3:54 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
   

It will not work.

But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.
 

With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and
even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band)
would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.

How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet
is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel
support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB
sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a
double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If I
could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think
everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.

   

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
  wrote:

 

If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies
plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.

   

   --
   Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
   ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
   +1 617 795 2701




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Re: [WISPA] Roof Mounts

[Chuck Hogg]

Something like this?

http://tinyurl.com/235nzf8


Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Reed
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Roof Mounts

Try nelloinc.com


chris cooper wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find a non penetrating roof mount 
> sizeable enough to hold a couple of 24" drums?  It needs to be able to

> fit over the peak of a roof and have space on both sides for ballast.

> Cant seem to locate such a beast readily.
>
> Thanks
> Chris
> Intelliwave
>
>
>
> --
> --
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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--
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x2241
1-260-827-2241
Cell: 260-273-7239





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Re: [WISPA] Roof Mounts

[Scott Reed]

Try nelloinc.com


chris cooper wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find a non penetrating roof mount sizeable
> enough to hold a couple of 24" drums?  It needs to be able to fit over
> the peak of a roof and have space on both sides for ballast.  Cant seem
> to locate such a beast readily.
>
> Thanks
> Chris 
> Intelliwave
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>   

-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x2241
1-260-827-2241
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Steve Barnes]

Jerry you are a man of few words.
Invisible wisdom.

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

At 8/4/2010 04:03 PM, you wrote:


>Jerry Richardson
>Sent Mobile

Jerry, did the body of your message get lost?  I just got your .sig.  Thanks.

>On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:58 PM, "Fred Goldstein" 
>wrote:
>
> > At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
> >> It will not work.
> >>
> >> But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz 
> >> channels.
> >
> > With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
> > 10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and 
> > even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard 
> > band) would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.
> >
> > How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet 
> > is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel support.  
> > The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB sensitivity.  That 
> > gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a double-wide, and a 
> > bit more with the short guard interval.  If I could share 15 Mbps 
> > among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think everyone should be happy. 
> > And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.
> >
> >> Jerry Richardson
> >> Sent Mobile
> >>
> >> On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> >>> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they 
> >>> have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  
> >>> The
> >>> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access 
> >>> frequencies plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
> >>>
> >
> >  --
> >  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
> >  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
> >  +1 617 795 2701
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > ---
> > ---
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> >
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>
>---
>-
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>-
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  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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[WISPA] Controlling UBNT N gear TX rate on Legacy APs

[Justin Mann]

UBNT support for some reason has been unresponsive to me the past couple 
of days, so I was wondering if anyone here had experience with this.

When we connect UBNT 802.11N hardware to our legacy APs (all StarOS V3, 
G/A), we associate just fine and the connection performs without 
complaint. Normally, though, we always restrict the client's max TX 
rate, usually at 24Mbps. On the N hardware, you can't control the TX 
rate - you only get choices for MCS rates, and un-checking the 
"Automatic" box results in the CPE being unable to associate. As a 
result, the CPEs generally connect at 54 Meg. Many of our clients are 
long-range and don't really have the RSSI to maintain those rates. We've 
seen this with the Nanobridge M5 and Rocket M5 so far. Has anyone else 
found a workaround for this?

Note: The Legacy AP's transmit rate has no issues, it will settle on 24 
for that CPE, and the CPE itself reports that incoming rate correctly. 
It's just the CPE's transmit rate we can't control.




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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/4/2010 04:03 PM, you wrote:


>Jerry Richardson
>Sent Mobile

Jerry, did the body of your message get lost?  I just got your .sig.  Thanks.

>On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:58 PM, "Fred Goldstein" 
>wrote:
>
> > At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
> >> It will not work.
> >>
> >> But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz
> >> channels.
> >
> > With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
> > 10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and
> > even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band)
> > would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.
> >
> > How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet
> > is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel
> > support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB
> > sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a
> > double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If I
> > could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think
> > everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.
> >
> >> Jerry Richardson
> >> Sent Mobile
> >>
> >> On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> >>> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
> >>> have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
> >>> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access
> >>> frequencies
> >>> plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
> >>>
> >
> >  --
> >  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
> >  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
> >  +1 617 795 2701
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
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  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Jerry Richardson]

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:58 PM, "Fred Goldstein"   
wrote:

> At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
>> It will not work.
>>
>> But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz  
>> channels.
>
> With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent
> 10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and
> even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band)
> would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.
>
> How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet
> is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel
> support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB
> sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a
> double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If I
> could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think
> everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.
>
>> Jerry Richardson
>> Sent Mobile
>>
>> On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
>>> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
>>> have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
>>> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access  
>>> frequencies
>>> plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
>>>
>
>  --
>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/4/2010 03:37 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
>It will not work.
>
>But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.

With how much spacing between them?  If I could put them on adjacent 
10 MHz center frequencies, that would solve a lot of problems, and 
even 5 MHz channels with 10 MHz spacing (and thus a 5 MHz guard band) 
would be reasonable.  But 20 MHz spacing is problematic.

How much throughput can a quarter-channel get? The Rocket data sheet 
is not very complete; it doesn't even mention subchannel 
support.  The RM5 spec sheet says that MCS12 has -84 dB 
sensitivity.  That gets 78 Mbps in a full 20 Mbps channel, 162 in a 
double-wide, and a bit more with the short guard interval.  If I 
could share 15 Mbps among the sector users, in 5 MHz, I think 
everyone should be happy. And I'd expect -89 to -90 sensitivity.

>Jerry Richardson
>Sent Mobile
>
>On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"
> wrote:
>
> > If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> > 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
> > have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
> > 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies
> > plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
> >

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Jerry Richardson]

It will not work.

But you would be surprised how well these run at 5 or 10 MHz channels.

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:33 PM, "Fred R. Goldstein"  
 wrote:

> If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into
> 120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they
> have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The
> 5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies
> plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.
>
>  --
>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
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[WISPA] Multiple sectors, one frequency?

[Fred R. Goldstein]

If I have a site with, say, Ubiquiti Rocket M5 radios plugged into 
120 degree sector antennas, with Airmax (TDMA) turned on, do they 
have to be on separate frequencies, or can they coexist on one?  The 
5.8 GHz band is kind of crowded to be having three access frequencies 
plus two or more backhaul frequencies... thanks.

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost SmallBusinesses

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Let's hope it turns out to be nothing.  Would be burdensome.  For some more 
than others.

- Original Message - 
From: "MDK" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost 
SmallBusinesses


> That came to the attention of the list several months ago.What's come
> out since then, is that the IRS itself hasn't the capacity to even deal 
> with
> the 1099's, nor have they the automated capacity to do what Congress
> intended they use them for. Nor has Congress provided the means of
> funding the changes necessary to do so.
>
> The IRS is attempting to thin the number of 1099's by administrative 
> relief,
> by saying that all credit card and debit card transactions, for instance,
> are going to be exempt.However, that's not set in stone, because it is
> actually re-writing what Congress clearly intended in the bill.
>
> I believe there's some Republican congresscritters who are seeking to 
> repeal
> this, specifically, but right now, I'm not in possession of that 
> factually,
> I don't know the names.   This rule was imposed by "Obamacare", and was
> written into "health care reform".
>
> There's a very sizeable number of states and other individuals, as well as
> class action lawsuits (of which I am a member of one) who is suing 
> Congress
> over a number of provisions in the bill.Overlooked by the writers, was
> the need to write severability into the bill, so if any portion or part or
> segment or function of it is found illegal or unenforceable or
> unconstitutional by the courts, the whole will be nullified.
>
> So, while yeah, this looks like a big deal for some, it may, if the 
> lawsuits
> win, turn out to be nothing, and a lot of our headaches can or will be
> dispatched in court.
>
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
> --
> From: "Matt" 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 7:16 AM
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small 
> Businesses
>
>> http://www.toolkit.com/news/newsDetail.aspx?nid=10-161Form1099
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
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> 





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[WISPA] Ohio WISPS Get USDA Funding

[chris cooper]

Congratulations to Dave Hannum at New Era on his USDA award today.
Southern Ohio Communications also pulled one down.  It's a good day for
WISPs in Southern Ohio all around.  Nice job guys.

Chris Cooper
Intelliwave LLC




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Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Faisal Imtiaz]

ah you might want to double check that... AT&T has introduced some 
very aggressive 12 month promotional pricing recently..

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet&  Telecom

On 8/4/2010 2:06 PM, Adam Kennedy wrote:
> AT&T around here charges $75/mo for DSL with static IPs. Keep in mind that is 
> their basic static IP service for this area.
>
> --
> Adam Kennedy
> Network Engineer
> Omnicity, Inc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>
> I see 15/month for static public all the time here. I guess it depends
> on your market. But I also have comcast doing 50/5 here to.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 2, 2010, at 6:27 PM, John Thomas  wrote:
>
>
>> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, I would 
>> find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal" according to the
>>> customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month *grins*
>>> and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign that static to the
>>> customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves.
>>>
>>> -Kurt Fankhauser
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Josh Luthman"
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy
 wrote:
  
> I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would let me do
> my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, telnet and
> web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map every port
> from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing access to anyone
> else.
>
> In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable UPnP if you
> are doing NAT.
>
> --
> Adam Kennedy
> Network Engineer
> Omnicity, Inc.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>
> Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always been told
> that it's a big security hole.
>
> Thoughts on that?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>
>
> I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT.
>
> When I was working with MT to fix the upnp issue with Xboxes. I have
> it marked as 4.6 with modifications (it was an unofficial 4.6 they
> gave me) so I would say 4.7 or higher should enable Xbox upnp. Even
> this requires a public IP on the Mikrotik to remove even nice strict
> (I think it's called open?).
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
> wrote:
>
>> So does anyone here have any customers that use XBOX live and bark to
>> you
>> about you NAT? Apparently the XBOX live service is very picky about
>> being
>> behind any NAT device and its ability to make connections to other
>> servers.
>>  From what I gathered is that the LIVE service uses Universal Plug and
>> Play
>> (UPnP) to get around this but the question I have is. If your doing
>> masquerade on a Mikrotik Core Router should you enable UPnP on that
>> device?
>> Or should I just issue public IP's to the customer that games and let
>> them
>> worry about it? And if you have UPnP enabled on the core router and then
>> do
>> a double-NAT through the customers Linksys router with UPnP enable does
>> that
>> not work because of the double-NAT?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireles

Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Adam Kennedy]

AT&T around here charges $75/mo for DSL with static IPs. Keep in mind that is 
their basic static IP service for this area.

--
Adam Kennedy
Network Engineer
Omnicity, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Jeremie Chism
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

I see 15/month for static public all the time here. I guess it depends
on your market. But I also have comcast doing 50/5 here to.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 2, 2010, at 6:27 PM, John Thomas  wrote:

> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, I would 
> find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month.
>
> John
>
> Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>
>> Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal" according to the
>> customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month *grins*
>> and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign that static to the
>> customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves.
>>
>> -Kurt Fankhauser
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>
>>
>>> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy 
>>> wrote:
 I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would let me do
 my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, telnet and
 web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map every port
 from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing access to anyone
 else.

 In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable UPnP if you
 are doing NAT.

 --
 Adam Kennedy
 Network Engineer
 Omnicity, Inc.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

 Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always been told
 that it's a big security hole.

 Thoughts on that?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Josh Luthman" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP


 I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT.

 When I was working with MT to fix the upnp issue with Xboxes. I have
 it marked as 4.6 with modifications (it was an unofficial 4.6 they
 gave me) so I would say 4.7 or higher should enable Xbox upnp. Even
 this requires a public IP on the Mikrotik to remove even nice strict
 (I think it's called open?).

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
 wrote:
> So does anyone here have any customers that use XBOX live and bark to
> you
> about you NAT? Apparently the XBOX live service is very picky about
> being
> behind any NAT device and its ability to make connections to other
> servers.
> From what I gathered is that the LIVE service uses Universal Plug and
> Play
> (UPnP) to get around this but the question I have is. If your doing
> masquerade on a Mikrotik Core Router should you enable UPnP on that
> device?
> Or should I just issue public IP's to the customer that games and let
> them
> worry about it? And if you have UPnP enabled on the core router and then
> do
> a double-NAT through the customers Linksys router with UPnP enable does
> that
> not work because of the double-NAT?
>
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA

Re: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small Businesses

[MDK]

That came to the attention of the list several months ago.What's come 
out since then, is that the IRS itself hasn't the capacity to even deal with 
the 1099's, nor have they the automated capacity to do what Congress 
intended they use them for. Nor has Congress provided the means of 
funding the changes necessary to do so.

The IRS is attempting to thin the number of 1099's by administrative relief, 
by saying that all credit card and debit card transactions, for instance, 
are going to be exempt.However, that's not set in stone, because it is 
actually re-writing what Congress clearly intended in the bill.

I believe there's some Republican congresscritters who are seeking to repeal 
this, specifically, but right now, I'm not in possession of that factually, 
I don't know the names.   This rule was imposed by "Obamacare", and was 
written into "health care reform".

There's a very sizeable number of states and other individuals, as well as 
class action lawsuits (of which I am a member of one) who is suing Congress 
over a number of provisions in the bill.Overlooked by the writers, was 
the need to write severability into the bill, so if any portion or part or 
segment or function of it is found illegal or unenforceable or 
unconstitutional by the courts, the whole will be nullified.

So, while yeah, this looks like a big deal for some, it may, if the lawsuits 
win, turn out to be nothing, and a lot of our headaches can or will be 
dispatched in court.



++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

--
From: "Matt" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 7:16 AM
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small Businesses

> http://www.toolkit.com/news/newsDetail.aspx?nid=10-161Form1099
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] tree heights

[Josh Luthman]

One more thing NASA is awesome for.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Robert West  wrote:
> The short answer is "Hell Yes!"
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of jp
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:11 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] tree heights
>
> Wonder if this is potentially useful/accurate enough for our industry:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/07/21/nasa.tree.map/index.html
>
>
> --
> /*
> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
>    KB1IOJ        |   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
>  http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Maine    http://www.midcoast.com/
> */
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
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>
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>
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>



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[WISPA] Coronal Mass Ejection

[Mike]

04 AUG 2010 --> Fromhttp://www.spaceweather.com

"The second CME is still en route. NOAA forecasters estimate a 35% 
chance of major geomagnetic storms when the cloud arrives on August 
4th or 5th. High-latitude sky watchers should remain alert for auroras."

Friendly Regards,
 
Mike
 





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Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/4/2010 08:06 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>   Time Warner Telecom and Time Warner Cable are entirely different
>companies.  No present relationship whatsoever.

Even worse than that.  tw Telecom (small "tw"), Time Warner Cable, 
and Time Warner Inc. (CNN-Turner, Time magazine, etc.) are *three* 
different companies, now that TWC has been spun off.  I wonder if 
they'll be required to change their name at some point, as tw Telecom 
was.  Of course since tw Telecom got the "tw", the cable folks will 
have to go farther afield.  (I rather like their old "Sterling Cable" 
brand, but they probably don't.)

The "ITT" name is shared by various former subsidiaries of a 
now-split conglomerate.  (I think the residuary is Starwood Hotels, 
not one of the "ITT"-branded companies.)  "AT&T Wireless" was spun 
out of AT&T Corp. at one point, though with a bit of irony both were 
later acquired by Southwestern Bell, which took the ATT brand for 
itself.  I refer to them (now "AT&T Inc.") as "faux AT&T".  This 
could make deciphering deals with "AT&T" very confusing.


>-
>Mike Hammett
>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>On 8/4/2010 1:23 AM, John Thomas wrote:
> > Yes, I have heard of them. Time Warner (TW Telecom) is my 
> upstream. We aren't paying for IP addresses, but we only have a /27 
> of addresses with them.
> >

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Josh Luthman]

Are you headed towards Lexington this weekend?

On Aug 4, 2010 12:11 PM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:

 I sure do! Next time your in the area give me a call. Your not that far
from me anyhow.





Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405
 --

*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:57 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders





You owe me a beer :P

Glad it worked for you.  The date I found that was in 2003!
>
> On Aug 4,...




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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I sure do! Next time your in the area give me a call. Your not that far from
me anyhow.

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

 

You owe me a beer :P

Glad it worked for you.  The date I found that was in 2003!

On Aug 4, 2010 11:40 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:

Josh,

You rock! That program is only 200kb and it recovered from what I could tell
all of my data. That little program did more than the others I've found that
I almost was going to pay form THANKS!

-Kurt Fankhauser


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
...

Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover de...

http://iam8up.com/iam8up/Restoration.exe

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
110...




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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-...




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Re: [WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet...

[Fred Goldstein]

Brian said it well.

What is needed, and what has been lost over the past decade (at the 
instigation of the Bells, who pretty much took total control of the 
FCC in 2001), is a clear distinction between the role of "common 
carrier" and the role of the "value-added", "enhanced", or 
"information" service provider.  (Those latter three terms are 
historically different but generally cover the same thing.)


A common carrier's job is to carry the bits, no questions asked. 
That's what the Bells provide on dial-up calls, since they don't own 
the modem, and what they still provide on  DS1 and DS3 Special Access 
circuits, the last vestiges of common carriage in current rules.  Of 
course those are all priced very high.  "Special Access" got its name 
because it was meant to make up for the revenue loss of using leased 
lines for voice instead of dialing toll calls.  So rural WISPs are 
often stuck buying capacity at prices literally based on telephone 
toll call rates circa 1990.  A DS3 is treated as 672 toll calls!


An information service provider theoretically rides inside the 
payload of common (or private) carriage, and is not a carrier 
itself.  ISPs are thus content, not carriage.  So I see ISPs as 
today's form of the press, and thus should have the same freedom of 
the press as anyone else.


Ben Franklin founded the US post office as a way to distribute 
newspapers. (The early US was the most literate country in the world, 
at least in the north, and had a lot of newspapers.)  It was like 
common carriage; the PO didn't care about content, so long as you 
weren't cheating by trying to sneak a letter (which was very 
expensive before the 1830s) into a newspaper (no writing on the margins!).


If Kevin Martin had been in charge, then he would have privatized the 
system, selling the vestiges of the post office to UPS and FedEx, 
which would have merged with NewsCorp and Tribune Corp.  They would 
not have been required to carry competing newspapers, though they 
would have made high-priced private carriage deals with specialty 
publishers like Forbes and Reed-Elsevier.  And the "newspaper 
neutrality" movement would be demanding that the NewsCorp and Tribune 
newspapers print ALL letters to the editor, unedited, while the FNC 
would be promoting "fair and balanced" news.


Hence the position I've taken in various FCC filings (search ECFS for 
"Ionary") -- common carriage must be restored, and ISPs should be 
unregulated. In such a case, a misbehaving telco-captive ISP would be 
met with alternative ISPs on the same wire.


Usage-based pricing does, of course, discourage file service.  But 
consumers don't like it.  The vast majority of Americans would prefer 
an unmetered, loosely restricted service.  ISPs like SpeakEasy have 
sold higher-priced service to customers who wanted the right to run 
servers at home.  If there were common carriage (and I'm referring to 
bit-neutral, below-IP-layer "raw DSL", which was removed from most 
Special Access tariffs in 2006), then there would be a choice of ISP, 
no pressure on WISPs to support waste, and everyone BUT the Bells 
would be happy.  But the Bells seem to carry 51%+ of the vote these 
days.  "Network neutrality", which basically won't affect them 
anyway, is their anticompetitive trick.


At 8/4/2010 08:15 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

So just let the market pressures dictate this. A WISP can switch 
upstream providers if they are being treated unfairly. It may not be 
cheaper but they have that right. Upstream providers are in the 
business of selling bandwidth so it is unlikely that they will do 
this if you are truly purchasing bandwidth from a wholesale 
provider. The purchaser should carefully examine the terms of THEIR 
contract and if they are purchasing bandwidth from a competitor they 
should understand the risks of doing so. The free market system can 
and will work especially with all of the new competitive systems 
that are being built with stimulus money. The government does not 
need total control of everything with the idea that reasonable 
humans can't do it on their own without them.


As much as the whiny consumers can complain, I ask this question, if 
every ISP did not work on some sort of oversubscription model then 
why is it that a consumer won't go out and buy a 10 meg connection 
from an upstream provider and pay the prices all ISP's do? The 
business owner should have the right to regulate and manage the 
capacity of their network as they see fit. They know what it is 
capable of, what is profitable and what they feel they can handle. 
Having to deal with outside forces that have no idea what that 
individuals business model is working under is plain wrong. Will a 
business owner make mistakes in some of their practices, no doubt. 
Will they piss off consumers and lose customers if they do? 
Certainly. Last time I checked that is still a free market system 
and one of the beauties of being an American citizen. Government 
cannot

Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Josh Luthman]

You owe me a beer :P

Glad it worked for you.  The date I found that was in 2003!

On Aug 4, 2010 11:40 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:

Josh,

You rock! That program is only 200kb and it recovered from what I could tell
all of my data. That little program did more than the others I've found that
I almost was going to pay form THANKS!

-Kurt Fankhauser


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
...

Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover de...

http://iam8up.com/iam8up/Restoration.exe

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
110...



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
-...



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Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Josh,

You rock! That program is only 200kb and it recovered from what I could tell
all of my data. That little program did more than the others I've found that
I almost was going to pay form THANKS!

-Kurt Fankhauser

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT recover deleted folders

http://iam8up.com/iam8up/Restoration.exe

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Stop using that PC, do as little read/write as possible.  I'll look
> for the the utility I used way back when.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>> I am in the most need right now, I have a separate partition that is
>> dedicated solely to backup purposes. I had about 20GB of folders and
files
>> and I accidentally sent them to the Recycle Bin, but apparently the
recycle
>> bin can’t handle that many so it just deleted them all. What file
recovery
>> program works best to restore folders with the files to the way it was
>> before this happened?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>


>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>




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Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Glenn Kelley]

If anyone is interested in doing gameservers I can give you a really easy 
solution. 

the CPS gameserver has a large amount of games -and the cost...    FREE 

well - you do need a cpanel license - but for a VPS it costs only $15 from 
buycpanel.com 

Pretty easy setup  - if stuck ask me. 





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Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

[Liam Cummings]

I just joined... I am not sure if what they have on the wiki is going to
work for me. I would greatly appreciate it if you could share what you
have been using.


Thanks a ton!

Liam

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

If you can't find what you need on the Wiki, let me know and I will 
forward along tower contracts I've used in the past.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Liam Cummings wrote:
> K working on it now
> 
>  
> 
>

> 
> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

> *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 9:27 AM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower
> 
>  
> 
> I think there are multiple contracts on the Wiki, and I have some that

> are commercial contracts.  Join up!
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck Hogg
> 
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com 
> 
> http://www.shelbybb.com
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

> *On Behalf Of *Liam Cummings
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:18 AM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower
> 
>  
> 
> This is the only reply I got on this.  I guess I have no takers. L
> 
>  
> 
> I can become a member today but I highly doubt the sample contracts
will 
> be what I am looking for.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  
> 
> Liam
> 
>  
> 
>

> 
> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

> *On Behalf Of *Chuck Bartosch
> *Sent:* Monday, August 02, 2010 9:47 AM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower
> 
>  
> 
> If you're a WISPA member, I think the wiki has a number of sample
contracts.
> 
> Chuck
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Liam Cummings" 
>  > wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for a good contract to use for exclusive use of
> someone's tower. Anyone want to share what they have with us?
Would
> save me tons of time. J
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> TX
> 
>  
> 
> Liam
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
>

> 
> 
> 
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

[Patrick Shoemaker]

If you can't find what you need on the Wiki, let me know and I will 
forward along tower contracts I've used in the past.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Liam Cummings wrote:
> K working on it now
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 9:27 AM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower
> 
>  
> 
> I think there are multiple contracts on the Wiki, and I have some that 
> are commercial contracts.  Join up!
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck Hogg
> 
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com 
> 
> http://www.shelbybb.com
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> *On Behalf Of *Liam Cummings
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:18 AM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower
> 
>  
> 
> This is the only reply I got on this.  I guess I have no takers. L
> 
>  
> 
> I can become a member today but I highly doubt the sample contracts will 
> be what I am looking for.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  
> 
> Liam
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> *On Behalf Of *Chuck Bartosch
> *Sent:* Monday, August 02, 2010 9:47 AM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower
> 
>  
> 
> If you're a WISPA member, I think the wiki has a number of sample contracts.
> 
> Chuck
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Liam Cummings" 
>  > wrote:
> 
> I’m looking for a good contract to use for exclusive use of
> someone’s tower. Anyone want to share what they have with us? Would
> save me tons of time. J
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> TX
> 
>  
> 
> Liam
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

[Liam Cummings]

K working on it now

 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 9:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

I think there are multiple contracts on the Wiki, and I have some that
are commercial contracts.  Join up!

 

Regards,

Chuck Hogg

Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com

http://www.shelbybb.com

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Liam Cummings
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:18 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

This is the only reply I got on this.  I guess I have no takers. :-(

 

I can become a member today but I highly doubt the sample contracts will
be what I am looking for.

 

Thanks 

 

Liam

 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

If you're a WISPA member, I think the wiki has a number of sample
contracts.

Chuck

 

Sent from my iPad


On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Liam Cummings"
 wrote:

I'm looking for a good contract to use for exclusive use of
someone's tower. Anyone want to share what they have with us? Would save
me tons of time. :-)

 

 

TX

 

Liam

 






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[WISPA] OT: New Tax Recordkeeping Rules Will Cost Small Businesses

[Matt]

http://www.toolkit.com/news/newsDetail.aspx?nid=10-161Form1099



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Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

[Chuck Hogg]

I think there are multiple contracts on the Wiki, and I have some that
are commercial contracts.  Join up!

 

Regards,

Chuck Hogg

Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com

http://www.shelbybb.com

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Liam Cummings
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:18 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

This is the only reply I got on this.  I guess I have no takers. L

 

I can become a member today but I highly doubt the sample contracts will
be what I am looking for.

 

Thanks 

 

Liam

 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

If you're a WISPA member, I think the wiki has a number of sample
contracts.

Chuck

 

Sent from my iPad


On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Liam Cummings"
 wrote:

I'm looking for a good contract to use for exclusive use of
someone's tower. Anyone want to share what they have with us? Would save
me tons of time. J

 

 

TX

 

Liam

 






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Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

[Liam Cummings]

This is the only reply I got on this.  I guess I have no takers. :-(

 

I can become a member today but I highly doubt the sample contracts will
be what I am looking for.

 

Thanks 

 

Liam

 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] contract for use or tower

 

If you're a WISPA member, I think the wiki has a number of sample
contracts.

Chuck

 

Sent from my iPad


On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Liam Cummings"
 wrote:

I'm looking for a good contract to use for exclusive use of
someone's tower. Anyone want to share what they have with us? Would save
me tons of time. :-)

 

 

TX

 

Liam

 






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Re: [WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet...

[Brian Webster]

So just let the market pressures dictate this. A WISP can switch upstream
providers if they are being treated unfairly. It may not be cheaper but they
have that right. Upstream providers are in the business of selling bandwidth
so it is unlikely that they will do this if you are truly purchasing
bandwidth from a wholesale provider. The purchaser should carefully examine
the terms of THEIR contract and if they are purchasing bandwidth from a
competitor they should understand the risks of doing so. The free market
system can and will work especially with all of the new competitive systems
that are being built with stimulus money. The government does not need total
control of everything with the idea that reasonable humans can't do it on
their own without them.

 

As much as the whiny consumers can complain, I ask this question, if every
ISP did not work on some sort of oversubscription model then why is it that
a consumer won't go out and buy a 10 meg connection from an upstream
provider and pay the prices all ISP's do? The business owner should have the
right to regulate and manage the capacity of their network as they see fit.
They know what it is capable of, what is profitable and what they feel they
can handle. Having to deal with outside forces that have no idea what that
individuals business model is working under is plain wrong. Will a business
owner make mistakes in some of their practices, no doubt. Will they piss off
consumers and lose customers if they do? Certainly. Last time I checked that
is still a free market system and one of the beauties of being an American
citizen. Government cannot and should not try to keep these mistakes from
happening.

 

If government should be in the place of protecting and taking care of the
poor consumer then why don't they start having grocery store Nazi's dictate
what you buy and eat to protect you and your health and keep the health care
costs down. They know what is a better diet for you so they should dictate
what you are allowed to buy and eat...just saying that at some point the
government needs to stop thinking they are going to be everyone's savior.

 



Brian

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:10 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet...

 

Comments inline. 

Fred Goldstein wrote: 

At 8/3/2010 09:03 PM, Jack Unger wrote:
  

Fred,
 
Many WISPs throttle throughput according to the terms of the 
contracted service that each customer purchases. For example, if a 
WISP sells 1 Mb down and 512k up then they limit throughput to 
somewhere near those levels. Under those conditions, a customer can 
have a file or web server and it does not adversely affect the 
overall WISP network performance.


 
Sure it does.  Last week's discussion confirmed that the average ISP 
retail residential customer generates a load of about 50-100 kbps.  A 
lot higher when "using" it, near zero at other times.  But a file 
server can pump an Mbps or more all day and night.  The whole trick 
to low residential pricing is a high oversubscription ratio, and this 
is especially true with wireless.
  

Then put a monthly bandwidth cap (or caps) into your Terms of Service and
price your service accordingly. 



 
  

This level of throughput management should come under the 
"reasonable network management" definition that service providers 
are allowed to perform. This throttling is also 
application-independent so no selective throttling by application is 
needed. Finally, the throttling is implemented in routing tables 
full time and once programmed, it requires no human interaction.


 
"Reasonable" is a "rule of man", not "rule of law" 
construct.  Blocking the pirate CDN was not considered "reasonable" 
when it was not done by an ILEC.  I would rather allow ISPs to do as 
they please, at risk of displeasing their customers, rather than 
follow rules designed to please a cheapskate pR0n distributor.  And 
banning servers is a good way to keep the average load and thus the 
cost and price down.
  

With no rules, what are you going to do when your upstream provider decides
to block or throttle your network for whatever the reason? They are after
all just "doing what they please". Without some kind of network neutrality
protection, there's no law against blocking you, right?



 
 
  

Fred Goldstein wrote:


At 8/3/2010 06:24 PM, Jack Unger wrote:
  

Why would customers installing file servers cause you a problem if 
you limited their throughput to the Terms and Conditions of their 
contract where you would specify the amount of bandwidth that you 
were supplying them and limiting them to?


You could limit throughput "neutrally", provided that it limited 
upstream file service and interactive applications like gaming and 
telephony equally.  That's basically what Comcast consented to 
do.  However, those applicati

Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Mike Hammett]

  Time Warner Telecom and Time Warner Cable are entirely different 
companies.  No present relationship whatsoever.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/4/2010 1:23 AM, John Thomas wrote:
> Yes, I have heard of them. Time Warner (TW Telecom) is my upstream. We aren't 
> paying for IP addresses, but we only have a /27 of addresses with them.
>
>
>
> Robert West  wrote:
>
>> ATT and Time Warner.  You may have heard of them.  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of John Thomas
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:28 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>
>> Robert, what upstream is charging $15 per month? If that is true, I have a
>> portable /19 I am going to start renting..
>>
>> John
>>
>> Robert West  wrote:
>>
>>> Depends on if you have to pay for it.  Some upstreamproviders give them
>>> for free, others not.  Some WISPS pay for their own block.  Either way,
>>> as with everything in  business, if I have to pay 15 bucks for a static
>>> you better believe that cost is gonna be passed on.  That's a HUGE
>>> percentage of the cost of providing service to that customer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:55 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>>
>>> I wasn't aware so many WISPs charge for static and/or public IPs.
>>>
>>> We have a /19 and /21 IPv4 allocation, and a /32 v6 allocation. All
>>> customers get dynamic, possibly changing, public IPs. We charge for a
>>> consistent public IP.
>>>
>>> NAT causes too many potential headaches for us to even bother with it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Blake Covarrubias
>>>
>>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
>>>
 True. Sounds like a bandwidth hog to me.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, "Mike"  wrote:

> Simple analysis might expose that customer to be one you'd rather let
>> go.
> Or not.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On Behalf Of John Thomas
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>
> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, I
> would find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month.
>
> John
>
> Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>
>> Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal"
>> according to the
>> customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month
>> *grins* and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign
>> that static to
> the
>> customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves.
>>
>> -Kurt Fankhauser
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman"
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>
>>
>>> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy
>>> 
>>> wrote:
 I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would
 let me
> do
 my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH,
 telnet
> and
 web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map every
 port from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing access
 to anyone else.

 In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable UPnP
 if you are doing NAT.

 --
 Adam Kennedy
 Network Engineer
 Omnicity, Inc.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K.
 Schafer
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

 Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always been
 told that it's a big security hole.

 Thoughts on that?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Josh Luthman"
 To: "WISPA General List"
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP


 I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT.

 When I was working with MT to 

Re: [WISPA] net neutrality, there may be hope yet...

[Mike Hammett]

 Competition is what keeps your upstream from doing that.  Even if you 
have T-1 service in BFE, you can get a T-1 from any major IXC anywhere 
T-1s are available.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/3/2010 11:09 PM, Jack Unger wrote:

Comments inline.

Fred Goldstein wrote:

At 8/3/2010 09:03 PM, Jack Unger wrote:
   

Fred,

Many WISPs throttle throughput according to the terms of the
contracted service that each customer purchases. For example, if a
WISP sells 1 Mb down and 512k up then they limit throughput to
somewhere near those levels. Under those conditions, a customer can
have a file or web server and it does not adversely affect the
overall WISP network performance.
 


Sure it does.  Last week's discussion confirmed that the average ISP
retail residential customer generates a load of about 50-100 kbps.  A
lot higher when "using" it, near zero at other times.  But a file
server can pump an Mbps or more all day and night.  The whole trick
to low residential pricing is a high oversubscription ratio, and this
is especially true with wireless.
   
Then put a monthly bandwidth cap (or caps) into your Terms of Service 
and price your service accordingly.
   

This level of throughput management should come under the
"reasonable network management" definition that service providers
are allowed to perform. This throttling is also
application-independent so no selective throttling by application is
needed. Finally, the throttling is implemented in routing tables
full time and once programmed, it requires no human interaction.
 


"Reasonable" is a "rule of man", not "rule of law"
construct.  Blocking the pirate CDN was not considered "reasonable"
when it was not done by an ILEC.  I would rather allow ISPs to do as
they please, at risk of displeasing their customers, rather than
follow rules designed to please a cheapskate pR0n distributor.  And
banning servers is a good way to keep the average load and thus the
cost and price down.
   
With no rules, what are you going to do when your upstream provider 
decides to block or throttle your network for whatever the reason? 
They are after all just "doing what they please". Without some kind of 
network neutrality protection, there's no law against blocking you, right?
   

Fred Goldstein wrote:
 

At 8/3/2010 06:24 PM, Jack Unger wrote:
   

Why would customers installing file servers cause you a problem if
you limited their throughput to the Terms and Conditions of their
contract where you would specify the amount of bandwidth that you
were supplying them and limiting them to?
 

You could limit throughput "neutrally", provided that it limited
upstream file service and interactive applications like gaming and
telephony equally.  That's basically what Comcast consented to
do.  However, those applications usually require a person to be
there; content distribution runs 7x24.  Their ToS (I'm a customer)
prohibited file and web servers; the FCC found that unreasonable.

I do believe that if someone had complained about such activities
on Verizon's or ATT's part, the K-Mart FCC would have found it
perfectly desirable.

   

Fred Goldstein wrote:
 

At 8/3/2010 04:58 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
   

That's what I don't understand...  some people are so for Net
Neutrality, but every unhappy incumbent customer is a potential sale.
 

I've long opposed "network neutrality" rules on grounds that it
could put most WISPs out of business.  You'd be forced to live by
the same rules that the urban ILECs and CATVs do, even though
your cost of both last-mile capacity and middle mile (if rural)
is much higher. Thus you'd be required to allow customers to
install file servers at their subscriber locations, even though
it's much cheaper (overall) to have them at a fiber backbone
site.  Recall that Vuze, who made the big stink, is a pR0n
distributor using subscriber-site file servers and home-user
computers to undercut other CDNs on price.

I think Verizon actually favors such rules, on grounds that FiOS
is hurt less than most others, including cable, and they'd be
happy to see WISPs go away.  (When I see them opposing it, I
think of Bre'r Rabbit and the brier patch.)

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701

   


   --
   Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
   ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/
   +1 617 795 2701




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--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Traini

[WISPA] Orthogon Gemini PoE Injector

[Mike Hammett]

  I may have lost an Orthogon Gemini PoE Injector in yesterday's 
storms.  Are they the same as another PoE Injector or do I need to track 
down some old stock somewhere?

-- 


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





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Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP

[Blake Covarrubias]

We've been using v6 internally for about a year.

We've recently begun providing v6 to select customers; usually the ones with 
/26 or more of v4 address space. At that size they're usually technically 
competent, and thus ready to start migrating.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Aug 3, 2010, at 6:04 AM, Robert West wrote:

> How long have been using the v6?  
> 
> Bob-
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:55 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
> 
> I wasn't aware so many WISPs charge for static and/or public IPs.
> 
> We have a /19 and /21 IPv4 allocation, and a /32 v6 allocation. All
> customers get dynamic, possibly changing, public IPs. We charge for a
> consistent public IP.
> 
> NAT causes too many potential headaches for us to even bother with it.
> 
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
> 
> On Aug 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
> 
>> True. Sounds like a bandwidth hog to me.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, "Mike"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Simple analysis might expose that customer to be one you'd rather let go.
>>> Or not.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of John Thomas
>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:27 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>>> 
>>> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, I would
>>> find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>>> 
 Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal" according to
> the
>>> 
 customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month
> *grins*
 and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign that static to
>>> the
 customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves.
 
 -Kurt Fankhauser
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: "Josh Luthman" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
 
 
> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM?
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy
> 
> wrote:
>> I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would let me
>>> do
>> my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, telnet
>>> and
>> web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map every port
>> from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing access to anyone
>> else.
>> 
>> In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable UPnP if
> you
>> are doing NAT.
>> 
>> --
>> Adam Kennedy
>> Network Engineer
>> Omnicity, Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>> 
>> Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always been told
>> that it's a big security hole.
>> 
>> Thoughts on that?
>> marlon
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP
>> 
>> 
>> I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT.
>> 
>> When I was working with MT to fix the upnp issue with Xboxes. I have
>> it marked as 4.6 with modifications (it was an unofficial 4.6 they
>> gave me) so I would say 4.7 or higher should enable Xbox upnp. Even
>> this requires a public IP on the Mikrotik to remove even nice strict
>> (I think it's called open?).
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
>> wrote:
>>> So does anyone here have any customers that use XBOX live and bark to
>>> you
>>> about you NAT? Apparently the XBOX live service is very picky about
>>> being
>>> behind any NAT device and its ability to make connections to other
>>> servers.
>>> From what I gathered is that the LIVE service uses Universal Plug and
>>> Play
>>> (UPnP) to get around this but the question I have is. If your doing
>>> masquerade on a Mikrotik Core Router should you enable UPnP on that
>>> device?
>>> Or should I just issue public IP's to the customer that games 

[WISPA] Bandwidth Sources.

[Scottie Arnett]

I have made a quick survey on surveymonkey that collects data about your
bandwidth sources. I will post the data collected in a week. It basically
addresses if your primary connection to the Internet backbone is through a
wholesale provider or if you are using a connection such as business or
cable class DSL or cable for connection. All responses appreciated.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PPWSC6J




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