Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
Joe - like your work. Point 2 about interested amateurs is more a commentary about the state of web design in general, not specifically those working in govt departments ;-) More about the guidelines lacking teeth: Cabinet paper is here. http://www.e-government.govt.nz/docs/cabinet-paper-200402/chapter17.html Um, so the consequences for not complying are? And which clause in the cabinet decision takes precedence: 3.2 should be compliant by next complete redevelopment. 3.3 must comply by Jan 1, 2006. See 3.2 gives you an "out" with compliance. Unfortunately, the guidelines don't extend to all those corners of cyberspace that government can influence (eg SEO's, intranets, local government, educational resources), although all others are invited to use the guidelines. I also recall (vaguely, admittedly) a memo/press release from Trevor Mallard, which seemed a lot softer than the cabinet recommendation, but I can't find a reference to it anymore (can't recall if I saw it online or in paper). Don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of the e-government web guidelines, they just don't quite go far enough IMO. Also, some of hardcoded recommendations are already outdated, and so will present problems in the future (e.g. web safe color palette, use of keywords for font-sizing, exemption required for xhtml). Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-08 7:32 AM, Joseph Lindsay wrote: There is a lot of transparence around how govt agencies procure services and the local 16year old with a pirated copy of DW isn't likely to get the job. As for the guideline lacking teeth: All 'Public Sector' departments _have_ to comply (I don't recall the dates (1 June 05?). Other crown entities (I'm not sure if this applys to SOEs like TVNZ) are _strongly encouraged_ to comply. but i think every New Zealand web developer should read this document and try to at least adhere to some of these guidelines when building websites. Darren I agree totally. Of course there is no need for companies/individuals to comply with the govt-only parts (like 'must link to govt portal' etc.) Joe -- "You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
You might like to check out the report provided by the NZ State Services Commission (responsible for watch-doggin' the NZ e-Government Strategy). BEST PRACTICE EXAMPLES The report cites a number of best practice examples in the categories of: -Accessibility -Usability -Information delivery -e-Services delivery http://www.e-government.govt.nz/docs/ready-access-2004/index.html ON GUIDELINES The interesting thing about the NZ guidelines is that they are (roughly) 2-parts strategy to 1-part technical. They identify that successful web-based communication is driven by satisfying audience information or service needs, supporting common tasks, etc. Particularly with larger organisations this vision and strategy-led approach should in future yield some positive returns. Fingers-crossed that staff-turnover in the public sector doesn't increase ; ) POLITICS For a number of government organisations, web-communications are the subject of internal conflict. The formal 'ownership' of the website; e.g. what gets published, what stays on the homepage, etc. is often not influenced by the webmaster. The information services teams are often caught between communications and operational drivers and issues of (new) technical sophistication / code validation / standards etc. become an additional burden to juggle. IMPLEMENTING STANDARDS The first e-government site I worked on was circa 1996, version 3 browsers, little-to-no CSS, etc. Many government organisations were then using FrontPage (FP) as an authoring/publishing solution (as the transition from word-processing packages to FP was relatively painless). Not intending to excuse the responsibilities of web admins, but the transition to clean-code, structure and CSS is often a backward step for those used to visual-editors. In recent experience, i.e. pitching for e-Govt contracts there is an increased awareness of usability and accessibility standards, so expect the roll-out of a few more compliant sites in the next year or so. -- Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director MOTIVE | web.design.integrity http://www.motive.co.nz/ ph: +64 4 3 800 800 fx: +64 4 970 9693 mob: 021 369 693 93 Rintoul St, Newtown PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
As a govt webmaster I feel the need to jump to the defence of us here. However, I'll try to only state my observations, rather than defend. Disclaimer: These are my personal views, not necessarily those of my organisation or the NZ government. I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]... Me too Darren. I see this time and time again. I'm not sure if this is an education or resoursing issue or a bit of both. In my experience a lot of content comes from other media (i.e. print) and is just thrown up on the web as an afterthought (when reality is 100k people will look at the website and they'll only print 20k brochures) ..Anyway, our main site - www.mch.govt.nz - is quite close to getting there - though not yet perfect (what is?) it generally validates and does all that stuff. We're in the process of doing a major redesign which will be very much standards-driven from concept (the current version is me trying to fix the tag soup that was there before..). I think that there are a lot of sites that are _getting close_. As we are learning we are improving. Stuff I did 18 months ago, still used 1 table for layout because I couldn't get it to work on NN6,Opera and IE. The rest of the styling is done with CSS. I didn't know about WSG, browser hacks or any such tricks. When I built that site concensus among govt webmaster was that we had to make it look 'ok' in NN4 also. I recently asked this question again on a govt web mailgroup and in general the opinion is that we can leave NN4 behind as far as styling goes. The agency I work for now had their site rebuilt about 18 months ago also (before my time here). Bringing a site of 1000's of document built in DW (not using any sort of .dwt template or CMS) up to standards compliance is a slow process that I am working through. Like Jamie, we're close and battling through tag soup, but not there yet. 1. Teaching institutions have appalling web design curriculum that know nothing of Web Standards. (I know I've taught them in the past, and tutored this year). 2. Web design is an easy entry market place, so everyones next door neighbor and their dog with a pirated copy of DWMX is let loose or one or two sites for a few quid ...Another issue with the web guidelines is they lack teeth. Adherence to the guidelines is strongly encouraged, but ultimately optional. New sites must comply, and old sites should redesign, unless the cost is prohibitive, or there is some really, really good reason not to comply. I agree totally with your first point. their web design courses are not web design at all. they are lessons in flash/fireworks and if they're luck DW. Although on point 2: I don't think this is such an issue for government. ( although when I got my frrst fulltime web gig it was on the basis of my FrontPage skills). There is a lot of transparence around how govt agencies procure services and the local 16year old with a pirated copy of DW isn't likely to get the job. As for the guideline lacking teeth: All 'Public Sector' departments _have_ to comply (I don't recall the dates (1 June 05?). Other crown entities (I'm not sure if this applys to SOEs like TVNZ) are _strongly encouraged_ to comply. but i think every New Zealand web developer should read this document and try to at least adhere to some of these guidelines when building websites. Darren I agree totally. Of course there is no need for companies/individuals to comply with the govt-only parts (like 'must link to govt portal' etc.) Joe On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:02:09 +1300, Terrence Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > duh me. > > OK... I agree with you Mike =) > > Terrence Wood. > > russ - maxdesign wrote: > >>I agree with your thinking Russ... web standards are a means to an end > >>not the end itself. They represent a philosophy, framework or tool set. > > > > > > Jut to clarify, that email was sent by me on behalf of Mike Brown, who is > > experiencing email issues. Sorry for any confusion. > > Russ > -- > *** >Are you in the Wellington area and interested in web standards? >Wellington Web Standards Group inaugural meeting 9 Dec 2004. > >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event24.cfm for details > *** > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > -- If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants -- Sir Isaac Newton http://josephlindsay.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
duh me. OK... I agree with you Mike =) Terrence Wood. russ - maxdesign wrote: I agree with your thinking Russ... web standards are a means to an end not the end itself. They represent a philosophy, framework or tool set. Jut to clarify, that email was sent by me on behalf of Mike Brown, who is experiencing email issues. Sorry for any confusion. Russ -- *** Are you in the Wellington area and interested in web standards? Wellington Web Standards Group inaugural meeting 9 Dec 2004. See http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event24.cfm for details *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
> I agree with your thinking Russ... web standards are a means to an end > not the end itself. They represent a philosophy, framework or tool set. Jut to clarify, that email was sent by me on behalf of Mike Brown, who is experiencing email issues. Sorry for any confusion. Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
I agree with your thinking Russ... web standards are a means to an end not the end itself. They represent a philosophy, framework or tool set. So instead of talking about the business case for web standards, you (royal you) need to talk about the benefits of a design proposal as it applies to the goals of the customers you are talking with, and not neccessarily the way in which you are going to implement that design. cheers Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-07 6:58 PM, russ - maxdesign wrote: Yes, I think the web guidelines are good, and we look to incorporate them largely as a matter of course. But, and I've been thinking of writing something on this, I don't think they (or web standards in general) are a huge selling point. I'd even go so far as to say I don't think there's a huge business case for web standards. To me they're something you just do, as they're the right thing. -- "You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
- Email sent on behalf of Mike Brown - Wellington WSG organiser - ok, Darren firstly you need to move to Wellington rather than Australia. :) We have close to 60 people who've RSVP-ed for the first Wellington WSG meeting on Thursday. I think that's an amazing number of people, and suggests to me a real desire and need to embrace web standards. I don't have the figures to hand, but there's probably an equal split between "developers" and people from the "public sector". I think there's a big wave coming. > A few months back (maybe even a year) the NZ government released web > guidelines for all their websites.[3] Sure, this is meant to apply > only to government sites, but i think every New Zealand web developer > should read this document and try to at least adhere to some of these > guidelines when building websites. So far I've seen one NZ government > site[4] that bothers to adhere. (I'm sure their must be more, and I'd > love see them so I can feel a little better about being a web developer > in NZ.) Yes, I think the web guidelines are good, and we look to incorporate them largely as a matter of course. But, and I've been thinking of writing something on this, I don't think they (or web standards in general) are a huge selling point. I'd even go so far as to say I don't think there's a huge business case for web standards. To me they're something you just do, as they're the right thing. You do them because you're a good craftsperson and they are just part of making a good site. But at best they're only part of selling yourself to a client. And, as can be seen by so many sites, other factors - design, cost, politics to name a new - are more important. But you're absolutely on the right course to develop using web standards. From a purely commercial point of view, you're positioning yourself well. And, so everyone doesn't think NZ developers don't care about standards, here is a list of the top of my head of (more or less) standards-compliant sites we've developed over the past year. And I know others out there are doing sites like this also. Landonline http://www.landonline.govt.nz/ Growth and Innovation framework http://www.gif.med.govt.nz/ Buddle Findlay Lawyers http://www.buddlefindlay.com/public/index.aspx Reserve Bank of New Zealand http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/ Creative New Zealand http://www.creativenz.govt.nz/ Hui Taumata 2005 http://www.huitaumata.maori.nz/ Effective Governance http://governance.tpk.govt.nz/ Asia New Zealand foundation http://www.asianz.org.nz/ Disclaimer: We didn't design the "look and feel" of most of these sites. I'm also not putting them up as perfect examples! but more to show that people here are working towards good practice in web standards. Regards Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
whoops... meant to hit save as draft... forget the business case stuff, I was getting off-topic. Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-07 5:37 PM, Terrence Wood wrote: The business case for both providers and customers of implementing standards design is so strong that any other option seems foolhardy by comparison. Sometimes I explain web standards to customers, but often I just implement them. -- "You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
I'm glad to hear you are so passionate about web standards Darren. I think it's fair to say that NZ is a little behind in it's implementation of standards design, but it is improving. Without going into too much detail there are a few areas that affect this: 1. Teaching institutions have appalling web design curriculum that know nothing of Web Standards. (I know I've taught them in the past, and tutored this year). 2. Web design is an easy entry market place, so everyones next door neighbor and their dog with a pirated copy of DWMX is let loose or one or two sites for a few quid. 3. Many established designers (will) have to relearn how to make web sites work, and that cuts into the bottom line. But there is hope. The first NZ WSG meeting is happening this Thursday, and we have around 70 people who have expressed an interest in attending. This is a very encouraging result given Wellington's population of 350K. If you are in Wellington, then I hope to see you there. If you are somewhere else then perhaps you can start your own WSG meetings. So let's talk about the egovt web guidelines (egovt compliance) and a bit about the sites you cite. The web guidelines are pretty good IMO. There are some things that can be improved but overall it's a pretty thorough document that covers most aspects of creating standards based web sites for govt departments and agencies. The issue with it, as you allude to, is that it only extends to govt departments and their agencies. So SOE's (State Owned Enterprise), private businesses and everyone else do not need to bother with egovt compliance. Another issue with the web guidelines is they lack teeth. Adherence to the guidelines is strongly encouraged, but ultimately optional. New sites must comply, and old sites should redesign, unless the cost is prohibitive, or there is some really, really good reason not to comply. There is a memo circulating that encourages govt depts to make their sites egovt compliant by the start of 2006 so I expect there will be a rush on govt redesigns next year. So lets talk about the sites you cite: [1] TVNZ. Just horrible, and unfortunately it's a SOE which doesn't have to comply with standards. It's probably designed (and I use that term loosely) by the marketing department and the IT dept. A classic example of how bad design can damage your brand. [2] NZ HERALD. Agree. Probably has the front end hardcoded into the CMS. [4] The radionz site is a good one. A really good way to find egovt compliant sites in NZ is to google "accessibility accessible site:.nz" which should return sites which have accessibility statements and have been designed in the last couple of years. The business case for both providers and customers of implementing standards design is so strong that any other option seems foolhardy by comparison. Sometimes I explain web standards to customers, but often I just implement them. On 2004-12-07 4:19 PM, Darren Wood wrote: [1] http://tvnz.co.nz - Inaccessible, slow, Flash, non-standards, table based. [2] http://nzherald.co.nz - I'm speechless. This is trash and the reason i wrote this email. [3] http://www.e-government.govt.nz/web-guidelines/ - Brilliant! [4] http://www.radionz.co.nz/ - Probably one of the first to go standards based. ** -- "You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
Justin French wrote: If I were you, I'd stop "complaining" and get in there! you are 100% correct. Sorry for the white noise, people. (btw - I do feel better after that little rant...) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
Darren Wood wrote: I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]... A few months back (maybe even a year) the NZ government released web guidelines for all their websites.[3] I think it's about 2 years old now. I was on the working group in 2002 to review them and I got CSS 2 in, and the W3C DOM rather than proprietary. In comparison to most overseas guidelines I like that the nz guidelines are short and that it's broken into audiences. Techies can read chapter 6 to get the gist of it. I think XHTML should have been allowed -- the reasoning at the time (as I understand it) was that there's no difference to the users between HTML 4.01 and XHTML, that XSL can output either, so it's a pointless choice. At the time I agreed that there was no real difference, but I think the reason why it should be allowed is because when software chooses a web standard they'll tend to choose XHTML 1.0, not HTML 4.01. The timeline for most government agencies is, "all new or revised content produced for existing non-Guideline compliant websites after 1 April 2004 should comply with the Guidelines as closely as possible; existing websites should become compliant with Version 2.1 of the Guidelines on the next occasion of a complete website redevelopment occurring before 1 January 2006;" I was the lead dev on http://www.work.govt.nz/ which is compliant. I'm not too happy with the graphic design of http://e.govt.nz, it's 3 years old. I did the html, and the interface is ok I guess. Is there a list of urls that should comply with the guidelines? [1] http://tvnz.co.nz - Inaccessible, slow, Flash, non-standards, table based. The sad bit is that they used a fantastic framework called Apache Cocoon (which I used for worksite.govt.nz) and yet when they released it they had multiple root tags (some of which were divs) and it ended up as tagsoup. The code looks a little better now, but it doesn't look like they're really that into web standards. Anything's better than the old tv2 site though. They're getting better :) .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
Darren Wood wrote: I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]... A few months back (maybe even a year) the NZ government released web guidelines for all their websites.[3] I think it's about 2 years old now. I was on the working group in 2002 to review them and I got CSS 2 in, and the W3C DOM rather than proprietary. In comparison to most overseas guidelines I like that the nz guidelines are short and that it's broken into audiences. Techies can read chapter 6 to get the gist of it. I think XHTML should have been allowed -- the reasoning at the time (as I understand it) was that there's no difference to the users between HTML 4.01 and XHTML, that XSL can output either, so it's a pointless choice. At the time I agreed that there was no real difference, but I think the reason why it should be allowed is because when software chooses a web standard they'll tend to choose XHTML 1.0, not HTML 4.01. The timeline for most government agencies is, "all new or revised content produced for existing non-Guideline compliant websites after 1 April 2004 should comply with the Guidelines as closely as possible; existing websites should become compliant with Version 2.1 of the Guidelines on the next occasion of a complete website redevelopment occurring before 1 January 2006;" I was the lead dev on http://www.work.govt.nz/ which is compliant. I'm not too happy with the graphic design of http://e.govt.nz, it's 3 years old. I did the html, and the interface is ok I guess. Is there a list of urls that should comply with the guidelines? [1] http://tvnz.co.nz - Inaccessible, slow, Flash, non-standards, table based. The sad bit is that they used a fantastic framework called Apache Cocoon (which I used for worksite.govt.nz) and yet when they released it they had multiple root tags (some of which were divs) and it ended up as tagsoup. The code looks a little better now, but it doesn't look like they're really that into web standards. Anything's better than the old tv2 site though. They're getting better :) .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
On 07/12/2004, at 2:19 PM, Darren Wood wrote: I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]... I'm guessing there's an equal percentage of Australian sites who neglect standards. I don't think it's a NZ-specific issue, and nor do I think "us Aussies" are particularly standards compliant. Obviously us here on the list and many more are, but for every design studio that embraces standards, there are many more who do not. David Trewern Design (dtdesign.com.au) is a high profile Australian studio that builds great looking sites for high profile companies, but even their brand new sites are based on tables and a lack of standards, yet they're getting some of the biggest and highest paying projects in Australia. I just let them do their thing, and I'll do mine. Frankly, I don't want or need them to embrace standards -- it creates a point of difference between myself and them, and the longer they build non-compliant sites, the more legacy mark-up and bloat they leave behind (possibly for people like me to clean up a few years from now). What they do doesn't directly affect me in any way, so like I said, I'll just do my thing, and they can do theirs. (I'm sure their must be more, and I'd love see them so I can feel a little better about being a web developer in NZ.) Am i missing something? Am i over sensitive? Why don't you see this as a good thing? It sounds like you one of only a handful of developers that "get it"... that creates a point of difference amongst your competitors, and ultimately an advantage (you can build and maintain sites faster than they can). If I were you, I'd stop "complaining" and get in there! --- Justin French, Indent.com.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Application Development & Graphic Design ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
Hi Darren Just joined the list a couple of hours ago...Anyway, our main site - www.mch.govt.nz - is quite close to getting there - though not yet perfect (what is?) it generally validates and does all that stuff. We're in the process of doing a major redesign which will be very much standards-driven from concept (the current version is me trying to fix the tag soup that was there before..). I've also done some more complicated stuff on our nzhistory.net.nz site (also in desparate need of a revamp) including this mult-media monster: http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/parlt-hist/index.html . More recently, I did the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior site, which is also a .govt.nz one: http://www.nationalwarmemorial.govt.nz/unknown/index.html So don't despair too much, you are not alone! Also, while I think the Radio NZ one is ok, I think the Radio NZ International one is better: http://www.rnzi.com/index.php (though I'm not a great fan of columns that slide together with a narrowing window). Cheers Jamie Mackay Web Editor / Researcher Ministry for Culture and Heritage New Zealand -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Wood Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 4:19 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards?? This may be completely off topic, but I feel I should rant to you lot as you all share my views... I've noticed quite a few kiwis on this list, and that is *awesome*! It means more standards based design and development in our fair land...or so you'd think. I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]... A few months back (maybe even a year) the NZ government released web guidelines for all their websites.[3] Sure, this is meant to apply only to government sites, but i think every New Zealand web developer should read this document and try to at least adhere to some of these guidelines when building websites. So far I've seen one NZ government site[4] that bothers to adhere. (I'm sure their must be more, and I'd love see them so I can feel a little better about being a web developer in NZ.) Am i missing something? Am i over sensitive? Much love and respect, Darren http://dontcom.com ps - If I didn't love Aotearoa so much I'd move to Australia so i could work with people who actually care about web standards...(present kiwis excluded, of course) [1] http://tvnz.co.nz - Inaccessible, slow, Flash, non-standards, table based. [2] http://nzherald.co.nz - I'm speechless. This is trash and the reason i wrote this email. [3] http://www.e-government.govt.nz/web-guidelines/ - Brilliant! [4] http://www.radionz.co.nz/ - Probably one of the first to go standards based. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The information contained in this email message is intended only for the addressee and is not necessarily the official view or communication of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. If you have received this message in error, please email or telephone the sender immediately. ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
On 7 Dec 2004, at 2:19 PM, Darren Wood wrote: I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]... So, jump in with irresistable proposals for redevelopment, and plan on retiring early! N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] New Zealand Web Standards??
This may be completely off topic, but I feel I should rant to you lot as you all share my views... I've noticed quite a few kiwis on this list, and that is *awesome*! It means more standards based design and development in our fair land...or so you'd think. I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]... A few months back (maybe even a year) the NZ government released web guidelines for all their websites.[3] Sure, this is meant to apply only to government sites, but i think every New Zealand web developer should read this document and try to at least adhere to some of these guidelines when building websites. So far I've seen one NZ government site[4] that bothers to adhere. (I'm sure their must be more, and I'd love see them so I can feel a little better about being a web developer in NZ.) Am i missing something? Am i over sensitive? Much love and respect, Darren http://dontcom.com ps - If I didn't love Aotearoa so much I'd move to Australia so i could work with people who actually care about web standards...(present kiwis excluded, of course) [1] http://tvnz.co.nz - Inaccessible, slow, Flash, non-standards, table based. [2] http://nzherald.co.nz - I'm speechless. This is trash and the reason i wrote this email. [3] http://www.e-government.govt.nz/web-guidelines/ - Brilliant! [4] http://www.radionz.co.nz/ - Probably one of the first to go standards based. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
