Re: [XeTeX] FakeBold vs TikZ

[Tobias Schoel]

BTW: I'm using Linux and texlive 2013.

Am 16.06.2014 09:37, schrieb Marcin Woliński:

Dnia 2014-06-15, nie o godzinie 17:03 -0500, Herbert Schulz pisze:

I'm using TeX Live 2014 (from the pretest) on a Mac and don't see that black 
dot (unless it's awfully small).


This is good news, thanks.  On the other hand, it’s a pity there is no
more incentive to learn what is happening there. ;-) It has to be
something deep in the engine since the \savebox version also causes the
dot to appear.

Could anyone check on Linux TeXlive 2014?  Maybe it’s Linux specific…


Could it be something that has to do with your PDF Viewer?


Definitely not.


Best,
M.





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Re: [XeTeX] FakeBold vs TikZ

[Tobias Schoel]

I opened the resulting pdf in inkscape. Inkscape says, the dot is part 
of a group containing also the second text (test 2), but both are 
encapsulated in some other groups which also define some coordinate 
transformations.


So I guess, fakebold has some bug which produces an additional ascii dot 
somewhere.


bye

Toscho

Am 16.06.2014 09:37, schrieb Marcin Woliński:

Dnia 2014-06-15, nie o godzinie 17:03 -0500, Herbert Schulz pisze:

I'm using TeX Live 2014 (from the pretest) on a Mac and don't see that black 
dot (unless it's awfully small).


This is good news, thanks.  On the other hand, it’s a pity there is no
more incentive to learn what is happening there. ;-) It has to be
something deep in the engine since the \savebox version also causes the
dot to appear.

Could anyone check on Linux TeXlive 2014?  Maybe it’s Linux specific…


Could it be something that has to do with your PDF Viewer?


Definitely not.


Best,
M.





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Re: [XeTeX] XeLaTeX or LaTeXiT strange behavior

[Tobias Schoel]

If you only need the font for roman math characters, you can also use 
the mathspec-package which allows to use more fonts than unicode-math.


ciao

Toscho

Am 06.03.2014 12:41, schrieb Yves Gaudemer:

Thanks Herb for your suggestion and sorry for answering so late. I realise I 
should have been more precise in the description of my problem. I used to 
prepare my presentations at the university or at home, using iCloud to store 
them while working on them. Then I would do my Keynote presentations in class 
with an iPad mini or even an iPhone, for which Keynote is available. 
Unfortunately, the list of available fonts both in iOS AND Mac OSX is very 
limited and Chalboard SE seemed to be a « nice » handwriting font for me. I 
thus wanted to use it also for roman math characters, like variables or 
function names like cos or sin. That led me to use xelatex and after playing 
for a while and asking for advice to various people, I put together the 
preamble that seems clearly unorthodox to TeX specialists like you ou Axel 
Kielhorn. It is clear that I will never be able to use XITS Math or Asana Math 
on my Ipad or iPhone, if my presentations are in Keynote format. One solution 
would be to expo

rt them to pdf before sending them to the iOS devices. The other solution is to 
build my presentations on my iMac on which LaTeXiT accepts my preamble. I’ll 
probably stick to the latter.


Cheers, Yves



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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation around "ß"

[Tobias Schoel]

Then maybe, latex.ltx should be changed? Why is LaTeX fussing around in 
clearly engine-specific terrain? Or if it assumes TeX by default, it 
should provide a hook for other engines.


ciao

Toscho

Am 17.02.2014 15:05, schrieb Ulrike Fischer:

Am Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:46:17 + schrieb
lis...@tex-tipografia.com:


I did notify Javier Bezos, the maintainer of babel. He could change
hyphen.cfg. But I don't know if he did anything about it yet.



I'm investigating it, but I think the proper place is
xetex.ini, not hyphen.cfg.


xetlatex.ini can't do it: latex.ltx changes lccode/uccode directly
before reading hyphen.cfg:

\lccode`\^^[=`\^^[   % oe in OT1
\lccode`\- =`\-   % default hyphen char
\lccode 127=127   % alternate hyphen char
\lccode 23 =23% textcompwordmark in T1
\InputIfFileExists{hyphen.cfg}

There is no sensible hook for xelatex.ini.

The codes must be changed again either at the begin of hyphen.cfg or
at the begin of every pattern affected by the problem.






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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation around „ß“

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 27.01.2014 12:23, schrieb Jonathan Kew:

Its \uccode is debatable; it should probably also be 223, as ß is
normally treated as non-uppercaseable (or as uppercasing to "SS", which
can't be done via \uccode), but another option would be 0x1E9E, for the
(relatively recently-encoded) Unicode letter U+1E9E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER
SHARP S


If "SS" and "SZ" are not possible, then Capital Sharp S should be used. 
Lowercase Sharp S in All-Uppercase text always looks ridiculous. It 
seems, as if one cannot handle it correctly, which is strange nowadays.


ciao

Tobias


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Re: [XeTeX] texlive and xetex

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 14.01.2014 02:10, schrieb C. Scott Ananian:

On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 11:09 AM, François Patte
 wrote:

texlive from linux distributions are often obsolete and they don't
provide the tlmgr tool that allows you to update texlive when you wish
and not when the distro packagers have time to do it!


The latest debian and ubuntu contain texlive 2013.  You can't get
newer than than unless you have a time machine.
  --scott

I think you can by pulling the packages from the (development) 
repositories of the individual developers prior to them putting them 
into ctan.


ciao

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation around „ß“

[Tobias Schoel]

Dear Susan,

the Reformed Orthography was created during the 1980es and early 1990s 
in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. It was agreed upon during the 
"Wiener Orthographiekonferenz" in 1994 and presented to the politicians 
in all German speaking countries.


In Germany, the conference of the ministers for culture (including 
education) of the Länder (KMK) decided to accept and implement these new 
rules. The relevant ministries of the Länder did so afterwards. Due to 
the strange educational system in Germany, this is near-law status. That 
means, that in Germany the Reformed Orthography is compulsory _in 
schools only_. Many but not all other institutions, companies … accepted 
the Reformed Orthography as well without being forced to do. The 
constitutional court even protected the population from being forced to 
use the Reformed Orthography (with exception to the educational system).


In Austria, the relevant federal ministry implemented these rules and 
they apply to state institutions.


In Switzerland, the rules are compulsory in the educational system with 
exception to Kanton Bern.


In Luxembourg, they are compulsory in the educational system.
In South Tyrol, they are compulsory in the educational system and the 
state institutions.



Conclusion:

There is no LAW for the Reformed Orthography in Germany, except in the 
educational system.


The reform applies similarly to all German speaking countries.

Source: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtschreibreform_von_1996

ciao

Toscho

Am 13.01.2014 16:02, schrieb Susan Dittmar:

Dear Phil,

Philip Taylor schrieb:

My 1999 edition of the Collins German Dictionary (reformed orthography)
gives only "wusste", and gives it as the preterite of "wissen".

Does "wußte" exist in the Reformed Orthography, and if so,
with what meaning ?


it does not exist in the Reformed Orthography, that's right. But there's
strong resistance, as  you probably already noticed, against this
reform. So although Law decided for "wußte" to no longer be correct,
most people here (at least most of those who finished school before the
reform) still use, and insist on, the old form.

Btw, the reform only applies to Germany. To my knowledge it does not
apply to other German-speaking countries like Austria and Suisse.

Hope that helps lessen the confusion,

 Susan




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Re: [XeTeX] bidi & eso-pic are broken

[Tobias Schoel]

Wallpaper could be fixed to use tikz or a subset of tikz which offers to 
put things at absolute positions regarding the page and in the 
background. But maybe this is cannons at flies? (Or what is the correct 
saying in English?)


Am 10.06.2013 09:41, schrieb Fahad Al-Saidi:

Thanks Vafa for helping me. I would like to ask if there is any  way to
fix wallpaper package to work as expected in RTL document.

Regards,
Fahad


On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:50 AM, Vafa Khalighi mailto:vafa.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi

I have just done that. I only needed to change the horizontal
co-ordinate of \put command as previously mentioned and it works as
one would expect in RTL. I have changed the horizontal co-ordinate
of \put from 0pt to -(\paperwidth-\textwidth).

Vafa


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Fahad Al-Saidi
mailto:fahad.alsa...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Vafa for the clarification. If you can guide me what the
the recommended way to deal with pictures especially water mark
in RTL document since wallpaper does not work as expected. I am
working in a document for children that includes hundreds
pictures and I am using wallpaper & eso-pic packages heavily.
Now I can return to ubuntu 12.04' packages but I will face the
problem soon or later.


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Vafa Khalighi
mailto:vafa.k...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This has nothing to do with eso-pic-bidi file. In the
previous versions of bidi package, the behaviour of picture
environment was changes so that in RTL, still the reference
point was at the right (where the line starts in RTL) but
commands like \put behaved the same in LTR and RTL. i.e. if
you gave a positive horizontal coordinate to \put, t would
go to the right and if you gave a negative horizontal
coordinate, it would go to the left.

Later on, we found that it was more problematic rather than
being useful. Therefore I removed that modification to
picture environment.


Your example, will work fine in RTL, if you just change the
horizontal coordinate of \put in your document. On the other
hand, \RTL and \LTR are not commands; RTL and LTR are
environments.

Vafa





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Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX 0.9999.0 released

[Tobias Schoel]

What did Achilles wait for before taking over the turtle?

Am 14.03.2013 um 17:45 schrieb Barry MacKichan :

> Convergence.
> 
> On Mar 14, 2013, at 6:45 AM, Shriramana Sharma  wrote:
> 
>> So what are we waiting for for v 1.0?
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [XeTeX] unicode-math and underbrace bug

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

I tried as well (using article instead of book and system calls instead 
of filename calls) and using the intended (?) syntax of \underbrace. 
Still, all fonts show sporadic shifting, but on different pages. (See 
attached file)


ciao

Toscho

Am 07.02.2013 09:53, schrieb Daniel Greenhoe:

When I use the unicode-math package and the underbrace command, I get
sporadic errors in which the underbrace is (sporadically) shifted to
the right. This occurs for all the math fonts that I have tried which
include the following:
xits-math.otf
Asana-math.otf
latinmodernmath-regular.otf
texgyrepagellamath-regular.otf
texgyretermesmath-regular.otf

Here is a minimal example:

\documentclass[oneside]{book}
%
  \usepackage{unicode-math}% unicode math support
  \setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
  %\setmathfont{Asana-math.otf}
  %\setmathfont{latinmodernmath-regular.otf}
  %\setmathfont{texgyrepagellamath-regular.otf}
  %\setmathfont{texgyretermesmath-regular.otf}
%
\newcommand{\mcom}[2]{%
   \begin{array}[t]{c}%
 \underbrace{#1}\\%
 $#2$%
   \end{array}%
   }%
\begin{document}%
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
...
\end{document}

Attached is a tex file and two sample output pdf files.

Can anyone help me out?

Many thanks in advance,
Dan





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\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{fontspec}

 \usepackage{unicode-math}% unicode math support
%  \setmathfont{XITS Math} %pp.4,5,9,13,15,19,24,...
%  \setmathfont{Asana Math} %pp.4,50
%  \setmathfont{Latin Modern Math} %pp.3,6,12,13,...
%  \setmathfont{TG Pagella Math} %pp.5,7,8,13,19,20,...
%  \setmathfont{TG Termes Math} %pp.2,6,8,11,20,...
%  \setmathfont{XITS }
%
% \newcommand{\mcom}[2]{%
%   \begin{array}[t]{c}%
% \underbrace{#1}\\%
% $#2$%
%   \end{array}%
%   }%
\newcommand{\mcom}[2]{\underbrace{#1}_{\text{#2}}}
\begin{document}%
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2x=1}{a trig. identity} \]
\[ \mcom{\sin^2x+\cos^2

Re: [XeTeX] Your favourite QRCode generation method

[Tobias Schoel]

Shouldn't tikz be capable of doing this?

Am 30.01.2013 13:25, schrieb Jérôme Étévé:

Yep I checked that Juan, but it seems that to make it work in xelatex,
it's more a bother than my current solution.

Cheers,

J.

On 30 January 2013 11:19, Juan Acevedo  wrote:
e generation method to

include QRCodes in XeLaTeX?

Jerome,
You may want to check the package pst-barcode, though I wonder if it works 
under XeLaTeX.

Best,
Juan


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Re: [XeTeX] typesetting hyphen in xelatex

[Tobias Schoel]

Hello Sasi,

the document you should study is the documentation of the fontspec package.

http://mirrors.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/fontspec/fontspec.pdf

Otherwise, we can only help us, if you post a minimal example of file 
not working as you like.


ciao

Toscho

On 19.12.2012 18:49, Sasi Kumar wrote:

Thank you for both suggestions.So sorry. I did try both separately, but
still did not succeed. I couldn't get either the smart quotes or the
long dash. Am willing to study any document that is available online if
that would help. The reason I am insisting on this is that I am
preparing a document for publication and I would like it to look as
"authentic" as I can.

Thanks for the help and sorry for the trouble.

Best regards,
Sasi


On 19 December 2012 21:03, Rembrandt Wolpert mailto:r.f.wolp...@gmail.com>> wrote:

try

\defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text}

/rfw



On 12/19/12 4:15 PM, Sasi Kumar wrote:
 > Dear friends,
 >
 > When I enter two consecutive "minus" signs, it does not typeset
in the form
 > of a long dash as in latex. Instead, it appears as two small dashes
 > together. So, what should I enter to obtain a long dash? Perhaps,
the same
 > difference exists in the way three dashes are also typeset in
xelatex. If
 > it does, could someone please guide me on how to get the
corresponding
 > dashes in xelatex that one gets in plain latex? I have another
doubt too.
 > This is regarding what is usually called "smart quotes". You know
those
 > cute-looking quotes with a bulb at the bottom instead of the straight
 > dashes. I am not able to get them in xelatex, whereas they used
to appear
 > by default in latex when the appropriate quote symbols are used.
 >
 > Thanks in advance for any help.
 >
 > Regards,
 > Sasi
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
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--
松下問童子言師採藥去
只在此山中雲深不知處




--
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Free Software Foundation of India
Please see: http://swatantryam.blogspot.com/




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Re: [XeTeX] Import svg

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

can this be made into a package?

That'd be great!

Thanks

bye

Toscho

On 30.11.2012 11:01, Boris Kheyfets wrote:

Hello XeTeX users,

There's a solution to use svg in tex. Here's a minimial working (with
pdflatex) example:

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{color}
\usepackage{epstopdf}

\newcommand{\executeiffilenewer}[3]{%
  \ifnum\pdfstrcmp{\pdffilemoddate{#1}}%
  {\pdffilemoddate{#2}}>0%
  {\immediate\write18{#3}}\fi%
}

\newcommand{\includesvg}[1]{%
  \executeiffilenewer{#1.svg}{#1.pdf}%
  {inkscape -z -D --file=#1.svg %
  --export-pdf=#1.pdf --export-latex}%
  \input{#1.pdf_tex}%
}

\begin{document}

\begin{figure}
   \def\svgwidth{200pt}
   \includesvg{first7BrZns}% it is first7BrZns.svg!
\end{figure}

\end{document}

Compilation with:

|pdflatex -shell-escape tex-file|

(the full paper is here
)

But in xelatex:

|xelatex -shell-escape -8bit tex-file|

gives error:

|! Undefined control sequence.
\executeiffilenewer  #1#2#3->\ifnum  \pdfstrcmp
   {\pdffilemoddate  
{#1}}{\pdffil...
l.19\includesvg{svgfig}|

What is wrong? How do I make it working?

(I also posted the question at tex.se
).

--
Boris








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[XeTeX] Bug Reports / Improvement reports for TeX Gyre fonts

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

could you please tell me, where to deliver bug reports and improvement 
reports for the TeX Gyre fonts to? I have looked at the webpage and only 
found a contact form, which I wasn't allowed to send (server error).


Thanks

ciao

Toscho
--
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Europaschule Kairo
www.europaschulekairo.com


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Re: [XeTeX] Linux Libertine

[Tobias Schoel]

Tested your minimal example. Got no bold font for me.

Can you find all instances of Linux Libertine on your computer and 
rename them to .backup (or whatever) except for your preferred instance 
of the open type font.


Then rehash your tex-distribution / font-config, (Depends on distribution)
and recompile the document again?

ciao

Toscho

On 26.11.2012 17:32, Arash Zeini wrote:

Should have included a PDF for the ME, sorry!

On 26 November 2012 15:29, Arash Zeini  wrote:

OK, after this afternoon's update to TexLive the combining macron's
problem is solved. But I still get bold italics, if I use \textit{}.

Minimal example:

\documentclass[a4paper,10pt]{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont[Mapping=tex-text]{Linux Libertine O}
\begin{document}
A little test with some \textit{italics}.
\end{document}

Best wishes,
Arash

On 26 November 2012 14:03, Khaled Hosny  wrote:

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:57:28AM +, Arash Zeini wrote:

Hello,

For the past few weeks "Linux Libertine O" has not been working
properly with XeLaTeX (included as part of my Vanilla TeXLive 2012
installation on Debian). Some combining diacritics and few other
characters which were fine before have stopped working and show up as
empty boxes. If I invoke the font with "Linux Libertine O", italics
show up as bold italic. Invoking the font with "Linux Libertine"
solves that problem but then a number of other characters show up as
empty boxes. If I remember correctly, the issues started right after
the inclusion of the libertine-type1 package in CTAN and persist even
after the *-type1 packages have been removed from CTAN. I have tried
to get in touch with the developer of the OT family to no avail and
have searched the web and relevant forums without finding any
information. Has anyone else experienced similar problems?


This is propably similar to this TeX.SE issue (Type1 fonts being picked
instead of OpenType ones), check my answer there.
http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/84223/729

Regards,
  Khaled


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Re: [XeTeX] Linux Libertine

[Tobias Schoel]

On 26.11.2012 13:57, Arash Zeini wrote:

Hello,

For the past few weeks "Linux Libertine O" has not been working
properly with XeLaTeX (included as part of my Vanilla TeXLive 2012
installation on Debian). Some combining diacritics and few other
characters which were fine before have stopped working and show up as
empty boxes. If I invoke the font with "Linux Libertine O", italics
show up as bold italic. Invoking the font with "Linux Libertine"

That is a true type font, not an open type font.

solves that problem but then a number of other characters show up as
empty boxes. If I remember correctly, the issues started right after
the inclusion of the libertine-type1 package in CTAN and persist even
after the *-type1 packages have been removed from CTAN. I have tried
to get in touch with the developer of the OT family to no avail and
have searched the web and relevant forums without finding any
information. Has anyone else experienced similar problems?
Not with the open type libertine fonts. I'd guess for the type1-problem, 
so see Khaleds answer.




Best wishes,
Arash


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Re: [XeTeX] possible conflict between polyglossia and beamer

[Tobias Schoel]

Hello Damien,

indeed, polyglossia and beamer seem to interact in a nonintuitive way. 
But you can workaround it: If you define the fonttheme before loading 
polyglossia and defining languages, the font setting works.


\documentclass[10pt]{beamer}
\usefonttheme{serif}
\usepackage{polyglossia}
\setdefaultlanguage{polish}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{xltxtra}
\usepackage{hyperref}
%\setmainfont{Linux Libertine O}

\begin{document}
some text
\end{document}

ciao

Toscho



On 25.11.2012 17:50, damien.thiriet77 wrote:

Hello,


I have an issue with beamer and xelatex: it looks as if polyglossia is in 
conflict with the serif beamer theme rules.

If I set a document:
\documentclass[10pt]{beamer}
\usepackage{polyglossia}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{xltextra}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\usefonttheme{serif}

\begin{document}
some text
\end{document}

Everything works as it should, I have got a serif font. However, as soon as I 
enter polyglossia language for exemple \setdefaultlanguage{polish}, the 
\usefonttheme{serif} option is ignored. Defining \setmainfont won’t change 
anything (I tried with different font families, without any effect on my 
slides) but \setsansfont changes sans font families (I checked it switching to 
\usefonttheme{default}). Maybe beamer themes are linked to babel?

This is very frustrating: I have been spending my afternoon reading fontspec 
manual, and I cannot use this beautiful toy;-)

Damien Thiriet

Une messagerie gratuite, garantie à vie et des services en plus, ça vous tente ?
Je crée ma boîte mail www.laposte.net



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[XeTeX] Activating math script symbols by default

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi to all,

I'd like to use a unicode math font, e.g. Asana Math or TG Pagella Math, 
with the math script symbols (\mathscr) to be applied by default.


So \(ml\) should give script ml (\mscrm\mscrl).

I haven't found it in the documentation of either fontspec or unicode-math.

How can I do this?

Thanks

bye

Toscho
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Europaschule Kairo
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Re: [XeTeX] horizontal alignment

[Tobias Schoel]

\nopagebreak

Am 20.11.2012 um 17:42 schrieb Lucio Crusca :

> In data martedì 20 novembre 2012 14:05:48, Zdenek Wagner ha scritto:
>> I would go even further. Within minipage LaTeX does a lot of things
>> that are not explained in the user manual, it is necessary to dig into
>> the LaTeX source code. among others it handles footnotes so that they
>> appear inside the minipage. Do you really need all that? If it is done
>> for positioning and nothing else, I would rather used \vbox or \vtop
>> because their behaviur is pecisely described in The TeXbook.
> 
> I haven't had the time to try all other suggestions yet, but this one seems 
> to 
> me a very good point. I used to use minipages (around the three rows content) 
> because I wanted those 3 rows to be kept together in the same page or moved 
> to 
> the next page as a whole if they didn't fit the current page. Then I extended 
> the use of minipage to \classeentry because I hoped to obtain the same 
> alignment as \dogentrytrerighe that way, but that last minipage use is 
> nothing 
> I actually need, since it didn't solve the horizontal alignment problem.
> 
> Now, if you can tell me another way of keeping the three rows on the same 
> page, I'd be more than happy to drop minipages altogether. Maybe that will 
> fix 
> also the horizontal alignment problem as a side effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [XeTeX] horizontal alignment

[Tobias Schoel]

Hello,

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but what you want to do 
seems to me to structurally be a table, so you should also tex it that way:

\begin{tabular}{@{}l@{\hspace{5cm}}p{2cm}@{}l@{}}
Title1&&WORD 1\\
&&text in a minipage environment\\
&\multicolumn{2}{l@{}}{that spans exactly}\\
&\multicolumn{2}{l@{}}{three rows}\\
\end{tabular}

Bye

Toscho

On 19.11.2012 17:46, Lucio Crusca wrote:

Hello *,

I'm quite new here, I've been using LaTeX and XeTeX for a while but I'm
no expert. I use texlive 2011 for linux/i386. I'm trying to obtain
horizontal alignment of some words. Let's make an example (look at the
following with a monospaced font):

TITLE1 WORD1

text in a minipage environment

that spans exactly

three rows

TITLE2 WORD2

text in a minipage environment

that spans exactly

three rows

WORD3

text in a minipage environment

that spans exactly

three rows

and so on...

Please note that the xetex code is being automatically generated and for
this reason I need three distinct commands, one for the titles, one for
the horizontally aligned words and one for the horizontally aligned
minipages. In the xetex source below the three commands are:
\sessoentry, \classeentry and \dogentrytrerighe (sorry for the mixup of
italian and english word in the command names, but those are legacy
names). In those commands I'm using \makebox[0pt] to make WORD1 and
WORD2 alignment independent of the TITLEs on the left, but that does not
seem to completely work: WORD1 and WORD2 are a few millimeters off their
expected position.

I've tried \tabto, but it strangely makes the minipage slide up a bit
and overlap WORDx.

Any suggestion welcome, thanks in advance.

--- File halign.tex ---

\documentclass[10pt]{book}

\usepackage{fontspec}

\usepackage[italian]{babel}

\usepackage[twoside,dvips=false,pdftex=false,vtex=false,xetex=true]{geometry}

\newcommand{\sessoentry}[1]{\noindent\makebox[0pt][l]{\textbf{#1}}}

\newcommand{\classeentry}[1]{\noindent\makebox[0pt][l]{}\begin{minipage}{\textwidth}\hspace{4.0cm}\textbf{#1}\par\end{minipage}}

\newcommand{\dogentrytrerighe}[3]{\noindent\begin{minipage}{\textwidth}\hspace{4.0cm}#1\par#2\par#3\par\vspace{2mm}\end{minipage}}

\begin{document}

\sessoentry{MASCHI}

\classeentry{JUNIORES}

\dogentrytrerighe{1 - KIRIELEISON SUMMER SON}

{blu merle - L.O.I. 11/15... - nato il 10/08 - Tat. 33...}

{da Sunny... e da Kirie... All.re Giulia... - Propr. Coll...}

\dogentrytrerighe{2 - DIRIELEISON SUMMER SON}

{blu merle - L.O.I. 11/15... - nato il 10/08 - Tat. 33...}

{da Sunny... e da Kirie... All.re Giulia... - Propr. Coll...}

\sessoentry{FEMMINE}

\classeentry{GIOVANI}

\dogentrytrerighe{3 - WIRIELEISON SUMMER SON}

{blu merle - L.O.I. 11/15... - nato il 10/08 - Tat. 33...}

{da Sunny... e da Kirie... All.re Giulia... - Propr. Coll...}

\dogentrytrerighe{4 - RIRIELEISON SUMMER SON}

{blu merle - L.O.I. 11/15... - nato il 10/08 - Tat. 33...}

{da Sunny... e da Kirie... All.re Giulia... - Propr. Coll...}

\classeentry{CAMPIONI}

\dogentrytrerighe{5 - NIRIELEISON SUMMER SON}

{blu merle - L.O.I. 11/15... - nato il 10/08 - Tat. 33...}

{da Sunny... e da Kirie... All.re Giulia... - Propr. Coll...}

\dogentrytrerighe{6 - PIRIELEISON SUMMER SON}

{blu merle - L.O.I. 11/15... - nato il 10/08 - Tat. 33...}

{da Sunny... e da Kirie... All.re Giulia... - Propr. Coll...}

\end{document}

-- End of file halign.tex --

Lucio.





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Re: [XeTeX] On an ugly hack to mathbf only in the local style.

[Tobias Schoel]

I'm not quite sure, if I have understood the OP correctly. But if he 
wants just the first letter to be bold, than the following seems to 
works just ok:


\renewcommand{\vec}[1]{\mathbf #1}

As LaTeX only reads the next “thing” after a command as the argument, if 
not grouped by {}, then only the first letter of the argument is passed 
to \mathbf.


If more than one letter needs to be bold, than you can put that part 
into a command (but Ross' reply would be preferable in all cases):


So try this out:

\documentclass{minimal}
\renewcommand{\vec}[1]{\mathbf #1}
\newcommand{\hallo}{hallo}
\begin{document}
\[\vec{x_1} \qquad \vec{\hallo_1} \qquad \vec{x^1} \qquad \vec{\hallo^1}\]
\end{document}

ciao

Tobias


On 31.10.2012 01:16, Zdenek Wagner wrote:

2012/10/30 Michaël Cadilhac :

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Zdenek Wagner  wrote:

2012/10/30 Michaël Cadilhac :

Hi there folks,



How about the following solution? I am writing it directly to the mail
without testing, I hope I won't make any error.

\def\vec#1{\do@vec#1_\do@vec}
\def\do@vec#1_#2\do@vec{\ifcat$#2$\mathbf{#1}\else\vec@subscript#1_#2\vec@subscript\fi}
\def\vec@subscript#1_#2_\vec@subscript{\mathbf{#1}_{#2}}


Zdeněk,

Thanks for your input!  However, I also have vectors such as \vec{x^i_j} (or
\vec{x_j^i}), and your solution does not seem to have a simple extension to
those cases.  The original hack I had had the advantage that no syntactic
manipulation had to be made on the argument, avoiding for sure those
problems.  If we have to do this syntactically, I'll think about it some
more.


If the vector is always one letter with optional
subscripts/superscript, a simpler solution can work:

\def\vec#1{\do@vec#1\do@vec}
\def\do@vec#1#2\do@vec{\ifcat$#2$\mathbf{#1}\else\mathbf{#1}#2\fi}

I am not sure whether math atoms will be properly recognised if the
second macro is defined just as

\def\do@vec#1#2\do@vec{\mathbf{#1}\ifcat$#2$\else#2\fi}


Thanks again!

M.



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mull.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


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[XeTeX] Mixing two math fonts

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

is there a "nice and easy" way to mix two math fonts with unicode-math?

Let's take the following comparison with brand new TG Pagella Math and 
Asana Math:


\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont{TeX Gyre Pagella}
\setmathfont{TG Pagella Math}
\begin{document}
\[\int_a^B\left(\sum_0^1\sin(\pi\cdot 
x)-\frac{6^{7^8}}{\lim\limits_{\emptyset\to\infty}\langle\emptyset\rangle}\,\mathup{d}x\right)\in\BbbR\]

\setmathfont{Asana Math}
\[\int_a^B\left(\sum_0^1\sin(\pi\cdot 
x)-\frac{6^{7^8}}{\lim\limits_{\emptyset\to\infty}\langle\emptyset\rangle}\,\mathup{d}x\right)\in\BbbR\]

\end{document}

I'd like to take the big operators and delimiters from TG Pagella Math, 
but the letters, numbers, symbols (empty set, real numbers, infinity, 
element of) and probably most else from Asana Math.


@ tex-gyre-team, Apostolos: Could you maybe take each other's font as an 
"inspiration" for your own? ;-) For example the delimiters: The stroke 
width of TG seems more graybalanced, but Asanas delimiters are smoother 
at the junction of hook and extender.


Thank you very much. I know, that these are details of beauty, I'm 
asking for, and not necessities.


Toscho


mull.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


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Re: [XeTeX] Unicode Math and Evince 3.4.0 (poppler 0.18.4) problems

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

that seems to be exactly the bug, that I have noticed earlier and posted 
on this list under the Subject "Printer doesn't print formulas".


I have tried with several other printers and different fonts, but the 
result was always the same. It didn't occur to me, that evince could be 
the root.


I have tested the document (minus the biblatex parts) by printing it 
from evince and acroread and I can confirm: evince doesn't print it, 
acroread does.
What happens with other documents: evince prints until the first math 
formula and then stops.


A workaround is for me to pdf2ps and ps2pdf the document. After that, 
evince does print correctly.


bye

Toscho

On 12.10.2012 15:08, Chris Yocum wrote:

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to let everyone know that if you use evince 3.4.0 with
poppler 0.18.4 and the unicode math package (default settings) that
you will not be able to print because of poppler bug
(https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53925).  I have attached
a minimal example to this email but you will not see the problems with
evince until you try to print as it displays correctly but refuses to
print with the error "Internal Error: cairo context error: input
string not valid UTF-8".  You can find out before hand if you click
print then in the print dialog box when you hit print preview, you
will that the page with the math on it is blank.

I am not sure if this has been fixed but in next version of ubuntu
(which is due in a few days time).

All the best,
Chris





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Re: [XeTeX] Linux Biolinum Bold Italic

[Tobias Schoel]

That worked like charm.

Lower case f and a are good examples for the difference between slanted 
and italics, but that doesn't hurt my students much.


The only question is, whether regular italics should be true italics or 
slanted? (See attached minimal example)


Thanks.

On 08.10.2012 20:27, Peter Dyballa wrote:


Am 08.10.2012 um 17:38 schrieb Tobias Schoel:


My system font viewer (gnome-specimen) shows a Bold Italic variant of Linux 
Biolinum although there are no associated files.


Maybe you are seeing Linux Biolinum Slanted O Bold, 
/usr/local/texlive/2012/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/libertineotf/LinBiolinum_aBL.otf…
 (check for example lower-case f)

You could try to mix Biolinum O (regular) and Biolinum O Bold with Biolinum 
Slanted O and Biolinum Slanted O Bold…

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

The wise man said: "Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level 
and beat you with experience."




\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont[BoldItalicFont=Linux Biolinum Slanted O Bold,ItalicFont=Linux Biolinum Slanted O]{Linux Biolinum O}
% \setmainfont[BoldItalicFont=Linux Biolinum Slanted O Bold]{Linux Biolinum O}
\begin{document}
\textbf{auf \emph{auf}}

auf \emph{auf}
\end{document}

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[XeTeX] Linux Biolinum Bold Italic

[Tobias Schoel]

Hello to all,

I can't get a bold italic variant of Linux Biolinum to work with fontspec.

My system font viewer (gnome-specimen) shows a Bold Italic variant of 
Linux Biolinum although there are no associated files.


How can I get that variant into my xetex-document?

ciao

Tobias
--
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www.europaschulekairo.com


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Re: [XeTeX] babel

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

[snip]


Two possible smartfont techniques for such locale feature are:
- alternate french punctuation marks with larger sidebearings: this is
very unflexible for users (punctuation characters without additional
space or with different space width are troublesome) but of course
simplifies the typesetting engines’ troubles the most.
- contextual variant of the  character: the
typesetter or their engine has to enter a space at the correct place
that then gets replaced by a (narrower) variant; here I think the
engine’s troubles aren’t really diminuished a lot, but the users’ might
rise. What’s more, contextual lookups that involve  don’t work
with XeTeX, so this is not very lucky here too.
As far as I know, TeX's view of spaces is to not handle them as 
characters but as space without characters. So I don't understand, why 
French Spacing should change in any way between pdftex and xetex. Space 
without characters doesn't care for encoding nor fonts, because there is 
no character to be encoded or handled in any way by a font.




Unicode already provides for a bunch of different space characters. IMO,
type designers should provide their fonts with appropriate space
characters (eg. 6-per-em space or thin space) and the typesetter or
their engine should check for the presence of that character and use it.


Even if whitespace is left to the font, which is perfectly reasonable 
but not the TeX way, why should French Spacing be left to the font at all?


It's simply checking for a flag that says "I want French Spacing" and 
then including white space (in whatever form) at appropriate places. You 
can take appropriate white space from the font according to your liking 
(there are many in space codepoints in unicode) or do it yourself. At 
the most you can ask unicode to include a special "Space in front of 
some punctuation in French"-codepoint, but I doubt that would be 
successful nowadays.


BYe

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] XeLaTeX and SIunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

Hello,

thanks very much for that.

What does normalise mean with angstrom and ohm?

ciao

T

On 11.06.2012 22:57, Joseph Wright wrote:

Hello all,

Taking a look back over the code, I already have some auto-detection in
for picking up UTF-8 symbols when the correct engine is in use.

I've revised this a bit for the next release (v2.5d, on CTAN tomorrow),
so that all of the 'problematic' symbols are covered in what seems to be
the best way possible. Nothing happens unless appropriate support
(fontspec/unicode-math) is loaded. If it is, then you get the following
symbols:

  - Ångström   u+00c5 (u+212b normalises here)
  - Degree Celsius u+00b0 + "C" (u+2103 is a compatibility character)
  - Micro  u+00b5 (u+03bc is wrong)
  - Ohmu+03a9 (u+2126 normalises here)

  - Degree u+00b0
  - Arc minute u+2032 (requires unicode-math)
  - Arc second u+2033 (requires unicode-math)



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Re: [XeTeX] Printer doesn't print formulas

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,
On 30.05.2012 20:27, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Tobias Schoel
  wrote:

Hi,

since some days ago, my printer stopped printing documents with math
formulas correctly. He prints until the first formula, then stops and ejects
the paper.

The documents are all created with xelatex using TeX Gyre Pagella, Linux
Biolinum O and Asana Math.

I haven't updated anything lately except for siunitx, which isn't involved
in all of that documents.


The question: did you update printer drivers or OS?

Not conciously, which should mean, not at all, on my system.


It is almost impossible that it would stop working without updating
anything at all, neither TeX engines nor fonts nor printer drivers.
As I said, I updated siunitx via tlmgr. Could it be, that it updates 
other files as dependencies?


You didn't specify what operating system you are using.

Lubuntu 12.04 with texlive 2011 from tug.org.
 One very

ingenious example was Apple's update to OS X 10.6.8 when all
Type1-flavoured OpenType fonts failed to print on all Macs and the
whole system was broken. At that time printing from Cups helped.


This may sound like a printer bug, but lets look at the following minimal
example.

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{Asana Math}
\begin{document}
\[\int_1^2f(x)dx\]
\end{document}

The printed document will be empty.
Replacing Asana Math by XITS Math results in \int_1^2 being printed, the
rest not.


This only tells you that both OpenType fonts are broken. Do you get
the same problem with TeX Gyre Pagella Math
(http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/tex-gyre-math/opentype) or
Yes, the same problem. (BTW: I copied this font to either 
/usr/share/fonts/opentype or 
texlive2011/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public. fc-list named it TG 
Pagella Math but I couldn't load it via \setmathfont{TG Pagella Math}. 
Only copying to the directory and loading it by filename worked.)

Cambria Math (if you have access to that one)?

I don't.



Removing fontspec, unicode-math and \setmathfont alltogether results in the
whole formula being printed (in default font of course).


But then the old Type1 font is used.

Of course.


I would say that either OS is "broken" or there is some very very
subtle problem that isn't manifested on anyone else's machine. From
what I understood you had the same problem with LuaTeX and you didn't
yet report if other OpenType math fonts cause problems.

I hadn't tested it with lualatex. I did now and it has the same problems.


Mojca


Thanks for your help.

ciao

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Printer doesn't print formulas

[Tobias Schoel]

Btw: After pdf2ps, printing the .ps-file works fine.

On 28.05.2012 22:14, Tobias Schoel wrote:

Hi,

since some days ago, my printer stopped printing documents with math
formulas correctly. He prints until the first formula, then stops and
ejects the paper.

The documents are all created with xelatex using TeX Gyre Pagella, Linux
Biolinum O and Asana Math.

I haven't updated anything lately except for siunitx, which isn't
involved in all of that documents.

This may sound like a printer bug, but lets look at the following
minimal example.

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{Asana Math}
\begin{document}
\[\int_1^2f(x)dx\]
\end{document}

The printed document will be empty.
Replacing Asana Math by XITS Math results in \int_1^2 being printed, the
rest not.
Removing fontspec, unicode-math and \setmathfont alltogether results in
the whole formula being printed (in default font of course).

It could be a printer bug as well as an OS bug: The documents are
printed finely on another printer feeded by Windoof.

Where might the root of this evil lie?

bye

Toscho




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[XeTeX] Printer doesn't print formulas

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

since some days ago, my printer stopped printing documents with math 
formulas correctly. He prints until the first formula, then stops and 
ejects the paper.


The documents are all created with xelatex using TeX Gyre Pagella, Linux 
Biolinum O and Asana Math.


I haven't updated anything lately except for siunitx, which isn't 
involved in all of that documents.


This may sound like a printer bug, but lets look at the following 
minimal example.


\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{Asana Math}
\begin{document}
\[\int_1^2f(x)dx\]
\end{document}

The printed document will be empty.
Replacing Asana Math by XITS Math results in \int_1^2 being printed, the 
rest not.
Removing fontspec, unicode-math and \setmathfont alltogether results in 
the whole formula being printed (in default font of course).


It could be a printer bug as well as an OS bug: The documents are 
printed finely on another printer feeded by Windoof.


Where might the root of this evil lie?

bye

Toscho

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Europaschule Kairo
www.europaschulekairo.com


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Re: [XeTeX] XeLaTeX and SIunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

On 14.05.2012 21:46, Joseph Wright wrote:

On 14/05/2012 20:38, Tobias Schoel wrote:

If I understand you correctly, there are two ways, in which this
could/should be solved on package level:

1. siunitx gets an option / command whatever, which does approximately:
\ifxetex\input{other file which can include suitable unicode symbols}\fi

2. a new package "xesiunitx" is created, which does approximately:
\usepackage{siunitx}
\sisetup{definitions using suitable unicode symbols, depending on
package option}

or

\usepackage{siunitx}
\testiffonthassymbols
\sisetup{definitions using suitable unicode symbols}
\else
\sisetup{some other helpful definitions}
\fi


As I've tried to explain, there are simply too many possible
combinations to cover things for XeTeX and LuaTeX users without them
actually checking the settings they use. The best that I can do even
with pdfTeX is provide some sensible defaults, and even there there are
failure cases (for a start, any 'non-standard' font packages may well
fail to give good output).

My current approach is to be honest with XeTeX/LuaTeX users and say
'look, you are going to have to check that the font you've chosen to use
has the correct symbols available'. I am happy to consider changes, but
what I don't want to do is give the impression that it's possible to do
all of this automatically: that is not what I've found.
--
Joseph Wright
Maybe you missunderstood me. That shouldn't be a feature request to the 
siunitx-package. It was more of a general question.


But what you said seems to indicate to me, that it would be more 
sensible to create my own package "xesiunitx", which solves the problem 
for my situation. As I only use open fonts, there aren't so many 
possibilities, and even for arbitrary fonts, one might only check for 
the "best" solutions and else uses siunitx' fallbacks.





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Re: [XeTeX] XeLaTeX and SIunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

If I understand you correctly, there are two ways, in which this 
could/should be solved on package level:


1. siunitx gets an option / command whatever, which does approximately:
\ifxetex\input{other file which can include suitable unicode symbols}\fi

2. a new package "xesiunitx" is created, which does approximately:
\usepackage{siunitx}
\sisetup{definitions using suitable unicode symbols, depending on 
package option}


or

\usepackage{siunitx}
\testiffonthassymbols
\sisetup{definitions using suitable unicode symbols}
\else
\sisetup{some other helpful definitions}
\fi




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Re: [XeTeX] XeLaTeX and SIunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

On 11.05.2012 19:44, Bruno Le Floch wrote:

On 5/11/12, Joseph Wright  wrote:

On 11/05/2012 17:36, Tobias Schoel wrote:

Hi,

I have done a few tests with the problematic symbols in siunitx (namely
micro, ohm, angstrom, celsius, degree/arcsecond/arcminute) and different
math fonts. You'll find source and result attached. As I don't have
access to commercial fonts (which includes MS Fonts), I could only test
some of them. The results aren't overwhelming.

Is it possible and acceptable to include a package option or
sisetup-option which makes the suitable definitions? It shouldn't be
default, even when loading fontspec in xetex, but easily accessible.

Thanks

bye

Tobias


As the siunitx documents state, there are simply too many combinations
of font packages to hope to cover all of them 'out of the box' or indeed
in the documentation, especially as XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX users may be
loading /any/ system font. Furthermore, the package code has to work
with pdfTeX, so it cannot contain UTF-8 characters outside of the ASCII
range.

As such, I can only make general recommendations in the documentation on
what to do to print these symbols correctly when using UTF-8 engines.


I'm really no expert, but the siunitx package could include, e.g., µ
as 00b5.  This  would not make pdftex choke when appearing in the
false branch of an engine-dependent conditional.


Could unicode-math-symbols be used? Can one load a package only 
dependent on engine?

\ifxetex\usepackage{unicode-math-symbols}\fi
?


Regards,
Bruno



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Re: [XeTeX] enumerating quotations

[Tobias Schoel]

Ah just have found the missing piece: \unskip. So try:

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\newcounter{myquotecounter}
\renewcommand{\themyquotecounter}{(Quote \arabic{myquotecounter})}
\newenvironment{myquote}{\refstepcounter{myquotecounter}„\ignorespaces}{\unskip“~\themyquotecounter}
\begin{document}
Hallo
\begin{myquote}
Dumdideldei\label{eins}
\end{myquote}
This is some text

\begin{myquote}
Yesterday …\label{zwei}
\end{myquote}

And now come the citations:
The first quote was \ref{eins} and after that came \ref{zwei}.

\end{document}


On 03.04.2012 05:03, Jacobo Myerston wrote:

Ok. I think I should write my own macro containing quote and a label option on 
it. But I have never done that. Could you recommend a good tutorial?



On Apr 2, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Zdenek Wagner wrote:


2012/4/2 Jacobo Myerston:

Hi,

I'm writing a book in which I quote a significant number of ancient texts. I'm 
using the \quote environment for this as usual. Now, I would like to have a 
numbered label to refer back to these quotations along the book. So, I would 
like the \quote environment to behave somehow like \figure so that the quote is 
auto-numbered and labels located inside \quote get also an automatic number.

Does anybody how to do this?


I would design my own macros. First you have to define an environment
that will be used to display the quotations, i.e. in your document you
will write \begin{something} ... \end{something}. This is important
because it constitutes a group and the counter used for labeling must
be used inside a group. You also have to allocate a counter. When
entering the environment you have to increment the counter by
\refstepcounter. It is not sufficient to use \stepcounter, it only
increments the counter, but \refstepcounter also sets other internal
macros used by the \label-\ref-\pageref machinery. \label must appear
inside the environment but after \refstepcounter. You should also
define the way how tha couter value will be displayed. For instance,
the definitions may be:

\newcounter{something}
\newcommand*\thesomething{\arabic{something}}

If you need hierarchical numbering (starting from 1 in each chapter),
you have to define a few more macros.


I'm using memoir.


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Re: [XeTeX] enumerating quotations

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

the csquotes package has many possibilities concerning quotes. I haven't 
tried it with enumeration, but it looks possible.


Otherwise, you can try something like this

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\newcounter{myquotecounter}
\renewcommand{\themyquotecounter}{(Quote \arabic{myquotecounter})}
\newenvironment{myquote}{\refstepcounter{myquotecounter}„\ignorespaces}{“~\themyquotecounter}
\begin{document}
Hallo
\begin{myquote}
Dumdideldei\label{eins}
\end{myquote}
This is some text

\begin{myquote}
Yesterday …\label{zwei}
\end{myquote}

And now come the citations:
The first quote was \ref{eins} and after that came \ref{zwei}.

\end{document}

I haven't yet figured out, how to suppress the space between the 
quotation and the trailing “ without using % at the end of the quotations.


bye

Toscho

On 03.04.2012 05:03, Jacobo Myerston wrote:

Ok. I think I should write my own macro containing quote and a label option on 
it. But I have never done that. Could you recommend a good tutorial?



On Apr 2, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Zdenek Wagner wrote:


2012/4/2 Jacobo Myerston:

Hi,

I'm writing a book in which I quote a significant number of ancient texts. I'm 
using the \quote environment for this as usual. Now, I would like to have a 
numbered label to refer back to these quotations along the book. So, I would 
like the \quote environment to behave somehow like \figure so that the quote is 
auto-numbered and labels located inside \quote get also an automatic number.

Does anybody how to do this?


I would design my own macros. First you have to define an environment
that will be used to display the quotations, i.e. in your document you
will write \begin{something} ... \end{something}. This is important
because it constitutes a group and the counter used for labeling must
be used inside a group. You also have to allocate a counter. When
entering the environment you have to increment the counter by
\refstepcounter. It is not sufficient to use \stepcounter, it only
increments the counter, but \refstepcounter also sets other internal
macros used by the \label-\ref-\pageref machinery. \label must appear
inside the environment but after \refstepcounter. You should also
define the way how tha couter value will be displayed. For instance,
the definitions may be:

\newcounter{something}
\newcommand*\thesomething{\arabic{something}}

If you need hierarchical numbering (starting from 1 in each chapter),
you have to define a few more macros.


I'm using memoir.


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Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX, XeTeXpicfile, and transparency

[Tobias Schoel]

On 16.03.2012 18:41, Zdenek Wagner wrote:

 snip

There are two separate problems:

1. Prepare an image with transparency. You must use a format supporting it
Can probably be done with ImageMagick via console and thus should be 
available via \write18 (or that stuff). See: 
http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/masking/


2. Include the picture an a way preserving transparency. When doing
this you must ensure that you create a PDF with a minor version
supporting transparency. If the version does not support transparency,
then it is an expected behaviour that xdvipdfmx will remove it.
Remember that transparency is explicitely prohibited in PDF/X and
PDF/A. I do not know the first version of PDF supporting transparency
Default of xdvipdfmx is 1.4 but can be changed by -V.

snip



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Re: [XeTeX] List of ligatures in a font

[Tobias Schoel]

Could one test if ff and f\/f are equal with tex-primitives?

On 14.03.2012 19:24, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012, d fulano wrote:

how do I determine what are the "standard ligatures" in a font?It is not
obvious (especially for non-English languages), and they can also vary
in each font.  Basically what I want to do is this:I can very quicky


It will be tricky with OpenType fonts that have context-sensitive
ligatures, because there may be many different sequences of input glyphs
that activate a given output glyph, and the input sequences can be
described in the font file in terms of matching patterns rather than a
(potentially prohibitively long) explicit list of input sequences.  If you
think you can guess the input sequence by looking at the output glyph (as
will be possible in many cases for Latin script), then you could simply
list the output glyphs and not worry about reverse-engineering the tables
to find the inputs; but that won't be a good assumption in the case of,
for instance, jamo layout changes in Korean.  Stuff like arbitrary-length
fractions implemented by ligature-like substitution will give you a hard
time as well.



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[XeTeX] Polyglossias babelshorthands (was: mathspec and polyglossia)

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

this mail can be seen as a bug report, feature request or question for a 
workaround, depending on who it is asked to and how he sees it.


Polyglossias gloss-russian.ldf calls babelsh.def. The way I understand 
the documentation, babelshorthands are only implemented for German, 
Dutch and Catalan. So here documentation and implementation differ.


Polyglossia with babelshorthands is incompatible with mathspec, which is 
afaik the only possibility to work with arbitrary fonts in xetex math. 
That's why it's important as a user creating documents with mathematics 
to have full control over the activation of babelshorthands: If I need 
mathspec, I have to prevent babelshorthands. If I use unicode-math, then 
I might want babelshorthands.


So how can I prevent polyglossia (or thinking further ahead: any 
package) from loading babelshorthands?


In the minimal example in the referenced thread, commenting out the 
lines in gloss-russian.ldf, which load babelsh.def, worked, but I'm no 
tex-expert to tell, whether this was enough or might cause other 
problems in real examples.


Thanks

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] mathspec and polyglossia

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

polyglossia documentation states, that babel shorthands ("-shorthands) 
are only implemented for German, Dutch and Catalan. This is wrong or at 
least misleading as gloss-russian.ldf does indeed invoke 
babelshorthands. I'm neither tex-expert nor polyglossia expert, but 
lines 29 to 84 from gloss-russian.ldf damn look like babelshorthands to me:


\define@boolkey{russian}[russian@]{babelshorthands}[false]{}

\setkeys{russian}{spelling,numerals}

\ifsystem@babelshorthands
  \setkeys{russian}{babelshorthands=true}
\else
  \setkeys{russian}{babelshorthands=false}
\fi

\ifcsundef{initiate@active@char}{%
  \input{babelsh.def}%
  \initiate@active@char{"}%
}{}

\def\russian@shorthands{%
  \bbl@activate{"}%
  \def\language@group{russian}%
%  \declare@shorthand{russian}{"`}{„}%
%  \declare@shorthand{russian}{"'}{“}%
%  \declare@shorthand{russian}{"<}{«}%
%  \declare@shorthand{russian}{">}{»}%
  \declare@shorthand{russian}{""}{\hskip\z@skip}%
  \declare@shorthand{russian}{"~}{\textormath{\leavevmode\hbox{-}}{-}}%
  \declare@shorthand{russian}{"=}{\nobreak\-\hskip\z@skip}%

\declare@shorthand{russian}{"|}{\textormath{\nobreak\discretionary{-}{}{\kern.03em}\allowhyphens}{}}%
  \declare@shorthand{russian}{"-}{%
\def\russian@sh@tmp{%
  \if\russian@sh@next-\expandafter\russian@sh@emdash
  \else\expandafter\russian@sh@hyphen\fi
}%
\futurelet\russian@sh@next\russian@sh@tmp}%
  \def\russian@sh@hyphen{%
\nobreak\-\bbl@allowhyphens}%
  \def\russian@sh@emdash##1##2{\cdash-##1##2}%
  \def\cdash##1##2##3{\def\tempx@{##3}%
  \def\tempa@{-}\def\tempb@{~}\def\tempc@{*}%
   \ifx\tempx@\tempa@\@Acdash\else
\ifx\tempx@\tempb@\@Bcdash\else
 \ifx\tempx@\tempc@\@Ccdash\else
  \errmessage{Wrong usage of cdash}\fi\fi\fi}
  \def\@Acdash{\ifdim\lastskip>\z@\unskip\nobreak\hskip.2em\fi
\cyrdash\hskip.2em\ignorespaces}%
  \def\@Bcdash{\leavevmode\ifdim\lastskip>\z@\unskip\fi
   \nobreak\cyrdash\penalty\exhyphenpenalty\hskip\z@skip\ignorespaces}%
  \def\@Ccdash{\leavevmode
   \nobreak\cyrdash\nobreak\hskip.35em\ignorespaces}%
  \ifx\cyrdash\undefined
\def\cyrdash{\hbox to.8em{--\hss--}}
  \fi
  \declare@shorthand{russian}{",}{\nobreak\hskip.2em\ignorespaces}%
}

\def\norussian@shorthands{%
  \@ifundefined{initiate@active@char}{}{\bbl@deactivate{"}}%
}

The real problem seems to be lines 39 to 42, in which babelsh.def is 
referenced, which does even more babelshorthand stuff. (probably that's 
why it's called babelshORTHANDS.def)


So I commented them out and your minimal example worked with polyglossia 
and mathspec.


Concerning mathspec, the problem is the macro \alpha which expands to 
"α. The double quotes are mathspecs means to overcome the missing math 
metrics in text fonts. It'd probably be better, to implement this 
differently, but they at least document it properly.


bye

Toscho

On 09.03.2012 21:11, Vadim Radionov wrote:

Hi, Tobias,

I don't need "-shorthands with unicode, but how can I switch them off?

Vadim

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Tobias Schoel
mailto:liesdieda...@googlemail.com>> wrote:

When switching to xetex, I had problems with mathspec and the
"-shorthands as well (I write in German). You should work without
"-shorthands or without mathspec. It's probably easier to work
without mathspec, if you can work with unicode-math instead (saying:
you can use a suitable font).


On 08.03.2012 22:43, Vadim Radionov wrote:

Dear list members,

I have a problem using mathspec with Greek key together with
polyglossia
with some languages, probably those using " shorthands. Check the
following example (with and without (Greek) or Russian language
selection):

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{mathspec}
\setmathsfont(Digits,Latin,__Greek){Minion Pro}

\usepackage[no-sscript]{__xltxtra}
\usepackage{polyglossia}

\setdefaultlanguage{russian}
\newfontfamily\russianfont{__Minion Pro}

\begin{document}
Проверка: $a+b=\alpha$
\end{document}

Is there any workaround, or mathspec should not be used?

Thank you in advance,
Vadim




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Re: [XeTeX] mathspec and polyglossia

[Tobias Schoel]

When switching to xetex, I had problems with mathspec and the 
"-shorthands as well (I write in German). You should work without 
"-shorthands or without mathspec. It's probably easier to work without 
mathspec, if you can work with unicode-math instead (saying: you can use 
a suitable font).


On 08.03.2012 22:43, Vadim Radionov wrote:

Dear list members,

I have a problem using mathspec with Greek key together with polyglossia
with some languages, probably those using " shorthands. Check the
following example (with and without (Greek) or Russian language selection):

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{mathspec}
\setmathsfont(Digits,Latin,Greek){Minion Pro}

\usepackage[no-sscript]{xltxtra}
\usepackage{polyglossia}

\setdefaultlanguage{russian}
\newfontfamily\russianfont{Minion Pro}

\begin{document}
Проверка: $a+b=\alpha$
\end{document}

Is there any workaround, or mathspec should not be used?

Thank you in advance,
Vadim





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Re: [XeTeX] Automate table creation

[Tobias Schoel]

Look for looping packages, e.g. multido and pgffor. pgffor's foreach 
command seems to be quite suitable, except I haven't yet made it work 
inside tabulars.


On 01.03.2012 04:27, Aleksandr Andreev wrote:

Hello everybody,

I am wondering if someone could guide me as to how to create a macro
in XeTeX that will do the following.

Background: I'm creating some files that demonstrate whether or not
OpenType features are correctly implemented in a font (for now, I am
only concerned with the correct positioning of diacritics). For this,
I would like to create a set of tables.
Across the columns of the table, I will have the diacritic marks; for
illustrative purposes, let's say they are U+0300, U+0301 and U+0311,
etc. (the actual file will have about 20 such marks)

Down the rows, I am putting characters, say U+0410 (Cyrillic A),
U+0415 (Cyrillic Ie), etc, about 50 total, not necessarily contiguous
within Unicode.

In each cell of the Table, all I need is to combine the character and
the diacritic.

So, for example, I'll have:

begin{tabular}
  &  ̀&  ́ \\
A&  À&  Á \\
etc.

Here's the question: is there any way to write a TeX macro to build
this table automatically -- i.e., I feed it the list of characters and
diacritics, and it creates the Table? Basically, I'm being lazy and
not wanting to type out the entire 50x20 table.

Thanks!

Aleksandr



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Re: [XeTeX] Problems beginning typesetting arabic text

[Tobias Schoel]

After updating Texlive, the bold version was present.

On 26.02.2012 21:34, Peter Dyballa wrote:


Am 26.2.2012 um 15:37 schrieb Tobias Schoel:


In my Texlive2011 installation, Amiri is present, but fc-list only lists a 
regular variant and \bfseries doesn't do anything on Amiri.


Try to run

fc-cache -v 
/usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/truetype/public/amiri

or

fc-cache -v -r

if still no change and check the contents of ~/.fonts.conf! (The fonts can be 
fc-listed.)

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

Und ein Geltendmachen eines Verfassungsrechtes ist deshalb - da unnötige 
Beamtinnenbeschäftigung - gebührenpflichtig.




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Re: [XeTeX] Problems beginning typesetting arabic text

[Tobias Schoel]

Thanks for your help, Zdenek, Kamal and Khaled.

On 26.02.2012 00:01, Khaled Hosny wrote:

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 09:49:01PM +0200, Tobias Schoel wrote:

Hello to all,

finally I have some Arabic text to typeset. Usually I skip the
discussion on this list, if non-latin scripts are involved, but now
I need your help.

The following minimal example:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont[Script=Arabic]{Amiri}
\setromanfont{TeX Gyre Pagella}
\newfontfamily\arabicfont[Script=Arabic]{Amiri}
\usepackage{polyglossia}
\setmainlanguage{arabic}
\setotherlanguage{english}

\begin{document}
\begin{Arabic}التصرف عند حدوث حريق و اخلاء المدرسة\end{Arabic}

\begin{english}Hello, World!\end{english}

\end{document}

Why do I have to define \arabicfont by myself? Intuitively, this
should be done by fontspec if it detects, that the main font Amiri
includes the Arabic script. Which it does.

If I comment it out, polyglossia complains, that the roman main font
(Amiri) does not support Arabic. Which it does.

This seems to be a little weird.


\setmainfont and \setromanfont are synonyms (with the former being the
old and deprecated one, apparently for good reason), so your main font
is TeX Gyre Pagella. \arabicfont is used by polyglossia inside Aribic
environment(s), if you want to use the same font for Arabic and English
you need not to define it (but current version of Amiri lack Latin
coverage).
So how should I tell fontspec (and polyglossia?) to usually write in 
Arabic using Amiri and only use TeX Gyre Pagella for Latin Script resp. 
English Language?





Finally, a little question concerning Arabic typesetting in General:

The above line in Arabic shall be a headline for instructions, so it
should be heavily emphasised. In Latin script, I would typeset it
larger and with a bold face. In Arabic, this seems to be wrong as
the usual Arabic fonts don't include bold faces. So how is heavy and
attention drawing emphasis done in Arabic script?


In traditional Arabic printing, either a larger version of the regular
typeface will be used or an entirely different typeface, often of
heavier design and sometimes of different style (e.g. a Riqaa or even
Nastaliq). Today bold is quite acceptable (but though Amiri have a bold
font, it is not as polished as the regular one, yet). Someday, I'll have
an Amiri Display optical variant :)
In my Texlive2011 installation, Amiri is present, but fc-list only lists 
a regular variant and \bfseries doesn't do anything on Amiri.


Cocerning the X Series 2: Why isn't it shipped with Texlive?

bye

Toscho



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[XeTeX] Problems beginning typesetting arabic text

[Tobias Schoel]

Hello to all,

finally I have some Arabic text to typeset. Usually I skip the 
discussion on this list, if non-latin scripts are involved, but now I 
need your help.


The following minimal example:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont[Script=Arabic]{Amiri}
\setromanfont{TeX Gyre Pagella}
\newfontfamily\arabicfont[Script=Arabic]{Amiri}
\usepackage{polyglossia}
\setmainlanguage{arabic}
\setotherlanguage{english}

\begin{document}
\begin{Arabic}التصرف عند حدوث حريق و اخلاء المدرسة\end{Arabic}

\begin{english}Hello, World!\end{english}

\end{document}

Why do I have to define \arabicfont by myself? Intuitively, this should 
be done by fontspec if it detects, that the main font Amiri includes the 
Arabic script. Which it does.


If I comment it out, polyglossia complains, that the roman main font 
(Amiri) does not support Arabic. Which it does.


This seems to be a little weird.

Finally, a little question concerning Arabic typesetting in General:

The above line in Arabic shall be a headline for instructions, so it 
should be heavily emphasised. In Latin script, I would typeset it larger 
and with a bold face. In Arabic, this seems to be wrong as the usual 
Arabic fonts don't include bold faces. So how is heavy and attention 
drawing emphasis done in Arabic script?


Thanks

Toscho
--
Tobias Schoel
Europaschule Kairo
www.europaschulekairo.com


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Re: [XeTeX] genealogical trees

[Tobias Schoel]

epic and eepic are iieehh.

although it's not really xetex, why not use gramps? it has good pdf export.

bye

toscho

On 28.01.2012 20:27, Peter Dyballa wrote:


Am 28.1.2012 um 19:01 schrieb Jacobo Myerston:


I was wondering if somebody knows a latex package to represent  genealogical 
trees.


Ecltree with epic and eepic – from the LaTeX Companion.

--
Greetings

   Pete

Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get out.
– Second Law of Blissful Ignorance




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Re: [XeTeX] Typographic question : quotation marks and apostrophes

[Tobias Schoel]

On 17.12.2011 15:10, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011, Tobias Schoel wrote:

So we're back to the days, where one had to use escape sequences for quotation
marks (\glq,\grq,"',"`,…) as though unicode had not included u2019.

Even worse, because with OpenType some font designers might include
substitution rules which include white space at font level. So, as an author,
I have to bear in mind, that for one font I need to define \englishrightquote
as u202f+u2019, and for other for another font I need to define it simply as


It has always been the case that if you want an effect different from what
was designed into the font, you had to do extra work.  Letterpress shops
used to have special tools for cutting and filing bits off of the metal
type sorts in order to do special positioning of glyphs.  There are some
nice photos here:
   http://blog.typoretum.co.uk/2009/04/01/cutting-in-letterpress-accents/

It shouldn't be surprising that if you want to use a font other than in
the way its designer intended, that requires some extra work and that that
extra work is different on a per-font basis.


Hmm, perhaps I was only thinking that u2019 and u0027 should be 
different. I still don't get, why prime (u2032) and apostroph (u2019 as 
is preferred to u0027) are different although right single quotation 
mark and apostroph are equal.


Of course, one has to do own work, if the font designer hat another 
point of view regarding his font. But if apostroph and right single 
quotation mark were different, then font designers could create fonts, 
in which quotation marks have some extra white space (for me they often 
seem too close to the letters) and apostrophs have some less wite space 
(for me, they often seem to stretch the letters in one word too far). 
(Or if not font designers, than the creators of the typesetting engines 
could insert some kerning (like with french spacing).)


bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Typographic question : quotation marks and apostrophes

[Tobias Schoel]

Do you mean csquotes? I haven't found an enquote package, but csquotes 
defines that command. (Thanks for the recommendation.)


There seems to be a problem: Working with \setmainlanguage{german} and 
\setotherlanguage{french} the commands \textfrench{\enquote{bla}} or 
\foreignquote{french}{bla} still yield german quotation marks.


Thanks

ciao

Toscho

On 17.12.2011 12:39, Gerrit Glabbart wrote:


Am 17.12.2011 um 11:34 schrieb Tobias Schoel:


So we're back to the days, where one had to use escape sequences for quotation marks 
(\glq,\grq,"',"`,…) as though unicode had not included u2019.


… or use the (babel/polyglossia aware) enquote package.



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Re: [XeTeX] Typographic question : quotation marks and apostrophes

[Tobias Schoel]

On 15.12.2011 22:27, Jonathan Kew wrote:


On 15 Dec 2011, at 19:54, Peter Baker wrote:


On 12/15/11 2:34 PM, Jonathan Kew wrote:


Not particularly relevant. The "full stop" or "period" that ends a sentence is 
semantically different from the "decimal point" that punctuates numbers. That doesn't mean we have 
separate character codes for them. From a character-encoding point of view, they're the same character; they 
just happen to have multiple uses.

JK




Just now I'm holding a book printed London 1960: like most English books 
printed at the time it uses single curly quotes for quotations. But also like 
most older printed books (at least back to the eighteenth century), the 
*spacing* of quotation marks and apostrophes is quite different, the closing 
quotation mark having a much wider left sidebearing than the apostrophe when it 
follows an alphabetic character (there's less space when it follows a mark of 
punctuation).

You don't often find this kind of spacing in contemporary books, but it's hard 
even to have the option to do this kind of old-fashioned typography when the 
apostophe and the closing quotation mark are the same glyph. We'd have to kern 
each instance manually.



From a Unicode point of view, if you want to represent this distinction at a plain-text level, one 
option might be to insert a suitable space character (e.g. U+202F narrow no-break space) before the 
"closing-quote" instances of U+2019, but not before the "apostrophe" instances. 
That's no more difficult than it would be to insert a different character code for the two usages.


This reminds me of the French convention whereby a space is often inserted 
before punctuation such as :, ? or !. I've often felt that this should really 
be implemented as a language-specific variant of the punctuation glyph (or 
language-specific kerning) in OpenType fonts, but in practice I usually see it 
done by inserting a non-breaking space (or something similar) within the text.

JK


So we're back to the days, where one had to use escape sequences for 
quotation marks (\glq,\grq,"',"`,…) as though unicode had not included 
u2019.


Even worse, because with OpenType some font designers might include 
substitution rules which include white space at font level. So, as an 
author, I have to bear in mind, that for one font I need to define 
\englishrightquote as u202f+u2019, and for other for another font I need 
to define it simply as u2019. (In German, it might be simpler, because 
u2018 is used, but which font designer adds white space to u2018, but 
not to u2019?)


So I think, I will use u2018 and so on for quotation marks, u0027 as an 
apostrophe.



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Re: [XeTeX] Typographic question : quotation marks and apostrophes

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi List,

On 15.12.2011 17:02, Jonathan Kew wrote:

On 15 Dec 2011, at 14:30, Philip TAYLOR wrote:


I know that a number of excellent typographers inhabit this
list, so I would like to pick their brains if I may ?

In "Two wide ‘weaver’s windows’, usually found on the ground floor"
(which could equally well be "Two wide ‘weavers’ windows’, usually
found on the ground floor", but I am not the author), the apostrophe
of "weaver’s/weavers’" is the same Unicode character as the closing
quotation mark of "windows’".  Should it be ?


Yes.
But why? They are semantically different. Does this “identity” come from 
historical roots?




A couple of excerpts from NamesList.txt:

0027APOSTROPHE
 = apostrophe-quote (1.0)
 = APL quote
 * neutral (vertical) glyph with mixed usage
 * 2019 is preferred for apostrophe
So does this mean, that u0027 should not be used at all for natural 
languages? I don't think, unicode would stretch its recommendation to 
programming languages, which use u0027 as string delimiters.



 * preferred characters in English for paired quotation marks are 2018& 
 2019

Thank nature, I mostly speak German … Nein!

 x (modifier letter prime - 02B9)
 x (modifier letter apostrophe - 02BC)
 x (modifier letter vertical line - 02C8)
 x (combining acute accent - 0301)
 x (prime - 2032)
So what's the recommendation for math mode in XeTeX concerning 
prime/apostroph?

 x (latin small letter saltillo - A78C)

...

2019RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 = single comma quotation mark
 * this is the preferred character to use for apostrophe
 x (apostrophe - 0027)
 x (modifier letter apostrophe - 02BC)
 x (heavy single comma quotation mark ornament - 275C)

JK


Thanks

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] tabular in footnote

[Tobias Schoel]

On 08.12.2011 12:16, Zdenek Wagner wrote:

2011/12/8 Tobias Schoel:

[snip]


There is no TeX level and LaTeX level. You have always the same set of
primitives (with extensions) but no one codes using the primitives
only.
Yes, there is a difference: TeX typesets what LaTeX tells it to. LaTeX 
transforms the structures and information _I give to LaTeX_, into 
typesetting commands for TeX.


 Even plain (Xe)TeX defines macros and most of them are shared in

LaTeX. The difference is that LaTeX offers additional macros and
changes some plain TeX macros (e.g. \line in plain TeX means \hbox to
\hsize but in LaTeX it draws a line in the picture environment).


Yes. It's not (Xe)LaTeX's purpose. It's (Xe)TeX's purpose.

But when using (Xe)LaTeX, I don't want to care about different modes.
(Xe)LaTeX should "understand" the structure, I give to text, the different
formatting options, I give to the structures, and should tell TeX, how to
accomplish these tasks.


The meaning of all these structures depends on the mode.
No, the meaning is does not depend on the mode. The tabular environment 
means, that the stuff inside is set as a table (with some options, bla 
blubb). At this point in workflow, as an author I don't care, how this 
table will be placed on the page. LaTeX has to do it. And it guesses 
based on the mode.


You cannot

break a line into a few pages because a line is a line. It would be
nonsense to have the upper part of characters on one line and the
lower part on another page.
Why would I do this, and what does this have to do with LaTeX giving me 
tools to structure and format my text.


 This is the same with a table. The tabular

environment must be handled in a different way if it appears in the
middle of a paragraph.

Then LaTeX should treat tabulars differently, depending on the mode.

The problem is, that the LaTeX manual does not

say what happens if such object are inserted within a paragraph.

It should, because of what you will say next.
[snip]

No, tabular is just a box as anything else, footnote is an insert.
From the technical side, I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, tabular 
can be 1000 times \relax or whatever, as long as it does, what it says 
it does (and nothing more): give me a table. From the structure side, I 
agree: a tabular is a box with specially laid out content; a footnote is 
a small mark and the task to do something at the foot of the page.

There is nothing specila with these structures. The problem is that a
footnote is a paragraph and tables usually do not appear in the middle
of a paragraph.
OK, so what I do care about, is how the tabular I want interacts with 
the surrounding material. LaTeX has a default for this because it needs 
a default for such things and Lamport has supposedly thought well about 
it. So when I'm don't agree with that interaction, I need to tell LaTeX 
something about this interaction. Fine, let's say the top line of the 
tabular should have the same basline as the surrounding line, and the 
next line should start below the tabular. How, how nice, that Lamport 
has thought of this idea (although not the default) and gave me the 
possibility to express this wish via the optional argument [t].


The tabular environment was not designed to work well

in the middle of a paragraph.
It does a fair job. The only thing I'd critisize concerning the issue 
is, that a \toprule or top \hline with [t] yields a tabular set below 
the baseline, because the \hline or \toprule are interpreted as the top 
line [at least I think so}]. This I would regard as a bug.


If a user wants to do it, he or she is

supposed to cope with it.

Yes, but only because LaTeX's behaviour isn't defined well in beforehand.
 LaTeX has a strong macro language and

anything can be defined. Macros for proper alignment of tables in the
middle of a paragraph can be designed but I am afraid there will not
be a general solution. If I were supposed to write such a
general-purpose macro, I would not know how to do it because I do not
know any general rule how a table should be aligned in the middle of a
paragraph.
Assuming, the content of the table is textual, it should be aligned 
along baselines or bounding boxes. One could also think of options to 
align it in a way nodes in TikZ/pgf are aligned.

[snip]

There are nice plain TeX tricks that cannot be achieved with
\newcommand.
As a LaTeX-_User_ I'm not interested in tricks of macro programming. 
That's the field of package programmers. For me, a usual programming 
interface like \newcommand, \newenvironment with optional and obligatory 
arguments or a keyval-control is sufficient.


On the other hand, \DeclareRobustCommand is a useful

macro for defining robust macros in LaTeX. If you take some features
from the plain TeX and some features from LaTeX, your life will be
easier.
I'd prefer keeping to one of them. As you said, some pla

Re: [XeTeX] tabular in footnote

[Tobias Schoel]

On 08.12.2011 05:59, Daniel Greenhoe wrote:

2011/12/8 Zdenek Wagner:

No, I do not agree. I can only agree that the LaTeX user
documentatioin is incomplete. ...
Without knowledge of the
modes you cannot understand why the table behaves differently in the
footnote. It is documented in the TeXbook.


Then if that is the current state of the platform, as a LaTeX/XeLaTeX
user it is not reasonable for me to make the demands on the system
such as I originally sought (e.g. keeping text completely within the
text area); that is,  absolute precision is beyond the reach of one
who only codes at the LaTeX/XeLaTeX level, and is only within the
reach of one who codes at the TeX level.

Yes. It's not (Xe)LaTeX's purpose. It's (Xe)TeX's purpose.

But when using (Xe)LaTeX, I don't want to care about different modes. 
(Xe)LaTeX should “understand” the structure, I give to text, the 
different formatting options, I give to the structures, and should tell 
TeX, how to accomplish these tasks.


[Because (Xe)LaTeX is only software working on hardware, which can only 
tell wheter a specific electric quantum (voltage, current, charge) is 0 
or not (1), it can only work with structures and formatting options that 
it's programmers has translated into 0 and 1.]


Which means, only the structures, formatting options and their 
interactions, which are precomposed by LaTeX or composed by the author 
(via \newcommand, \newenvironment, etc.) are available.


Unfortunately, the interaction "tabulars in footnotes" was not 
specifically designed, so it's interaction is definded by more general 
approaches, which happen to fail.




This is not a complaint, it is only an observation. I actually have a
copy of the TeX Book, I just need to open it.  ^___^

Thank you for the clarification,
Dan


2011/12/8 Zdenek Wagner:

2011/12/8 Daniel Greenhoe:

Hello Heiko,
...
In my mind (and maybe in my mind only) if I code something (e.g. a
tabular in a footnote) in accordance with documented syntax and then
the result of that code violates a parameter (e.g. a lower text area
boundary) defined in the same documentation, then that by definition
is a bug. Secondly, if  a 32 line section of code is required to
prevent my correctly coded (as defined by documented syntax) code from
violating such a parameter, then such a violation is by definition a
bug and the 32 lines of additional code is by definition a "patch".


No, I do not agree. I can only agree that the LaTeX user
documentatioin is incomplete. Consider the expression "my text". You
would certainly be disapointed if the word "text" were verticaly
aligned so that its baseline matched with the bottom of "y". That's
why boxes have height and depth and are aligned to baselines, not to
bottom. The truth is that the documentation of tabular is incomplete.
It does not say that it has zero width and the whole table extends
below baseline. Thus in your original sample file you aske LaTeX to
put the table below the baseline and LaTeX did exactly what you asked
for. Incomplete documentation is unfortunately a feature of LaTeX.
Normal users do not know that \vspace is expanded to \vskip in the
vertical mode but to \vadjust{...} in the horizontal mode and the
starred variant is esentially \vglue. I am afraid that the LaTeX
documentation does not even mention the 5 modes so that the vertical
and horizontal modes may be strange for you. Without knowledge of the
modes you cannot understand why the table behaves differently in the
footnote. It is documented in the TeXbook.


Having said that, let me make these additional comments:
  1. I am embarrassed by my own lack of knowledge with respect to TeX coding.
  2. I realize that I take a lot from this email list but contribute
nothing or next to nothing
  3. I very much appreciate all the help that I have and do receive
from this mailing list
  4. I know that beggars can't be choosers.
  5. TeX and it's derivatives has to be one of the greatest
developments of all time --- like unto the Gutenberg Press --- many
many thanks to everyone who has and continues to work so hard to
develop it.

Dan


On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Heiko Oberdiek
  wrote:

On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 06:30:39AM +0800, Daniel Greenhoe wrote:


On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:46 AM, Heiko Oberdiek
  wrote:

You have to compile twice at least.


I compiled at least 8 times using "xelatex Heiko.tex". I still get the
same error: the text extends below the text area (see attachment). You
don't get this result on your system?


And I had written:

| The following example addresses calculates the shift to align
| the baseline of the footnote line with the first line of
| the tabular. No time for looking at the problem with the overfull \vbox.

I have seen two problems with your example and one of them solved,
the other remained unsolved. No more, no less.

Taking more time, I see now, that the overfull \vbox is caused
by something different: The header is set to zero (see options
for geometry), but the page

Re: [XeTeX] tabular in footnote

[Tobias Schoel]

Can simple aligning in footnotes be achieved with tabbing? Or with 
handish \makebox[length][l]{blablubb}?



On 05.12.2011 14:14, Zdenek Wagner wrote:

2011/12/5 Petr Tomasek:

On Sun, Dec 04, 2011 at 07:31:59AM +0800, Daniel Greenhoe wrote:

When I put a tabular in a footnote, the tabular often is extended
outside the text area. Besides placing a newline directive after the
tabular environment, is there anything I can do to prevent this
behavior? That is, how can I best ensure that tabulars in a footnote
get typeset completely within the text area? Here is an example:


Put it in \vbox :-). At least I would do so in plain(Xe)TeX. :-)


In (Xe)LaTeX it will be even worse because the natural width of a
\vbox is the line width. If such a \vbox appears in a paragraph just
after the footnote number, it will result in an overful \hbox.
Breaking the line between the footnote number and the \vbox is in
principle possible but the \hbox will be badly underfull and TeX will
not do it unless \tolerance is set to 1. The problem is most
probably caused by the fact that tabular has zero height and positive
depth, it is probably set as \vtop. If placed inside \vbox, the
baseline of the \vbox will be aligned with the baseline of tabular,
thus the \vbox will still have zero height and positive depth (see my
example in one of my previous posts). Thus \vbox does not improve the
situation.


\documentclass[12pt]{book}
\usepackage[xetex,a4paper,noheadfoot,nomarginpar,margin=20mm,showframe]{geometry}
\begin{document}%
   xyz\footnote{%
 %\raisebox{2.5mm}{
   \begin{tabular}[t]{|l|}
\hline
 abc\\
 def\\
 ghj\\
 klm\\
 \hline
   \end{tabular}%\\
   %}%
 }
   xyz\footnote{%
 %\raisebox{2.5mm}{
   \begin{tabular}[t]{|l|}
\hline
 abc\\
 def\\
 ghj\\
 klm\\
 \hline
   \end{tabular}%\\
   %}%
 }
\end{document}%

Many thanks in advance,
Dan








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--
Petr Tomasek
Jabber: but...@jabbim.cz


EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA





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Re: [XeTeX] Diacritics in color

[Tobias Schoel]

On 02.12.2011 21:48, Ross Moore wrote:

Hi Tobias,


On 03/12/2011, at 6:06, Tobias Schoel  wrote:


As a teacher I can think of some more Applications. Of course, these are 
pedagogical:

Teaching scripts to beginners (learning to write a primary school, learning to 
write in a different script when learning another language (or even in the same 
language: Mongol?):

You might want to color single parts of a glyph in order to highlight them. So, for 
example in a handwritten (see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulausgangsschrift or 
english equivalents I haven't found in the time) "a" the beginning or 
end-strokes might be colored.


Yes, but are these examples really requiring parts of the same whole character 
coloured differently?

Presuming that the font did allow access to individual glyphs, as if separate 
characters, then would not all meaningful aspects be equally well (if not 
better) encoded by an overlay?
The result would be mostly the same. I don't know if some software might 
treat a partially colored glyph and two overlaid glyphs distuinguishably 
differently.


Are overlaids encoded in a font and if yes, how are they accessible via 
XeTeX?

That is, position a coloured version of the required glyph over the full 
character in monochrome.

In the pedagogical setting, you are presumably talking about the single stroke 
as a sub-part of the whole character, so it deserves to be placed as an entity 
in itself.
As a single stroke wouldn't be recognised as such, it should be shown in 
conjunction with the whole character. For example print the whole 
character in gray and the interesting stroke in brigt red.

This is quite different to a colored diacritical mark modifying the meaning of 
a character.
Do you mean a technical difference or a semantic difference? Of course, 
the semantics differ. That's also the case with mathematical diacritics 
vs. text diacritics. The technical aspects should serve these semantics.




Of course the font creator has to create sub-glyphs or other fancy stufff, but 
XeTeX should allow (re)composition of the glyph with different colors.

bye

Toscho


Hope this helps,

Ross



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Re: [XeTeX] Diacritics in color

[Tobias Schoel]

As a teacher I can think of some more Applications. Of course, these are 
pedagogical:


Teaching scripts to beginners (learning to write a primary school, 
learning to write in a different script when learning another language 
(or even in the same language: Mongol?):


You might want to color single parts of a glyph in order to highlight 
them. So, for example in a handwritten (see 
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulausgangsschrift or english equivalents 
I haven't found in the time) "a" the beginning or end-strokes might be 
colored.


Of course the font creator has to create sub-glyphs or other fancy 
stufff, but XeTeX should allow (re)composition of the glyph with 
different colors.


bye

Toscho

On 02.12.2011 19:02, Karljurgen Feuerherm wrote:

Thanks, Khaled.

I realize the limitations etc.--just thought I'd note that these things
are in some measure possible, if one wishes to implement them (not that
one 'should', necessarily). In particular with regards to some recent
posts, I seem to remember that glyph sub-definition was not limited to
horizontal slices, either: one could define sub-bounding boxes of
whatever type. (And with WorldPad, the cursor could be placed within
glyphs, too, I think...)

K


On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at  7:34 PM, in message

<20111202003413.GE7306@khaled-laptop>, Khaled Hosny

wrote:

OpenType has ligature caret info (in GDEF table) but is less

flexible

than what Graphite offers (only horizontal position is provided) and
very few fonts, if any, have it.

Regards,
  Khaled

On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 01:56:45PM -0500, Karljurgen Feuerherm

wrote:

I seem to recall from the days when I was doing demos/mock-ups for

the

cuneiform encoding proposal that SIL's graphite/WorldPad combo

allowed

one to do things of this sort; it involved specifying sub-areas in
special font tables, which the software of course had to know

about.


Not sure whether that's useful to this discussion, but thought I'd
mention it.

K


On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at  6:31 PM, in message

f\textcolor{red}{f}


In this case FireFox colourises half of resulting ff ligatures

(1/3

in

ffi etc), I'm not sure how this is done or if it is possible with

PDF

at

all, but that is of limited value anyway specially for ligatures

that

can not be split vertically or into equal parts (ligatures carets

might

provide a clue in the later case, but they are rarely provided by

font

developers).




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Re: [XeTeX] Detect, whether a font contains a certain character

[Tobias Schoel]

Thanks a lot for the macro. A small summary (as I understand the code): 
\IfXeTeXTextCharExists takes three arguments:

1. the character (as direct input or via -notation)
2. then-clause (executed, if the char exists in the _current_ font)
3. else-clause

As I'm no texnician, only XeLaTeX-User, can I copy the code from 
%%%Begin%%% to %%%End%%% into my own package and it'll work as described 
above, or do I have to take care of something else?


Toscho

Am 29.11.2011 17:05, schrieb Heiko Oberdiek:

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 07:40:13AM +, Jonathan Kew wrote:


On 28 Nov 2011, at 08:06, Heiko Oberdiek wrote:


\catcode`\{=1
\catcode`\}=2
\catcode`\^=7
\showboxdepth=1
\showboxbreadth=1
\tracingonline=1
\font\rm=cmr10\relax
\rm
\setbox0=\hbox{\kern1pt018e}
\showbox0
\csname @@end\endcsname\end

And where is the inserted ".notdef" glyph?


There won't be one with cmr10: that's a TFM font, so missing chars get dropped, 
just like in standard TeX. But if \rm is a native truetype/opentype font, it'll 
be there:

\catcode`\{=1
\catcode`\}=2
\catcode`\^=7
\showboxdepth=1
\showboxbreadth=1
\scrollmode
\tracingonline=1
\font\rm="Trebuchet MS"
\rm
\setbox0=\hbox{\kern1pt018e}
\showbox0
\showthe\wd0
\end

-->

This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.3-0.9997.5 (TeX Live 2011)
  restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
(./x.tex
Missing character: There is no ?? in font Trebuchet MS!

\box0=

\hbox(5.45789+0.0)x6.0
.\kern 1.0
.\rm ??

! OK.
l.11 \showbox0


6.0pt.

l.12 \showthe\wd0

  )

Which tells us that the width of .notdef in Trebuchet MS is 5pt, but tells
us nothing (from within the document - the "Missing character" message
tells us externally, of course) about the presence or absence of U+018E in
this font.


Thanks for clarifying.

I try to summarize, state of the art for testing the existence
of a glyph is the following algorithm, implemented in the
macro \IfXeTeXTextCharExists. I have added a local
\tracinglostchars=0 to get rid of the warning in the .log file.

\catcode`\{=1
\catcode`\}=2
\catcode`\#=6
\catcode`\^=7
\showboxdepth=1
\showboxbreadth=1
\scrollmode
\tracingonline=1

%%% Begin %%%
\def\IfXeTeXTextCharExists#1{%
   \begingroup
 \long\def\next##1##2{##2}%
 % or in LaTeX: \let\next\@secondoftwo
 \ifnum\XeTeXfonttype\font>0 %
   \ifnum\XeTeXcharglyph`#1>0 %
 \long\def\next##1##2{##1}%
 % or in LaTeX: \let\next\@firstoftwo
   \fi
 \else
   \setbox0=\hbox{%
 \tracinglostchars=0 %
 \kern1sp#1%
 \expandafter
   }%
   \ifnum\lastkern=1 %
   \else
 \long\def\next##1##2{##1}%
 % or in LaTeX: \let\next\@firstoftwo
   \fi
 \fi
   \expandafter\endgroup
   \next
}
%%% End %%%

\def\Test#1#2{%
   \begingroup
 \font\test=#1\relax
 \test
 \IfXeTeXTextCharExists{#2}{%
   \immediate\write16{YES (\detokenize{#1/#2})}%
 }{%
   \immediate\write16{NO (\detokenize{#1/#2})}%
 }%
   \endgroup
}
\Test{"Trebuchet MS"}{A}
\Test{cmr10}{A}
\Test{"Trebuchet MS"}{018e}
\Test{cmr10}{018e}

\end


the problem is rather that a existing glyph can have width zero
(not likely in your case)


The algorithm doesn't look for the width, that avoids that problem.


and that there is a warning in the .log file.


Solved by a local setting of \tracinglostchars=0.


Or what do you suggest for a general test of glyph existence?


For native Unicode fonts, as I said, use \XeTeXcharglyph.


I agree, see above.


For TFM fonts, I
don't think the question is particularly interesting or worthwhile.



TFM fonts do not have a standard encoding, so querying them for a
particular "character code" is meaningless - you have to know the encoding
of the font you're using in order to do anything useful with it, in which
case you should already know what characters it supports.


If TFM fonts are used, then the encoding and character code has to
be known. But that does not answer the question whether the character
is available in the font. There are incomplete fonts, see the
subencodings of TS1.
   Testing this revealed another general glyph test problem: A font might
not support a glyph, but provide a funny replacement instead,
thus at TeX level this cannot be detected, because the glyph exists.

Yours sincerely
   Heiko Oberdiek


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Re: [XeTeX] Detect, whether a font contains a certain character

[Tobias Schoel]

So this seems to work:

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{XITS Math}

\usepackage{siunitx}
\sisetup{%
detect-all,
}

\newcounter{works}
\setcounter{works}{0}

\usepackage{pgffor}

\begin{document}

\newcommand{\ifavailablethenelse}[4]{%#1=font,#2=charcode,#3=then-clause,#4=else-clause
\setcounter{works}{0}
\bgroup
\font\test="#1" \test
\ifnum\XeTeXfonttype\font>0
 \ifnum\XeTeXcharglyph"#2>0
  \setcounter{works}{1}
 \fi
\fi
\egroup
\ifnum\theworks=1
 #3
\else
 #4
\fi
}

\sisetup{math-celsius=foo}

\foreach \phont in {Asana Math,XITS Math, STIXGeneral, Neo Euler}
{
\ifavailablethenelse{\phont}{2103}{\sisetup{math-celsius=℃}}{%
 \ifavailablethenelse{\phont}{00B0}{\sisetup{math-celsius=°C}}{
  \sisetup{math-celsius=nix}
 }
}
\setmathfont{\phont}
\(\SI{123}{\celsius}\)
}


\sisetup{text-celsius=bar}

\foreach \phont in {DejaVu Serif, Linux Libertine O, TeX Gyre Pagella, 
Arial}

{
\ifavailablethenelse{\phont}{2103}{\sisetup{text-celsius=℃}}{%
 \ifavailablethenelse{\phont}{00B0}{\sisetup{text-celsius=°C}}{
  \sisetup{text-celsius=niente}
 }
}
\setmainfont{\phont}
\SI{123}{\celsius}
}
\end{document}

Albeit, it seems to be slow.


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Re: [XeTeX] Detect, whether a font contains a certain character

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

thanks to your answers.

Am 28.11.2011 09:19, schrieb Jonathan Kew:
[snip]


Assuming the OP is interested in "native" truetype/opentype fonts, not 
.tfm-based fonts, \XeTeXcharglyph is the simple answer.

JK


As I normally use (Linux Libertine O or TeX Gyre Pagella), Linux 
Biolinum O and Asana Math, I'm interested i "native" opentype fonts.


\XeTeXcharglyph (and Heiko's code) work in text mode. But I also print 
SI values in math mode, where it doesn't work. See the minimal example:


\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont{DejaVu Serif}
\setmathfont{XITS Math}

\usepackage{siunitx}
\sisetup{%
detect-all,
}

\usepackage{pgffor}

\begin{document}
\sisetup{%
text-celsius=9
}
\foreach \phont in {TeX Gyre Pagella, Linux Libertine O, DejaVu Serif}
 {
 \setmainfont{\phont}
 \ifnum\XeTeXfonttype\font>0
7
\ifnum\XeTeXcharglyph"2103>0
  8
  \sisetup{text-celsius=℃}\SI{123}{\celsius}
\fi
  \fi
 \SI{456}{\celsius}\\
 }


\sisetup{%
math-celsius=9
}
\foreach \phont in {Asana Math, XITS Math, STIXGeneral, Neo Euler}
 {
 \setmathfont{\phont}
 \(\ifnum\XeTeXfonttype\font>0
7
\ifnum\XeTeXcharglyph"2103>0
  8
  \sisetup{math-celsius=℃}\SI{123}{\celsius}
\fi
  \fi\)
 \(\SI{456}{\celsius}\)\\
 }

\end{document}

Although u2103 (why did Heiko use u018e=latin capital reversed E?) is 
only available in Asana Math (which on the other hand doesn't have °) 
the innermost \if yields true (can be seen by printing the 8 and setting 
math-celsius to a not-defined glyph).


Another problem (but that might be due to siunitx): the following 
\SI{456}{\celsius} doesn't know about the \sisetup in the math before. I 
assume this has something to do with grouping and local/global changes. 
But how can I check for glyph availability in math fonts whithout going 
into math mode via \(\)?


Thanks

Toscho


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[XeTeX] Detect, whether a font contains a certain character

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

I know, this question has been raised several times on this list. But 
I'm bad at searching, so I'm just asking:


How can I detect, whether a font contains a certain character (let's say 
u2103=Degree Celsius symbol) from within XeTeX?


Application:
If a font has this glyph, I would like siunitx to use it as the unit 
symbol for \celsius.
If a font doesn't have this glyph, I would like siunitx to use °C as the 
unit symbol for \celsius.


Thanks

Toscho
--
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Europaschule Kairo
www.europaschulekairo.com


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Re: [XeTeX] Scaling fonts in fontspec changes the relative gap in 100 °C when using siunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 24.11.2011 16:18, schrieb Joseph Wright:

On 24/11/2011 13:56, Tobias Schoel wrote:

Hi,

consider this minimal example:

\documentclass{minimal}

\newcommand{\phont}{Asana Math}
\newcommand{\Phont}{TeX Gyre Pagella}

\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont{\Phont}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{\phont}

\usepackage{siunitx}
\sisetup{%
math-celsius=℃,
text-celsius=℃,
detect-all
}

\begin{document}
\setmainfont[Scale=1]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=2]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=3]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=4]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=5]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=6]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=7]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=8]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=9]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=10]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\clearpage
\renewcommand{\Phont}{TeX Gyre Pagella Bold}

\setmainfont[Scale=1]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=2]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=3]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=4]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=5]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=6]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=7]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=8]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=9]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=10]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\clearpage

\setmathfont[Scale=1]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=2]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=3]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=4]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=5]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=6]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=7]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=8]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=9]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=10]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)
\end{document}

When scaling the fonts, it seems to me, that the gap between 100 and °C
(actually its ℃=u2103), which some fonts don't have but TeX Gyre Pagella
and Asana Math do, gets smaller in relation to the overall size.

What is the reason for this?

bye

Toscho



The 'gap' here is the product marker for multiplication of the value by
the unit. This is by default a thin space, and is always set in math
mode using the current siunitx approach. You can force the use of the
text mode font with

   \sisetup{number-unit-product = \text{\,}}
Yes, that helps. I have now also seen, that siunitx got updated to 2.4, 
which deals with the problem of "minus" I issued at bitbuckt.




Now, the reason that this is in math mode is because I was aiming at the
case where products are actually shown as such, using \cdot or \times.
It seemed (when I initially wrote siunitx) that forcing math mode here
was the most sensible approach.

In siunitx v2.4 (current release), I dropped several of these 'always
math' ideas, and am currently seeing what feedback I get on this. *If*
this seems acceptable to users, I may alter the behaviour of the
'product-like' options to also require \ensuremath to guarantee math
mode for symbols. This would be a breaking change, and so I feel it is
best to first see how the changes in v2.4 work in practice.
I'm not sure about the defaults either, but if I say "mode=text" or 
"detect-mode" & use \SI in text-mode, then I don't want any 
tex-math-mode to fiddle around in the output. That often confused me in 
the last time. I will try with 2.4.


Thanks

Toscho


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[XeTeX] Scaling fonts in fontspec changes the relative gap in 100 °C when using siunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

consider this minimal example:

\documentclass{minimal}

\newcommand{\phont}{Asana Math}
\newcommand{\Phont}{TeX Gyre Pagella}

\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont{\Phont}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{\phont}

\usepackage{siunitx}
\sisetup{%
math-celsius=℃,
text-celsius=℃,
detect-all
}

\begin{document}
\setmainfont[Scale=1]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=2]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=3]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=4]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=5]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=6]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=7]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=8]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=9]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=10]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\clearpage
\renewcommand{\Phont}{TeX Gyre Pagella Bold}

\setmainfont[Scale=1]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=2]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=3]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=4]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=5]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=6]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=7]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=8]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=9]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\setmainfont[Scale=10]{\Phont}
\SI{100}{\celsius}

\clearpage

\setmathfont[Scale=1]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=2]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=3]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=4]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=5]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=6]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=7]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=8]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=9]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)

\setmathfont[Scale=10]{\phont}
\(\SI{100}{\celsius}\)
\end{document}

When scaling the fonts, it seems to me, that the gap between 100 and °C 
(actually its ℃=u2103), which some fonts don't have but TeX Gyre Pagella 
and Asana Math do, gets smaller in relation to the overall size.


What is the reason for this?

bye

Toscho

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Europaschule Kairo
www.europaschulekairo.com


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Re: [XeTeX] Whitespace in input

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 14.11.2011 18:30, schrieb msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca:

1.  No.  That is not what Unicode is for.  Unicode's goal is to subsume
all reasonable pre-existing encodings.

Unicode is even more. Look at all the Annexes to Unicode 6.0

 Some reasonable pre-existing

encodings include a non-breaking space character, so Unicode includes one.
That does not mean Unicode says you should actually use it!  There are
many precedents of Unicode providing multiple ways of representing
things, as a result of including characters from other systems, without
it being reasonable to demand that all Unicode-compatible systems must
support all of them.  For instance, most of the U+FFxx range is devoted
to different kinds of hacks for handling partial-width characters in
Asian-language typesetting; the preferred way to do that nowadays is via
OpenType features, but the code points remain in the standard.  The U+
to U+001F range is basically control characters for Teletype machines;
some of those, like U+000A and U+000D, are widely used in modern documents
(but in varying ways by different systems!) and others, like U+001D, are
virtually unheard-of.  Unicode does NOT say everybody has to support them
all let alone all in the same way.
Hmm, I have difficulties exactly understanding the conformance chapter 
of Unicode 6.0 ( http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ch03.pdf 
), but it seems to me, that claiming unicode support seems a very strong 
statement.




The U+00A0 code points is not explicitly deprecated in Unicode, but it was
never a principle of Unicode that all implementations have to support all
defined control characters regardless of appropriateness to the particular
purpose.  "Non-breaking space" is, from TeX's point of view, not really a
character at all, but a formatting command; and TeX already has a way of
dealing with formatting commands in general and this one in particular.
It is appropriate to say that the preferred way of handling non-breaking
spaces in TeX input is the existing TeX way; and saying that in NO WAY AT
ALL contradicts anything in Unicode.  Unicode is servant, not master.

I think it's more like math being servant _and_ master of natural sciences.


2. Inevitably, people will include invalid characters in TeX input; and
U+00A0 is an invalid character for TeX input.  The best way to deal with
it is to treat it like any other invalid character and generate an error
message.  A reasonable alternative would be to say "it is whitespace; it
will be treated like other whitespace."  That would mean ignoring its
breaking/non-breaking-ness, as we have for a long time similarly ignored
the special properties of U+0009 (tab).  Of course, if users want to
define a special meaning for U+00A0 in their own input, they can do so
with the existing mechanisms for redefining the meanings of input
characters; but "U+00A0 is equivalent to U+007E (~)," for instance, should
never be the default and (because of trouble displaying it) shouldn't be
encouraged.
Now we come to the trouble of Unicode specifying a line-breaking 
algorithm ( http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr14/tr14-26.html ), which 
probably isn't exactly TeX's. I'm not into these algorithms, so I can't 
compare. But I would ask some Master of this Art to speak up about this 
conflict.




3. No.  Better to keep everything visible and backward compatible.  U+007E
(~) should remain the preferred way of doing non-breaking space.

Should and is … (see other posts).


4. Not applicable because of the answer to #3.  Users who do insist on
putting U+00A0 in their input presumably have *already* got their own
reasons to think that it's more convenient for them, including solutions
satisfactory to themselves for how to type it on keyboards and see it on
screens, so that's their business and not a problem we need to solve.

I'm personally trying hard to find a correct way. As of now, I have 
found a very simple solution to input special whitespace characters. 
(Using Linux, doing this is easy business with ibus.) Alas, I haven't 
found any editor suited better to my TeX needs than Kile, but I haven't 
yet managed to highlight these special whitespace characters properly.
=> Some experts can do all these things. That doesn't mean, everyone 
else should stick do "stupid old" ASCII-7.


bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Tobias Schoel]

Now, that the practicability is cleared, let's come back to the 
philosophical part:


Should  =u00a0 be active and treated as ~ by default? Just like 
u202f and u2009 should be active and treated as \, and \,\hspace{0pt}?


Where would such a default take place:
- XeTeX engine
- XeLaTeX format
- some package (xunicode, fontspec, some new package)
- my own package/preamble template

As was discussed in the Thread "Space characters and whitespace", using 
these characters without any treatment contradicts TeX's spacing 
algorithms. So it seems, one should not use these characters and blame 
unicode OR treat these characters specially.


bye

Toscho

Am 13.11.2011 21:36, schrieb Mike Maxwell:

On 11/13/2011 11:09 AM, Tobias Schoel wrote:

How much text flow control mechanism should be done by none-ASCII
characters? Unicode has different codepoints for signs with the same
meaning but different text flow control (space vs. non-break space). So
text flow could be controled via Unicode codepoints. But should it? Or
should text flow be controled via commands and active characters?

One opinion says, that using (La)TeX is programming. Consequently, each
character used should be visually well distinguishable. This is not the
case with all the Unicode white space characters.

One opinion says, that using (La)TeX is transforming plain text (like
.txt) in well formatted text. Consequently, the plain text may contain
as much (meta)-information as possible and these information should be
used when transforming it to well formatted text. So Unicode white space
characters are allowed and should be valued by their specific meaning.


And on the third hand, XeTeX could allow both.

 > How would you visually differentiate between all
 > the white space characters (space vs. non-break space, thin space
 > (u2009) vs. narrow no-break space (u202f), … ) such that the text
 > remains readable?

Of course, there's precedent for this kind of problem: tab characters.
For that matter, many text editors display Unicode combining diacritics
over or under the base character that they go with, which is already
getting away from a straightforward display of the underlying characters.

At any rate, there are lots of ways non-ASCII space characters could be
distinguished; Philip Taylor mentions color coding, which is certainly
possible. Another would be to display some kind of code for non-ASCII
spaces. There's one font which displays all characters as nothing but
their Unicode code points (in hex) inside some kind of box. A tex(t)
editor could certainly be programmed to display control characters
(which these space characters essentially are) differently from the
"regular" characters (which would continue to be displayed with an
ordinary font).

The editor I use, jEdit, provides yet another option: a command
(bindable to a keystroke) that tells me the Unicode code point of any
character, on the editor's status line.



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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 13.11.2011 20:25, schrieb Zdenek Wagner:

2011/11/13 Tobias Schoel:



Am 13.11.2011 12:35, schrieb Zdenek Wagner:


2011/11/13:


On Sun, 13 Nov 2011, Petr Tomasek wrote:


make ~ not active when writing my own macros because it contradicts
the Unicode standard...)


Isn't it just as much a "contradiction" of the "standard" for \ to do
what \ does?  I don't think that is a good way to decide what TeX's
input format should be.
--


And how about math and tables in TeX? And I would like to know a good
text editor that visually displays U+00a0 in such a way that I can
easily distinguish it from U+0020. If I canot see the difference, I
can never be sure. And I definitely do not want to use hexedit for my
TeX files.


That is a good question. It's close to a question I asked earlier on this
list:

How much text flow control mechanism should be done by none-ASCII
characters? Unicode has different codepoints for signs with the same meaning
but different text flow control (space vs. non-break space). So text flow
could be controled via Unicode codepoints. But should it? Or should text
flow be controled via commands and active characters?

One opinion says, that using (La)TeX is programming. Consequently, each
character used should be visually well distinguishable. This is not the case
with all the Unicode white space characters.

One opinion says, that using (La)TeX is transforming plain text (like .txt)
in well formatted text. Consequently, the plain text may contain as much
(meta)-information as possible and these information should be used when
transforming it to well formatted text. So Unicode white space characters
are allowed and should be valued by their specific meaning.


(La)TeX source file is not a plain text. Every LaTeX document nowadays
starts with \documentclass but such text is not present in the output.


Of course, the preamble isn't plain text, but mostly macros. I thought 
of the body of the document. I think, it's common practice for larger 
documents to have a main latex file, which reads \documentclass … 
\begin{document}\input{first_chapter}\input{second_chapter}…\end{document}
In these cases, the input documents are more or less plain text 
(depending on the subject).



Even XML is not plain text, you can use entities as ,' and
many more. Of course, if (La)TeX is used for automatic processing of
data extracted from a database that can contain a wide variety of
Unicode character, it is a valid question how to handle such input.
Or if the content is copy-pasted, from let's say HTML. But who would do 
that …





Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles.
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/


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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 13.11.2011 18:16, schrieb Philip TAYLOR:



Tobias Schoel wrote:


One opinion says, that using (La)TeX is programming. Consequently, each
character used should be visually well distinguishable. This is not the
case with all the Unicode white space characters.


Is that not a function of the editor used ? Is it not valid
for an editor to display different Unicode spaces differently,
such that the user can visually differentiate between them ?

Philip Taylor


Not in every case. How would you visually differentiate between all the 
white space characters (space vs. non-break space, thin space (u2009) 
vs. narrow no-break space (u202f), … ) such that the text remains readable?


Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 13.11.2011 12:35, schrieb Zdenek Wagner:

2011/11/13:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011, Petr Tomasek wrote:

make ~ not active when writing my own macros because it contradicts
the Unicode standard...)


Isn't it just as much a "contradiction" of the "standard" for \ to do
what \ does?  I don't think that is a good way to decide what TeX's
input format should be.
--

And how about math and tables in TeX? And I would like to know a good
text editor that visually displays U+00a0 in such a way that I can
easily distinguish it from U+0020. If I canot see the difference, I
can never be sure. And I definitely do not want to use hexedit for my
TeX files.


That is a good question. It's close to a question I asked earlier on 
this list:


How much text flow control mechanism should be done by none-ASCII 
characters? Unicode has different codepoints for signs with the same 
meaning but different text flow control (space vs. non-break space). So 
text flow could be controled via Unicode codepoints. But should it? Or 
should text flow be controled via commands and active characters?


One opinion says, that using (La)TeX is programming. Consequently, each 
character used should be visually well distinguishable. This is not the 
case with all the Unicode white space characters.


One opinion says, that using (La)TeX is transforming plain text (like 
.txt) in well formatted text. Consequently, the plain text may contain 
as much (meta)-information as possible and these information should be 
used when transforming it to well formatted text. So Unicode white space 
characters are allowed and should be valued by their specific meaning.





Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles.
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/


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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Tobias Schoel]

As a simple user (very simple: none of my work gets published, I just 
use TeX for myself): What do I have to think about, when moving from 
XeLaTeX to LuaLaTeX?


I took a random document I created last week and tried to compile it 
with lualatex instead of xelatex. It threw an error because of 
polyglossia. OK, I commented out polyglossia. It compiled without error 
but hyphenation was broken (the text was German). I added 
\usepackage[ngerman]{babel} [would be great error in xetex as I read 
often on this list] and the document compiled without errors and with 
good hyphenation.


So was it luck or  should this be standard?

bye

Toscho

Am 28.10.2011 16:33, schrieb Vafa Khalighi:

As an example, the attached PDF is just a portion of a maths textbook
with the title "Theory of Ordinary Differential Equation and Dynamic
Systems" which has been typeset using XePersian andit is published
just today in Iran.

http://www.mehrnews.com/fa/newsdetail.aspx?NewsID=1440752





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Re: [XeTeX] Performance of ucharclasses

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 25.10.2011 10:30, schrieb Keith J. Schultz:

O.K. I will jump in here.

Intellectual property rights are often a great big gray zone.
Maybe, it is time the author of the package speaks up himself
what is meant.

That would help.



Also, it does seem clear if the code being used or parts thereof are from a
different party, who may or may not have rights which they will enforce.

Furthermore, the author at least signals, s/he wants to keep control of the 
code.
The use of "discouraged" indicates that the author or a third party may or may 
not
go to court over the modified version. It is very clear that the author does 
not want
modified versions being distributed. I admit that stronger legal terms should 
have been
used.
It's clear that he wants to keep control of the code of the  package 
called ucharclasses . What is not clear at all, is, whether one might 
borrow freely from this package when writing a different package. This 
issue is not covered exactly as this. It is allowed to use the package 
freely. A definition of "use" is missing. One might argue, that copying 
the text, changing it and calling it the foobar package, is use.




As the author has used this fuzzy legal terminology, it very hard to say how a 
judge might
rule. It is like parking a car just because the car is not parked inside of a 
no parking zone
you could still get a fine.
Exactly: copyright laws still apply. So a restriction in a software 
license is usually nonsense: Everything that is forbidden by law need 
not be forbidden by license. Everything that is not forbidden by law 
can't be forbidden by license. (This might depend on the judicion, so 
it's probably wrong in the USA.)




It is sane not to include this package in TeXLive as to avoid the complications 
above, as
you never know want a contributor may do with the code and unknowingly cause 
problems
and why should TeXLive put effort into a package that is not freely available, 
to ensure that they
right side of the law.

regards
Keith.

Am 23.10.2011 um 18:59 schrieb Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd):




msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:

clearly they are -- but in terms of actual requirements.  Since
you are only "discouraged from" and not "prohibited from"
making changes, I believe that a court of law would find that
there is no actual inconsistency in practice.


Do note that the ucharclasses package isn't covered by the LPPL at all.
The author is free to put whatever license he wants on it, and whether
the license he chose is consistent with the LPPL isn't particularly
relevant.  We might as well as whether it's consistent with the GNU GPL
or the Argentinian Constitution.


The issue that Vafa raised was as follows :


No, the license of the package in not LPPL.
In fact, it is non-free and that is why it
is not included in TeXLive. The README in "License" section says:



You
may freely use this package, but you are discouraged from
modifying this package and then redistributing it. Instead,
please contact me (ideally on the XeTeX mailing list) and
we can discuss the changes you wish to make. If they
benefit everyone, they will be worked in as a new version.


and the point that I was making is that "discouraged from"
is not the same as "are not allowed to" and therefore should
not be taken as an reason to exclude the package from TeX Live.
Whether the package licence conflicts with the LPPL, or with the
GNU PL, or with the Constitution of Argentina, is not really
the point at issue.

Philip Taylor





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Re: [XeTeX] Performance of ucharclasses

[Tobias Schoel]

I'm German, so I have neither the linguistic nor the judicial 
background. Alas, I can add my mustard (German Saying):


Discouraged is not the same as prohibited. So the license does not 
prohibit redistributing it in a modified version. But in most countries 
this doesn't matter, as copyright laws prohibit these actions.


Besides, I also wouldn't do, if it was allowed. Who knows, what methods 
the author employs in order to enforce the “discouragement”? ;-)


ciao

Toscho

Am 23.10.2011 12:48, schrieb Vafa Khalighi:

I can not comment on the difference between "discouraged" and
"prohibited" since I am Persian not British but certainly if I am
"discouraged from modifying a package", I feel that "I am  prohibited
from modifying that package".

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
mailto:p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk>> wrote:



Vafa Khalighi wrote:

Yes, firstly because it does not make the software free any more
(not just free in price but also free in modification, etc) and
secondly LPPL never discourage you from modifying the software.


I don't think you are understanding my question, Vafa : I am
not querying whether they are inconsistent in spirit -- which
clearly they are -- but in terms of actual requirements.  Since
you are only "discouraged from" and not "prohibited from"
making changes, I believe that a court of law would find that
there is no actual inconsistency in practice.


Philip Taylor


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Re: [XeTeX] Always bold math & strange unicode-math behaviour

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 17.10.2011 17:19, schrieb Ulrike Fischer:

Am Fri, 14 Oct 2011 12:55:39 +0200 schrieb Tobias Schoel:




But \mathbf{} works. \boldmath and \mathversion{bold} shouldn't care,
whether bold math is achieved with a bold type face or faked. It should
only work like invoking \mathbf{} at the beginning of each \(\) and \[\].

Is there a workaround or do I need to type \mathbf{} at the beginning of
each \(\) myself?


You shouldn't use \mathbf to make large part of an equation bold.
\mathbf is meant for single symbols and only for things like numbers
and characters. In unicode math it works by mapping them to other
unicode position. E.g. a \mathbf{0} is the MATHEMATICAL BOLD DIGIT
ZERO character at position U+1D7CE.
OK. I wasn't used to this when using normal latex. Of course I don't use 
bold math often, but for school it sometimes happens.




http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1d7ce/index.htm

If you want a bold math font you should at best use a font which has
a bold face.
Is there any good unicode-math font with a bold face (Asana Math and 
XITS Math don't work)?


In other case you will have to fake it:


\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math} % Interesting Line 1
\setmathfont{Asana Math}
\setmathfont[version=bold,FakeBold=3.5]{Asana Math}

\begin{document}
$\sqrt{\frac{\pi r^2}{4}}$

\mathversion{bold}

$\sqrt{\frac{\pi r^2}{4}}$
\end{document}

(It works fine with xelatex but for me not with lualatex.)



Thanks for the clarifications and the hint to fakebold.

bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] IPA characters

[Tobias Schoel]

Most often, it's the name your system says. So if you have some 
Fontviewing software in your OS (lime specimen for linux), it's the name 
that software shows you.




Am 16.10.2011 20:33, schrieb Hendrik Maryns:

Hi all,

thanks for the tips.

Op -10-01-37 20:59, Peter Dyballa schreef:


Am 12.10.2011 um 16:28 schrieb Hendrik Maryns:


I want to use some IPA characters in my document


What you also need is to use a font for "printing" these IPA
characters that actually has them! Not all fonts have them. The
fontspec default font, Latin Modern, does not. Linux Libertine O/Linux
Biolinum O, the GNU Free Fonts, STIX General, XITS, Times New Roman
have them.


I installed stix fonts, but how do I call it in fontspec?

The texdoc contains the ominous words: “TODO: add explanation for how to
find out what the ‘font name’ is.”

I am on openSUSE 11.4.

\setmainfont{STIX General}
does not work (fontspec error: "font-not-found")

Generally: how to now what to put in there?

The problem is solved with Linux Biolinum O, but I do not like that font
very much.

Thanks!
H.



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Re: [XeTeX] IPA characters

[Tobias Schoel]

And STIX General is known as "STIXGeneral" on my system.

Am 16.10.2011 20:33, schrieb Hendrik Maryns:

Hi all,

thanks for the tips.

Op -10-01-37 20:59, Peter Dyballa schreef:


Am 12.10.2011 um 16:28 schrieb Hendrik Maryns:


I want to use some IPA characters in my document


What you also need is to use a font for "printing" these IPA
characters that actually has them! Not all fonts have them. The
fontspec default font, Latin Modern, does not. Linux Libertine O/Linux
Biolinum O, the GNU Free Fonts, STIX General, XITS, Times New Roman
have them.


I installed stix fonts, but how do I call it in fontspec?

The texdoc contains the ominous words: “TODO: add explanation for how to
find out what the ‘font name’ is.”

I am on openSUSE 11.4.

\setmainfont{STIX General}
does not work (fontspec error: "font-not-found")

Generally: how to now what to put in there?

The problem is solved with Linux Biolinum O, but I do not like that font
very much.

Thanks!
H.



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Re: [XeTeX] Always bold math & strange unicode-math behaviour

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 13.10.2011 19:08, schrieb Peter Dyballa:


Am 13.10.2011 um 18:35 schrieb Tobias Schoel:


So what component is the source of problems.


Asana Math. It has only a regular face. (Fontspec allows to artificially make a 
font bold.)

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

To be is to do.
– I. Kant
To do is to be.
– A. Sartre
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
– F. Flintstone



But \mathbf{} works. \boldmath and \mathversion{bold} shouldn't care, 
whether bold math is achieved with a bold type face or faked. It should 
only work like invoking \mathbf{} at the beginning of each \(\) and \[\].


Is there a workaround or do I need to type \mathbf{} at the beginning of 
each \(\) myself?


And Thanks for the information so far. I really like this mailing list 
for the prompt, helpful and thought through answers.


Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Always bold math & strange unicode-math behaviour

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

your minimal example does work for me, too. I didn't investigate 
thoroughly before sending the mail. Now I have found some more issues: 
Take this minimal example:


\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math} % Interesting Line 1
\setmathfont{Asana Math}  % Interesting Line 2
\begin{document}
$$\sqrt{\frac{\pi r^2}{4}}$$
\boldmath
$$\sqrt{\frac{\pi r^2}{4}}$$
\end{document}

→ Everything is displayed, but not in bold.

Now comment out Interesting Line 2:
→ Latin Modern is chosen
→ The second formula is bold
→ The \pi is eaten up / not displayed (not even as phantom).

Now comment out Intersting Line 1:
→ The \pi is displayed well (bold and in Latin Modern)

So what component is the source of problems. It looks a lot like 
unicode-math. How can we fix it?


bye

Toscho


Am 12.10.2011 23:36, schrieb Zdenek Wagner:

2011/10/12 Tobias Schoel:

Hi,

is there a convenient way to tell XeLaTeX to print all math in bold. May be
a fontspec or unicode-math option or command?

Or a LaTeX-command? \boldmath doesn't work.


Do you have \boldmath outside math? This works for me, compare the
output of both equations:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\begin{document}
$$\pi r^2 / 4$$

\boldmath
$$\pi r^2 / 4$$
\end{document}



Thanks

Toscho
--
Tobias Schoel
Europaschule Kairo
www.europaschulekairo.com


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[XeTeX] Always bold math

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

is there a convenient way to tell XeLaTeX to print all math in bold. May 
be a fontspec or unicode-math option or command?


Or a LaTeX-command? \boldmath doesn't work.

Thanks

Toscho
--
Tobias Schoel
Europaschule Kairo
www.europaschulekairo.com


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Re: [XeTeX] IPA characters

[Tobias Schoel]

If you mean the /ɑ/:

the character seems not to be included in Latin Modern (standard with 
fontspec).


Use a font, which has it, for example Linux Libertine O:

\documentclass{scrartcl}

\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont{Linux Libertine O}
\begin{document}

\emph{oma} eerder als een ‘korte a’ /ɑ/ uitgesprok

alfabet bestaan daar reets tekens voor: ŋ, x, œ.
verschillen: in Haarlem zou dat eerder ŋ, χ en œy

\end{document}

works.

bye

Toscho

Am 12.10.2011 16:28, schrieb Hendrik Maryns:

\documentclass{scrartcl}

\usepackage{fontspec}

\begin{document}

\emph{oma} eerder als een ‘korte a’ /ɑ/ uitgesprok

alfabet bestaan daar reets tekens voor: ŋ, x, œ.
verschillen: in Haarlem zou dat eerder ŋ, χ en œy

\end{document}



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Re: [XeTeX] Missing char, missing footnote

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 11.10.2011 23:19, schrieb Zdenek Wagner:

2011/10/11 Tobias Schoel:



Am 11.10.2011 21:20, schrieb Karljurgen Feuerherm:


Hello Ross,


On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at  3:15 PM, in message



(2) The footnote has vanished. I suppose that means footnotes aren't


legal


in tables of this type... Can someone suggest a solution to this?

The footnote occurs within a floating table. Which page should it go


onto?


Put the {tabular} into a {minipage}, then the footnote will be tied


to that.

Ok--will try that.


Also, why declare the {table} inside the {enumerate} list, when you


know


that it will float to elsewhere? It probably works OK, but it makes


your


LaTeX source harder to read and thus complicates any later editing


that you


may need to do.


Well--ideally I don't really want it to float, I want it *right there*.
I'm still learning the finer points of these things, but I see your
point :)


If you don't want it to float, don't use a floating environment like
\begin{table}. Just leave it out. (And think twice about centering the
tabular.)


Without floating environment \caption will not work. There are tricks
how to do it but imagine what happens if there is no space for the
whole table on the page. You will have to invent some additional text
above the itemization list in order to put a few items and the table
to the next page. Just one item plus the table would look very ugly.
Do you really want to do that? I would rather think a bit more about
the document structure.


I don't know, what functionality of captions you need. For only text 
below (or above) the tabular, there are simple methods such as 
multicolumn or a surrounding tabular or a minipage / parbox.


For more specific functionality you should really think about what the 
purpose and structure of this table in this document are. Maybe, letting 
it flow is better suited.


Generally speaking: before forcing LaTeX to do something, it doesn't 
naturally support, think about adapting to LaTeX's way.






ciao

Toscho



Thanks!

K


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Re: [XeTeX] Missing char, missing footnote

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 11.10.2011 21:20, schrieb Karljurgen Feuerherm:

Hello Ross,


On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at  3:15 PM, in message



(2) The footnote has vanished. I suppose that means footnotes aren't

legal

in tables of this type... Can someone suggest a solution to this?

The footnote occurs within a floating table. Which page should it go

onto?

Put the {tabular} into a {minipage}, then the footnote will be tied

to that.

Ok--will try that.


Also, why declare the {table} inside the {enumerate} list, when you

know

that it will float to elsewhere? It probably works OK, but it makes

your

LaTeX source harder to read and thus complicates any later editing

that you

may need to do.


Well--ideally I don't really want it to float, I want it *right there*.
I'm still learning the finer points of these things, but I see your
point :)


If you don't want it to float, don't use a floating environment like 
\begin{table}. Just leave it out. (And think twice about centering the 
tabular.)


ciao

Toscho



Thanks!

K


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Re: [XeTeX] Problems with xcolor and fontspec

[Tobias Schoel]

Try using tikz/pgf.

Am 03.10.2011 16:52, schrieb Stephen Moye:

Xecolor provides none of the facilities that I need, most importantly, access 
to the HSB color model. It is in no way a replacement for xcolor, but simply 
provides a range of colors made accessible through fontspec's \addfonfeature 
command.

Sounded promising on the face of it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Stephen



On Oct 3, 2011, at 10:29 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:



On Oct 3, 2011, at 8:57 AM, Stephen Moye wrote:


The following minimum example shows the problem: I would like to generate some 
text in random colors and specify the opacity. In the example file below, 
either I get black text with opacity of 50%, or random colors at 100% opacity, 
or one random color for all the text at 50% opacity. Can I have my cake and eat 
it too? That is, can I have random colors *and* control over the opacity?

I'm using MacTeX 2011.

Thanks for any insights.

Stephen Moye

%%=8><-%%

% !TEX TS-program = XeLaTeX-xdv2pdf

\documentclass{article}

\input random
\usepackage{xcolor}
\usepackage{fontspec}

\setmainfont{Helvetica}

\newlength{\huedim}

\newcommand{\randcolor}{%
\setrandim\huedim{0.0pt}{1.0pt}%
\definecolor{mycolor}{hsb}{\pointless\huedim,1.0,1.0}%
\color{mycolor}
}

\newcommand{\testit}[3]{%
%%% Uncomment *one* of the following \put commands to see the 
difference:
%
%%% This returns only gray:
%\put(#1,#2){\randcolor\addfontfeature{Opacity=0.5}\color{mycolor}#3}
%
%%% This returns only the color first defined:

%\put(#1,#2){\randcolor\addfontfeature{Color=mycolor,Opacity=0.5}\color{mycolor}#3}
%
%%% This works as it should, but the opacity is 100%
%\put(#1,#2){\randcolor\color{mycolor}#3}
}

\begin{document}

\begin{picture}(100,100)
\testit{20}{100}{X}
\testit{30}{90}{y}
\testit{40}{80}{z}
\end{picture}

\end{document}



Howdy,

Don't know if this will help but try using the xecolor package. Note that it's 
commands have a different name than the xcolor package though.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)






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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Tobias Schoel]

Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only 
the Peano Axioms and the unary system? I mean, the natural numbers and 
the peano axioms are nature given / god given (choose whatever you like) 
and every human before homo sapiens had only the cognitive capabilities 
to use the unary system: “Hey, I saw | deer, let's go hunt them.” 
“Oh no, I saw ||| lions, they would kill us.”


Slide-Ruler? Calculator? Hole cards?


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[XeTeX] Coloured fraction bars (vinculum) with unicode math

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

simple question: how to colour the fraction bars with unicode math?

I tried, simple as I am: \setmathfont[color=FF]{Asana Math}

Minimal Example (using Asana Math) is attached.

Nominator and Denominator are red, but the fraction isn't.


BTW: using the package color and it's commands works, but i wanted to go 
without it.


thx

Toscho

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont[Color=FF00]{Asana Math}
\begin{document}
\(\frac{1}{2}\)
\end{document}


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Re: [XeTeX] epsdice package.

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

I think, no package is needed as long as you have an appropriate font:

The die faces are located in unicode at the codepoints u+2680 to u+2685, 
so you only need to input these characters into your document or type 
\char"2680 and so on.


bye

Toscho

Am 15.07.2011 00:57, schrieb Michael Joyner:

I am trying to use the epsdice package from inside LyX, and when I
switch to using xelatex as the formatting engine, the package malfunctions.

Instead of drawing a single die, it draws all 12 possible combinations
of dice on two lines. :(

Is there a working dice or dominoes or "grouped dots" package for
xelatex ? The document I am writing is in Cherokee, so xelatex is my
only choice for font reasons.

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Re: [XeTeX] How to mix math fonts?

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 12.07.2011 14:23, schrieb Will Robertson:

On 06/07/2011, at 3:41 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:


I would like to know how I can use unicode-math package for mixing
multiple fonts. (I don't mean taking a few characters from one font
and a few symbols from the other.) I would like to display one
character from LM Math for example and the same one in XITS math next
to each other, looping over "the whole" unicode range.

I could use \setmathfont for each individual character, but then it
takes ages to compile.


Sorry for the slow reply.

Do the characters need to actually be set up for math use? For situations like 
this, I just grab the glyph directly with \char. Otherwise there's no easy way 
to do it, I think.

Can one grab an arbitrary glyph in an arbitrary font simply by \char? If 
yes, how?


bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] How to mix math fonts?

[Tobias Schoel]

Yes, in a charmap tool like babelmap, U+22D3 DOUBLE UNION and
U+22D2 DOUBLE INTERSECTION are confused (standing upside down?),
but blame STIXGeneral -- XITS just inherits the mistake.


if a student copies a wrong answer from another student, than that other 
student is to blame and the first one not at all?




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Re: [XeTeX] How to mix math fonts?

[Tobias Schoel]

For comparison only, something like this might suffice:

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\usepackage{pgffor}
\begin{document}
\begin{minipage}[t]{0.5\textwidth}
\raggedleft
\setmathfont{Asana Math}
\foreach \x in {0,...,9}%
{%
\(\x\)\\
}
\end{minipage}
\begin{minipage}[t]{0.5\textwidth}
\raggedright
\setmathfont{XITS Math}
\foreach \x in {0,...,9}%
{%
\(\x\)\\
}
\end{minipage}

\end{document}

ciao

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] How to mix math fonts?

[Tobias Schoel]

With unicode looping:

\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage[paperwidth=4cm,paperheight=112cm,textheight=110cm]{geometry}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\usepackage{pgffor}
\usepackage{pgfmath}
\pgfmathsetbasenumberlength{5}

\newcommand{\printunicoderange}[4]{%#1=range begin, #2=range end, 
#3=before code, #4=after code

\pgfmathbasetodec{\rangebegin}{#1}{16}
\pgfmathbasetodec{\rangeend}{#2}{16}
\foreach \decimalunicode in {\rangebegin,...,\rangeend}%
 {%
 \pgfmathdectoBase{\hexadecimalunicode}{\decimalunicode}{16}
 #3%
 \char"\hexadecimalunicode
 %\hexadecimalunicode
 #4
 }
}
\begin{document}

\begin{minipage}[t]{1cm}
\raggedleft
\setmathfont{Asana Math}
\printunicoderange{2200}{22ff}{$}{$\\}
\end{minipage}
\begin{minipage}[t]{1cm}
\raggedright
\setmathfont{XITS Math}
\printunicoderange{2200}{22ff}{$}{$\\}
\end{minipage}


\end{document}

Strange page geometry was necessary, because of the missing page breaks 
in the minipage environment.



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[XeTeX] Changing bold-style by \unimathsetup doesn't work

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

Setting bold-style=TeX (or any other possible value) as 
\setmathfont-option works, but changing it later with \unimathsetup 
doesn't work. As there is no \addfontfeature-command, this seems to be a 
grave issue, as the options other than literal rigorously ignore literal 
input.


This is a bug report also filed in github, but I can't attach files 
there. The files attached with this mail show the rigorous behaviour of 
bold-style.


bye Toscho

PS: It seems wrong to me, to ignore the meaning associated with the 
explicit use of unicode math alphabets. When I input "Mathematical Bold 
Italic Capital T" / \mbfitT I want that, but when I input "Mathematical 
Bold Capital T" / \mbfT I don't want it italic.


unimath_test1_iso.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont[Ligatures=TeX]{TeX Gyre Pagella}
\setmathfont[bold-style=ISO]{Asana Math}
\begin{document}
\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\end{document}


unimath_test1_literal.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont[Ligatures=TeX]{TeX Gyre Pagella}
\setmathfont[bold-style=literal]{Asana Math}
\begin{document}
\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝛑𝝅\mbfPi\mbfitPi\mathbf{\Pi}\mathbfit{\Pi}\)
\end{document}


unimath_test1_tex.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont[Ligatures=TeX]{TeX Gyre Pagella}
\setmathfont[bold-style=TeX]{Asana Math}
\begin{document}
\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝐓𝑻\mbfT\mbfitT\mathbf{T}\mathbfit{T}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝐭𝒕\mbft\mbfitt\mathbf{t}\mathbfit{t}\)

\unimathsetup{bold-style=ISO}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=TeX}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=literal}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\mathbfit{\pi}\)
\unimathsetup{bold-style=upright}\(𝚷𝜫\mbfpi\mbfitpi\mathbf{\pi}\m

Re: [XeTeX] Isomath, Mathspec and Siunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

If I understand well, there is no complete solution to my problem, yet. I should
wait until this will be fixed into Mathspec, shouldn't I?


Maybe, there is a complete solutin (at least as complete als Linux 
Libertine lets it be). In order to determine that, you should give a 
detailed specification of what you _want_. Until now, you mostly said, 
what you _did_ and what problems occured that way.


If all you want is the support of unicode math alphabets including bold 
greek letters (u1d6a8 to u1d6e1), then the unicode-math package with a 
math font supporting these glyphs (like Asana Math) seems to be a near 
complete solution.


If you want additional siunitx support (for bold greek?) within xelatex, 
it get's a little bit complicated, as siunitx's detection algorithm seem 
to not really work together with unicode-math. Using the keys mode and 
math-rm / text-rm (and associeates) together with the \fontspec or 
\mathbf etc. can most probably get you, what you want, albeit being ugly 
code.


When the exact problems are cleared, one might file a bug report / 
feature request to the siunitx maintainer Joseph Wright. (Maybe he is 
even reading this list.)


Math alphabets in Linux Libertine O might come with Open Math support 
for Linux Libertine O.


Attached you find a small analysis of trying to get bold numbers in 
Linux Libertine by siunitx.


bye

Toscho
\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage[bold-style=ISO]{unicode-math}
\setmainfont[Color=]{Linux Libertine O}
\setmathfont[Color=FFFF]{Asana Math}
\setmathfont[Color=00FF00FF,range="0030-"0039]{Linux Libertine O}
\setmathfont[Color=00FF00FF,range="1D7CE-"1D7D7]{Linux Libertine O}
\setmathfont[Color=00FF00FF,range=\mathbf]{Linux Libertine O}
\usepackage{siunitx}
\usepackage{booktabs}
\begin{document}
\begin{verbatim}
\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage[bold-style=ISO]{unicode-math}
\setmainfont[Color=]{Linux Libertine O}
\setmathfont[Color=FFFF]{Asana Math}
\setmathfont[Color=00FF00FF,range="0030-"0039]{Linux Libertine O}
\setmathfont[Color=00FF00FF,range="1D7CE-"1D7D7]{Linux Libertine O}
\setmathfont[Color=00FF00FF,range=\mathbf]{Linux Libertine O}
\usepackage{siunitx}
\usepackage{booktabs}
\begin{document}
\end{verbatim}

\begin{tabular}{l@{\quad}l}
\toprule
\verb|\LaTeX|&\LaTeX\\
\midrule
\verb|123|&123\\
\verb|\(123\)|&\(123\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\num{123}|&\num{123}\\
\verb|\(\num{123}\)|&\(\num{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\num[detect-all]{123}|&\num[detect-all]{123}\\
\verb|\(\num[detect-all]{123}\)|&\(\num[detect-all]{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\bfseries\num[detect-all]{123}|&\bfseries\num[detect-all]{123}\\
\verb|\bfseries\(\num[detect-all]{123}\)|&\bfseries\(\num[detect-all]{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\bfseries\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=text]{123}\)|&\bfseries\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=text]{123}\)\\
\verb|\bfseries\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=math]{123}\)|&\bfseries\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=math]{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=text]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=text]{123}\)\\
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=math]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-all,detect-inline-weight=math]{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math]{123}\)\\
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math]{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=text]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=text]{123}\)\\
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=text]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=text]{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}\)\\
\verb|\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}\)|&\boldmath\(\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}}\)|&\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}}\)\\
\verb|\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}}\)|&\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math,math-rm={}]{123}}\)\\
\midrule
\verb|\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math]{123}}\)|&\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=text,mode=math]{123}}\)\\
\verb|\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math]{123}}\)|&\boldmath\(\mathbf{\num[detect-inline-weight=math,mode=math]{123}}\)\\
\bottomrule
\end{tabular}
\begin{verbatim}
\end{document}
\end{verbatim}

\end{document}


small_analysis.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


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Re: [XeTeX] Isomath, Mathspec and Siunitx

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 05.07.2011 12:13, schrieb Ulrike Fischer:

Am Tue, 05 Jul 2011 12:00:17 +0200 schrieb
le.farfadet.spat...@free.fr:


I have tried it and I have then actually obtained Linux Libertine bold italic
font in mathematical environment. But, I have then lost Greek symbols. If I am
using "\setmathsfont(Digits,Latin,Greek)[Numbers={Lining, Proportional}]{Linux
Libertine O}", then I obtain an error message:

   ! LaTeX Error: Command `\Gamma' already defined.

Obviously, this is about redefining "\Gamma" macro. Of course "\setmathfont"
needs to redefine it, the question is which other package does too? Isomath, I
guess.

Also look for amsmath &co. Sometimes, simply changing the order helps.



Anyway, I would rather being able to use unicode-math.


Then do it, Asana Math works well with Linux Libertine and even more 
with TeX Gyre Pagella:


\documentclass{minimal}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setromanfont{Linux Libertine O}
\setsansfont{TeX Gyre Pagella}
\setmathfont{Asana Math}
#\setmathfont[range="0030-"0039]{Linux Libertine O} #uncomment for math 
numbers from Linux Libertine O instead of Asana Math


\begin{document}
Hallo 123 $Hallo 123$ \textsf{Hallo 123}
\end{document}



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Re: [XeTeX] Bold unit vectors

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

Unicode 6.0.0, chapter 15 
(http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ch15.pdf) reveals some 
information:


Unicode does provide \imath and \jmath symbols (u+1d6a4 und u+1d6a5), 
but these are part of the regular, italic Latin math alphabet, so any 
markup such as \mathbf will be lost on them. [In difference to the usual 
TeX-behavior of \imath and \jmath]


But Unicode also specifies, that \imath and \jmath need not be used in 
simple cases, since \hat i should yield a dotless i with a circumflex on 
top. [i and j have the Soft_Dotted property]


\imath and \jmath are provided for cases, in which the \hat (or other 
diacritical marks) spans more than a single letter, such as


\widehat{a+i}=\hat a+\hat i

I still don't understand, why this equation couldn't possibly be bold, 
but Unicode only provides for regular italic.


So in your case, \mathbf{\hat i}, \hat\mathbf{i} (with unicode-math) or 
\hat 𝒊  [u+1d48a] should yield the desired result, but it doesn't (at 
least with me).


bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Bold unit vectors

[Tobias Schoel]

Yes, it seems as if Asana doesn't support \imath / U+0131 in Bold.

The \hat shouldn't be printed bold, as it wouldn't look good and the 
bold/regular difference wouldn't carry meaning.


Am 01.07.2011 14:22, schrieb Nicholas Oettle:

I'm trying to print bold unit vectors in Asana Math. I would like the 'i' to be 
bold, italic and with a hat on top.

It appears to be an issue with the \imath symbol, as shown in the minimal 
example below. In addition, I'm not sure whether the hat should be bold when 
used with the \mathbf command (I think it should be).

Perhaps a workaround would be to use non-unicode, non Asana with the AMS 
packages just for the unit vectors i, j and k, however I'm unsure how to 'undo' 
the unicode and Asana packages temporarily:

$\boldsymbol{\hat{\imath}}$

Any help or workarounds would be appreciated!

Nicholas


%!TEX TS-program = xelatex
%!TEX encoding = UTF-8 Unicode
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec,xltxtra,xunicode}
\defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text}
\usepackage[bold-style=ISO]{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{Asana Math}

\begin{document}

These work as expected:
$i$, $\mathbf{i}$, $\hat{\imath}$

\ldots whereas these don't:
$\mathbf{\imath}$
$\mathbf{\hat{\imath}}$

\ldots and I'm unsure if the hat should be bold here (which it isn't):
$\mathbf{\hat{e}}$

\end{document}


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Re: [XeTeX] changing font for numbers in math mode?

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

that is done by the range key in the \setmathfont-command from the 
unicode-math package. (At least, if I have understood the documentation 
of unicode-math correctly.)


bye

Toscho

Am 26.06.2011 15:34, schrieb Ernest Adrogué:

Hi there,

I was doing some tests with various math font packages
such as fourier, mathdesign, txfonts, etc., and I realised
that these packages could also be used with other text fonts
other than the fonts they were intended to be used with.

For example, mathdesign uses math symbols (italics and greek
letters) from Charter, which wouldn't look bad with Charis SIL,
given that Charis SIL itself is derived from Charter. The
problem is that if you try to use Charis SIL with
mathdesign/charter, the numbers in math mode are from Charter
and do not match the numbers that are not typeset in math mode,
the result being totally horrible.

So I was wondering if it is possible to change the font only
for numbers in math mode, while leaving everything else
unchanged. The command \setmathrm doesn't seem to do anything.

Cheers,



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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,


Well yes, but then s/he has to be prepared to use appropriate translation 
methods to get what is wanted from what is supplied, but the author and browser 
software.


That is a standard problem: It'd be most efficient, if the author 
supplied one language and the user could reliably translate it by 
electronic means into the desired language. Unfortunately, translating 
is a hard problem of IT, so the quality is best, if the author or other 
translaters do that job.




The best that can be expected is that unusual representations of data be tagged 
as such, so that software has a chance to recognise that it may not be as 
straight-forward as just the letter content might suggest.
Unfortunately (again), not everybody has a google center at service, 
which can effectively detect these representations and find alternatives 
automatically.


 Then attributes to the tags can supply alternative representations, if 
the author has sufficient forethought to predict that someone might want 
to use these. But there should be no obligation to have done so, as an 
author cannot be expected to predict all the possible uses that someone 
may make of his/her written ideas.


Maybe my use of "should" was wrong (my mother tongue is German): I 
didn't mean it as an obligation but as a necessary mean for rich 
communication. Both sides have a mutual interest in as rich a 
communication as possible, at least in noncommercial settings.


Thus we are led to appreciate the need for Tagged PDF.


That's the least variant. I could think of even richer ways of 
communicating. E.g. wiki-pages with professional typography.







If you want them to get  "Louis XIV"  then no /ActualText is required.
*unless* that X I and V are really: U+2169 U+2160 U+2164 .
In that case you may want the /ActualText  to replace with "XIV" so that
your readers don't end up with the undefined character symbol.

As Unicode says: these Codepoints are deprecated. So the letters XIV should be 
prefered. (And I'd still say, that the number 14 is preferable.)


Deprecation is a curious thing.
At what level should it be implemented or imposed?

Should TeX stop an author from using these symbols?
If they do get into a PDF, should the browser refuse to display them, 
substituting something else?
Or if a reader does a Copy/Paste, should either the copying or pasting 
application offer to make a substitution?

I'd answer  No, No, Perhaps  to these questions, otherwise it becomes 
impossible to even put into print that the specific characters should no longer 
be used.

Of course not. Why should any application do this? I mostly read these 
standards positively. As long as no alternatives exist, deprecation is 
no issue.




So one might want a package, which offers a macro \romannumeral{14}, which 
produces the glyphs (intended to be used by the font author) and adds 
appropriate PDF-specials whose content is based on the active language. At 
least, it should offer option keys to set these contents by hand e.g.

Louis \romannumeral[screenreader="katorze",replacement_text="quatorze", 
use_font_symbols]{14}


Someone would define a macro  \LouisXIV  to expand to this kind of thing.
An author just puts the macro into his/her LaTeX (or ConTeXt) source.


I don't like to put such code into my documents, as I regard the problem 
as more general demanding a more general solution. Till then, I'll have 
to accept it.



There is a lot more for authors and macro-writers to think about and use.
Yes, the intention is to much more effectively convey meaning within electronic 
documents.

And authoring tools should help doing it.



BTW, if you have Acrobat Pro 10, then I can show you some PDFs with fully 
tagged, quite complicated mathematical formulas. You'll need the Pro version of 
the browser to be able to see the tagging, and extract the content as XML 
incorporating MathML. No other software can do this yet, to my knowledge — 
oops, not true: the MathPlayer plugin to Adobe Reader should be able to do it 
also.
Copy/Paste from these PDFs gets all the correct math symbols — using Plane 1 
alphanumerics, where appropriate — but cannot sensibly position superscripts, 
subscripts, fractions, etc.


I use Ubuntu 11.04 with evince and on occasion Adobe Reader 9 for that 
OS. So no Adobe Reader 10 or anything "Pro" from Adobe.




Maybe in a year or so, when TeX support for Tagged PDF has become more mature.
At present it is very much experimental.


I have a lot of tea.

bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Loading fonts from a common server or http URL

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi


In my opinion, this is the way of the future. It is ludicrous
that we all have to create our own virtual CTAN mirrors. Far
better to evolve a methodology that will, entirely transparently,
use a local copy as first choice; fetch (via http) a remote copy
and make it local, as second choice; and (3) offer a configuration
option to check whether the remote copy is more recent than the
local and if so, fetch it (and install it locally) automatically
when that file is next required.


I thought, MikTeX offers that: whenever a package is loaded, that is not 
already installed, it is downloaded on the fly and then loaded. I'm not 
sure about the version check, but it's not always advisable to use the 
latest version of a package.


bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,


Other viewers don't understand this, as expected. I still feel that it's quite 
useless:
if I find "Louis XIV" I may want to copy it and get the real name, not "Louis 
14".


Sure.
It is your job as author to decide what your readers should get.


And it's the users right to use what he gets as he wants. So the author 
should deliver a product that is easy and variable to use.



If you want them to get  "Louis XIV"  then no /ActualText is required.
*unless* that X I and V are really: U+2169 U+2160 U+2164 .
In that case you may want the /ActualText  to replace with "XIV" so that
your readers don't end up with the undefined character symbol.
As Unicode says: these Codepoints are deprecated. So the letters XIV 
should be prefered. (And I'd still say, that the number 14 is preferable.)


Or maybe you want them to get  "Louis quatorze".
Probably you do want a screen reader to say "Louis quatorze",
but then you'll want to test that AR reads it correctly
--- maybe  /Alt(Louie katorze)  will be better.


Indeed there should be different substitutions depending on the purpose. 
At least arabic numerals (for numerical use as in spreadsheets), letters 
(for text use as copypasting to text documents) and screenreader text 
(for screenreader use) are important. Next to that are different 
languages. (I don't know about the English way in reading theses names, 
but in German contexts they are mostly read in German and partly read in 
the source language: So "Ludwig der Vierzehnte" or "Louis quatorze")


So one might want a package, which offers a macro \romannumeral{14}, 
which produces the glyphs (intended to be used by the font author) and 
adds appropriate PDF-specials whose content is based on the active 
language. At least, it should offer option keys to set these contents by 
hand e.g.


Louis \romannumeral[screenreader="katorze",replacement_text="quatorze", 
use_font_symbols]{14}



This kind of stuff adds a whole new dimension to typesetting.


No, it simply allows the first and foremost dimension of typesetting to 
use the capabilities of modern media: to ease convey the meaning without 
distracting the user.


ciao

Toscho

PS: I can't do it myself but would appreciate it a lot, if someone could 
create such a package.



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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

Have you seen in your life analog watches? (Did you manage to notice the
shape of numbers on the clock-face? I remember having seen a wrist watch
with Roman numerals – in a joke!) Have you noticed how different the
writing of dates can be? (And what is the number of known months?)


Understood. Haven't thought about watches. Are months written with roman 
numerals? Never seen that. (But I also don't understand, why the 
standard /MM/DD resp. -MM-DD isn't.)



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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

Am 20.06.2011 00:03, schrieb Peter Baker:

It seems to me (having worked with OpenType fonts for some years) that
while it might be possible to make an Arabic-->Roman converter at the
font level, that's going to be one of the most inefficient possible ways
to handle it.


Then why is Unicode proposing / imposing it that way?

 With OT you can make a set of rules that says


Here's a 1 followed by two digits; substitute a C;
Here's a 2 followed by one digit; substitute XX
Here's a 3 followed by a something other than a digit; substitute III.

But it can't understand numbers the way a programming language can do.


Does it have to? I thought arabic->roman to merely be a (somewhat 
complex) substitution of glyphs.



If you want to be able to write XC for 90, the task gets somewhat more
complex, because OT definitely can't say

For a number in the range 90-99, do the following . . .


9 followed by  one digit: substitute XC
9 followed by two digits: substitute CM
9 followed by something other than a digit: IX
(9 followed by three digits: M)



Surely a programmatic solution would be better; and (La)TeX has an
understanding of roman numbers built in. With a little Googling I was
able to come up with this file, which works:

%&program=xelatex
%&encoding=UTF-8 Unicode

\documentclass[11pt,letterpaper,twoside,openany]{book}

\usepackage{fontspec}

\makeatletter
\newcommand{\rmnum}[1]{\romannumeral #1}
\newcommand{\Rmnum}[1]{\expandafter\@slowromancap\romannumeral #1@}
\makeatother

\begin{document}

There are \rmnum{123}\ fish in the sea.

And there are \Rmnum{5123}\ leaves on the tree.

\end{document}
That one uses letters to represent roman numerals. As was said before, 
that's not my intention, as roman numerals have a different meaning than 
letters.


But thanks for the macro recommendation. Until now, I only knew of 
\roman{counter}.



bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

there are some commercial fonts which claim to have a arabic->roman 
feature (may be reduced to the numbers up to 5000 or so) e.g. P22 
Operina Pro.


Btw: Arabic->Roman is probably much easier to implement than the 
inverse. I don't know font details, but from what I have read, it could 
be as simple as


sub one ? ?? ??? by one.M ? ?? ???
...
sub five ? by five.L

where the ? are wildcards (do these exist?)




What the OP wants is that "CXV" is stored as a unique glyph representing 115.
Am I the OP? (I don't know that abbreviation and therefore I am 
confused.) But this question is interesting:


Roman Numerals derive from a alphabetic writing system and thus are 
"words" consisting of single "letters" with a meaning based on its 
identity and position. But nowadays, they are more often read as 
logograms. That's presumably the reason, why Unicode has codepoints for 
the roman numerals from 1 to 12 (why 12?).
So should CXV be stored as an ideogram for 115 or composed of three 
glyphs 1.C, 1.X and 5.V?



In the PDF ISO standard, you have the option of using /ActualText tagging.
The PDF would contain a portion of the page contents stream, such as:

   /Span<>BMC  (graphics to position and produce
the letters 'C' 'X' and 'V' ) ... EMC

Now *any* attempt to select any portion of the visible string "CXV"
is supposed to result in the whole string being included when copying.


That seems to be a good solution for pdf-targets. Copypasting parts of 
words is mostly senseless or wrong, so this shouldn't be a problem. I 
can't think of an example with a non-pdf-target in which I use roman 
numerals. But someone else might. Then, the discussion should be moved.


The problem is that not all PDF browsers are fully conformant, so this
behaviour may not be what you actually get with a particular piece of
software.  (BTW, Apple is one of the biggest offenders.)


That's the non-conformat PDF browsers fault and I don't give a damn 
about Apple. The only time I care about writing apple with a capital A 
is at the beginning of a sentence. (Pun intended.)



Note that ISO PDF also has an alternative method of tagging.
E.g.
 /Span<>BMC  EMC
Screen-readng software is meant to use the /Alt tagging.

And both /Alt and /ActualText allow multiple values having been preceded
by a /Lang tag, so that the actual vocalization generated by the
screen-reader can be adjusted for different languages --- the document
author normally would provide this, but a sophisticated PDF browser
plug-in might be programmed to produce a translation on-the-fly.



What exactly is the intention of the /Alt tagging?


Actually, Roman numerals are mostly used when the numerical information is
almost irrelevant as such. Nobody uses the "XIV" in "Louis XIV" to perform
calculations. That's just a different way of writing "quatorze".


Right. So /ActualText tagging can support this distinction in meaning.
It is *not* intended to support calculations --- that is the domain
of "Content Tagging" using MathML.


As nearly all roman numerals used in pratice are in the range up to 
5000, no on-the-fly calculation should be needed. That can be done by 
the producing software.






I see it just as the ability to copy "quatorze" from a text and paste it into a
worksheet cell accepting numbers to get 14. In the case of Roman numerals
it may be simpler, of course. But is it useful?


Most certainly it is useful.
It is part of the way of the future for smart PDF documents.


Exactly. It is a different representation form of numbers not the actual 
letters. It doesn't matter, when the pdf is only intended to be printed, 
but for electronic use, it does matter.


bye

Toscho


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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

hi,

that's a good answer. is there such an opentype feature / fonts 
supporting it?


bye

Toscho

Am 19.06.2011 15:33, schrieb msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2011, Tobias Schoel wrote:

if I understand correctly, that way the output still shows the letters or the
deprecated unicode codepoints. It should be analog to medieval / lowercase
numbers. E.g. it's still the number 123 it only uses different glyphs. So when
I copypaste it, it shows the number 123 and not cxxiii.


I think the only plausible way for that to happen would be for it to be a
feature of the font, specifically a type of ligature substitution that
replaces the numeral glyphs with appropriate other glyphs while naming
them such that reader software can determine the original sequence of code
points.  If it's built into the font as an OpenType feature, then you
could turn it on with fontspec.  But it would be a feature of the font,
not a feature of fontspec; wanting fontspec to do it in a font that
doesn't have such a feature built in would make about as much sense as
wanting a fontspec feature to enable Tamil script in a font that only
contains Latin glyphs.



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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

if I understand correctly, that way the output still shows the letters 
or the deprecated unicode codepoints. It should be analog to medieval / 
lowercase numbers. E.g. it's still the number 123 it only uses different 
glyphs. So when I copypaste it, it shows the number 123 and not cxxiii.


This could be a very complex procedure, if applied to arbitrary numbers, 
but most times it can be reduced to low numbers.


Another idea:

the macro \roman{counter} does the complicated part of the job. Could 
one use the result of that macro (letters) and transform them to the 
desired output?


bye

Toscho

Am 18.06.2011 21:43, schrieb enrico.grego...@univr.it:

Hi,

you totally misunderstood my intentions. I don't want to use
neither Ⅰ,  Ⅱ, Ⅲ, Ⅳ, … (u2160-u217f) nor I, II, III, IV, … (letters). I want
to use
something along "Henri {\fontchangingcommand 4} was a foobar king."

Is \fontspec capable of doing this?


Of course not, or maybe yes, but limited to numbers from 1 up to 12,
via a proper mapping file. However, with the macros I gave you before,
you can define

\makeatletter
\newcommand\ordinal[1]{\@UniRoman{#1}}
\makeatother

and write "Henri~\ordinal{4}". The tilde is for avoiding a line break. This will
use the character corresponding to the number, if in the range 1–12, otherwise
the number will be constructed from the Roman numerals.

Ciao
Enrico

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8027937
enrico.grego...@univr.it + Università degli Studi di Verona +
(grego...@math.unipd.it) + Strada le Grazie 15 / I-37134 Verona + Fax: +39 045 
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Re: [XeTeX] Roman Numerals as stylistic alternatives

[Tobias Schoel]

Hi,

you totally misunderstood my intentions. I don't want to use neither Ⅰ, 
Ⅱ, Ⅲ, Ⅳ, … (u2160-u217f) nor I, II, III, IV, … (letters). I want to use 
something along "Henri {\fontchangingcommand 4} was a foobar king."


Is \fontspec capable of doing this?

bye

Toscho

Am 18.06.2011 12:51, schrieb enrico.grego...@univr.it:

Hi,

what is the preferred way of producing roman numerals as stylistic
alternatives (while still inputing arabic numerals)?  Unicode says, that
using the codepoints for roman numerals is deprecated and it seems fair
to me, as the meaning is the same.

\romand{} works of course, but that will probably
use letters.


You can try this:


%%% XeTeX code starts
\makeatletter
\def\UniRoman#1{\expandafter\@UniRoman\csname c@#1\endcsname}
\def\uniroman#1{\expandafter\@uniroman\csname c@#1\endcsname}

\def\@UniRoman#1{\ifcase#1\or
   Ⅰ\or Ⅱ\or Ⅲ\or Ⅳ\or Ⅴ\or Ⅵ\or Ⅶ\or Ⅷ\or Ⅸ\or Ⅹ\or Ⅺ\or Ⅻ\else
   \expandafter\@slowUniRoman\romannumeral #1@\fi}
\def\@slowUniRoman#1{\ifx @#1% then terminate
  \else
\if i#1Ⅰ\else\if v#1Ⅴ\else\if x#1Ⅹ\else\if
l#1Ⅼ\else\if c#1Ⅽ\else\if d#1Ⅾ\else \if
m#1Ⅿ\else#1\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi
\expandafter\@slowUniRoman
  \fi
}
\def\@uniroman#1{\ifcase#1\or
   ⅰ\or ⅱ\or ⅲ\or ⅳ\or ⅴ\or ⅵ\or ⅶ\or ⅷ\or ⅸ\or ⅹ\or ⅺ\or ⅻ\else
   \expandafter\@slowuniroman\romannumeral #1@\fi}
\def\@slowuniroman#1{\ifx @#1% then terminate
  \else
\if i#1ⅰ\else\if v#1ⅴ\else\if x#1ⅹ\else\if
l#1ⅼ\else\if c#1ⅽ\else\if d#1ⅾ\else \if
m#1ⅿ\else#1\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi
\expandafter\@slowuniroman
  \fi
}
\makeatother

\newcounter{cnta}
\renewcommand{\thecnta}{\uniroman{cnta}} % lowercase Roman numerals
\newcounter{cntb}
\renewcommand{\thecnta}{\UniRoman{cntb}} % uppercase Roman numerals
%%% XeTeX code ends

Since Unicode defines numerals from 1 to 12, I use those when the counter's 
value is in that range; otherwise I mimick the procedure for getting uppercase 
Roman numerals of the LaTeX kernel.

Ciao
Enrico

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(grego...@math.unipd.it) + Strada le Grazie 15 / I-37134 Verona + Fax: +39 045 
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