they should hold it. And discharge as well as
charge will cause them to heat.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 5:25 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Yeah... for on-grid backup power, running heaters shouldn't be
, 2023 5:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Yeah... for on-grid backup power, running heaters shouldn't be a big problem,
but off-grid is a different animal. Warming the batteries up enough to charge
could take a lot of power.
All the li
battery charged or partially charged faster than the charging
> > profiles required for lead acid or AGM batteries.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Brian Webster
> >
> > *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> > *Sent:* Thursday
e at low temps either.
>>>>
>>>> Lead acid work at low temps but if they get too far discharged they
>>>> will freeze. Gates Cyclons were advertised to be able to be fully charged
>>>> and discharged when frozen.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* M
-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 4:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Yeah, temperature is the main problem I'm seeing with going to lithiums.
I can throw an SLA battery in an unheated box at our
I just wish Will Prowse would start doing heater reviews on LFP
batteries, but he's in Vegas and that's the last thing on his mind. But
it's critical for everyone north of Lat 36
On 8/17/23 13:07, TJ Trout wrote:
Don't buy 12v lifepo4 batteries for series use, it's much better to buy
a 24
t too far discharged they will
>>> freeze. Gates Cyclons were advertised to be able to be fully charged and
>>> discharged when frozen.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:13 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users G
Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
The temp issue as I understand it is the low temp disconnect when charge so as
not to try and charge when the batteries are too cold. The LiTime batteries now
have low temp disconnect in their internal battery BMS. Their prices are very
tised to be able to be fully charged and
>> discharged when frozen.
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:13 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>>
>> Yeah, temperature is
charging profiles required for lead acid or AGM batteries.
Thank you,
Brian Webster
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 4:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Yeah
charged they will
> freeze. Gates Cyclons were advertised to be able to be fully charged and
> discharged when frozen.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:13 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
&g
when frozen.
From: Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Yeah, temperature is the main problem I'm seeing with going to lithiums. I can
throw an SLA battery in an unheated box at our tower
, 2023 2:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Way cheaper to use lifepo4 now than using telecom lead acid if you look at the
whole picture
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 1:03 PM Mathew Howard wrote:
LiFePO4. There are a few different ways you can go
ed (a number of years ago), it was around 5x the $/Wh to
> buy Lithium.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF *On Behalf
> Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:51 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
: AF On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
LiFePO4. There are a few different ways you can go with that though. You can
get something like these: https://www.18650batterystore.com/products
*Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:51 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, right. It doesn't scale well, because battery costs and space
>> requirements
:51 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Well, right. It doesn't scale well, because battery costs and space
requirements will quickly become a problem. Batteries don't last
forever, so you have to factor in replacement costs too, which wi
On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:51 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, right. It doesn't scale well, because battery costs and space
>
buy Lithium.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:51 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> Well, right. It doesn't scale well, because batt
ailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
I'm at about the same latitude as you. My experience is that having extra
battery capacity is more helpful than oversizing the solar panels, so I'd
probably go with Chuck's numbers for batteries if I was
ffs
> you.
>
> You do your thing your way, no judgement. If it’s working for you then
> it’s good, but I can’t see myself going that direction.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 16
working for you then
it’s good, but I can’t see myself going that direction.
-Adam
*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2023 5:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
I'm at about the same latitude as yo
winter, I think I would mount a set of extra panels
upside down over a white reflecting surface.
-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
When not buried in a historic snow load or
egrees north of Salt Lake City. 42N
What’s your latitude?
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 4:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Y
to deice at airports and while airborne. They
didn’t care.
I fully expected it once I found he had posted the photos. He loved attention.
From: Robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 3:09 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
We are at 39 _but_ the snowfall
I presume they are more expensive? Is the watts per square foot the same?
-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 3:00 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Or just get bifacials... The can do that and the incoming solar from
the
Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Yeah, that's what I'd do in a difficult to access location. I did a
site like that here (Wisconsin) with 200 watts of panel (I think the
actual load is around 15 watts, so a bit more than 10x), and ~4kwh of
battery. It had some issues in J
t’s your latitude?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2023 4:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> Yeah, that's what I'd do in a difficult to access loc
think I would mount a set of extra panels
upside down over a white reflecting surface.
-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
When not buried in a historic snow load or positioned
and it will never go down in the winter. At my Utah latitude on top of
Utah mountains.
From: Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:07 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
It depends on how much stuff you're trying
mount a set of extra panels upside
down over a white reflecting surface.
-Original Message-
From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
When not buried in a historic snow load or positioned correctly so that
will never go down in the winter. At my Utah latitude on top
> of Utah mountains.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:07 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
> It depends on how much stu
mountains.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:07 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
It depends on how much stuff you're trying to run. A minimal micropop
can be done with less than 20 watts of load (single AP and backhau
Plus enclosures, mounts, charge controllers.
$2500 and it will never go down in the winter. At my Utah latitude on top of
Utah mountains.
From: Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:07 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
It depends on
>
>
>
> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:27 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our own
> po
Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
The term that got us cheap power was "unmetered CATV power supply".
They allow connection of a fixed capacity power supply unit with no meter, just
a small disconnect and drop a 120V 10AWG service and bill us based on half of
the power sup
2023 at 3:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Some places have what is called a “street light tariff” that is about as low
> as you can get.
>
>
>
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:38 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 2:36 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
You can use 9dot and do your power control, dc in on solar panels 48
volt system.. Just
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
From: Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 2:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
You can use 9dot and do your power control, dc in on solar panels 48 volt
wercoverage.com
From: AF On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 11:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
OMG get meters. The panels and batteries will cost more up front and they
won't last as long. Solar sucks here in Ohio, i
st savings isn’t going to work out.
-Adam
*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:27 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our
own poles). We ar
Some places have what is called a “street light tariff” that is about as low as
you can get.
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:38 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
I can save you the suspense. If you h
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our own poles).
We are losing a grain elevator site because they decommissioned the elevator
and theres no real options for the customers in some of the areas. Im just
trying to get to
Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
>> dmmoff...@gmail.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
.
From: Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 8:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our own poles).
We are losing a grain elevator site because they decommissioned the
, 2023 4:59 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
*You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end of capacity.
Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the battery. I
realized that sentence might have been ambiguous.
o:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> *You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end *of capacity*.
>
> Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the battery. I
> realized that sentence might
ster
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
> dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> *You’re ar
dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
*You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end of capacity.
Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the battery. I
rea
Users Group'
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
You can do the whole thing in Watts.
12V * 150ah = 1800 Watt-hours
1800Wh / 50W = 36 hours
If they’re telling me 95% efficiency, I’d assume 50W out needs 53W in (50 /
0.95).
There’s usually an efficiency curve for the de
for 12 hours runtime. When my batteries are halfway
toasted I’m still getting useful life out of them.
From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 9:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Just trying to cipher runtimes
I
Just trying to cipher runtimes
I have on hand 150ah 12 volt batteries, so thats what id be looking to use.
Excluding the conversion loss of a 12v to 48v step up converter is the math
correct here?
12v 150ah=1800 watt hours
1800 watt hours at 48v = 37.5ah
50 watts of radio running 48v = 1.04 amps
37
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