Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Rob Freeman
Quan, Lots of words. None of which mean anything to me... OK "soft-systems ontology" turns up something: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_systems_methodology This British guy Checkland wrote some books on management techniques. Some kind of "seven step" process: 1) Enter situation in which

Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Rob Freeman
No, I don't believe I am talking about PCA. But anyway, you are unable to demonstrate how you implement PCA or anything else, because your algorithm is "far from complete". You are unable to apply your conception of the problem to my simple example of re-ordering a set. How about PCA itself? If

Re: [agi] AGI I predict will come at the end of 2026

2024-06-23 Thread immortal . discoveries
Note to my own opening post: Humans can't dream and hold a game in their head, we rely on computers to store all their thousands of items where they were left or start and how they work perfectly. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Boris Kazachenko
> What I mean by contradiction is different orderings of an entire set of data, not points of contrast within a set of data That's not what people usually mean by contradiction, definitely not in a general sense. You are talking about reframing dataset (subset) of multivariate items along the

Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Quan Tesla
Rob. I'm referring to contextualization as general context management within complex systems management. As an ontology. The application of which has relevance for knowledge graphs, LLMs, and other knowledge-based representations. Your quotation: "Contextualization ... in LLM systemic

Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Rob Freeman
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 11:05 PM Boris Kazachenko wrote: > > There can be variance on any level of abstraction, be that between pixels or > between philosopical categories. And it could be in terms of any property / > attribute of compared elements / clusters / concepts: all these are derived

Re: [agi] GPT-4 passes the Turing test

2024-06-23 Thread John Rose
On Thursday, June 20, 2024, at 10:36 PM, immortal.discoveries wrote: > Consciousness can be seen as goal creation/ learning/ changing. Or what you > might be asking is to have them do long horizon tasks, and solve very tricky > puzzles. I think all that will happen and needs to happen. This

Re: [agi] AGI I predict will come at the end of 2026

2024-06-23 Thread Matt Mahoney
On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 1:20 AM wrote: > > @Matt what year do you expect AGI? (which I classify as something that works on AI on its own but much faster due to having many copied clones and being a computer) Every time you start a ChatGPT session, it creates a new copy so your data doesn't leak

Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Boris Kazachenko
There can be variance on any level of abstraction, be that between pixels or between philosopical categories. And it could be in terms of any property / attribute of compared elements / clusters / concepts: all these are derived by lower-order comparisons. None of that falls from the sky, other

Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Rob Freeman
There were 5 or 6 totally mis-interpretations of my words in there, Boris. Mis-interpretations of my words was almost the whole content of your argument. I'll limit myself to the most important mis-interpretation below. On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 7:10 PM Boris Kazachenko wrote: > ... > Starting

Re: [agi] Can symbolic approach entirely replace NN approach?

2024-06-23 Thread Boris Kazachenko
Rob, a lot of your disagreements stem from your language-first mindset. Which is perverse, you must agree that the language is a product of basic cognitive ability, possed by all mammals. Starting from your "contradiction": that's simply a linguistic equivalent of my variance.  I have no idea