Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses

On 10/20/07, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [most of post snipped and agreed with] > Without a number, you could argue that the vast majority of synapses store > subconscious (non recallable) memories. But I can still argue otherwise. > Humans are not significantly superior to other larg

Re: Bogus Threat Title[ WAS Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

> > And you are also not above making patronizing remarks in which you > implicitly refer to someone as behaving in a "simian" -- i.e. > monkey-like manner. Hey, I'm a monkey too -- and I'm pretty tired of being one. Let's bring on the Singularity already!!! > > If you read the paper I just wr

Re: Bogus Threat Title[ WAS Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

Benjamin Goertzel wrote: It took me at least five years of struggle to get to the point where I could start to have the confidence to call a spade a spade, and dismiss stuff that looked like rubbish. Now, you say "we have to forgive academics" for doing this? The hell we do

Re: Bogus Threat Title[ WAS Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

> > > It took me at least five years of struggle to get to the point where I > could start to have the confidence to call a spade a spade, and dismiss > stuff that looked like rubbish. > > Now, you say "we have to forgive academics" for doing this? The hell we > do. > > If I see garbage being pedd

Re: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

On Oct 21, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Richard Loosemore wrote: It took me at least five years of struggle to get to the point where I could start to have the confidence to call a spade a spade It still looks like a shovel to me. Cheers, J. Andrew Rogers - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http

Re: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

Edward W. Porter wrote: As Ben suggests, clearly Granger’s title claims to much. At best the article suggests what may be some important aspects of the computational architecture of the human brain, not anything approaching a complete instruction set. But as I implied in my last post to Rich

Re: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

Edward, I was not criticising you or your opinion of Granger's paper, but only pointing out that the paper itself had two sides to it: a neuroscience side (which appeared detailed and well-researched, as far as I could tell) and a cognitive side (which consisted of a few sentences of handwa

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

On 10/21/07, Pei Wang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The difference between NARS and PLN has much more to do with their > different semantics, than with their different logical/algebraic > formalism. Sure; in both cases, the algebraic structure of the rules and the truth-value formulas follow fro

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Wow! So that implies that the number of cell assemblies can be 5 times the number of neurons (i.e., X) in you prior post.. What was the equivalent of M in your prior post, the 100 figure given below. What was the fanout F. If the stable patterns of behaviors involved different sub-populations of

RE: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

As Ben suggests, clearly Granger’s title claims to much. At best the article suggests what may be some important aspects of the computational architecture of the human brain, not anything approaching a complete instruction set. But as I implied in my last post to Richard Loosemore, you have to

Re: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

> > > The questions you ask are not worth asking, because you cannot do > anything with a 'theory' (Granger's) that consists of a bunch of vague > assertions about various outdated, broken cognitive ideas, asserted > without justification. > > > Richard Loosemore > Richard, you haven't convinced

Re: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

Benjamin Goertzel wrote: Loosemore wrote: Edward If I were you, I would not get too excited about this paper, nor others of this sort (see, e.g. Granger's other general brain-engineering paper at http://www.dartmouth.edu/~rhg/pubs/RHGai50.pdf). This kind of research come

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Edward, Did you read Izhikevich's papers (specifically, [1])? They explore the model of polychronization, where cell assemblies are formed in different ways depending on temporal shifts of firings of neurons that initiate assembly's formation. He has some experimental estimations, but they are dra

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

The difference between NARS and PLN has much more to do with their different semantics, than with their different logical/algebraic formalism. For example, according to the semantics of NARS, Bayes rule, with all of its variants, is deduction. Therefore it is impossible to use on induction/abducti

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

On 10/21/07, Vladimir Nesov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Pei, > > Sorry for delayed reply. I answer point-by-point below. > > On 10/11/07, Pei Wang < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Basic rule for evidence-based > > > estimation of implication in NARS seems to be roughly along the lines > > > o

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Vladmir, I think a very important issue, ist the one about how much you can multiplex the number of cell assemblies a neuron is in. If X is the total number of neurons, and M is the number of neurons in a cell assembly, as in one of your earlier posts, and you assume even distribution of connecti

RE: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

Richard, I was not citing this article as God’s truth, but as an extremely interesting hypotheses that seems to have backing in brain science. But to be fair I gave no clear indication of that. I have read enough papers attempting to assign various cognitive functions to various parts of the br

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

On 10/21/07, Edward W. Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vladimir, > > > > Yes, if a concept is defined by its associations, and if a significant > subset of them somewhat distinguish a concept, it would seem only natural > that links between associations of nodes A and node could help the two

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Ben:Furthermore, it seems to be the case that the brain stores a lot of detail about some things that it sees -- and much less about others. For instance, it's famous that when observing a visual scene, a person can generally remember only around 7 visual facts about it. Trained observers can

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses

On 10/21/07, Edward W. Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vladimir, > > Yes, the deleted point "FIVE" mentioned that I had assumed (perhaps > incorrectly) that Valiant was looking for enough interconnect to do > traditinal Hebbian learning, which as normally defined would require > synapses fro

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

About NARS... Nesov/Wang dialogued: > Why do you need so many rules? > > > > I didn't expect so many rules myself at the beginning. I add new rules > > only when the existing ones are not enough for a situation. It will be > > great if someone can find a simpler design. > > > I feel that some of

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

Pei, Sorry for delayed reply. I answer point-by-point below. On 10/11/07, Pei Wang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Basic rule for evidence-based > > estimation of implication in NARS seems to be roughly along the lines > > of term construction in my framework (I think there's much freedom in >

Re: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

Loosemore wrote: > > Edward > > If I were you, I would not get too excited about this paper, nor others > of this sort (see, e.g. Granger's other general brain-engineering paper > at http://www.dartmouth.edu/~rhg/pubs/RHGai50.pdf). > > This kind of research comes pretty close to something that de

Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

Edward W. Porter wrote: [snip] There is a very interest paper at http://www.icsuci.edu/~granger/RHGenginesJ1s.pdf that I have referred to before on this list that states the cortico-thalmic feedback loop functions to serialize the brain's

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses

Vladimir, Yes, the deleted point "FIVE" mentioned that I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Valiant was looking for enough interconnect to do traditinal Hebbian learning, which as normally defined would require synapses from either A and/or B cell assemblies firing directly on each other. But

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses

Edward, Your reply raised very interesting issues which I'll have to think about some more. I'll also need to read Valiant's paper to get a better idea of realistic properties of the brain regarding this kind of process. So, I'll answer in more detailed way when I'm ready. For now, I have to admi

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Vladimir, Yes, if a concept is defined by its associations, and if a significant subset of them somewhat distinguish a concept, it would seem only natural that links between associations of nodes A and node could help the two concepts find each other in a large, high dimensional space. This i

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Benjamin, It's interesting that you mentioned this right now. My discussion with Edward in parallel thread effectively led to this issue. Basically, it's useful to be able to find regularities between arbitrary pair of concepts (say, A and B) that system supports (as kind of domain-independence).

Re: [agi] An AGI Test/Prize

John Rose, As a long-lapsed mathematician, I'm curious about your system, but what you've said about it so far doesn't really tell me much... Do you have a mathematical description of your system? I did some theoretical work years ago representing complex systems dynamics in terms of abstract al

Re: [agi] An AGI Test/Prize

On 10/21/07, John G. Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vladimir, > > > > That may very well be the case and something that I'm unaware of. The > system I have in mind basically has I/O that is algebraic structures. > Everything that it deals with is modeled this way. Any sort of system that > it

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

http://www.mail-archive.com/agi@v2.listbox.com/msg08026.html is where Ben Goertzel wrote stimuli evoking AGI list response. > Some semi-organized responses to points raised in this thread... > [...] > Furthermore, it seems to be the case that > the brain stores a lot of detail about some > thing

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

On 10/21/07, Edward W. Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ben, > > > > Good Post > > > > I my mind the ability to map each of N things into a model of a space is a > very valuable thing. It lets us represent all of the N^2 spatial > relationships between those N things based on just N mappings

RE: [agi] An AGI Test/Prize

Your busy and I'm busy, so we can wait for another topic before communicating next. But our communication on this topic has been interesting. Edward W. Porter Porter & Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Ben, Good Post I my mind the ability to map each of N things into a model of a space is a very valuable thing. It lets us represent all of the N^2 spatial relationships between those N things based on just N mappings. This is something we all know, but it is one of the many wonderful effici

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

Some semi-organized responses to points raised in this thread... 1) About spatial maps... It seems to be the case that the brain uses spatial maps a lot, which abstract considerably from the "territory" they represent Similarly in Novamente we have a spatial map data structure which has an adjus

Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

CH: Anyway there's low resolution, possibly unconfirmed, evidence that when we visualize images, we generate a cell activation pattern within the visual cortex that has an activation boundary approximating in shape the object being visualized. (This doesn't say anything about how the information