RE: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread John G. Rose
> -Original Message- > From: Steve Richfield [mailto:steve.richfi...@gmail.com] > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 10:09 AM, John G. Rose > wrote: > "statements of stupidity" - some of these are examples of cramming > sophisticated thoughts into simplistic compressed text. > > Definitely, as even t

RE: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread John G. Rose
> -Original Message- > From: Ian Parker [mailto:ianpark...@gmail.com] > > The Turing test is not in fact a test of intelligence, it is a test of similarity with > the human. Hence for a machine to be truly Turing it would have to make > mistakes. Now any "useful" system will be made as int

Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2

2010-08-06 Thread Abram Demski
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Abram Demski wrote: > > (Without this sort of generality, your approach seems restricted to > gathering knowledge about whatever events unfold in front of a limited > quantity of high-quality camera systems which you set up. To be honest, the > usefulness of that s

Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2

2010-08-06 Thread Abram Demski
David, Seems like a reasonable argument to me. I agree with the emphasis on acquiring knowledge. I agree that tackling language first is not the easiest path. I agree with the comments on compositionality of knowledge & the regularity of the vast majority of the environment. Vision seems like a f

Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2

2010-08-06 Thread Mike Tintner
1) You don't define the difference between narrow AI and AGI - or make clear why your approach is one and not the other 2) "Learning about the world" won't cut it - vast nos. of progs. claim they can learn about the world - what's the difference between narrow AI and AGI learning? 3) "Breakin

Re: [agi] Computer Vision not as hard as I thought!

2010-08-06 Thread David Jones
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Jim Bromer wrote: > On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Jones wrote: > *So, why computer vision? Why can't we just enter knowledge manually? > > * > a) The knowledge we require for AI to do what we want is vast and complex > and we can prove that it is completel

Re: [agi] Computer Vision not as hard as I thought!

2010-08-06 Thread Jim Bromer
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Jones wrote: *So, why computer vision? Why can't we just enter knowledge manually? *a) The knowledge we require for AI to do what we want is vast and complex and we can prove that it is completely ineffective to enter the knowledge we need manually. b) Comput

Re: [agi] Comments On My Skepticism of Solomonoff Induction

2010-08-06 Thread Abram Demski
Jim, >From the article Matt linked to, specifically see the line: "As [image: p] is itself a binary string, we can define the discrete universal a priori probability, [image: m(x)], to be the probability that the output of a universal prefix Turing machine [image: U] is [image: x]when provided wi

Re: [agi] AGI & Alife

2010-08-06 Thread Mike Tintner
This is on the surface interesting. But I'm kinda dubious about it. I'd like to know exactly what's going on - who or what (what kind of organism) is solving what kind of problem about what? The exact nature of the problem and the solution, not just a general blurb description. If you follow t

Re: [agi] AGI & Alife

2010-08-06 Thread Ian Parker
This is much more interesting in the context of Evolution than it is for the creation of AGI. Point is that all the things that have ben done would have been done (much more simply in fact) from straightforward narrow programs. However it demonstrates the early multicelluar organisms of the Pre Cam

Re: [agi] Comments On My Skepticism of Solomonoff Induction

2010-08-06 Thread Matt Mahoney
Jim, see http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Algorithmic_probability I think this answers your questions. -- Matt Mahoney, matmaho...@yahoo.com From: Jim Bromer To: agi Sent: Fri, August 6, 2010 2:18:09 PM Subject: Re: [agi] Comments On My Skepticism of Solo

Re: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread Steve Richfield
John, Congratulations, as your response was the only one that was on topic!!! On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 10:09 AM, John G. Rose wrote: > "statements of stupidity" - some of these are examples of cramming > sophisticated thoughts into simplistic compressed text. > Definitely, as even the thoughts of

Re: [agi] AGI & Alife

2010-08-06 Thread rob levy
Interesting article: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727723.700-artificial-life-forms-evolve-basic-intelligence.html?page=1 On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Jan Klauck wrote: > Ian Parker wrote > > > I would like your > > opinion on *proofs* which involve an unproven hypothesis, > > I've n

Re: [agi] Comments On My Skepticism of Solomonoff Induction

2010-08-06 Thread Jim Bromer
I meant: Did Solomonoff's original idea use randomization to determine the bits of the programs that are used to produce the *prior probabilities*? I think that the answer to that is obviously no. The randomization of the next bit would used in the test of the prior probabilities as done using a

Re: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread Ian Parker
I think that some quite important philosofical questions are raised by Steve's posting. I don't know BTW how you got it. I monitor all correspondence to the group, and I did not see it. The Turing test is not in fact a test of intelligence, it is a test of similarity with the human. Hence for a ma

Re: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread Mike Tintner
Maybe you could give me one example from the history of technology where machines "ran" before they could "walk"? Where they started complex rather than simple? Or indeed from evolution of any kind? Or indeed from human development? Where children started doing complex mental operations like lo

RE: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread John G. Rose
"statements of stupidity" - some of these are examples of cramming sophisticated thoughts into simplistic compressed text. Language is both intelligence enhancing and limiting. Human language is a protocol between agents. So there is minimalist data transfer, "I had no choice but to ..." is a compr

Re: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread Matt Mahoney
Mike Tintner wrote: > What will be the SIMPLEST thing that will mark the first sign of AGI ? - > Given >that there are zero but zero examples of AGI. Machines have already surpassed human intelligence. If you don't think so, try this IQ test. http://mattmahoney.net/iq/ Or do you prefer to def

Re: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread Steve Richfield
Mike, Your reply flies in the face of two obvious facts: 1. I have little interest in what is called AGI here. My interests lie elsewhere, e.g. uploading, Dr. Eliza, etc. I posted this piece for several reasons, as it is directly applicable to Dr. Eliza, and because it casts a shadow on future dr

Re: [agi] Comments On My Skepticism of Solomonoff Induction

2010-08-06 Thread Jim Bromer
> > Jim: So, did Solomonoff's original idea involve randomizing whether the > next bit would be a 1 or a 0 in the program? Abram: Yep. I meant, did Solomonoff's original idea involve randomizing whether the next bit in the program's that are originally used to produce the *prior probabilities* inv

Re: [agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread Mike Tintner
sTEVE:I have posted plenty about "statements of ignorance", our probable inability to comprehend what an advanced intelligence might be "thinking", What will be the SIMPLEST thing that will mark the first sign of AGI ? - Given that there are zero but zero examples of AGI. Don't you think it wo

[agi] Epiphany - Statements of Stupidity

2010-08-06 Thread Steve Richfield
To All, I have posted plenty about "statements of ignorance", our probable inability to comprehend what an advanced intelligence might be "thinking", heidenbugs, etc. I am now wrestling with a new (to me) concept that hopefully others here can shed some light on. People often say things that indi