, September 20, 2007 8:49 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
No Norm, re-read your post. It begins:
100% correct. Not partially correct, not I agree with you that change
costs
money Your statement is 100% correct. Which means you back his entire
post. Within
Scott,
I agree, it would be way to harsh to bash or fear ITIL without any
arguments. I'm not sure where this comes from, after all, ITIL is about best
practices. It's not about forcing you into some kind of strict process
model. Maybe the fear is because of the way ITIL is presented to some of
Of Hugo Visser
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:54 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
** Scott,
I agree, it would be way to harsh to bash or fear ITIL without any
arguments. I'm not sure where this comes from, after all, ITIL is about
best
Developer
Leader Communications, Inc.
405 736 3211
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hugo Visser
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:54 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld
Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:40 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Please Gary, show me where I yelled about how good
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Drew Shuller
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:48 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
I'm not disagreeing, but wasn't ITIL
!
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Steve Brown
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
New to the list so feel free to assassinate
Woah! Hold the phone! You've been fair in quoting me up until this
point.
My point is, and I'll state it again, I believe it is irresponsible
for
people to make statements about something, such as ITIL in this
instance,
that they have no proof of. Norm stated that he thought Patrick's
comments
Whether you choose to business with IT Prophets or not, is of course,
your
prerogative. I don't believe that I have treated anyone unfairly in this
process. I'm simply asking for the same proof from those that have
stated
that it does not work. Wouldn't you agree that it's only fair?
No, I
To me, this huge chasm shows me the sales person is just that -- a
sales person. The 'People in Charge' are relying on what the sales
people are telling them, and literally locking us, the ones who can
really see what is going on, out of the meetings.
BINGO!
The delete key works for me.
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Carter
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:26 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Can we
And no, I don't believe that what Norm said (as that's whose
statements I
addressed my initial post) that change and cost with no tangible
benefit is
not worth the cost. His remarks, and I'm paraphrasing, were pretty
much, I
don't believe there is any benefit to ITIL and until someone proves
)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:04 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
ITIL was around before SOX, and the two barely have anything in common.
Where SOX and ITIL overlap is in the approval
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:22 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Woah! Hold the phone! You've been fair in quoting me up until this
point.
My point is, and I'll state it again, I
: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
No Norm, re-read your post. It begins:
100% correct. Not partially correct, not I agree with you that change
costs
money Your statement is 100% correct. Which means you back his entire
post. Within that post Patrick makes the statements that I allude
(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96
CS/SCCE
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:22 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Woah! Hold the phone! You've been fair in quoting me up until this
point.
My point
System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darrell Reading
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:12 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Hypothetically, because I know that this would never happen in a company
of any size
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
No Norm, re-read your post. It begins:
100% correct. Not partially correct, not I agree with you that change
costs
money Your statement is 100% correct. Which means you back his entire
post. Within that post Patrick
counter-productive.
Thanks to all who replied, and let's just let it rest for now.
To those who are not happy with the traffic on this thread, my advice to
you is to just simply not read any more emails with the subject of RE:
OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL.
Thanks,
Gary Opela, Jr
Consulting
- Original Message
From: Scott Parrish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:48:42 AM
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
No Norm, re-read your post. It begins:
100% correct. Not partially correct, not I agree with you
Obviously this thread touched a sensitive nerve that's aching for a lot
of people.
It's kind of interesting to remember how ITIL started - the British
Government wanted to standardize the framework for IT service delivery.
Their focus was on them as a customer - How is our tax money being
spent
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Obviously this thread touched a sensitive nerve that's aching for a lot
of people.
It's kind of interesting to remember how ITIL started - the British
Government wanted to standardize the framework for IT service
want to see the
evidence.
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Rentfrow
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:15 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:17 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
**
Norm, I don't know that the value of ITIL is as much in the processes
themselves as it is in the goal of the entire company using
Sent w/o the signature this time
Common sense, simplicity and clarity rule or at least they should.
Identify the problem or need, define the solution and keep it practical,
simple, reliable, intuitive, scaleable and cheap! Buy or
build is another topic.
Part of working the solution is looking
Check out this article. I think it is about us - People resistant to
ITIL, but forced into going there.
I'm not resistant to ITIL, I guess, I just want an easier way to do it!
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic;
articleId=9037418pageNumber=1
Thanks,
Gary,
Read the remarks and find some comfort..
Change always costs money.. and More legislation does not make a better
worker...
Does anyone on the list remember Cecil Lawson ? I'll bet he is not an ITIL
fan...
The Problem is that ITIL has now be Legislated from Congress to do it that
way... Why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinger-Cohen_Act
On 9/19/07, patrick zandi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gary,
Read the remarks and find some comfort..
Change always costs money.. and More legislation does not make a better
worker...
Does anyone on the list remember Cecil Lawson ? I'll bet he is
@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
**
Gary,
Read the remarks and find some comfort..
Change always costs money.. and More legislation does not make a better
worker...
Does anyone on the list remember Cecil Lawson ? I'll bet he is not an ITIL
fan...
The Problem
I'm not disagreeing, but wasn't ITIL of an outgrowth of SOX, which
was a reaction to ENRON-like behavior? If that's the case then we're
not necessarily getting cheaper/better/more revenue but rather a
standardized accounting method?
Drew
3:48 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
I'm not disagreeing, but wasn't ITIL of an outgrowth of SOX, which
was a reaction to ENRON-like behavior? If that's the case then we're
not necessarily getting cheaper/better/more revenue but rather
System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Drew Shuller
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:48 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
I'm not disagreeing, but wasn't ITIL of an outgrowth of SOX, which
was a reaction to ENRON
or experienced yourself. SHOW ME
A CASE STUDY!
Scott Parrish
IT Prophets
Original Message:
-
From: Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:35:46 -0500
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Correct 100
point in the change process.
Norm
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:33 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:35:46 -0500
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Correct 100%. I would like to see rock-solid, irrefutable case studies
that show how implementing ITIL in a mature environment saves
: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Prove to me how it doesn't. Don't throw out the common Change costs
money. Show me the money that it costs. Prove to me where that there is
no
value. Tell me where Constant Process Improvement is a bad thing.
SHOW ME THE COSTS! Show me
IT Prophets
Original Message:
-
From: Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:35:46 -0500
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Correct 100%. I would like to see rock-solid, irrefutable case studies
discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:46 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
With all due respect, that's a fallacious argument. The burden of proof
) [mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:06 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
**
Have to agree with you, Norm. If a change to a process
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:46 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
With all due respect, that's a fallacious argument. The burden of proof is
on the person making the claim, NOT THE SKEPTIC.
If I claim, I made a jet that outperforms
Palmer
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
**
Scott slow down man ... you're shouting step away from the
caffeine. It seems this is one of those philosophical topics to bring some
spark today
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:09 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Sorry Norm, but when you stated that Patrick
-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96
CS/SCCE
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:46 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
With all due respect, that's
Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:38 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
That makes no sense.
Just because Norm thinks that Patrick is 100
discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Scott Parrish
Sent: Thu 20/09/2007 3:11 p.m.
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL
Dylan,
When Patrick says:
The problem is the overhead on a companies manpower Really
Stresses it to the Breaking Point
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