Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

On Wednesday 17 August 2005 15:41, Cory Andrews wrote: > I'm sure the hacker community regards his network as the "holy grail". > Like I said, the only folks who should be concerned with security and > intrusion detection are folks who maintain data that would be of any > interest at all to someone

[Asterisk-biz] Best hosted reseller like GO2CALL.COM??

Someone can tellme others good providers of high quality VoIP calling services for VoIP entrepreneurs?? I would like to sell VoIP service but with my own brand so who can help me with that. Start your day with Yahoo! - make

RE: [Asterisk-biz] PRI and echo cancelation ...

Weird thing is that with the latest Asterisk at Home 1.3, all my echo issues have gone. This is PSTN. Our experience is that this is variable, some PSTN have issues other sites not. Tx and Rx on the same copper pair is an issue. We are trying to get our clients to go BRI or PRI (Digital services

Re: [Asterisk-biz] USA 214 license

WE use asterisk to do class 5 features on it Does that make us have to have it? rehan > 214 is for facilities based carriers only, meaning you run internation > minutes on your own class 5 or 4 switches > > > - Original Message - > From: "Rehan Ahmed AllahWala - Super Technologies I"

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Cory Andrews wrote on Wednesday, 17 August 2005 10:25 AM: > *VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements - August 2005* > *Aastra 9112i SIP Phone* - Shipping Now! > http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=1009 > > *Aastra 9133i SIP Phone* / Dual RJ45 / 10 Line Appearances Shipping

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Matt Riddell wrote: Michael Giagnocavo wrote: The only individuals who should be concerned with encryption IMHO are: Those with something to hide or who are conduction communications or a sensitive nature. In the context of a business environment I would not necessarily want someone ridi

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

> Ariel Mónaco wrote: > > Click to enlarge, Ariel > > ?! > > Click to enlarge Ariel? Who are you and why would we want to enlarge you? Too much spam in Ariel's inbox. (couldn't resist). -- Nicolas Gudino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Asterisk-Biz mailing

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Ariel Mónaco wrote: > Click to enlarge, Ariel ?! Click to enlarge Ariel? Who are you and why would we want to enlarge you? -- Cheers, Matt Riddell ___ http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html) http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Click to enlarge, Ariel   - Original Message - From: "Alex Pui" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:14 PM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announce

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Cory, Your father-in-law might have hacked into this email list and read your classified message about him, Be warned :) Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cory Andrews Sent: August 17, 2005 12:41 PM To: Commercial and Business-Oriented

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 15:54 -0400, Jimmy Smith wrote: > #1 lesson > > most people you are talking about wont even know what wep is.. > > people that do howver understand that packet injection is a key to > getting a wep key in under 7 seconds instead of 2 weeks. > > injection is cause by pushin

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

You could always put your AP's on a separate VLAN. Utilizing a firewall block off the "Wireless" VLAN and write firewall rules to only allow those ports for SIP. If you have very sensitive data you could always put an IDS sensor on this VLAN. This would limit many risks and keep the casual war

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

>> Well, I think most people would like to hide their banking and credit >card >> information. Leaving your network open to anyone wanting to plug in just >> makes it that much easier... (Then again, its probably easier to just >send >> someone a Trojan renamed to "Coolpicsofu.exe".) > >Only proble

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Jimmy Smith wrote: WAP or die WAP = Wireless Access Point ??? Don't you mean ... WPA = Wi-Fi Protected Access ... Better Yet ... WPA2 = Wi-Fi Protected Access Version 2 -- Christopher L. Wade, CCNA, CCDA, CQS-CIPTES, CQS-CWLSS ___ Asterisk-Biz m

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Michael Giagnocavo wrote: >>The only individuals who should be concerned with encryption IMHO are: >> >>Those with something to hide or who are conduction communications or a >>sensitive nature. In the context of a business environment I would not >>necessarily want someone riding my bandwidth o

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

>Would you trust unencrypted or hackable restaurant creeditcard >merchant temrinals ? Was that sarcastic? I've *never* seen, nor even heard of, an encrypted, non-hackable, terminal at a restaurant... -Michael ___ Asterisk-Biz mailing list Asterisk-B

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

>The only individuals who should be concerned with encryption IMHO are: > >Those with something to hide or who are conduction communications or a >sensitive nature. In the context of a business environment I would not >necessarily want someone riding my bandwidth or listening in, but it's >way

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

#1 lesson most people you are talking about wont even know what wep is.. people that do howver understand that packet injection is a key to getting a wep key in under 7 seconds instead of 2 weeks. injection is cause by pushing packets on the network like you are away for the weekend so i call y

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

I don't mind the banter, but the odd trimming of responses would be appreciated please, I pay for my data by the Mb. Ta c Message: 3 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:54:26 -0400 From: "Jonathan k. Creasy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements To: "Co

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 02:33:30PM -0500, Justin McAteer wrote: > Because if you are publicly traded company in the US, the FCC requires > certain disclosure. For example, publicly traded companies must file > quartly financial statements, including a Balance Sheet and Income > Statement, with t

[Asterisk-biz] Tier1 DID numbers

Dear Alan, When we created didx we had the problem that u are facing. Wanted best quality in the cheapest price, and lowest qty. That is what was the idea behind didx to be able to do that, now we have 500+ service providers, who are offering did's from major carriers doing this. We have level

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

What if your dad was a secret agent, and YOU didn't even know? *joke* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cory Andrews Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:41 PM To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-biz]

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

That's true to a point. Again.. Remember Enron? Global Crossing? Worldcom? Hopefully Sarbanes-Oxley will change this and make being a publicly traded company a valid argument. Regards, Sean Milheim iDREUS Corporation -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECT

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Humorous Anecdote - My father in law actually paid techs from his cable internet provider to hardwire a few RJ45 drops in his house, at a cost of about $500. I offered to set up WIFI for him, but he was concerned about "hackers" accessing his "secure" network. Once breached, these hackers wou

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

You just need to input the WEP key into the handset if you are trying to access a WIFI signal that has encyption enabled on it. For the majority of users I believe WEP encryption is enough. If someone desperately wants to piggyback on my WIFI signal at home, and has the wherewithal to hack th

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

Because if you are publicly traded company in the US, the FCC requires certain disclosure. For example, publicly traded companies must file quartly financial statements, including a Balance Sheet and Income Statement, with the FCC. These documents are then made public. This provides a great dea

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

There's DECT too, some reading material here -> http://www.dectweb.com/Introduction/answers.htm Cory J Andrews Partner / Purchasing +++ VOIPSupply.com - Everything you need for VOIP 454 Sonwil Drive Buffalo, NY 14225 +++ tf voice - 800-398-VOIP X22 l voice - 716.630.1555

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Because many "average consumers" don't know it's so crackable but someone told them to make sure they have "WEP" -Jonathan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jimmy Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:23 PM To: Commercial and Business-Ori

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

also since the 64 and 128 bit Wired Equivalent Privacy (WEP) is so easily crackable by anyone over 10 years old i wonder why they chose to make wifi phones using it EX: your http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=802 UTStarCom F1000 WIFI VOIP Phone WLAN 802.11B any products out th

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

ok hehe nice go so basically its either a wifi 802.11 pure sip phone or a analog wireless tied to an analog-digital ATA converter.. right ? On 8/17/05, Jimmy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i might ask also a PURE VOIP system > > not needing an external ATA converter > > any model you can

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Yeah with any of the 802.11X phones from UTStarCom, Zyxel, Hitachi, etc, you don't need an ATA/IAD. You do need a wireless router/bridge/access point for egress out to the internet, but no ATA is need. Of the crop that is currently available, I would recommend the UTStarCom, because it is the

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

i might ask also a PURE VOIP system not needing an external ATA converter any model you can show ? On 8/17/05, Jimmy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Cory or garret .. then may i ask witch ones you use everyday... > > > > On 8/17/05, Cory Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have neve

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Jimmy - I spend all day chained to my desk, no need for a wireless phone in the office. In my home office I use a Linksys wireless G router with (2) FXS ports, running out to an Aastra analog deskphone and a garden variety Uniden 900 MHz wireless phone. I also run a softswitch client by Pando

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Cory or garret .. then may i ask witch ones you use everyday... On 8/17/05, Cory Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have never experienced any interoperability issues with Uniden phones > and Asterisk, at $114.95 customers seem to be satisfied with the price > vs quality/performance on the U

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

I have never experienced any interoperability issues with Uniden phones and Asterisk, at $114.95 customers seem to be satisfied with the price vs quality/performance on the UIP200. No lack of support on the new UIP1868 either from what I can see. Admin guide, sample config files and firmware a

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

And to add to that, documentation and support is also quite poor at present for Uniden IP gear. It's why we don't sell anything other than the UIP200 at the moment, simply because it's something we've helped deploy before and can support. --Kevin > Folks! > > A note of caution about Uniden equi

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

I don't understand how being a publicly traded company helps. Remember Enron? Global Crossing? Worldcom? Or "Insert Dot.Com here"? I am sure a "few" customers were screwed there.. Regards, Sean Milheim iDREUS Corporation -Original Message- From: Alan Bunch

RE: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Folks! A note of caution about Uniden equipment. Please read all the product reviews on Uniden equipment before you buy them. My experience with Uniden Phones is not satisfactory, both Usability as well as appearance and quality of the phones. FYI Seshu Kanuri -Original Message- From: [

[Asterisk-biz] VPN,PLC service for Thailand to US.

Dear sir, I'm looking carrier who have PLC,VPN license for Thailand to US. i need solution like http://www.bt.infonet.com/about/newsroom/press_release.asp?month=0714&year=2005 Please contact me direct. Dome C. ___ Asterisk-Biz mailing list Asteris

RE: [Asterisk-biz] PRI and echo cancelation ...

Agreed, this should be on the Users List. My experience has been that PRIs have much less trouble. The echo typcially comes from the analog to digital conversion. I personally believe the reason for this is that the Analog to Digital conversion that happens at the telco is done with much higher qu

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Jimmy - we have a variety of WIFI SIP Phones UTStarCom F1000 Hitachi Cable IPC-5000 Zyxel P2000W Uniden UIP1868 - Has a wireless remote handset in addition to base unit Aastra 480i CT - Has a wireless remote handset in addition to base unit We also have a bunch of other Uniden analog wireless ph

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

I have had a good experience with NetLogic so far and would recommend them. -Jonathan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Young Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:45 PM To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion Subject:

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

Alan, would like to offer you to test out NetLogic for your needs. Don't know what the small Texas town is, but I can offer you DIDs in Dallas and Atlanta delivered via SIP. We have a presence in 2323 Bryan in Dallas, and can deliver you a dedicated T-1 (or Ethernet) from there. We manage QoS acros

Re: [Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

Do you hold any wiereless sip voip phones ? On 8/17/05, Cory Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > *VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements - August 2005* > > *Uniden UIP1868* - Digital Whole House VoIP Telephone System > Shipping Now! - http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=

[Asterisk-biz] VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements

*VOIPSupply.com - New Product Announcements - August 2005* *Uniden UIP1868* - Digital Whole House VoIP Telephone System Shipping Now! - http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=923 *Aastra 9112i SIP Phone* - Shipping Now! http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=1009

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

Jimmy. I, for starters, was waiting for Kevins email notifying that the quantity calculator was ready on TW website and since this IS a voip business forum, I think it was the right place to announce it to the community. I'm not the kind of guy who likes to bash but.. "taken you chill pill lately

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Varion 4E1 Card.

izo wrote: On 8/16/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear all, Did someone ever order E1 Card from govarion.com ? I try to order from them. they send me performa invoice. after i wired money on last friday i send them e-mail 5 times but not reply until now. I ordered card

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

ok ok sorry bout all the fuss just switched to decaf ;) On 8/17/05, Tom Rymes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jimmy, > > This is the commercial list. VOIPSupply's posts would be out of line > on the users list, but they are fine here. > > Frankly, I was happy to hear that they have updated their o

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

Jimmy, This is the commercial list. VOIPSupply's posts would be out of line on the users list, but they are fine here. Frankly, I was happy to hear that they have updated their online store to allow for volume discounts. Even if that's a "Welcome to 2005" addition. Tom On Aug 17, 2005,

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

On Wednesday 17 August 2005 10:09, Jimmy Smith wrote: > STOP THE SPAM AND PUBLICITY Sorry, but this is the biz list. He's in his right to make promo on this list. One of the few lists where you are EXPECTED to see commercial offerings. It would be quite annoying thing if he sent out the same mes

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

Seriously cut down on the caffeine. Regards, Sean Milheim iDREUS Corporation -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jimmy Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10:59 AM To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Di

[Asterisk-biz] Looking for investment

Hi, We are looking for a 150 000 euros investment for launch VoIP services (PROJECT 1): - IPCentrex in France - VoIP minutes trading   If you don't want invest 150 000 euros, it's not a problem for us having more than one associates.   NB : I'm looking for a 2 millions of dollars investment t

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

im not talking about the fact that they do or not have valuable items... im talking about how they announce it... Why not just say.. we offer this and that instead of i got a new bumper sticker... The gransream part is ok.. but the qty table is filling in crap.. again mho no offense kevin we a

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 10:34 -0400, Kanuri, Seshu (Company IT) wrote: > Jimmy, > > I don't understand what is wrong with kevin's message, if it is just an > introduction to his site selling VOIP gear which all in this forum need. > That is what other vendors are doing in this forum. > > Seshu I m

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

introduction is once .. not every 2 days with i added some fancy option in my html thats for html newbies forums please.. now.. if it was. I added a reseller plan to my site i could see the direct connection to asterisk biz but .. i added quatity check box on my site on the right doesnt m

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

Jimmy, Buying equipment is part of my VoIP business, isn't it for you? why would an announcement like this cause such an reaction? /Danny Jimmy Smith wrote: STOP THE SPAM AND PUBLICITY make an asterisk-pub for that darn this is getting ridiculus.. "i added a word on my website kindof shit"

RE: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

Jimmy, I don't understand what is wrong with kevin's message, if it is just an introduction to his site selling VOIP gear which all in this forum need. That is what other vendors are doing in this forum. Seshu -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behal

RE: [Asterisk-biz] PRI and echo cancelation ...

This is really one for the Asterisk Users list, but the answer is that echo is just as much a problem on PRIs as on analog connections. Any telephone connection with a POTS analog connection at the far end may have echo problems, whether or not the Asterisk end is T1/E1 or analog. David M. >

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

STOP THE SPAM AND PUBLICITY make an asterisk-pub for that darn this is getting ridiculus.. "i added a word on my website kindof shit" "Look to the right hand margin of a product page to see a quantity pricing table" ** com on "Our cart will also automatically calculate the new cost of a quant

RE: [Asterisk-biz] PRI and echo cancelation ...

Um ... "or the other" is what I meant, of course. Thomas Christie There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Christie Sent: Wednesday, August 17,

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Varion 4E1 Card.

On 8/16/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear all, > > Did someone ever order E1 Card from govarion.com ? > I try to order from them. they send me performa invoice. > after i wired money on last friday i send them e-mail 5 times but not reply > until now. I ordered cards from t

RE: [Asterisk-biz] PRI and echo cancelation ...

I've never seen (well, heard) echo in a digital environment. In my experience, any echo when using PRI trunks has always been induced by analog equipment somewhere along the connection path, usually at one end of the other. Thomas Christie There are 10 types of people in the world: those who u

[Asterisk-biz] Telephonyware now selling Grandstream, and quantity pricing

Hi All, Telephonyware would like to announce it now sells the entire range of Grandstream ATAs and phones at great prices. The products can be viewed at the following URL: http://www.telephonyware.com/telephonyware/Brands/Grandstream We also now have quantity pricing on our most common products

Re: [Asterisk-biz] PRI and echo cancelation ...

Alan Bunch wrote: I have been reading with great interest the posts on trouble shooting echo cancellation with *. Is it just coninsidence that all of this discussion has been with analog lines. Are PRI's susceptible to echo problem like POTS lines. Thanks for clearing this up. Alabun Yes

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

DANG ! Next hitter to plate please. Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Alan Bunch wrote: Yes it is. I have enough other data traffic and lines to make up the rest of the 5k month. 5k$ mrc for the SIP origination product, and can't be combined with any other revenue

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Alan Bunch wrote: > Yes it is. I have enough other data traffic and lines to make up the > rest of the 5k month. 5k$ mrc for the SIP origination product, and can't be combined with any other revenues from any other product. This is the case with GX/L3/XO. -alex ___

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

Yes it is. I have enough other data traffic and lines to make up the rest of the 5k month. alabun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Alan Bunch wrote: Do any of the national, name brand (ATT, MCI, Qwest, Level 3 Time Warner etc) carriers offer DID's in small quantities (100-2

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Alan Bunch wrote: > Do any of the national, name brand (ATT, MCI, Qwest, Level 3 Time Warner > etc) carriers offer DID's in small quantities (100-200) via SIP. > Minute volume is less then 10k minutes per month. It might be a LOT > less then 10k minutes per month. This is

[Asterisk-biz] Now a question about carriers ...

Do any of the national, name brand (ATT, MCI, Qwest, Level 3 Time Warner etc) carriers offer DID's in small quantities (100-200) via SIP. Minute volume is less then 10k minutes per month. It might be a LOT less then 10k minutes per month. This is for inbound and outbound traffic. I need a

[Asterisk-biz] Dooh, ignore last post ...

Sorry, worng list. Alan ___ Asterisk-Biz mailing list Asterisk-Biz@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz

[Asterisk-biz] PRI and echo cancelation ...

I have been reading with great interest the posts on trouble shooting echo cancellation with *. Is it just coninsidence that all of this discussion has been with analog lines. Are PRI's susceptible to echo problem like POTS lines. Thanks for clearing this up. Alabun

[Asterisk-biz] Asterisk Training Instructors Wanted

Are you competent in Asterisk? We are looking for technical persons who can conduct Asterisk technical training for a duration of one week in the months of Oct,Nov and December 2005 in Malaysia. It is a long term part time assignment. If you fit the description, please forward your resume for f

Re: [Asterisk-biz] Appeal of FCC 911 Order

Our sole advantage is that we are cheaper since we do not have to pay into these funds. I disagree with this.. I for one think we have MANY advantages.. Features, we are smaller and can move new and better services to market faster. I could go one but I think that the idea that the only th