>My suggestion is that we fix Axis so that it appends the and
> elements to existing definitions.
I like that idea.
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Doc/Literal support in axis
When "starting with WSDL", what that really menas if that you should be
starting with a WSDL definition (plus it's referenced definitions) -- not with a complete WSDL document including
and elements. The binding inform
I second that suggestion. :)
-Original Message-
From: Anne Thomas Manes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Doc/Literal support in axis
When "starting with WSDL", what that really menas if that you should be
start
When "starting with WSDL", what that really menas if that you should be
starting with a WSDL definition (plus it's referenced definitions) -- not with a complete WSDL document including
and elements. The binding information should be
specified during packaging and deployment. The element sh
FWIW, ASP.NET does this very thing when generating WSDL. The actual
service endpoint depends on the request url for the WSDL
so if I request http://www.fred.com/foo/bar.asmx?wsdl the generated wsdl
would contain a serice port to http://www.fred.com/foo/bar.asmx.
Makes it kinda fun with our WSD
>There are a bunch of doc/lit specific bugs that have been fixed in both the
>straight 1.2 alpha release and the latest Axis CVS.
Understood. This is really frustrating if you're trying to use Axis
1.1. A beta of Axis 1.2 that passes all tests would be very welcome.
>As to your template WSDL sugg
nt: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:33 PM
To: Anderson Jonathan
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Doc/Literal support in axis
I was looking again at your excellent cookbook for doing doc/literal
in Axis and had a couple of followup practical questions:
You specify using Axis 1.2 alpha. Is there any
The definitive source of information for all things happening in the world
of XML is Robin Cover's Cover Pages [1]. I also plan to start a blog thread
that summariezes all the latest standards/specification efforts -- I just
need to find the time to do so. Perhaps this weekend...I'll post a note
I was looking again at your excellent cookbook for doing doc/literal
in Axis and had a couple of followup practical questions:
You specify using Axis 1.2 alpha. Is there any hope with Axis 1.1? And
do you mean the alpha release or the latest Axis CVS?
You mention that if you use ,
>Endpoint loca
Anne Thomas Manes helpfully writes:
>We will solve the security problem in the very near future.
>OASIS WSS SOAP Message Security (the standardized version of WS-Security)
>should be ratified as a formal OASIS standard by the end of the month.
I believe the documents are available here:
http://
Note that TREX was merged with RELAX to create RELAX NG.
Also -- more to the point -- note that RELAX NG does not define a type
system. It defers to XML Schema for the type system. Unfortunately, we
really can't escape XML Schema.
Sun, Microsoft, and everyone else has standardized in XML Schema
Regarding standard SOAP headers:
We will solve the security problem in the very near future.
OASIS WSS SOAP Message Security (the standardized version of WS-Security)
should be ratified as a formal OASIS standard by the end of the month.
OASIS WSS defines standard tags for you to put authentica
Anderson Jonathan wrote:
Jim Murphy wrote:
Why wouldn't a very thin Axis working with several Java
binding/marshaling layers be a compelling approach?
Problem is, I have yet to see a SOAP stack that works this way. "Consuming
one stream and producing another" implies that each intermediar
Jim Murphy wrote:
>I don't get why this is a problem. Say I have a handler that wants to
>transform a request in some way (decrypt, remove a Header whatever).
>Isn't that just consuming one stream and producing another? If it wants
>to consume one stream map that to Java using some marshaling/bin
Anderson Jonathan wrote:
The problems is that intermediary nodes can change the content of the SOAP
envelope, plain and simple. This really complicates that SOAP XML data
binding issue. Intermediary node implementations need access to the SOAP
header information at the very least... any type of
e wire and how this gets
produced is of secondary importance IMHO ...
best,
alek
-Original Message-
From: Jim Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: XmlBeans and Axis? [Re: Doc/Literal support in axis
I favor the appr
ED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: XmlBeans and Axis? [Re: Doc/Literal support in axis
I favor the approach this suggests:
Make the SOAP stack an XML delivery and minimal SOAP processing engine
and leave XML<->Java type translation to another
Jim Murphy wrote:
Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
doc/lit means you don't need to care about 1 or 3 - you specify the
XML format and let the clients worry about how they want to handle
it. 2 is a separate issue...
Really? I can see how it would be liberating to think this way but I
can break away from
I favor the approach this suggests:
Make the SOAP stack an XML delivery and minimal SOAP processing engine
and leave XML<->Java type translation to another layer. Chose Castor,
XmlBeans, JAXB 1.0, 2.0 whatever. The choice is dictated by how I want
to work witht he XML recognizing that the XML is
Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
Jim Murphy wrote:
IMHO, Web Service Message design has been an afterthought of the spec
working groups that comprise your typical WS stack. You need to know
a lot of grunge to design an easy to consume service:
1. XSD - what to use and what to avoid is the hard part esp
Nelson Minar wrote:
This discussion has been very useful. Thank you!
Jim Murphy of MindReef/SOAPScope said:
What that means to me is that SOAP is the ... tags that allow service
designers to put application stuff in one bucket (soap:Body) and keep
that separate from non-functional stuff that goes
Aleksander Slominski wrote:
Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
I've got my own lightweight SOAP framework built around JiBX. I'll try
to get something out about that, probably adding it as a subproject in
conjunction with the beta 3a release next week, so that people who are
interested in a decoupled ap
Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
This is great to hear about, but information on WS/XSUL looks scarce
(I found your slide set - or is that slajd set?).
woes of trying to do power point to html conversion ... (BTW "slajd" is
in Polish for slide :) )
Can you point me at anything that's usable?
WS/XSUL ju
Aleksander Slominski wrote:
Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
Long term it's clear that real data binding support needs to be
integrated into the SOAP framework
do you know if anybody tried to add support for XmlBeans
(http://xml.apache.org/xmlbeans/) to AXIS?
we have XmlBeans integrated in WS/XS
Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
Long term it's clear that real data binding support needs to be
integrated into the SOAP framework. JAX-RPC 2.0 has the stated
intention of doing this using JAXB 2.0. Right now you can kind of do
this with Castor in Axis, if you're willing to go through enough
trouble (I
Nelson Minar wrote:
This discussion has been very useful. Thank you!
Jim Murphy of MindReef/SOAPScope said:
What that means to me is that SOAP is the ... tags that allow service
designers to put application stuff in one bucket (soap:Body) and keep
that separate from non-functional stuff that g
This discussion has been very useful. Thank you!
Jim Murphy of MindReef/SOAPScope said:
>What that means to me is that SOAP is the ... tags that allow service
>designers to put application stuff in one bucket (soap:Body) and keep
>that separate from non-functional stuff that goes in Headers.
I ag
Awesome. I was aware of TREX, but not of RELAX or RELAX NG. I'd honestly
forgotten there were alternatives to W3C XML Schema, which is most likely an
unfortunate side effect of having my head down in the SOAP bubbles for too
long.
So the question really, as you pointed out, is toolkit support.
Anderson Jonathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Maybe we'll see an XML Schema "Lite" in the future?
we already have one of these:
http://www.relaxng.org/
or maybe you meant "maybe we'll see support for other schema languages
in our WS tools in the future", in which case I wonder the same thin
olkit iterops.
Maybe we'll see an XML Schema "Lite" in the future?
-Jon
-Original Message-
From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Doc/Literal support in axis
Anderson Jonathan wrot
Anderson Jonathan wrote:
...
The $5000 Question:
Should we not have native support in a programming language for XML Schema?
Why all this mapping nonsense?
That appears to be the "bold new computing direction" of the month for
Microsoft. I think it's a bad idea.
Schema is a design-by-committee m
Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
>As I've said before, I think it's unfortunate that JAX-RPC/Axis is
>coming from such a strong rpc/enc orientation. I think an API for
>doc/lit services can be *much* simpler than the current mess of stubs,
>ties, wire, duct tape, chewing gum, etc.
Is this not where everyone
Jim, Nelson, all,
So, now that we all agree that SOAP is just a framing protocol and
processing model, and XML Schema is that de-facto type system for defining
interoperable data types...
The $50,000 Question:
What problems can we solve with SOAP based Web Services?
A colleague of mine has sugge
Jim Murphy wrote:
...
IMHO, Web Service
Message design has been an afterthought of the spec working groups that
comprise your typical WS stack. You need to know a lot of grunge to
design an easy to consume service:
1. XSD - what to use and what to avoid is the hard part especially when
mode
Nelson Minar wrote:
"Anderson Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Time for my two cents. We've been using Axis 1.2 alpha builds since
November '03 to build WS-I compliant document literal web services.
How is this possible? Here's our cookbook:
This is a terrific message, thank you! I think t
Nelson Minar wrote:
"Anderson Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
No longer are we using java2wsdl to simply provide a RMI over http -
the mentality of "take your Java class and expose it as a web
service" should be combated wherever encountered.
I'm slowly understanding the shift th
Title: RE: Doc/Literal support in axis
That was very helpful. Thanks a lot Jon!
-Wei
-Original Message-
From: Anderson Jonathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:15 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Doc/Literal support in axis
Hey gang
"Anderson Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Time for my two cents. We've been using Axis 1.2 alpha builds since
>November '03 to build WS-I compliant document literal web services.
>How is this possible? Here's our cookbook:
This is a terrific message, thank you! I think this would be a grea
s. Pass it on.
-Jon
-Original Message-
From: Marepalli, Somesh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Doc/Literal support in axis
If you have taken the pains to hand craft a WSDL and make it WS-I
compliant, you might as
: Monday, March 15, 2004 6:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Doc/Literal support in axis
We are using doc/literal support as well in Axis 1.1.
To cater for compatible implementations (Axis, JAX-RPC, .net) we have
defined the WSDL outside of the tools - it is handcranked to define the
contract
Subject
RE: Doc/Literal support in
axis
We are using doc/literal support as well in Axis 1.1.
To cater for compatible implementations (Axis, JAX-RPC, .net) we have
defined the WSDL outside of the tools - it is handcranked to define the
contract and then separate groups can build their own
We are using doc/literal support as well in Axis 1.1.
To cater for compatible implementations (Axis, JAX-RPC, .net) we have
defined the WSDL outside of the tools - it is handcranked to define the
contract and then separate groups can build their own clients and
servers using whatever technology th
something with regard to doc/literal support in
Axis1.1
__Hari
-Original Message-
From: Nelson Minar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 3/11/2004 5:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: Doc/Literal support in axis
>But I keep reading about how Axis 1.1 does not really support doc/literal
I keep reading that, too. But then I've talked to people who are doing
doc/literal with Axis 1.1 with no trouble, too.
What's the scoop?
1.2 alpha appears to have a variety of problems. I was not able to use
it directly for either rpc/encoded or doc/literal in some testing I'm
doing, though I think the problems with both have been solved in the
current CVS code. Until the developers come out with a 1.2 beta version
that includes
Hi all,
I am currently in the process of modifying a RPC/Encoded web
service to use RPC/Literal instead. But while reading about interoperability
issues, I realized that .NET among others does not support RPC/Literal, so I am
looking to use doc/literal instead. But I keep reading abou
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