Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

Proposal 1 does not deal with Tx fee. Proposal 2 does. According to proposal 2, miners wont be able to increase or decrease Max Block Size only by manipulating Tx fee. They have to manipulate... i. Tx fee of ~4000 blocks. ii. Block size of ~4000 blocks. I never proposed *next block collects Tx fee

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

Can we please keep this mail chain discussion specific to the proposed draft - https://github.com/UpalChakraborty/bips/blob/master/BIP-DynamicMaxBlockSize.mediawiki ? I understand, voting process is an important subject of discussion. But, that may be discussed in a separate mail chain. On Wed, A

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

On 26 August 2015 at 01:29, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > For instance, a very simple toy example that would work is just XORing your > vote with SHA256(the entire blockchain) Uh, that would totally not work. I think my proposal of using CLTV to lock coins (votes) is better. Failing a sof

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 05:44:46AM +0800, Chun Wang wrote: > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:18 AM, Simon Liu via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > I don't think this would work. > > > > If the rule is that one user can only have one vote, how do you prevent > > a user running multiple nodes? > > The vote is no

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:18 AM, Simon Liu via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I don't think this would work. > > If the rule is that one user can only have one vote, how do you prevent > a user running multiple nodes? The vote is not counted by nodes, but bitcoin amount, or probably better, coin-days. It w

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

> just as in democracy in general One should be clear that Bitcoin is by no possible measure a democracy. The proposed vote is on what goes into a particular github repository. The outcome is ultimately controlled by those with control of that repository. Bitcoin is an anarchy by design. People

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

I don't think this would work. If the rule is that one user can only have one vote, how do you prevent a user running multiple nodes? Also, how do you verify that a node is indeed a fully validating node with its own copy of the blockchain? On 08/25/2015 01:37 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wro

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

On Tuesday, 25 August 2015, at 1:37 pm, Peter Todd wrote: > On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 04:26:23PM -0400, Matt Whitlock wrote: > > On Tuesday, 25 August 2015, at 1:16 pm, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > What would you think of an approach like John Dillon's proposal to > > > explicitly give the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 04:26:23PM -0400, Matt Whitlock wrote: > On Tuesday, 25 August 2015, at 1:16 pm, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > What would you think of an approach like John Dillon's proposal to > > explicitly give the economic majority of coin holders a vote for the max > > blocksiz

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

On Tuesday, 25 August 2015, at 1:16 pm, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > What would you think of an approach like John Dillon's proposal to > explicitly give the economic majority of coin holders a vote for the max > blocksize? Miners could still vote BIP100 style for what max they were > willin

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 05:19:28PM +0800, Chun Wang via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Proposal 1 looks good, but tx fee collected can be manipulated by > miners. I like the idea next block collect the tx fee from previous > block. What would you think of an approach like John Dillon's proposal to explicitl

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

Proposal 1 looks good, but tx fee collected can be manipulated by miners. I like the idea next block collect the tx fee from previous block. On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Upal Chakraborty via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Github: > https://github.com/UpalChakraborty/bips/blob/master/BIP-DynamicMaxBlock

[bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap [BIP 1xx - Draft]

Github: https://github.com/UpalChakraborty/bips/blob/master/BIP-DynamicMaxBlockSize.mediawiki BIP: 1xx Title: Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap Author: Upal Chakraborty Status: Draft Type: Standards Track Created: 2015-08-24 ==Abstract== This BIP proposes replacin

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 1:41 AM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: > On 8/21/2015 5:01 PM, Peter Todd wrote: >> >>> I checked the scenario where only the radio is on, and found the car >>> does not crash. >> Incidentally, what's your acceptable revenue difference between a small >> (1% hashing po

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On 8/21/2015 5:01 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > >> I checked the scenario where only the radio is on, and found the car >> does not crash. > Incidentally, what's your acceptable revenue difference between a small > (1% hashing power) and large (%30 hashing power) miner, all else being > equal? (remember

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 21 August 2015 20:21:22 GMT-07:00, "Jorge Timón" wrote: >Don't you mean profits instead of revenue? Actually no. I thought revenue would be a less subjective question to ask, with more focus on the underlying orphan rate question; part of the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

Don't you mean profits instead of revenue? On Aug 21, 2015 5:01 PM, "Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev" < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 04:16:39PM -0700, Tom Harding wrote: > > On 8/21/2015 3:21 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > > > To use a car analogy, Pieter Wuille ha

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 04:16:39PM -0700, Tom Harding wrote: > On 8/21/2015 3:21 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > > To use a car analogy, Pieter Wuille has shown that the brake cylinders > > have a fatigue problem, and if used in stop-and-go traffic regularly > > they'll fail during heavy braking, potential

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On 8/21/2015 3:21 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > To use a car analogy, Pieter Wuille has shown that the brake cylinders > have a fatigue problem, and if used in stop-and-go traffic regularly > they'll fail during heavy braking, potentially killing someone. You've > countered with a study of highway drivin

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 09:52:43AM -0700, Tom Harding wrote: > On 8/20/2015 5:37 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 05:25:59PM -0700, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev > > wrote: >> I found that small miners were not at all disadvantaged by large > blocks. >> > > You used 20% as the size

[bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

I have tried to solve the maximum block size debate in two different proposal. i. Depending only on previous block size calculation. ii. Depending on previous block size calculation and previous Tx fee collected by miners. Proposal 1: Depending only on previous block size calculation If more t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Milly Bitcoin via bitcoin-dev wrote: >> For the 73th time or so this month on this list: >> >> The maximum block size consensus rule limits mining centralization >> (which is currently pretty bad). > > > Instead of posting all these messages with bald claims why d

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 2:13 PM, Sriram Karra wrote: > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Jorge Timón > wrote: >> >> >> For the 73th time or so this month on this list: >> >> The maximum block size consensus rule limits mining centralization >> (which is currently pretty bad). >> >> But don't worry

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On 8/20/2015 5:37 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 05:25:59PM -0700, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >> I found that small miners were not at all disadvantaged by large blocks. >> > > You used 20% as the size of the large miner, with all the small miners > having good connectiv

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Jorge Timón < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > For the 73th time or so this month on this list: > > The maximum block size consensus rule limits mining centralization > (which is currently pretty bad). > > But don't worry about not being an authori

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

Yes, I am familiar with the process as i spent years doing it. Many here are familiar with the Bitcoin issues but they are not familiar with addressing risk in a systematic way. There are many good posts but they are dispersed among thousands of messages and the discussions are in a variety o

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 08:45:53PM -0400, Milly Bitcoin via bitcoin-dev wrote: You know, I've noticed you've spent a tremendous amount of time and energy on this list promoting these kinds of metrics; obviously you're somewhat of an expert on this compared to the rest of us. Why don't you look in

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

The idea is to come up with some sort of standardized metric so as the tools and issues come up you are comparing similar things. The first thing you have to do is link "centralization pressure" and (pressure to merge with a big miner) to some sort of overall decentralization metric. For inst

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 05:25:59PM -0700, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: > On 8/20/2015 3:23 AM, Milly Bitcoin via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >>For the 73th time or so this month on this list: > >> > >>The maximum block size consensus rule limits mining centralization > >>(which is currently pretty b

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On 8/20/2015 3:23 AM, Milly Bitcoin via bitcoin-dev wrote: For the 73th time or so this month on this list: The maximum block size consensus rule limits mining centralization (which is currently pretty bad). Instead of posting all these messages with bald claims why don't you work on a decent

[bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

Regarding... i. http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010493.html ii. http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010499.html Could we please keep the conversation specific to the proposal presented at http://upalc.com/maxblocksize.php ? If you f

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

For the 73th time or so this month on this list: The maximum block size consensus rule limits mining centralization (which is currently pretty bad). Instead of posting all these messages with bald claims why don't you work on a decentralization metric which you can point to? (instead of tryi

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Chris Wardell via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I'm no authority on the subject, but I don't understand why there is a max > block-size, other than anti-spam measures. > > The only other reason I have heard for a max-block-size is to force people > into paying higher fees.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

I think, keeping the reduction part is necessary to have it demand driven. Otherwise, we could just increase it to a fixed size. If the max cap is high, but there is not enough Tx in the mempool, then after one big block many will go small. This will not be good when block reward become small and m

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

I agree with the simplicity of this approach and with removing the reduction step... it's unlikely the block size would ever need to be reduced, only increased with demand? I like this solution better than either kicking the can, or raising the block size based on chain height (another dynamic sol

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

I like the simplicity of this approach. Demand driven response. Is there really a need to reduce the max block size at all? It is just a maximum limit, not a required size for every block. If a seasonal transaction surge bumps the max block size limit up a notch, what harm is there in leaving t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

Sounds like a much better approach than arbitrary deciding what the block size should be BR Le 18/08/2015 14:13, Upal Chakraborty via bitcoin-dev a écrit : Regarding: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010295.html I am arguing with the following statement he

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

I'm no authority on the subject, but I don't understand why there is a max block-size, other than anti-spam measures. The only other reason I have heard for a max-block-size is to force people into paying higher fees. This seems like the wrong way to force fees. If you want to force fees, then d

[bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

Regarding: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010295.html I am arguing with the following statement here... *I see problems to this approach. The biggest one I see is that a miner > with 11% of hash power could sabotage block size increases by only ever > mining e

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Rodney Morris via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I haven't run any statistics or simulations, but I'm concerned that the > interplay between the random distribution of transaction arrival and the > random distribution of block times

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

I've been sharing a similar solution for the past 2 weeks. I think 2016 blocks is too much of a wait, I think we should look at the mean block size during the last 60-120 minutes instead and avert any crisis caused by transactional spikes that could well be caused by organic use of the network (Mad

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

transactions). At least, that's my take on it. Rodney > > > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:51:26 +0100 > From: Btc Drak > To: Patrick Strateman > Cc: Bitcoin Dev > Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size > Max Cap > Message-ID: >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Nobody is going to click that... I guess I am nobody. Here's a copy of the text:- *Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap * *Assumpt

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

Nobody is going to click that... On 08/17/2015 02:44 AM, Upal Chakraborty via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I have tried to solve the maximum block size debate, depending on the > previous block size calculation. > > Requesting for comment - http://upalc.com/maxblocksize.php > > > _

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

Interesting. I am writing down something similar. Will share soon. Upal Chakraborty via bitcoin-dev schrieb am Mo., 17. Aug. 2015 um 11:45 Uhr: > I have tried to solve the maximum block size debate, depending on the > previous block size calculation. > > Requesting for comment - http://upalc.com

[bitcoin-dev] Dynamically Controlled Bitcoin Block Size Max Cap

I have tried to solve the maximum block size debate, depending on the previous block size calculation. Requesting for comment - http://upalc.com/maxblocksize.php ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfounda