> On Fri, 6/13/08, Pat Mathews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One more answer to Debbi - this time about GreenTechnology -
> as I sit here in my midcentury box in the desert with the
> swamp cooler running - people used to build for the
> climate. There once was a huge body of knowledge about how
>
> On Fri, 6/13/08, Pat Mathews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Deborah Harrell says: "I think we ought to have
>> adaptation classes for those unfamiliar with our ideal
>> values."
> I totally agree. Enrollees will include a good many people
> who think that granting habeas corpus to accesed enemi
One more answer to Debbi - this time about GreenTechnology - as I sit here in
my midcentury box in the desert with the swamp cooler running - people used to
build for the climate. There once was a huge body of knowledge about how to do
so. No high tech required; just the good services of an his
Deborah Harrell says: "I think we ought to have adaptation classes for those
unfamiliar with our ideal values."
I totally agree. Enrollees will include a good many people who think that
granting habeas corpus to accesed enemies of the State means we will all be
murdered in our beds; those who
Late - better than never, no? Snippage throughout. I *think* I've got who
said what correct...
>On Tue, 5/20/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
> > > From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Best-case
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
> To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
> Subject: Restricting, not: culling the species
>
>
> I'm going to reply to two posts in one message here -
> (*and* I changed the thread title, but won't call it
> hijacking!) ;)
>
>> &
OTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
> To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
> Subject: Restricting, not: culling the species
>
>
> I'm going to reply to two posts in one message here -
> (*and* I changed the thread title, but won't call it
> hijacking!) ;)
Original Message:
-
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Restricting, not: culling the species
I'm going to reply to two posts in one message here -
(*and* I changed the thread title, but won&#
I'm going to reply to two posts in one message here -
(*and* I changed the thread title, but won't call it
hijacking!) ;)
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
> > From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Best-case scenario for population reduction is
> >education and economic empowerment for women,
I'm going to reply to two posts in one message here -
(*and* I changed the thread title, but won't call it
hijacking!) ;)
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
> > From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Best-case scenario for population reduction is
> >education and economic empowerment for women,
William T Goodall wrote:
>
> Seems a bit pointless since it just discourages me from trying to read
> his posts at all.
>
/me too. I usually ignore messages that are badly quoted. Some
of them I even delete without opening (too many messages to read,
not worth the time)
Alberto Monteiro
__
...it's interesting that Native Americans are the group with _lower_
fertility rate.
Here in Brazil, it's the group with_higher_ fertility rate...
Alberto Monteiro
i wonder if there is a correlation with high alcoholism rates; is that
a factor in brazil among indigenous natives?
jon mann
>nevertheless, dark hair and eye color are dominant genetic
>characteristics, so with rapid assimilation, us brown folks
>will eventually replace most blue eyed blonds...
Yup, and I have nothing against you (except personally, given you're
too rude to use quote). You don't follow a mildly...oooh
There are some groups (and congats, you missed my point - I'm talking
about Europe's little issue) who don't, in the large, participate in
the culture of the nation they live in, and indeed detest it.
(Andrew)
You're talking at cross-purposes, you know...
And what you're talking about, Andrew, is
On 18 May 2008, at 17:22, xponentrob wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion"
> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:59 AM
> Subject: Re: culling the species
>
>
>&g
On 19 May 2008 at 0:59, Charlie Bell wrote:
> > Way to miss my point! There are some groups (and congats, you missed
> > my point - I'm talking about Europe's little issue) who don't, in the
> > large, participate in the culture of the nation they live in, and
> > indeed detest it.
>
> You're tal
On Sun, 18 May 2008, xponentrob wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion"
> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:59 AM
> Subject: Re: culling the species
>
>
>>
- Original Message -
From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion"
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: culling the species
> He's not too rude, as you'd know if you'd bothered to pay atte
On 18/05/2008, at 9:52 PM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
> On 17 May 2008 at 11:12, a rude person who can't use quote wrote:
>
>>> andrew, there was a time when native americans were the majority
> ethnic
>>> group and white europeans were the minority, but genocide
>>> eventually changed those statistic
On 17 May 2008 at 11:12, a rude person who can't use quote wrote:
>> andrew, there was a time when native americans were the majority
ethnic
>> group and white europeans were the minority, but genocide
>>eventually changed those statistics...
Right. Remind me why that sets a good precident.
>
The issue is that certain minority population groups (different ones,
in different parts of the world) won't cut their reproduction rates,
and then they *won't* be a small minority for that long. And some of
these groups have, well, less than complimentary views of the culture
of the majority o
Dan M. wrote:
>
>> I guess the USA rate would be close to 1.5 if it were not for mexicans
>
> It would be just above if the Hispanics were not included. The rates are
>
> 2.9 Hispanic
> 2.0 Non-Hispanic black
> 1.8 Non-Hispanic white
> 1.9 Asian, Pacific Islander
> 1.7 Native Americans
>
Not
Original Message:
-
From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:50:00 +
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: culling the species
(I guess the USA rate would be close to 1.5 if it were not for mexicans).
It would be just above if the
Dan M. wrote:
>
> I don't really think the fact that the US has a ZPG fertility rate of 2.1
> while Europe and Japan are at 1.5 and 1.22, respectively is the result of
> Japanese women being the most liberated of the three developed
> countries/ecconomic unions.
>
BTW, Brazil's low ZPG fertility r
At 08:00 PM Friday 5/16/2008, Julia Thompson wrote:
>On Fri, 16 May 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> > At 04:41 PM Friday 5/16/2008, Deborah Harrell wrote:
> >
> >> I think Dr. Phlox's folk might have an interesting
> >> point in their group marriage approach...wasn't each
> >> person married to 3
On 16 May 2008 at 14:41, Deborah Harrell wrote:
> Best-case scenario for population reduction is
> education and economic empowerment for women, as I
> think Pat pointed out. Micro-loan programs and
The issue is that certain minority population groups (different ones,
in different parts of the
On Fri, 16 May 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> At 04:41 PM Friday 5/16/2008, Deborah Harrell wrote:
>
>> I think Dr. Phlox's folk might have an interesting
>> point in their group marriage approach...wasn't each
>> person married to 3 others? Now *that* would lead to
>> wild family reunions!
At 04:53 PM Friday 5/16/2008, jon louis mann wrote:
>... Best-case scenario for population reduction is education and
>economic empowerment for women
>
>... denied knowledge and access to birth control, they won't be able to
>choose when (or if) to have children
>
>... eliminate the problem of birt
At 04:41 PM Friday 5/16/2008, Deborah Harrell wrote:
>I think Dr. Phlox's folk might have an interesting
>point in their group marriage approach...wasn't each
>person married to 3 others? Now *that* would lead to
>wild family reunions! :)
Not to mention a market for king-size or larger beds.
Original Message:
-
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 14:41:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: culling the species
Trying to start on the massive baglog of posts to
which I wish to reply-
> Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]&
... Best-case scenario for population reduction is education and
economic empowerment for women
... denied knowledge and access to birth control, they won't be able to
choose when (or if) to have children
... eliminate the problem of birth-related fistulas that devastate
thousands of child brides
Trying to start on the massive baglog of posts to
which I wish to reply-
> Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, jon louis mann wrote:
> > empowering women is definitely a pragmatic
> solution. protecting
> > children, ending polygamy and legalizing same sex
> marri
~~~crop yields will continue to increase, but there is still a danger
of exhausting the soil and the water table, and other natural
resources, eventually. perhaps technology will come to our rescue in
time, perhaps not...
~~~and the water tableĀ
Jon, the top soil is _getting better_ in the bre
Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:
>
> (...) And there is always the Fermi
> paradox to keep in mind. Back in the 1960s some of us wondered if
> the reason there were no other advanced civilizations out there is
> that they blew themselves up with nuclear weapons or something like
> that. Now there is an
Dan M. wrote:
>
> Now, having said that, global warming means things will change. And,
> change means there will be some big losers. So, localized problems,
> oceans rising 1 meter in 100 years, etc. should be expected.
> Millions will die, probably. But, natural disasters and wars aside,
>
Dan M. wrote:
>
> One thing that makes me skeptical about this is that I've been
> hearing about an impending world catastrophy, mass starvation, etc.
> within the next 25 years for the last 40 years. I've read books on
> the subject. When I was younger, I believed them.
>
/me too. My favouri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> All the doomsayers of the 70s predicted
> prices for copper, iron ore, etc. would go through the roof.
The main culprit here is the Club of Rome, which is famous for
publishing "Limits to Growth" and "Mankind At The Turning Point".
Hotelling's Rule (See http://en.wikip
> crop yields will continue to increase, but there is
>still a danger of exhausting the soil
Jon, the top soil is _getting better_ in the breadbasket of the largest
grain producing country in the world.
>and the water table,
There will be localize problems with that. But, with rainfall incre
more people will die, as population increases beyond critical mass...
jon m
Would you please prove how one calculate what that critical mass is,
and then show it is less than the projected UN population maximum.
Dan M
i have no idea what critical mass would be, or if scientific estimates
are acc
Original Message:
-
From: jon louis mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: culling the species
>certainly more people will die, as population increases beyond
>critical mass...
The word certainly implies
i believe there will be a point when the blowback from global warming
(and possible glaciation) will be catastrophic, but i am a pessimist...
while america has been sleeping, the rest of the world has been making
enormous progress. contributing to the increase in emissions, etc. i
don't see any
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Kevin B. O'Brien
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:48 AM
> To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
> Subject: Re: culling the species
>
> >
> > What I sa
At 11:05 AM Wednesday 4/30/2008, Julia Thompson wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, jon louis mann wrote:
>
> > empowering women is definitely a pragmatic solution. protecting
> > children, ending polygamy and legalizing same sex marriage, also...
>
>How do you feel about polyandry?
>
> Julia
At 11:05 AM Wednesday 4/30/2008, Julia Thompson wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, jon louis mann wrote:
>
> > empowering women is definitely a pragmatic solution. protecting
> > children, ending polygamy and legalizing same sex marriage, also...
>
>How do you feel about polyandry?
>
> Julia
Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> At 08:34 AM Tuesday 4/29/2008, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:
>
>
>> "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only
>> one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." -- Wernher von Braun
>>
>
>
> I wonder if he said that before or after As
At 08:34 AM Tuesday 4/29/2008, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote:
>"Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only
>one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." -- Wernher von Braun
I wonder if he said that before or after Asimov?
. . . ronn! :)
"Basic research is what I
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Original Message:
> -
> From: Kevin B. O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:56:38 -0400
> To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
> Subject: Re: culling the species
>
>
>
>
>> If not, why do you thin
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, jon louis mann wrote:
> empowering women is definitely a pragmatic solution. protecting
> children, ending polygamy and legalizing same sex marriage, also...
How do you feel about polyandry?
Julia
___
http://www.mccmedi
Original Message:
-
From: Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:44:49 +1000
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: culling the species
On 30/04/2008, at 6:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> OK, let's look at an area with >2x the average populat
Actually, you can get much the same result with vast numbers of jobs
for women and high-paying jobs that call for more education. That are
actually accessible to low-income or third world women by following a
few straightforward steps, results guaranteed if she works at it. That
will result in girl
...as the price of oil continues to rise the world economy will be in
upheaval, with increasing disease, famine, wars, political and social
chaos. the die off is inevitable among most species, including
humanity and other species will oscillate. most of the genocide and
ethnic cleansing will occu
On 30/04/2008, at 6:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> OK, let's look at an area with >2x the average population density of
> the
> world: Western Europe. Where's the environmental catastrophy there?
Acid rain? The extinction of almost all large carnivores?
Charlie.
_
i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than
humanity.
i really don't think taking my own life will help matters...
jon
But in either case the result for you is the same.
I'm simply trying to get across in this discussion how offensive I find
it when anyone suggests that the
Original Message:
-
From: Kevin B. O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:56:38 -0400
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: culling the species
>
> If not, why do you think that the present level of population is
> unsustainable? In the US, at le
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>> Ah, I see your point. Mass executions are indeed hideous. I was thinking
>> about population control from the breeding side. And I have indeed
>> attempted to lead by example. I was sterilized at age 20, and have no
>> children. Mind you, I do think that either
>Ah, I see your point. Mass executions are indeed hideous. I was thinking
>about population control from the breeding side. And I have indeed
>attempted to lead by example. I was sterilized at age 20, and have no
>children. Mind you, I do think that either we rein in population size,
>or a l
others.
http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:50:48 -0500
> To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: culling the species
>
> At 10:23 PM Monday 4/28/2008, jon louis mann wrote:
> >i care more about the extinction of plant
Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> At 10:23 PM Monday 4/28/2008, jon louis mann wrote:
>
>> i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than
>> humanity.
>> jon
>>
>>
>> h... i really don't think taking my own life will help matters...
>> jon
>>
>
>
> But in either case the res
At 10:23 PM Monday 4/28/2008, jon louis mann wrote:
>i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than
>humanity.
>jon
>
>
>h... i really don't think taking my own life will help matters...
>jon
But in either case the result for you is the same.
I'm simply trying to get acro
i care more about the extinction of plant and animal species than
humanity.
jon
... suicide is painless... ...I can take or leave it if I please... I
try to find a way to make all our little joys relate without that ever
present hate... ...The game of life is hard to play, I'm gonna lose
it an
At 03:09 PM Monday 4/28/2008, jon louis mann wrote:
>personally, i care more about the extinction of plant and animal
>species than humanity.
Through early morning fog I see
visions of the things to be
the pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
that suicide is painless
I
On 4/28/08, jon louis mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I believe that a major die off is inevitable. (including humanity,
> which could be a good thing for the planet). the causes will include
> famine, disease, war and natural disasters, etc. unfortunately, the
> ethnic cleansing will occur mo
I believe that a major die off is inevitable. (including humanity,
which could be a good thing for the planet). the causes will include
famine, disease, war and natural disasters, etc. unfortunately, the
ethnic cleansing will occur mostly in undeveloped countries.
the worst case scenario wo
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