[ccp4bb] Beamline Scientist opening

2013-06-20 Thread Shekhar Mande
I am posting this job opening for a beamline Scientist position on behalf of Prof. D D Sarma. Interested candidates may write to him directly. The advertisement reads as below: *Beam-line Scientist and Engineer Positions* *at Elettra, Italian Synchrotron source, Trieste, ITALY* Two beam-line

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Randy Read
Yes, the function implemented in CNS includes the sigma term. Best wishes, Randy - Randy J. Read Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500 Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827 Hills

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Zhang, Zhen
Hi Matthew, Thanks a lot. That is a great idea. I will try the high salt and worry about the crystallization later. Zhen -Original Message- From: Matthew Franklin [mailto:mfrank...@nysbc.org] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:34 PM To: Zhang, Zhen Cc: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re:

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Randy Read
Hi, The intensity-based likelihood refinement target was in our paper in 1996 (http://www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk/Personal/randy/pubs/li0224r.pdf). It's perfectly happy with negative net intensities. Basically, the question you're asking with a negative net intensity is what is the probabili

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Matthew Franklin
Hi Zhen - Superdex is known to have some ion-exchange characteristics, so that it can weakly interact with some proteins. This is why the manufacturer recommends including a certain amount of salt in the running buffer. I have had the same experience with a few proteins, including one that

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Kushol Gupta
Mea culpa - I'm thinking minutes at 0.5 ml/min, not mLs! (clearly I'm overdue for my afternoon caffeine...) Kushol -Original Message- From: Zhang, Zhen [mailto:zhen_zh...@dfci.harvard.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:18 PM To: 'Kushol Gupta'; CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: RE: [ccp4

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Zhang, Zhen
Hi Kushol, No. The void for the column is 8ml and the whole volume of the column is 24ml. You must be talking about a different column. Zhen -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Kushol Gupta Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:09 PM To:

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Zhang, Zhen
Thanks to everyone for replying. The consensus so far is the protein is interacting with the column and so eluted later than it is supposed to. I do have 150mM NaCl in the running buffer. The success of refolding is questioned by many, which is also my concern. The protein is heavily engineered

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Ian Tickle
On 20 June 2013 20:46, Douglas Theobald wrote: > Well, I tend to think Ian is probably right, that doing things the > "proper" way (vs French-Wilson) will not make much of a difference in the > end. > > Nevertheless, I don't think refining against the (possibly negative) > intensities is a good s

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Kushol Gupta
Isn't 18 mLs into a Superdex 200 10/300 column run out near where the 670kD marker is, just after the void at ~15 mLs? Zhen, did you mean ~500kD rather than 5kD?. Kushol Kushol Gupta, Ph.D. Research Associate - Van Duyne Laboratory Perelman School of Medicine University of Pennsylvania kgu

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Felix Frolow
Measurement worth not very much if simultaneously error of measurement is not considered. 10 counts intensity on the top of 1 counts background is close to nothing. 10 counts on the top of 1 count background is an excellent intensity. Simultaneously with diffraction several types of X-ray sca

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread RHYS GRINTER
Hi Zhen, I'm not sure that binding to a monoclonal antibody is good evidence that the protein is in a natively folded state. I would be suspicious of such a result as the protein could be improperly, which is causing it to interact with the column matrix. It could be useful to use some other te

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Douglas, why don't you try this and publish the results? As Kay already pointed out everybody would be delighted if we can get better data - if including negative intensities leads to better models, I think most crystallographers could not be bot

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
Well, I tend to think Ian is probably right, that doing things the "proper" way (vs French-Wilson) will not make much of a difference in the end. Nevertheless, I don't think refining against the (possibly negative) intensities is a good solution to dealing with negative intensities --- that j

Re: [ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Patrick Loll
If your protein elutes very late, that means it's binding to the column matrix (so all estimates of size go into the trash). Check to see that the ionic strength of buffer is reasonable (equivalent to, say, 150 mM NaCl). If so, then the only solution is to go to a different matrix type. Pat On

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Kay Diederichs
Douglas, as soon as you come up with an algorithm that gives accurate, unbiased intensity estimates together with their standard deviations, everybody will be happy. But I'm not aware of progress in this question (Poisson signal with background) in the last decades - I'd be glad to be proven

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
Kay, I understand the French-Wilson way of currently doing things, as you outline below. My point is that it is not optimal --- we could do things better --- since even French-Wilson accepts the idea of negative intensity measurements. I am trying to disabuse the (very stubborn) view that when

[ccp4bb] Puzzling observation about size exclusion chromatography

2013-06-20 Thread Zhang, Zhen
Dear all, I just observed a puzzling phenomenon when purifying a refolded protein with size exclusion chromatography. The protein was solubilized by 8M Urea and refolded by dialysis against 500mM Arginine in PBS. The protein is 40KDal and is expected to be a trimer. The puzzling part is the pro

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Kay Diederichs
Douglas, the intensity is negative if the integrated spot has a lower intensity than the estimate of the background under the spot. So yes, we are not _measuring_ negative intensities, rather we are estimating intensities, and that estimate may turn out to be negative. In a later step we try to

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Ian Tickle
Douglas, I think you are missing the point that estimation of the parameters of the proper Bayesian statistical model (i.e. the Wilson prior) in order to perform the integration in the manner you are suggesting requires knowledge of the already integrated intensities! I suppose we could iterate, i

[ccp4bb] NAG-NAG

2013-06-20 Thread Monika Pathak
HiPlease can I ask about how can I put NAG to asparagine in coot (I think its 2NAG that I can put in density) and if possible  to refine it in refmac then.Thanks in advance for help RegardsMonikaMonika PathakUniversity of NottinghamNG7 2RD This message and any attachment are intended solely for the

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Jun 20, 2013, at 1:47 PM, Felix Frolow wrote: > Intensity is subtraction: Inet=Iobs - Ibackground. Iobs and Ibackground can > not be negative. Inet CAN be negative if background is higher than Iobs. Just to reiterate, we know that the true value of Inet cannot be negative. Hence, the e

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Felix Frolow
Intensity is subtraction: Inet=Iobs - Ibackground. Iobs and Ibackground can not be negative. Inet CAN be negative if background is higher than Iobs. We do not know how to model background scattering modulated my molecular transform and mechanical motion of the molecule, I recall we have call

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
I still don't see how you get a negative intensity from that. It seems you are saying that in many cases of a low intensity reflection, the integrated spot will be lower than the background. That is not equivalent to having a negative measurement (as the measurement is actually positive, and s

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
How can there be nothing "wrong" with something that is unphysical? Intensities cannot be negative. How could you measure a negative number of photons? You can only have a Gaussian distribution around I=0 if you are using an incorrect, unphysical statistical model. As I understand it, the ph

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Andrew Leslie
The integration programs report a negative intensity simply because that is the observation. Because of noise in the Xray background, in a large sample of intensity estimates for reflections whose true intensity is very very small one will inevitably get some measurements that are negative. Th

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Ian Tickle
The prior knowledge about Is is not merely that they are >= 0, it's more than that: we know they have an (approximate) Wilson distribution. AFAICS incorporating that information at the integration stage would be almost equivalent to the F&W procedure. In fact it would probably not be as good sinc

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Dom Bellini
Sorry, perhaps what I was thinking was to use the Icalc to proportionally push up the Iobs to push the negative Is to positive numbers. But I guess that would bias the Iobs ? Again just questions rather than suggestions. D -Original Message- From: Douglas Theobald [mailto:dtheob.

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
Seems to me that the negative Is should be dealt with early on, in the integration step. Why exactly do integration programs report negative Is to begin with? On Jun 20, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Dom Bellini wrote: > Wouldnt be possible to take advantage of negative Is to extrapolate/estimate > th

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
On Jun 20, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Dale Tronrud wrote: > If you are refining against F's you have to find some way to avoid > calculating the square root of a negative number. That is why people > have historically rejected negative I's and why Truncate and cTruncate > were invented. > > When re

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Dom Bellini
Wouldnt be possible to take advantage of negative Is to extrapolate/estimate the decay of scattering background (kind of Wilson plot of background scattering) to flat out the background and push all the Is to positive values? More of a question rather than a suggestion ... D From: CCP4 bulle

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Ian Tickle
Yes higher R factors is the usual reason people don't like I-based refinement! Anyway, refining against Is doesn't solve the problem, it only postpones it: you still need the Fs for maps! (though errors in Fs may be less critical then). -- Ian On 20 June 2013 17:20, Dale Tronrud wrote: >I

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Dale Tronrud
If you are refining against F's you have to find some way to avoid calculating the square root of a negative number. That is why people have historically rejected negative I's and why Truncate and cTruncate were invented. When refining against I, the calculation of (Iobs - Icalc)^2 couldn'

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Douglas Theobald
Just trying to understand the basic issues here. How could refining directly against intensities solve the fundamental problem of negative intensity values? On Jun 20, 2013, at 11:34 AM, Bernhard Rupp wrote: >> As a maybe better alternative, we should (once again) consider to refine >> again

Re: [ccp4bb] Twinning problem

2013-06-20 Thread Miller, Mitchell D.
You are welcome. Let me also for the benefit of others who may search the archives in the future, let me correct two errors below - (typo and a miss-recollection). Specially, I was thinking that phenix.refine was now able to refine multiple twin laws, but according to Nat Echols on the phenix

Re: [ccp4bb] ctruncate bug?

2013-06-20 Thread Bernhard Rupp
>As a maybe better alternative, we should (once again) consider to refine >against intensities (and I guess George Sheldrick would agree here). I have a simple question - what exactly, short of some sort of historic inertia (or memory lapse), is the reason NOT to refine against intensities? Be

[ccp4bb] AW: Twinning problem

2013-06-20 Thread Herman . Schreuder
Dear Mitch (and Philip and Phil), It is clear that I should give refmac a go with the non-detwinned F's and just the TWIN command. Thank you for your suggestions, Herman -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Miller, Mitchell D. [mailto:mmil...@slac.stanford.edu] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. J

[ccp4bb] Delete waters within radius of defined space

2013-06-20 Thread Mo Wong
Hi all, I'd like to be able to automatically remove modeled/refined water molecules that overlap regions of space that have been flagged as potential "blobs" of interest in an initial difference density map. My questions are: 1) Can I get Coot to output to a file the coordinates it spits out whe

[ccp4bb] Twinning problem

2013-06-20 Thread Herman . Schreuder
Dear Bulletin Board, Prodded by pdb annotators, which are very hesitant to accept coordinate files when their Rfactor does not correspond with our Rfactor, I had a look again into some old data sets, which I suspect are twinned. Below are the results of some twinning tests with the Detwin progr

[ccp4bb] PostDoctoral position available at Sanofi R&D in Paris area

2013-06-20 Thread Alexey Rak
Dear All, I would like to bring to the ccp4b attention that a PostDoc position in bio-physics is available in structural biology labs at Sanofi R&D in Paris area. Please see the announcement below. Best regards, Alexey Alexey RAK, PhD Structure-Design-Informatics / LGCR / Sanofi R&D 13, Quai Jule

Re: [ccp4bb] Hydrogens from Shelxl

2013-06-20 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Swastik, unless this is a structure from neutron data I recommend not to deposit hydrogen atoms at all, because their positions are calculated rather than refined. Best, Tim On 06/20/2013 11:40 AM, Swastik Phulera wrote: > Dear All, I have been

Re: [ccp4bb] announcement: (another) GUI for XDS

2013-06-20 Thread Sebastiano Pasqualato
hi Kay, thanks a lot for the prompt reply. Indeed the problem rises from the fact that the program is launched in a "non-bash" environment, so one would have to add generate_XDS.INP to the PATH of the Mac interface, rather than to the bash PATH. I took the workaround of launching XDSgui from th

Re: [ccp4bb] str solving problem

2013-06-20 Thread Eleanor Dodson
As others say - the Rfactors look pretty good for MR, mine usually start over 50% even with a better model and one hopes they then decrease.. But you say you took the Balbes model into phaser? and I think Balbes automatically runs cycles of refinement so any comment on R factors may not mean much.

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer

2013-06-20 Thread Frank von Delft
No, a kilometer is what they use in shooter video games. On 20/06/2013 08:49, Gerard DVD Kleywegt wrote: So, in SI units it would be a kilometerometer? --dvd On Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Edward A. Berry wrote: an Odometer measures hod?s: wikipedia: The word derives from the Greek words hod?s ("path

[ccp4bb] Hydrogens from Shelxl

2013-06-20 Thread Swastik Phulera
Dear All, I have been working on a high resolution protein structure using Shelx for refinement. In the PDB output by Shelxl the hydrogen atom names are in duplicate which is causing difficulty in PDB deposition. I am aware of the use of shelxpro's B option to prepare for pdb deposition, it unfortu

Re: [ccp4bb] announcement: (another) GUI for XDS

2013-06-20 Thread Sebastiano Pasqualato
Hi Kay, hi all, sorry for the -maybe- naive questions, but i'm struggling to get the GUI for XDS going. I'm on Mac OSX 10.8.4. The dmg installer and the script work nicely. However, I have a couple of problems:: 1. I have placed the generate_XDS.INP script in the XDS directory (/Applications/

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer

2013-06-20 Thread Gerard DVD Kleywegt
So, in SI units it would be a kilometerometer? --dvd On Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Edward A. Berry wrote: an Odometer measures hod?s: wikipedia: The word derives from the Greek words hod?s ("path" or "gateway") and m?tron ("measure"). In countries where Imperial units or US customary units are used, i

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer

2013-06-20 Thread Jrh
Dear Colleagues, If we may combine Ethan's quote from Stout and Jensen with Tim's meter:- With film the estimating of a spot's blackness by eye is not a meter, it originally was a person's eye aided by a reference strip of blackened graduated spot exposures. With measuring devices the subjectivit

Re: [ccp4bb] reversed stereo issue in coot and pymol

2013-06-20 Thread Andreas Förster
Same here. I noticed this is very much dependent on which version of the graphics driver you use. The very latest one (319.17) inverts the stereo (which can sometimes be "fixed" by repeatedly switching between mono and stereo). An older one (310.32) works fine (with a Quadro 600). Andreas