[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 4:45 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Another problem with very old core is that its physical integrity is > often an issue. Cores can crack, being essentially ceramics. I'm > reminded of the CE fishing around in the oil bath of a 7090 with what > amounted to a

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2/2/23 23:07, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Chuck, the CDC 7600 duty cycle integrator is really a work-around against > overheating and has nothing to do with core reliability and/or endurance. > > Core and the data stored in it lives "forever" if the operating constraints > of the medium are

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2/3/23 08:25, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: It's puzzling that temperature would matter. Obviously, when you hit the Curie temperature the data goes away, but for typical magnetic materials that is in the hundreds of degrees. Does the hysteresis curve shift enough at moderate

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 2:41 PM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > Yes. The thresholds shift with temperature. Some companines (DEC?) used > temperature-compensated amplifiers to address the issue. IBM, on some models > like the 1620, kept the cores at a constant (elevated) temperature. Most

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On 02/03/2023 8:25 AM CST Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > It's puzzling that temperature would matter. Obviously, when you hit the > Curie temperature the data goes away, but for typical magnetic materials that > is in the hundreds of degrees. Does the hysteresis curve shift enough at

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Feb 3, 2023, at 1:12 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 2/2/23 21:23, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: >> The actual ferrite core doughnuts do not break down with continued use, BUT >> moisture or mechanical impact or vibration will damage or degrade the >> ferrite cores. Otherwise

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

Chuck, the CDC 7600 duty cycle integrator is really a work-around against overheating and has nothing to do with core reliability and/or endurance. Core and the data stored in it lives "forever" if the operating constraints of the medium are adhered to (temperature being one of the constraints).

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2/2/23 21:23, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > The actual ferrite core doughnuts do not break down with continued use, BUT > moisture or mechanical impact or vibration will damage or degrade the > ferrite cores. Otherwise the ferrite doughnut will live and maintain its > properties "forever".

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

The actual ferrite core doughnuts do not break down with continued use, BUT moisture or mechanical impact or vibration will damage or degrade the ferrite cores. Otherwise the ferrite doughnut will live and maintain its properties "forever". The main cause of core memory mat faults is mechanical

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2023-02-02 8:25 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: As Will pointed out, cores are fairly large storage elements, and their switching speeds are more modest. Not necessarily quite so modest, though -- the CDC 6600 mainframes in 1964 had memory cycling at 1 MHz rate, which means the basic

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Feb 2, 2023, at 10:17 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: > > On 2/1/23 22:10, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: >> >>> On 02/01/2023 3:51 PM CST Paul Koning via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >> ot sure about that. What sort of numbers are we talking about? >>> If all else fails there's core

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2/1/23 22:10, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 02/01/2023 3:51 PM CST Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: ot sure about that. What sort of numbers are we talking about? If all else fails there's core memory, which as far as I remember is pretty much unlimited for both read and write. paul I

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 at 17:13, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: > > On 2023-02-01 10:56, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 1:41 AM emanuel stiebler via cctalk > > mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: > > > retension in case of power off. > > If the power is applied all

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On 02/01/2023 3:51 PM CST Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > ot sure about that. What sort of numbers are we talking about? > > If all else fails there's core memory, which as far as I remember is pretty > much unlimited for both read and write. > > paul I don't know for sure and can't

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023, 2:52 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > On Feb 1, 2023, at 3:20 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > > > On Wed, 1 Feb 2023, Ali via cctalk wrote: > >> But does that matter? If the main purpose is to be able to refresh the > data so it is readable does it matter

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Feb 1, 2023, at 3:20 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Feb 2023, Ali via cctalk wrote: >> But does that matter? If the main purpose is to be able to refresh the data >> so it is readable does it matter that the data is not in the same block as >> long as it is readable?

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, 1 Feb 2023, Ali via cctalk wrote: But does that matter? If the main purpose is to be able to refresh the data so it is readable does it matter that the data is not in the same block as long as it is readable? Ah, but most of that sort of memory has a finite number of cycles, and

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 10:13 AM emanuel stiebler wrote: > On 2023-02-01 10:56, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 1:41 AM emanuel stiebler via cctalk > > mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: > > > retension in case of power off. > > If the power is applied all the time,

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 10:02 AM Ali via cctalk wrote: > > However, it may well be that writing is the only way to refresh cells, > > as reading won't, if I understand flash operation correctly. But > > rewriting a sector or block of a file doesn't usually write back to the > > original, because

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2023-02-01 10:56, Warner Losh wrote: On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 1:41 AM emanuel stiebler via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: retension in case of power off. If the power is applied all the time, the internal controller "can" check the quality of the cells

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> However, it may well be that writing is the only way to refresh cells, > as reading won't, if I understand flash operation correctly. But > rewriting a sector or block of a file doesn't usually write back to the > original, because of the write-leveling firmware in the drive. Chuck, But does

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 1:41 AM emanuel stiebler via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2023-02-01 00:00, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > On 1/31/23 20:16, Ali via cctalk wrote: > > > If you look at the specs for SSDs or any flash medium for that matter, > > they're rated in terms of

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2023-02-01 00:00, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/31/23 20:16, Ali via cctalk wrote: If you look at the specs for SSDs or any flash medium for that matter, they're rated in terms of *write* cycles, which is why you don't want to abuse that. right But, in most OS you can check the SMART

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/31/23 20:16, Ali via cctalk wrote: > If I remember Spinrite would read and write each sector back in Level I or > II and gave you a constant update I still have a license from long > ago I think the last version came out in early 2000s... If you look at the specs for SSDs or any

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 6:22 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I just checked and I can still read without error some 8" disks that I > wrote, what, 45 years ago. They were FM 3740-type format and good > quality, so there's that. > In all my days of doing data

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> If you just need READ, and not WRITE, howzbout COPY *.* NUL > actually > XCOPY *.* NUL /S/E > to include subdirectories But would a red suffice to refresh or do you need to also write? Also, this solution, and Chuck's, while workable for reads would leave you with a blank screen for a long

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/31/23 18:27, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Ali via cctalk wrote: >> Hmmm.. I wonder if there is a program akin to Spinrite that will do >> that on SSDs (i.e. reread and rewrite every byte). I know Steve Gibson >> is working on a new version of Spinrite that will work

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Ali via cctalk wrote: Hmmm.. I wonder if there is a program akin to Spinrite that will do that on SSDs (i.e. reread and rewrite every byte). I know Steve Gibson is working on a new version of Spinrite that will work with SSDs so that could be the solution when it comes

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

I just checked and I can still read without error some 8" disks that I wrote, what, 45 years ago. They were FM 3740-type format and good quality, so there's that. As to the value of the 8080 code that I wrote, not so much. This was only possible because I wrote the disks in a commonly-used

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

>It depends on the drive's firmware. Some do background scans of blocks while >idle. Others do not. Since you >have no way of knowing which is which (or even >when the backgroundscan is done), the safest way to force a >scan is to read >the whole drive... any blocks whose raw error count is

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:44 PM Paul Koning wrote: > > > > On Jan 31, 2023, at 8:38 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 5:03 PM Ali via cctalk > wrote: > > > >>> I thought Flash could only hold the data in them X amount of years > >>> until >

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 31, 2023, at 8:38 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk > wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 5:03 PM Ali via cctalk wrote: > >>> I thought Flash could only hold the data in them X amount of years >>> until >>> the junctions discharge or whatever? It's less permanent than decent >>> quality

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 5:03 PM Ali via cctalk wrote: > > I thought Flash could only hold the data in them X amount of years > > until > > the junctions discharge or whatever? It's less permanent than decent > > quality optical or pro magnetic media? > > > > You have to plug them in every so often

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> I thought Flash could only hold the data in them X amount of years > until > the junctions discharge or whatever? It's less permanent than decent > quality optical or pro magnetic media? > > You have to plug them in every so often to refresh I believe. Does REFRESHING mean reread and rewrite

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 11:37 AM Ethan O'Toole via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > What do you guys think of the "archive-ness" of current solid state > > devices? M.2, NVMe, SSD, or even USB thumb sticks? A friend proposed > > that when one of those starts to go bad, any kind of

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

What do you guys think of the "archive-ness" of current solid state devices? M.2, NVMe, SSD, or even USB thumb sticks? A friend proposed that when one of those starts to go bad, any kind of partial data recovery becomes difficult - but any more difficult than the old traditional magnetic

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/31/23 10:22, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > Regarding the recent GreaseWeazle story in Maryland: > I know the first generation CD/DVD disc are known to "go bad" - the > material itself somehow degrades and becomes unreadable by modern drives. > I'm not sure if that's still the case with

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

Regarding the recent GreaseWeazle story in Maryland: What do you guys think of the "archive-ness" of current solid state devices? M.2, NVMe, SSD, or even USB thumb sticks? A friend proposed that when one of those starts to go bad, any kind of partial data recovery becomes difficult - but any

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

It was thus said that the Great Steve Lewis via cctalk once stated: > Regarding the 1940s high school yearbook article I mentioned: I think it > was 1942 - so the war was still hot. The two boys dropped the typing class > since they had signed up for the Service and had other training >

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> That was a common practice in those days. I remember seeing news stories > about it. I "think" a law was passed in late 80s forbidding that. A lot of > products now say "this box was (proudly) made in the USA. > Will

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On 01/27/2023 3:00 PM CST Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > On 1/27/2023 3:53 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >>> and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, > > > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > Yes, I always got a kick out of these.

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/27/2023 3:53 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:  and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Yes, I always got a kick out of these. Came in an IBM box labeled "Made in USA".  The only thing "Made in USA" was the box.

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

 and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Yes, I always got a kick out of these.  Came in an IBM box labeled "Made in USA".  The only thing "Made in USA" was the box. So, it was honest to label the box, "Made in USA"?

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/27/2023 3:46 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:  and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, Yes, I always got a kick out of these.  Came in an IBM box labeled "Made in USA".  The only thing "Made in USA" was the box. bill

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

There were a couple of outfits (one in Walnut Creek), who made kits to convert Selectrics into computer printers! On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Chris via cctalk wrote: @ Fred - " ...in Walnut Creek..." C: any affiation to WC CD-ROM? Wiki says they were around in ms-dos says. No, not related. The

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

@ Fred - " ...in Walnut Creek..." C: any affiation to WC CD-ROM? Wiki says they were around in ms-dos says.

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/27/2023 2:22 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Computer printers for early microcomputers were hideously expensive. There were a couple of outfits (one in Walnut Creek), who made kits to convert Selectrics into computer printers! There were also the Rochester DynaTyper and the KGS-80

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

THIS! I took a typing class my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls and IBM Selectrics. :D On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls ... And the downside of this was...?

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 27, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: > > On 1/26/23 19:13, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> >>> On Jan 26, 2023, at 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> I take that back about Versatec, CHM has a document from 1970 on their >>> electrostatic

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/2023 11:15 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: It seems as though MOST of us chose the typing class elective. Disproportionately more than the general population. We also probably don't have very many athletes here.  Although lugging this shit around does build up some strength. I

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 19:13, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jan 26, 2023, at 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I take that back about Versatec, CHM has a document from 1970 on their electrostatic printer: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X163.83A I know that Lawrence

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2023-01-27 8:19 a.m., Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 01/27/2023 8:41 AM CST geneb via cctalk wrote: ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls ... g. And the downside of this was...? Will no TIME OF COURSE. :)

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 01/27/2023 8:41 AM CST geneb via cctalk wrote: ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls ... g. And the downside of this was...? They never shut up. EVER. It was like trying to read in the middle of

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On 01/27/2023 8:41 AM CST geneb via cctalk wrote: > > > > ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy > in a room full of girls ... > > g. > And the downside of this was...? Will

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023, 6:56 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Hm. I took typing in 7th grade and was able to type at a solid 70 words > per minute. And it's the only class I flunked in. > > Reason: We had selectrics with all the letters wiped off the keyboards > to encourage us to type properly.

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

C: i took typing as a senior in 1985. The lady was a former military officer, in her 60s or later. Everyone was scared shirtless of her. 1 puerto rican girl who sat up front could do 90wpm. Me, I sat in the back. I'm still a very flawed typist. Iow I suck. Hm. I took typing in 7th

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

e a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters -Original Message- From: geneb via cctalk Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 6:41 AM To: Chuck Guzis via cctalk Cc: geneb Subject: [cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/26/23 16:10, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: In college, for a while, I did some temp work keypunching.  I was not a fast typist, but I managed to outperform many of the other keypunchers

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:53 AM Chris via cctalk wrote: > C: there never was a person worse at sports then me. You have not met me! If I manage to kick or throw a ball, it will go about +/- 1 radian of where I would like it to go. I can run 100m in about 10 minutes. Get the idea? I''ll

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Friday, January 27, 2023, 12:42:46 AM EST, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 8:15 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > We also probably don't have very many athletes here. Although lugging > this shit around does build up some strength. > Ahem. I was league champion

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 11:10:42 PM EST, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

Regarding the 1940s high school yearbook article I mentioned: I think it was 1942 - so the war was still hot. The two boys dropped the typing class since they had signed up for the Service and had other training commitments. On the next page was a list of those who had recently signed up,

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 17:20, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I remember the same from banging on an ASR 33. And if you watch videos of > Linotype machine operators, the same thing is very clear: they show a nice > smooth cadence, not incredibly fast but very steady. The mechanical > structure of those

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 8:15 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > We also probably don't have very many athletes here. Although lugging > this shit around does build up some strength. > Ahem. I was league champion in shotput in 10th grade (43+ feet with an 8lb shot). But yes, mongering vintage

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 4:15 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > We also probably don't have very many athletes here. Not unless you class 'electronics' as a sport. I managed to do so at school many years ago, meaning that while other boys were chassis spheres and prolate spheroids about I was

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

It seems as though MOST of us chose the typing class elective. Disproportionately more than the general population. We also probably don't have very many athletes here. Although lugging this shit around does build up some strength. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com On

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the ability to type in programs faster. Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 26, 2023, at 8:15 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > On 1/26/2023 4:23 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >>> I submit that the Selectric was not the optimum platform with which to >>> set speed records. >> >> Of

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/2023 5:19 PM, Chris via cctalk wrote: There were printers in the 80s, used by the IRS and such, that spit out paper so fast it wasn't safe to be near. This is what I've heard. We had a XEROX at West Point in the 80's that you had to stay out of the room when it was printing and

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/2023 4:23 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I submit that the Selectric was not the optimum platform with which to set speed records. Of course not! Even a daisy wheel is easily capable of twice that. But, we didn't have convenient

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 26, 2023, at 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > I take that back about Versatec, CHM has a document from 1970 on their > electrostatic printer: > > https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X163.83A > > I know that Lawrence Livermore had one and used it quite a

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 16:10, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > In college, for a while, I did some temp work keypunching.  I was not a > fast typist, but I managed to outperform many of the other keypunchers > simply becaause the first thing that I did was

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Trying to restrict the discussion to KSR type units; i.e. ones that came with a keyboard and might be used as a typewriter if operated in local mode. Well. that certainly helps define fastest typewriter. But, is that we would be most

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

The GE Terminet line of printers used a band of letters and multiple hammers to hit the band at just the right time.  I believe they ran at a maximum speed of 1200 Baud or 120 characters per second. Also, many line printers used this method.  Sometimes the band would have multiple copies of

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 16:07, Don R via cctalk wrote: What about the SCM Kleinschmidt spin printer. Yup, I think those did 30 CPS. Jon

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 14:52, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > NEC also made "Thimble" printers.  These uses something similar to a > daisy wheel but were more shaped like a thimble with the letters coming > out up out of the center and the thimble rotated horizontally instead of > vertically like the daisy

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

I take that back about Versatec, CHM has a document from 1970 on their electrostatic printer: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X163.83A I know that Lawrence Livermore had one and used it quite a bit back in the day. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 14:19, Chris via cctalk wrote: > There were printers in the 80s, used by the IRS and such, that spit out > paper so fast it wasn't safe to be near. This is what I've heard. Trying to restrict the discussion to KSR type units; i.e. ones that came with a keyboard and might be used as

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 14:07, Don R wrote: > What about the SCM Kleinschmidt spin printer. The 311? Yes, at 40 cps that would certainly qualify--came in a KSR model as well. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2023-01-26 3:19 p.m., Chris via cctalk wrote: There were printers in the 80s, used by the IRS and such, that spit out paper so fast it wasn't safe to be near. This is what I've heard. Are you sure that was not that green stuff. :) Ben.

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

NEC also made "Thimble" printers.  These uses something similar to a daisy wheel but were more shaped like a thimble with the letters coming out up out of the center and the thimble rotated horizontally instead of vertically like the daisy wheel. On 1/26/2023 4:19 PM, Chris via cctalk wrote:

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

There were printers in the 80s, used by the IRS and such, that spit out paper so fast it wasn't safe to be near. This is what I've heard.

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

Wikipedia claims line printers had achieved 600 lpm by the '50s and have reached 2500 lpm On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 9:56 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 1/26/23 13:23, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > > > Even a

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

What about the SCM Kleinschmidt spin printer. Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On Jan 26, 2023, at 1:56 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 1/26/23 13:23, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> >> Even a daisy wheel is easily

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 13:23, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Even a daisy wheel is easily capable of twice that. > But, we didn't have convenient access to anything better half a century > ago. A couple of years ago, that would have been true. But the

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 26, 2023, at 4:23 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> I submit that the Selectric was not the optimum platform with which to >> set speed records. > > Of course not! > Even a daisy wheel is easily capable of twice that. >

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I submit that the Selectric was not the optimum platform with which to set speed records. Of course not! Even a daisy wheel is easily capable of twice that. But, we didn't have convenient access to anything better half a century ago. I

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/26/23 12:34, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > I believe professionals routinely achieved that speed, certainly on electric > typewriters; non-electric ones would be a bit harder. This may surprise some:

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 2023-01-26 14:15, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: A somewhat similar but more primitive thing is found in the DEC VT71/t typesetting terminal, which has a row of 16 "User Defined Keys" at the top. These have double keycaps, an outer transparent plastic shell that snaps over a smaller

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 26, 2023, at 2:39 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: >> I recently came across the old H.S. yearbook of my grandmother from 1940s, >> and it had a report/atrticle of a typing-class (all female; it

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: I recently came across the old H.S. yearbook of my grandmother from 1940s, and it had a report/atrticle of a typing-class (all female; it mentioned there were two males but they dropped out of the class), and the young ladies had won a regional

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: Sounds like what Apple came up with for its laptops a while ago, though in the most recent generation they dumped the idea. A somewhat similar but more primitive thing is found in the DEC VT71/t typesetting terminal, which has a row of 16

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 26, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk > wrote: > >> Changing keys would be rather hard on a touch typist, don't you think? > > As for what I said of morphing shape of keycaps: I think I recall a > MacBook circa 2018 having something like this - at least one special row >

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> Changing keys would be rather hard on a touch typist, don't you think? As for what I said of morphing shape of keycaps: I think I recall a MacBook circa 2018 having something like this - at least one special row near the top? It had programmatically controlled colorized symbols, and was a

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

> On Jan 25, 2023, at 3:52 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > On 1/25/2023 3:22 PM, John-Paul Stewart via cctalk wrote: >> On 1/25/23 11:53, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: >>> And back on the stenography-keyboard like thing -- what about morphing >>> keys? If a keyboard had

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 12:53 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > A keyboard using small 48x48 pixel OLED screens on each of the keys has > > been done. It was many years ago and they were super expensive at the > > time. As a result they were not commercially

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/25/2023 3:22 PM, John-Paul Stewart via cctalk wrote: On 1/25/23 11:53, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: And back on the stenography-keyboard like thing -- what about morphing keys? If a keyboard had actual screens on the keys, and the keys change (the actual symbol) based on the context of

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 12:23 PM John-Paul Stewart via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 1/25/23 11:53, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > > > > And back on the stenography-keyboard like thing -- what about morphing > > keys? If a keyboard had actual screens on the keys, and the keys

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/25/23 11:53, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > > And back on the stenography-keyboard like thing -- what about morphing > keys? If a keyboard had actual screens on the keys, and the keys change > (the actual symbol) based on the context of whatever you're doing. I know > we have macros and

[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man

On 1/25/23 09:46, ben via cctalk wrote: > Where is is the IMPLES logic function? EQV? > Lets get updated from 1960's algol, bfore even talking about new stuff, > like lower case latin letters. > That includes the keyboard and display. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_display_code It was part

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