Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Yeah! 5 presidents, 17 shutdowns; all negotiated . . . except you-know-who -Herman Cain . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Vivec wrote: > > WOOT!! THe GOP is going for all the marbles here, Impeach the President > while they hold the world's economy to ransom! > > "If a president sits by and

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

The Senate bill passed by a vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against (except for Jim Bunning, who did not vote) The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Re

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Childish. You can easily turn it around and apply it to the passing of the bill. Don't you have any thinkers on your side anymore? . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Vivec wrote: > > "A threat is an expression of intention to inflict harm on others unless > the target of the threat agrees to d

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

WOOT!! THe GOP is going for all the marbles here, Impeach the President while they hold the world's economy to ransom! "If a president sits by and allows the world economy to collapse, that president might be held to have violated his oath. If a president refuses to sit by, the same charge can be

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Sam wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Vivec wrote: > > > > > Yes Sam, it seems that at a town hall meeting Obama seemed to imply that > > ALL talks would be televised publicly, and this was not done. > > > > > > > http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

It actually gets better, and matches my thoughts on the matter as it has played out so far: "What makes the House Republicans' decision to shut down the federal government an immoral and unconscionable "threat" rather than an ordinary political disagreement? The answer is simple. House Republican

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

"A threat is an expression of intention to inflict harm on others unless the target of the threat agrees to do what the person making the threat demands. A threat uses coercion rather than persuasion to effect change. As a general rule, democratic governments do not negotiate with those who threat

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Vivec wrote: > > Yes Sam, it seems that at a town hall meeting Obama seemed to imply that > ALL talks would be televised publicly, and this was not done. > > > http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/517/health-care-reform-public-sessions

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Yes Sam, it seems that at a town hall meeting Obama seemed to imply that ALL talks would be televised publicly, and this was not done. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/517/health-care-reform-public-sessions-C-SPAN/ -- Some members have expressed trepidat

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

DANA BASH: You all talked about children with cancer unable to go to clinical trials. The House is presumably going to pass a bill that funds at least the NIH. Given what you’ve said, will you at least pass that? And if not, aren’t you playing the same political games that Republicans are? HARRY

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/01/democrats-reid-pelosi-healthcare-cspan.html http://www.humanevents.com/2010/01/06/harry-reids-corrupt-christmas-present/ http://latimesblogs.latimes.

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Really? . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 2:49 PM, PT wrote: > > On 10/2/2013 2:39 PM, Vivec wrote: > > > > Ok. If one were to look at that sort of thing all the time, and believe > > without question...then I see where you would get the ideas that you > have, > > Sam. > > :-\ > > > > It's a cognitive

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

I can't tell you apart from zeep. Are you the same person? . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Vivec wrote: > > Ok. If one were to look at that sort of thing all the time, and believe > without question...then I see where you would get the ideas that you have, > Sam. > :-\ > > It's a cognitive

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

What on earth are you talking about? Do you think two page counts represent conflicting cognitions or do you think MM faked news clips? . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Vivec wrote: > > Ok. If one were to look at that sort of thing all the time, and believe > without question...then I see w

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Interesting article from the Washington Post about how the shutdown is impacting scientific research. Bluntly put if it lasts much longer the effect is going to be castastrophic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/shutdown-sequestration-cuts-zap-scientists-and-researchers/2013/1

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

It's up to about 13,000 now. It's like the democrat version of the constitution, a living document. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox < zaph0d.b33bl3b...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Wait, one talking head said 1500 pages, another said 1502, and then another > said 1500. They can't

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Gel said he didn't remember. It happened, so he obviously wasn't paying attention or far enough away. If you find it funny that must mean you don't believe it. That is strange since one would need to live in another country or lived in a cave to have missed it. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 2:25 PM,

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

On 10/2/2013 2:39 PM, Vivec wrote: > > Ok. If one were to look at that sort of thing all the time, and believe > without question...then I see where you would get the ideas that you have, > Sam. > :-\ > > It's a cognitive dissonance issue at the moment, I think. With a lot of > things. All the

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Ok. If one were to look at that sort of thing all the time, and believe without question...then I see where you would get the ideas that you have, Sam. :-\ It's a cognitive dissonance issue at the moment, I think. With a lot of things. On 2 October 2013 14:29, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > > Wait,

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Wait, one talking head said 1500 pages, another said 1502, and then another said 1500. They can't agree on how many pages it is so it must be zero pages. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA > > A video posted by Michelle Malkin that includes not

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA A video posted by Michelle Malkin that includes nothing but sound bites? That is what you are banking on? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Sam wrote: > > http://michellemalkin.com/2009/10/28/video-obamacare-behind-closed-doors/ > > . > > >

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

And the First Lady can't tweet. Puppet masters are off. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > Then again there are some good things that have happened because of the > shutdown: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/kkk-rally-canceled_n_4024192.html?utm_hp_ref=mo

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Then again there are some good things that have happened because of the shutdown: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/kkk-rally-canceled_n_4024192.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular KKK Rally At Gettysburg Canceled Because Of Government Shutdown A Ku Klux Klan rally planned for Saturday, Oct. 5 has

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Maybe in your AU that''s the case, but us earthlings allow folks to name the planets. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > Apparently the concept of 'alternate universes' is lost on you. We would > all live on Earth, just different versions of it. > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

To be fair, Sam could live in an alternate universe and also live on a different planet. That, in fact, might explain some odd beliefs he has about the Earth. Cheers, Judah On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > Apparently the concept of 'alternate universes' is lost on you.

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/10/28/video-obamacare-behind-closed-doors/ . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Vivec wrote: > > That does not match ANYTHING I saw on television during the entire process > of getting this approved. I saw Bohner talk, Obama, Pelosi and several > other people come

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Apparently the concept of 'alternate universes' is lost on you. We would all live on Earth, just different versions of it. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Sam wrote: > > I do. > > What's the name of the planet you live on? > > > . > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > >

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

That works only because CA welfare is paying the tab. What of the middle class making over $50k? . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Eric Roberts < ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > > http://www.policymic.com/articles/44597/obamacare-california-releases-lower- > than-expected-rates-on

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

I do. What's the name of the planet you live on? . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > When I read responses like this from you, Sam, I cannot help but think you > actually live in an alternate universe. > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Sam wrote: > > > > > The bi

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Actually, the law passed against the peoples wishes is what caused so many Democrats to lose seats in the House. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > The point being is that this has been an issue for a while. Effectively the > last presidential election was in part ove

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

The horror the horror! At least my local brew pub may not be affected. Feel free to join me there some time: http://www.badwolfbrewingcompany.com/ On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Vivec wrote: > > > http://www.examiner.com/article/government-shutdown-could-hit-craft-beer-industry > > The shut

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

"20 percent lower in 2014 than previously expected" What she means by previously expected is what the CBO projected for 2016. Reality: It's gone way up everywhere. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Eric Roberts < ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/201

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

http://www.examiner.com/article/government-shutdown-could-hit-craft-beer-industry The shut down could affect the Beer industry. This shit just got serious. :( ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/A

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

That does not match ANYTHING I saw on television during the entire process of getting this approved. I saw Bohner talk, Obama, Pelosi and several other people come out and face the press and the public about what was happening. There was so much dissection of the bill and different views on what

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

When I read responses like this from you, Sam, I cannot help but think you actually live in an alternate universe. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Sam wrote: > > The bill was shoved down our throats in the middle of the night behind > locked doors, I think it was Christmas eve. Not one Republ

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/44597/obamacare-california-releases-lower- than-expected-rates-on-obamacare-debunking-conservative-myths -Original Message- From: Sam [mailto:sammyc...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 10:57 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: One political part

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2013pres/07/20130718a.html -Original Message- From: Sam [mailto:sammyc...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 10:57 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: One political party holding US to ransom... Source . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Eric Robe

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

Just about every item in the ACA was originally proposed by republicans. It'sd essentially Bob Dole's alternative to the Clinton Healthcare plan. Chuck Grassley was the author of the individual mandate... Just because no republicans voted for it doesn't mean that it was shoved down anyone's throa

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Shutdown overreach: More guards at WWII memorial than Benghazi; Park Service closes park it doesn't run The National Park Service is sending so many officials out to shut down federal parks from visiting Americans that at this rate it might have to suspend furloughs if the government closure con

They Closed What? 10 Government Closings That Hurt Science : Discovery News

http://news.discovery.com/history/us-history/10-things-closed-during-the-government-shutdown-131001.htm#mkcpgn=emnws1 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?t

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Source . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Eric Roberts < ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > Only in your mind Sam...all of the costs from the states that have already > implemented the exchanges have come in 20% lower than initially projected. > Oh Vanna... > > -Original Message--

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > The point being is that this has been an issue for a while. Effectively the > last presidential election was in part over this. Moreover the SCOTUS has > already weighted in on the ACA. > Obama pretty much said that, "I won so I can do w

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

The bill was shoved down our throats in the middle of the night behind locked doors, I think it was Christmas eve. Not one Republican voted for it and the majority of the people never approved it. The reason it can't be overturned is because you need a super majority. They added that because they

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

I appreciate it, Bruce, but I don't believe that you have to keep your opinions to yourself and I hope that is not what you took away from it. Rather, I'd ask you to choose your words more carefully to express what you really mean. At least, I'm going under the assumption that you don't really bel

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

Only in your mind Sam...all of the costs from the states that have already implemented the exchanges have come in 20% lower than initially projected. Oh Vanna... -Original Message- From: Sam [mailto:sammyc...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:08 AM To: cf-community Subject:

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

The point being is that this has been an issue for a while. Effectively the last presidential election was in part over this. Moreover the SCOTUS has already weighted in on the ACA. Recent CNBC (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101064954) polled two different groups, using "ObamaCare" for one and "Affordab

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Since you are actually mature with your response to my opinion of the woman, I'll offer a formal apology for calling her a wretched whore. From now on I'll keep my opinions to myself regarding certain individuals. Besides, this is not a private forum, and in retrospect this type of comment coul

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Also, Bruce, could we please leave out the misogyny? I know you don't care for Pelosi and that is fine. Calling her a "wretched whore" is not ok. Judah On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Bruce Sorge wrote: > > This bill was shoved down our throat. There is a large segment of the > population tha

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Perhaps you were deployed when the law was brought about and didn't read the news at the time, but no, there was no "shoving down our throats". There was massive amounts of compromise, all of it heading to the right. It started with a previously endorsed Republican plan, then had several rounds of

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

I am well aware of this. On Oct 2, 2013, at 10:44 AM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > Calling Pelosi a 'whore' might be considered slander by some. While you > have every right to say what you want about her, that does not make you > immune to any repercussions that may arise from what you say. > > >

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Calling Pelosi a 'whore' might be considered slander by some. While you have every right to say what you want about her, that does not make you immune to any repercussions that may arise from what you say. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Bruce Sorge wrote: > > Thanks. IT's one of those silly

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Thanks. IT's one of those silly things I fought for on several occasions. It's called the First Amendment. On Oct 2, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Jerry Milo Johnson wrote: > > Yes, you can. > > But I can choose not to listen to people who do so. > > Enjoy your verbal freedom. > >

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Yes, you can. But I can choose not to listen to people who do so. Enjoy your verbal freedom. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Bruce Sorge wrote: > > No Jerry, I cannot tell you for a fact that that is what she is, it's just > what I choose to call her. I can call anyone anything I want just

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

I have a life Larry, a very very good like that I have no complaints about. On Oct 2, 2013, at 9:27 AM, "Larry C. Lyons" wrote: > > Really, you mean that the ACA did not receive the majority of votes in the > House of Representatives? Or did the ACA NOT get the majority of votes in > the Sena

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

No Jerry, I cannot tell you for a fact that that is what she is, it's just what I choose to call her. I can call anyone anything I want just like you can. On Oct 2, 2013, at 9:17 AM, Jerry Milo Johnson wrote: > > Bruce, fuck you. > > I do not care for Polosi at ALL, but your term for her i

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

The question was , do I agree that shutting down the US indefinitely should be accepted form of politics? My answer was that both parties should do what's best for the country….. By extension that means no, shutting down the government is NOT a good idea. My apologies. From now on I will break

Re: Interactive graph showing temperature changes in our lifetime

No, you are looking at half a degree. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Vivec wrote: > > So let's half everything. > > You are still looking at a 2 to 3 degree rise in temperature. > > On 2 October 2013 09:11, Sam wrote: > > > > > Odd, those projections are based on the 2007 report that was

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Really, you mean that the ACA did not receive the majority of votes in the House of Representatives? Or did the ACA NOT get the majority of votes in the Senate. And wasn't there a major election recently in which the ACA was an issue. HOW is this shoving it down people's throats. Face it. YOU lo

Re: Interactive graph showing temperature changes in our lifetime

So let's half everything. You are still looking at a 2 to 3 degree rise in temperature. On 2 October 2013 09:11, Sam wrote: > > Odd, those projections are based on the 2007 report that was based on > models that were all wrong. The new projections are much lower. Remember > the "actual" increa

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Bruce, fuck you. I do not care for Polosi at ALL, but your term for her is, I believe, incorrect and dangerour. Do you have any proof, or even rumours, that she is what you called her? On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Bruce Sorge wrote: > > This bill was shoved down our throat. There is a la

Re: Interactive graph showing temperature changes in our lifetime

Odd, those projections are based on the 2007 report that was based on models that were all wrong. The new projections are much lower. Remember the "actual" increase was only .05 or something like that. . On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Vivec wrote: > > > http://www.theguardian.com/environment

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Vivec wrote: > > All the polls say that the US is in favour of a new healthcare plan. > That's cute. They are in favor of a new healthcare paln, anything but Obamacare. > The reports are saying that the costs are actually lower than what were > first projected.

And in Italy, more madness in government!

"Democracy" ? http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/02/amanpour-explains-77-year-old-disgraced-berlusconi-turns-italy-into-a-political-circus-maximus/ "In case you thought the United States was the only country flailing, and failing, at governing itself, imagine a world where the government can

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Lol...no that is *not* what I asked. That's the question you answered :-) I asked whether you think the Republicans are going about it the right way. I asked if you would be in full support of this method if it is used by Democrats in the future to defund a bill that was passed by Republicans AND

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

Wrong... Vivec asked... " You think what the GOP is doing is the right way to go about it? So if a Republican wins and decides to pass a bill that the Democrats don't agree with, you agree that shutting down the US indefinitely should be an accepted form of politics? Or is it just this time, bec

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

Answer the question Bruce... -Original Message- From: Bruce Sorge [mailto:sor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:13 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: One political party holding US to ransom... I believe that both parties should do what's best for the country, not themsel

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

Bullshit...it was passed by congress and its constitutionality upheld by the SCOTUS. Just because you don't like it and just because the fascist republicans didn't vote for it when they were in the minority doesn't mean it was shoved down your throat. They also tried 49 times to repeal Obamacare

RE: One political party holding US to ransom...

There is nothing they can do to defund Obamacare. The funds for it have already been allocated aka...it's already funded. This is yet another futile attempt to waste taxpayers money and put the economy at risk by a bunch of sore losers that can't get past the fact that they lost. 69% of the cou

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

His I dodge it? You asked what i wanted them to do. Sent from my iPhone 4S. > On Oct 2, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Vivec wrote: > > > Nice way to dodge the question ;-) > > "Estimates by an economic consulting firm put the cost of the government > shutdown at about $12.5 million per hour." > > >

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Nice way to dodge the question ;-) "Estimates by an economic consulting firm put the cost of the government shutdown at about $12.5 million per hour." On 2 October 2013 08:12, Bruce Sorge wrote: > > I believe that both parties should do what's best for the country, not > themselves or their

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

I believe that both parties should do what's best for the country, not themselves or their lobbyists, but that'll never happen. Sent from my iPhone 4S. > On Oct 2, 2013, at 7:54 AM, Vivec wrote: > > > All the polls say that the US is in favour of a new healthcare plan. > The reports are sa

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

All the polls say that the US is in favour of a new healthcare plan. The reports are saying that the costs are actually lower than what were first projected. You think what the GOP is doing is the right way to go about it? So if a Republican wins and decides to pass a bill that the Democrats don'

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

This bill was shoved down our throat. There is a large segment of the population that never wanted it, but those in Capitol Hill don't really care what we want. They only care what they want. The only time they really care what we the people want is when it's re-election time, which is coming u

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Why should the Democrats not fund the plan that they put in place? This plan was voted for, it was agreed upon and it has stood up to all the normal challenges that the GOP could bring against it. Why does the GOP feel it has the right to shut down a country, and affect the entire worlds economic

Interactive graph showing temperature changes in our lifetime

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/interactive/2013/sep/27/climate-change-how-hot-lifetime-interactive#b10g02f20b13 Very interesting. Over the last years I've lived through close to a 1 degree rise in temperatures. That's...sobering. 0_0 ~

Re: One political party holding US to ransom...

Where in this article does it say one political party holding US to ransom? Here is a quote in case you missed this part: On Capitol Hill there were signs only of the two sides digging into their respective corners, with the House Republican Conference having what several sources described as

One political party holding US to ransom...

This seems absolutely nuts. http://www.businessinsider.com/government-shutdown-turning-into-debt-ceiling-standoff-2013-10 So this may cause a second crash of the US economy, and everything that goes along with that. It's a level of political blackmail that I never thought was possible. The GOP i