Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum
Some people make a big technology decision based on TechEmpower Framework
Benchmarks (TFB) (round10)
[ https://www.techempower.com/blog/2015/04/21/framework-benchmarks-round-10/
]
Should techempower.com framework benchmarks be taken seriously ?
Hi,
Reading through all the discussion I don't get which features you are
actually missing. I love luminus and did a lot with it, however, for me it
was missing some standard stuff, that's why I put together closp, which is
just another leiningen template providing some more features out of
Because, in my case, I'm going to need a website shortly that I can use to
sell Cursive. I'd really like to use Clojure for that. I could use Rails or
Django which would make the site itself trivial, except I don't know either
of them and then I'm stuck maintaining something in a language and
Short version: Old version of the lib was on the classpath.
Longer version: `lein with-profiles -user whatevertask` to disable the user
profile apparently doesn't work.
I was using:
export CLASSPATH=$(lein with-profiles -user classpath) java clojure.main
Figured I had ruled out my tools, since
Hi,
Am Sonntag, 3. Mai 2015 11:38:14 UTC+2 schrieb g vim:
On 03/05/2015 05:24, Sean Corfield wrote:
On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Mark Engelberg mark.en...@gmail.com
javascript:
mailto:mark.en...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
Clojure is great for creating new, disruptive web
I really like what you said here Mark:
From a technological standpoint, I think we're there. The things we most
need are informational resources and higher-level shared resources, such as
UI widgets. For example:
I fully agree. I don't think we've moved in a wrong direction at all. Just
On 03/05/2015 19:01, Hildeberto Mendonça wrote:
I would recommend watching the video Simple made easy by Rich Hickey:
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy . By watching this
video, I realized there is no sense writing frameworks in Clojure. Not
because the video says so, but
If it is more than the sum of its components, what does it add?
What are you missing that couldn't be done in a component or template, that
other languages have because they have frameworks?
On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 1:02:56 AM UTC+2, g vim wrote:
On 03/05/2015 23:55, James Reeves wrote:
On 3 May 2015 at 23:36, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I do program in Clojure. Exclusively at the moment as I'm currently
free to work on my own startup project. I'm using Luminus and enjoy it so I
didn't start this thread out of dissatisfaction with Luminus itself but
more from a sense
On 4 May 2015 at 00:51, Jason Whitlark ja...@whitlark.org wrote:
While I agree that g vim's metrics aren't terribly meaningful, the
conclusion he's arriving at is an important one. I've heavily used Clojure
in production for years, and there have been a number of times where having
to hand
@deepbluelambda:
Thank you for bringing this up! I am, like you, a huge fan of Clojure
and Free/Libre Open Source Software (and building community).
In the interest of full disclosure I on the Software Freedom
Conservancy [0] Evaluation Committee and I am a member of Software in
the Public
On 4 May 2015 at 00:02, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
I posted some figures at the beginning of this thread where I was
comparing frameworks, not components. A framework is more than the sum of
it's components so I don't think comparing Ring and Compojure to Phoenix or
Play is relevant.
A shopping cart. All the available Java ones require a J2EE stack.
On 3 May 2015 at 21:49, Sven Richter sver...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi,
Am Sonntag, 3. Mai 2015 11:38:14 UTC+2 schrieb g vim:
On 03/05/2015 05:24, Sean Corfield wrote:
On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Mark Engelberg
On 03/05/2015 23:55, James Reeves wrote:
On 3 May 2015 at 23:36, gvim gvi...@gmail.com
mailto:gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I do program in Clojure. Exclusively at the moment as I'm
currently free to work on my own startup project. I'm using Luminus
and enjoy it so I didn't start
I've got a CA on file since the early days, but *ahem* hadn't made any
contributions. I don't have the jira-developers permission which seems to
be needed to change fields on my ticket/patch.
http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1673
Thanks,
~Jason (jwhitlark)
--
You received this
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 4:18:26 PM UTC-7, James Reeves wrote:
On 4 May 2015 at 00:02, gvim gvi...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
I posted some figures at the beginning of this thread where I was
comparing frameworks, not components. A framework is more than the sum of
it's components so I
I recently did some research into web frameworks on Github. Here's what I
found
I've noticed that you didn't include pedestal
(https://github.com/pedestal/pedestal). I don't have personal experience
with it, but I think it is aimed at providing framework-like functionality
with a Clojure
Permissions bumped up on your JIRA account named 'jwhitlark'.
Andy
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Jason Whitlark ja...@whitlark.org wrote:
I've got a CA on file since the early days, but *ahem* hadn't made any
contributions. I don't have the jira-developers permission which seems to
be
Re gsoc, last year Cognitect was a receiving organization for the funds and
distributed them to students for travel to Clojure conferences. This incurs
some cost on Cognitect for the accounting effort but overall seemed worth it.
We also offer free tickets to all gsoc students for any Clojure
On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Sven Richter sver...@googlemail.com
wrote:
Reading through all the discussion I don't get which features you are
actually missing. I love luminus and did a lot with it, however, for me it
was missing some standard stuff, that's why I put together closp, which
I did ask Peter Norvig to show support for Clojure with simple programs
like he did with his Python spellchecker. He could even use Clojure for a
new edition of AIMA. But I am not sure he is going to do that.
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Tom Marble tmar...@gmail.com wrote:
@deepbluelambda:
Sven Richter wrote:
For the rest I agree with what is mostly said here, the beauty of
clojure lies in the nature of small composable building blocks and the
same goes for frameworks, so, basically it's all there, one just has to
put it together.
If composable building blocks are superior to
On 03/05/2015 05:24, Sean Corfield wrote:
On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.com
mailto:mark.engelb...@gmail.com wrote:
Clojure is great for creating new, disruptive web models, but what's
the easiest path to creating something that can be done trivially
2015-05-03 16:27 GMT+02:00 Fluid Dynamics a2093...@trbvm.com:
So, basically, Clojure *is* the framework? :)
Exactly! As is any language that you choose to work in. That means that
buying into at least one framework is nessecary to get started with
programming anyway.
With clojure, the
Hi Chap,
There isn't, unfortunately, a good way to modify systems after they have
are started. I have put a fair amount of thought into this but never come
up with a solution I was satisfied with.
In your case, I think I would suggest creating one system just to load the
configuration data
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 2:37 AM, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/05/2015 05:24, Sean Corfield wrote:
Perfection is the enemy of the good (Gustave Flaubert).
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. (Aristotle)
gvim
“What you're supposed to do when you don't like a thing is
To me, the idea of a framework is embodied by a set processing tools,
whose primary design goal is to work best in concert with each other.
I rather enjoy working with libraries, whose primary design goal is to work
well in any technology stack. I don't think those are mutually exclusive,
but
The industry has been moving against frameworks for 15 years now. The peak
of the monolithic framework craze was Struts, back in 2000. After that,
people started craving something less bloated. That's why the whole
industry was so excited when Rails emerged in 2004. Bruce Eckel summed up
the
On 03/05/2015 14:39, larry google groups wrote:
The industry has been moving against frameworks for 15 years now. The
peak of the monolithic framework craze was Struts, back in 2000. After
that, people started craving something less bloated. That's why the
whole industry was so excited when
And that's the power of a system written in Clojure. You're not forced into
some industry standard way of doing things that may not fit your needs.
When I read Colin's report on Clojure at RoomKey
http://www.colinsteele.org/post/23103789647/against-the-grain-aws-clojure-startup
or Paul talking
Clojure + developer's skill + existing libraries + custom code is the
framework.
On 3 May 2015 15:27, Fluid Dynamics a2093...@trbvm.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 2:12:02 AM UTC-4, Sven Richter wrote:
Hi,
Reading through all the discussion I don't get which features you are
actually
Hi!
I'm happy to announce the second alpha of catacumba, the asynchronous and
non-blocking web toolkit for Clojure build on top of ratpack[1] and
netty[2].
This release is focused in add a great a mount of features missing from the
first release and improve some internals for make it more
In my experience many applications are built using web frameworks because
the often complex data models of corporate apps require significant UI for
administration and UI or API for data entry. The application gets written
using a language / framework that is optimized around that. Clojure is
Tim,
I agree that porting enough of rpython to run pixie seems like the best way
to get started on a given bare-metal platform. Not least because pypy's
contributors would certainly be sympathetic to that effort.
Still, a piece that I'd really love to see is, what I call rclojure: That
is, tools
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 2:12:02 AM UTC-4, Sven Richter wrote:
Hi,
Reading through all the discussion I don't get which features you are
actually missing. I love luminus and did a lot with it, however, for me it
was missing some standard stuff, that's why I put together closp, which is
Mr Herwig
That said: I'd love to see a set of well-maintained, well-documented
project templates to emerge from a common brand, for the benefit of
beginners and 10h website creators.
THIS is exactly what I was discussing right now with a friend.
I think you nailed it.
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at
Extending a little more on Herwig's previous idea, a good Clojure
framework could be a collection of schemas, protocols and interfaces. A
ring for the whole stack.
Creating our stack will be a matter of composing our web pipeline with our
desired libraries. Even templates could become
Hi Colin,
Regarding payment I'd choose something like stripe or whatever fits your
needs and look for a clojure api or wrapper around a java api. Implementing
payment stuff yourself might get you in a lot of legal trouble anyhwere in
the world.
However, I'd agree that there may be the need
+1 to what Sven said.
To quote from Rails is Omakase
http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2012/rails-is-omakase.html
Rails is omakase. A team of chefs picked out the ingredients, designed the
APIs, and arranged the order of consumption on your behalf according to
their idea of what would make
This can be read in a manner opposite to what you intended:
There's one factor missing from this discussion which is framework
community. I think there's immense value in the community factor which
emerges when a web framework gains a lot of mindshare. From what I've
read in this thread
No, it isn't. And never has this author proven that programmers with
bipolar personality are programming more LISP then other languages.
Many larger libraries in the Clojure community are well documented and
finished-off properly.
Web frameworks have been tried and not been picked up. Users
I could add something about NodeJS arena:
There are web frameworks, but the most popular (AFAIK) way is the use of:
- Express for MVC routing and middleware management (before middle ware
management was Connect task), and template engine coordination
- NPM ecosystem for any library or middleware
Here in Morocco, the dominant web technology is... PHP. Tadaaa !
The're not even considering Raills or anything more 'advanced' for that matter.
It's really an evolution ladder. People got on the 'framework' 'one fit for all
band after trying
things like PHP, JSP, ... and now realizing that it
Perhaps we need to see an example of a minimalistic/modular approach that
_has_ won out.
Node's express has 5k commits, 177 contribs, 18k stars. Possibly the
most popular node framework out there. Tagline?
Fast, unopinionated, minimalist web framework for node.
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at
Hello Gvim,
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 11:37 AM, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/05/2015 05:24, Sean Corfield wrote:
On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.com
mailto:mark.engelb...@gmail.com wrote:
Clojure is great for creating new, disruptive web models,
Fipp is a better pretty printer for Clojure (and now/soon ClojureScript!)
https://github.com/brandonbloom/fipp
Please give it a try and let me know how it goes.
Version 0.6.0 includes...
- Several nice performance improvements via Transducers
- A totally rewritten Edn printer with tagged
The web development industry as reflected in job postings at
Indeed.co.uk is still dominated by the likes of Rails, Django, Laravel,
Zend, Symfony Spring so I'm not sure how you've concluded that there's
been a 15-year trend towards composition.
That is a good point, though I would also
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