Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I must be a dinosaur - at least a minimalist - but I don't
> understand the big deal about library support that has been
> mentioned a lot here.
For Go library support isn't very important -- just one argument more
in favor of more exotic languages, that m
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
I think some possibility to send messages would be great. I could swear
I saw MogoBot do this, but I couldn't find anything in the KGSGtp
documentation.
Hi,
I believe MoGo sent its messages in the "version" string. Name and
version of your program are the only stri
hahaha
one problem though... i can't easily determine the number of letters that
are inside the parenthesis...
maybe this is better:
XML
That way there can be no confusion. I love XML, it is so easy.
On Nov 13, 2007 6:12 PM, Andrés Domínguez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2007/11/14, Don Dailey
On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 04:10:54PM -0500, John Tromp wrote:
> > > Yes, you can generalize pseudoliberties by extending them
> > > with another field, such that if the (summed) pseudoliberty field
> > > is between 1 and 4, then the other (summed) field will tell you if all
> > these
> > > are coming
2007/11/14, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Good, I wouldn't want it without XML libraries.
>
> Is there any versions that use XML for writing code?I want to be
> able to use xml tags instead of parenthesis:
>
>
>
> Then it will much more readable - which is one of the strengths of xml.
Sounds like you want to write a Go program in XSLT!
Ian
On Nov 13, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Don Dailey wrote:
Good, I wouldn't want it without XML libraries.
Is there any versions that use XML for writing code?I want to be
able to use xml tags instead of parenthesis:
Then it will much more
Good, I wouldn't want it without XML libraries.
Is there any versions that use XML for writing code?I want to be
able to use xml tags instead of parenthesis:
Then it will much more readable - which is one of the strengths of xml.
- Don
Benjamin Teuber wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2007 12:18
On Nov 14, 2007 12:18 AM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Common lisp? Does it have xml libraries?
>
> - Don
http://www.google.de/search?q=common+lisp+xml
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computer-go mailing list
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Common lisp? Does it have xml libraries?
- Don
Stefan Nobis wrote:
> "Chris Fant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
>> I would like some language recommendations.
>>
>
> So I would suggest Common Lisp: The programmable programming
> language. I think it's the single most flexible langua
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007, Don Dailey wrote:
I must be a dinosaur - at least a minimalist - but I don't understand
the big deal about library support that has been mentioned a lot here.
:-)
My Go program doesn't use any libraries except the standard C
libraries.Since it's written in C, I ha
On Nov 13, 2007 10:18 PM, Nick Apperson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With the next generation of C++ with
> variadic templates I think C++ may overtake Lisp for metaprogramming, but I
> don't know enough to really make that claim.
I don't know about variadic templates, but in general it is almost
On Nov 13, 2007 5:01 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I must be a dinosaur - at least a minimalist - but I don't understand
> the big deal about library support that has been mentioned a lot here.
> My Go program doesn't use any libraries except the standard C
> libraries.Since
I must be a dinosaur - at least a minimalist - but I don't understand
the big deal about library support that has been mentioned a lot here.
My Go program doesn't use any libraries except the standard C
libraries.Since it's written in C, I have access to hundreds of
libraries for C, but I
2007/11/13, Hellwig Geisse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 20:17 -0800, steve uurtamo wrote:
> > C
> > garbage collection: free().
>
> Well, that's not garbage collection.
Ok, Java don't have garbage collection: don't close open files, sockets
etc. only frees memory (maybe never) but
Yeah,
I've only dabbled in Lisp, but it seems like a great language to me. It
is on my list of languages to learn. I couldn't agree with you more about
Java and C# being about prohibition. With the next generation of C++ with
variadic templates I think C++ may overtake Lisp for metaprogramm
On 11/12/07, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I started experimenting with implementing own Go robot and first I
> created a generic infrastructure that various engines should be able to
> plug into. Currently, a random player and a straightforward MonteCarlo
> bot (plays as zzg
On Nov 13, 2007 4:05 PM, Jason House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 3:57 PM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 03:32:03PM -0500, John Tromp wrote:
> > > On Nov 13, 2007 2:48 PM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm now som
> > Yes, you can generalize pseudoliberties by extending them
> > with another field, such that if the (summed) pseudoliberty field
> > is between 1 and 4, then the other (summed) field will tell you if all
> these
> > are coming from a single true liberty.
>
> Can you elaborate on this?
Let me po
"Nick Apperson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> And I don't htink I missed the point about productivity. I've heard
> that argument time and again. That is fine. I personally find that
> with the STL in C++ and with the ability to write my own templates,
> I can write algorithms in fewer lines of
On Nov 13, 2007 4:05 PM, Jason House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You're right, that would work.
>
> PS: I think that last one should be:
> group.pseudlibs <= 4 && is_liberty(group, as_coord(group.xyzzy
> /group.pseudlibs))
>
I take that back... Or at least partially. It won't work if it's pos
"Álvaro Begué" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If you learn how to use the STL containers in C++ and perhaps shared
> pointers from boost, you don't need GC and I doubt anything can give
> you much higher productivity.
I know the STL quite well and used Boost libraries since some of the
first beta
On Nov 13, 2007 3:57 PM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 03:32:03PM -0500, John Tromp wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 2007 2:48 PM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm now somewhat torn. The speedup from using pseudo-liberty counts
> > > could be huge, estim
On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 03:32:03PM -0500, John Tromp wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2007 2:48 PM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'm now somewhat torn. The speedup from using pseudo-liberty counts
> > could be huge, estimating from my profiling. On the other hand, it would
> > be very useful to
I already mentioned that reference counting is not enough for GC... That I
know. I personally don't user reference counting very often. The most
common case being a case where a resource doesn't itself point to anything.
That way I know it won't form a loop. But usually, I just don't use it at
On Nov 13, 2007 3:22 PM, Nick Apperson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd also say that Lisp seems like a great choice. I'm happy to see that
> C++ has been adding support for all the metaprogramming because that is what
> is going to really matter in the future I think and it is why Lisp is such a
On Nov 13, 2007 3:36 PM, Stefan Nobis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You miss the point: Using languages with GC is not about programmers
> who can't avoid memory leaks. It's not about ability, it's about
> productivity. If the only reason you don't use assembler is that with
> C your code is easier
> > Is there any known way to get the best of the both worlds? :-)
>
> Yes, you can generalize pseudoliberties by extending them
> with another field, such that if the (summed) pseudoliberty field
> is between 1 and 4, then the other (summed) field will tell you if all these
> are coming from a sin
On Nov 13, 2007 3:32 PM, John Tromp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is there any known way to get the best of the both worlds? :-)
>
> Yes, you can generalize pseudoliberties by extending them
> with another field, such that if the (summed) pseudoliberty field
> is between 1 and 4, then the other (
On Nov 13, 2007 3:30 PM, Jason House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 3:13 PM, Imran Hendley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Looking at my code I first check if the number of pseudoliberties is
> > less than or equal to 2 (this is necessary but not sufficent for a
> > string to be
"Nick Apperson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Reference counting and copy on write.
Do you know that there's much more to garbage collection than
reference counting and that reference counting has some major
drawbacks? There are even hard real time capable garbage collectors
out there.
> But I'l
On Nov 13, 2007 2:48 PM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm now somewhat torn. The speedup from using pseudo-liberty counts
> could be huge, estimating from my profiling. On the other hand, it would
> be very useful to still be able to quickly check if a group is in atari
> - it looks li
On Nov 13, 2007 3:13 PM, Imran Hendley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looking at my code I first check if the number of pseudoliberties is
> less than or equal to 2 (this is necessary but not sufficent for a
> string to be in atari given the way I compute pseudoliberties), which
> is very fast (it j
I'd also say that Lisp seems like a great choice. I'm happy to see that C++
has been adding support for all the metaprogramming because that is what is
going to really matter in the future I think and it is why Lisp is such a
great language.
On Nov 13, 2007 2:13 PM, Chris Fant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I used Lisp a little bit in college and I enjoyed it. And you are not
the first person to mention that it is a good fit for Go. Thanks for
everyone's comments and thanks for not being hostile to each other on
this touchy subject. Turns out we CAN all just get along.
On Nov 13, 2007 2:59 PM, St
> I'm now somewhat torn. The speedup from using pseudo-liberty counts
> could be huge, estimating from my profiling. On the other hand, it would
> be very useful to still be able to quickly check if a group is in atari
> - it looks like if atari stones would get special attention during the
> rando
On Nov 13, 2007 2:48 PM, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm now somewhat torn. The speedup from using pseudo-liberty counts
> could be huge, estimating from my profiling. On the other hand, it would
> be very useful to still be able to quickly check if a group is in atari
> - it looks li
"Chris Fant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I would like some language recommendations.
So I would suggest Common Lisp: The programmable programming
language. I think it's the single most flexible language -- you get
everything, from imperative over object-oriented to functional and
declarative pa
On Nov 13, 2007 2:15 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How does the speed of the Haskell version compare to the C and Java
> version? The Haskell web site now brags about how fast Haskell is.
Not too well:-(
Fhourstones in Haskell runs more than 10 times slower than the C version...
On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 03:31:12PM -0500, Imran Hendley wrote:
> Sorry I did not have time to look at your code, but here a few quick hints:
Thanks!
> 1) Before any optimization make sure that your code works 100%
> correctly. This means testing extensively and writing tests that you
> can use as
On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 05:14:16PM -0500, Eric Boesch wrote:
> On 11/12/07, Petr Baudis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Does any frequently playing real-world bot use libEGO? It seems still
> > order of magnitude faster, but it looks like that is because it
> > simplifies some things too much. For e
On Nov 13, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Don Dailey wrote:
Ian Osgood wrote:
On Nov 12, 2007, at 3:59 PM, Don Dailey wrote:
How about forth? A lot of the high level languages we are talking
about essentially get converted to forth (or I should say a
"forth type"
language.)
- Don
I like Forth.
How does the speed of the Haskell version compare to the C and Java
version? The Haskell web site now brags about how fast Haskell is.
I have become jaded about claims - you will find almost every language
site talks about how "fast" their language is.
- Don
John Tromp wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2
I was only half kidding about forth - it is a language I haven't really
explored and at some point I want to learn it, and give it a good enough
chance that I can form a well educated opinion of the language.
It's my understanding that the good optimizing compilers for forth are
commercial.
My program only knows the absolute time control yet. I will keep that
in mind when I add the full time control support. Thanks for the note.
On Nov 13, 2007 1:59 PM, Jason House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 1:51 PM, John Fan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Obviously I need to
On Nov 13, 2007 1:51 PM, John Fan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Obviously I need to fix my program to reset the time controls on the
> time_settings command, and should not always expect a time_left
> command after the time_settings command on the first move.
Just a small word of warning - KGS's
In the recent kgs tournament, I noticed there is a slight difference
between cgos and kgs on time_left command.I think it worths pointing
out. Hope it will be helpful for new go developers on understanding of
the time control commands.
cgos always sends time_left command right before genmove comma
On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 07:10:30PM +0100, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
> Petr Baudis wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > is there any way to send game comments through kgsGtp on your own
> > (without the opponent triggering you)?
>
> I think some possibility to send messages would be great. I could swear
>
On Nov 13, 2007 6:40 PM, Chris Fant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > No need to get turned off on that. In most cases you don't need to
> > shake that much. Remember you only need to get the new stone and its
> > direct opponent neighbours connected to a liberty. There's plenty of
> > tricks for earl
On Nov 13, 2007 11:31 AM, Ian Osgood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Nov 13, 2007, at 7:46 AM, Jason House wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Nov 13, 2007 10:36 AM, Ian Osgood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I like Forth. I got excited about UCT around the time of the Computer
> > Olympiad and wrote a bitma
On Nov 13, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Heikki Levanto wrote:
Now that I know of MC and related techniques, it might pay off
anyway to see
if a bitmap machine could play reasonably fast simulations. I can
see two
problems remaining: A quick test to sort out all eyelike points, to
get a
bitmap of m
Petr Baudis wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there any way to send game comments through kgsGtp on your own
> (without the opponent triggering you)?
I think some possibility to send messages would be great. I could swear
I saw MogoBot do this, but I couldn't find anything in the KGSGtp
documentation.
The
> No need to get turned off on that. In most cases you don't need to
> shake that much. Remember you only need to get the new stone and its
> direct opponent neighbours connected to a liberty. There's plenty of
> tricks for early termination. Last time I tested it I got ~75k uniform
> random playou
On Nov 13, 2007, at 8:35 AM, Jason House wrote:
On Nov 13, 2007 11:23 AM, Heikki Levanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There are pathological cases where this has to loop many times,
flood filling
the one liberty to a long chain of stones, but those should be rare.
This was my big turn-off. I
On Nov 13, 2007 5:35 PM, Jason House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2007 11:23 AM, Heikki Levanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There are pathological cases where this has to loop many times, flood
> filling
> > the one liberty to a long chain of stones, but those should be rare.
> >
>
>
On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 11:35:43AM -0500, Jason House wrote:
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 11:23 AM, Heikki Levanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There are pathological cases where this has to loop many times, flood
> > filling the one liberty to a long chain of stones, but those should be
> > rare.
>
> T
Willaim Harold Newman: I actually already addressed this concern earlier
when I said "If you don't directly use the heap in C++ ( i.e. you use the
smart pointer class) you don't have to worry about garbage collection
(except if you make a circular list)."
As far as the other stuff you said, I'd s
On Nov 13, 2007 5:10 PM, William Harold Newman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also Prolog may be in a higher obscurity class than the others: unlike
> even the most obscure languages listed above, I don't know any serious
> applications which are maintained in Prolog today.
I think at least one rout
On Nov 13, 2007 11:23 AM, Heikki Levanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are pathological cases where this has to loop many times, flood
> filling
> the one liberty to a long chain of stones, but those should be rare.
>
This was my big turn-off. I would expect the average case in mid-game to
On Nov 13, 2007, at 7:46 AM, Jason House wrote:
On Nov 13, 2007 10:36 AM, Ian Osgood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I like Forth. I got excited about UCT around the time of the Computer
Olympiad and wrote a bitmap-based 9x9 program. What is the general
impression on bitmap vs. mailbox board repre
On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 10:46:23AM -0500, Jason House wrote:
> I never went down the road of bitmap based go because I had not clever way
> to efficiently track captures. How did you get around this hurdle?
When I was thinking of this - long time ago - I defined a 'shake' operation
that expands a
On Nov 13, 2007 11:10 AM, William Harold Newman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 04:41:35PM -0500, Chris Fant wrote:
> > I would like some language recommendations. Requirements:
> Among the languages I know something about (which excludes D and C#,
> for example)...
> techni
On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 04:41:35PM -0500, Chris Fant wrote:
> I would like some language recommendations. Requirements:
>Runs in Linux
>Has garbage collection
>Fast
>Well supported
>Can interface with MPI (can make C calls)
Yes, wouldn't want a language question to start a war
I too would love to see this feature. Besides figuring out how to do this
(technically), is there any concern about bots dumping too much
information? Would wms care about significantly larger file sizes for games
against chatty bots?
In testing my bot, I find the perceived winning percentage ou
On Nov 13, 2007 10:36 AM, Ian Osgood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I like Forth. I got excited about UCT around the time of the Computer
> Olympiad and wrote a bitmap-based 9x9 program. What is the general
> impression on bitmap vs. mailbox board representations for Monte
> Carlo readouts?
>
I ne
On Nov 12, 2007, at 3:59 PM, Don Dailey wrote:
How about forth? A lot of the high level languages we are talking
about essentially get converted to forth (or I should say a "forth
type"
language.)
- Don
I like Forth. I got excited about UCT around the time of the Computer
Olympiad and
Hi,
is there any way to send game comments through kgsGtp on your own
(without the opponent triggering you)?
I think it would be _very_ helpful to be able to say
"I might take a bit of time now but I will speed up after a
while."
at the opening and
"I'm gonna to f
Nick,
When I engage in complex multi-threaded distributed processing, I have found
Java to give me the most value for my limited personal time buck. I am not
claiming that Java is competitive in performance with hand crafted assembly (or
C or C++). I am claiming that I have experienced a many
Nick Apperson wrote:
> WARNING: This digresses into a rant by the end... You've been warned.
>
> But I'll be damned if Java takes over the world because there are
> programmers that don't know when they need to use garbage collection.
> If you can't avoid memory leaks, fine, don't use C++ or C,
One thing about D is that you have full control over the garbage
collections.You can turn off garbage collection and use malloc and
free if you want, or you can control when it's collected.
You can also use garbage collection with C / C++ by using the publicly
available and popular Boehm gar
Nick Apperson wrote:
If
you can't avoid memory leaks, fine, don't use C++ or C, but don't blame the
language. You could use garbage collection if you need it; don't make us
all stoop to your level of competency and don't try and claim that your
language is just as fast when it isn't.
There a
In message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nick
Apperson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
WARNING: This digresses into a rant by the end... You've been warned.
If you like to have your garbage collected for you then use one of the
management strategies present in C++. If you like delayed freeing,
overload new
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jason House
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
The following text is incorrect:
"In the round 8 game between FirstGoBot and break13, this position
appeared, White has just played the marked stone. Now Black played
(stupidly) at a, White captured two stones at b, and Black
> But as one who has to program some php for living, I wonder why would you
> like to use a language like that? I am *so* tired of the way it happily
> declares a new variable when you mistype one, or finds mistyped function
> names only at run time, if you happen to call that function...
Or reph
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