[CTRL] Fwd: {slick-d} no wonder they want to void their votes!

2000-11-27 Thread Aleisha Saba
LIke mother like daughter and like father? If I had a face like Chelsea or Chelsie Clinton, I would have ridden with that officer and gentleman who was no doubt a bodyguard in full dress for the occasion..she looks like Eleanor Roosevelt and Eleanor Roosevelt at least had a lot of class.

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Nazi Origin of U.S. Gun Control

2000-11-27 Thread Aleisha Saba
-Caveat Lector- Thank you for the clarification of these points Damian Cooper - much appreciated. I always wondered too, during WWII 55 million people were killed and like birds, what happens to all the bodies? Were they cremated, buried, surely not left in streets for disease would spread

[CTRL] 1400 TROOPS DISPATCHED TO WASHINGTON DC -- WHY?

2000-11-27 Thread lloyd
-Caveat Lector- .. From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed] Note: We store 100's of related "conspiracy posts" at: http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html From: "Lloyd Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[CTRL] WP: GSA Won't Open Transition Office

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20001126/aponline221515_000.ht m GSA Won't Open Transition Office The Associated Press Sunday, Nov. 26, 2000; 10:15 p.m. EST WASHINGTON –– The General Services Administration will not release $5.3 million to help the next

[CTRL] Drudge: DIRECTIVE: CLINTON WHITE HOUSE ORDERS 'NO TRANSITION'

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- "...the order to not allocate the cash to the Bush team did not come from GSA Administrator David J. Barram... It came from White House chief of Staff John Podesta." X DRUDGE REPORT X SUN NOV 26, 2000 23:12 ET X DIRECTIVE: CLINTON WHITE HOUSE ORDERS 'NO TRANSITION'

[CTRL] NYT: Certified but Incomplete

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/27/opinion/27MON1.html EDITORIAL November 27, 2000 Certified but Incomplete By hailing the certification of Florida's ballots as the last word on the presidential election and naming a transition director and chief of staff, Gov. George W. Bush

Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: Fwd: ART BELL GOING BACK ON THE AIR!]

2000-11-27 Thread Ynr Chyldz Wyld
-Caveat Lector- Gee, I'm so surprised. Not. June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters

[CTRL] WSJ: GOP Protest in Miami-Dade Is a Well-Organized Effort

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- November 27, 2000 Election 2000 GOP Protest in Miami-Dade Is a Well-Organized Effort Bush Campaign Pays Tab For Aides From Capitol Hill Flown in for Rallies By NICHOLAS KULISH and JIM VANDEHEI Staff Reporters THE WALL STREET JOURNAL MIAMI -- When outraged Republicans raised

Re: [CTRL] Re: [CTRL] Embarrassed? Angry? Agai n,

2000-11-27 Thread Tenorlove
-Caveat Lector- Would a moderator PLEASE step in and get this off-topic trash off the list? Thank you. --- Vera Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Colleen, snip the garbage __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of

Re: [CTRL] NYP: Bush's Supreme Error

2000-11-27 Thread Prudence L. Kuhn
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 11/26/2000 6:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thus, if Bush is thwarted by the court, no matter what its reasoning, many will believe that the final word has been spoken from Mt. Sinai, and that to continue the mudfight with Gore

Re: [CTRL] Mob Rule Wins For W

2000-11-27 Thread Prudence L. Kuhn
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 11/25/2000 4:35:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The protestors carried anti-Gore signs, including one that read: "Rotten to the Gore." The demonstration then turned violent as the canvassing board sought to go into closed session to

[CTRL] Fwd: florida election

2000-11-27 Thread Kris Millegan
Kris A great opportunity ahead, between now and 2004 and which can be exploited for the third parties. and independents l. Reps and Dems together represent ONLY half the US...and have shown themselves to be no more than predators fighting over the spoils of politcal victory 2. Bush and

[CTRL] Fwd: Pedophile Rings the Snuff Film Industry

2000-11-27 Thread Kris Millegan
Guardian When sex abuse can lead to murder Award-winning journalist Nick Davies concludes a series looking at the evils of paedophilia by confronting the grim mysteries of snuff movies. Today: The Amsterdam connection Monday November 27, 2000 A year after Bristol detectives finally

[CTRL] FEATURE: World War AIDS Day Dec. 1, 2000

2000-11-27 Thread newsdesk
{writer's notes: dear editor, per your request find my report on Dr. Graves below ready for publication. Please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for the assignment. JB} FEATURE STORY WORLD WAR AIDS DAY DECEMBER 1, 2000 Submitted by: Joel Bales 11.27.00 08:58 AM BOYD ED GRAVES: PORTRAIT OF

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: florida election

2000-11-27 Thread Aleisha Saba
-Caveat Lector- I like this Chris for the NWO through Cronkite and the likes of his CFR/NWO would give you a choice - extreme right or extreme left when each side is as bad as the other.in 1960 the CFR took over Democrat Party - part of the game plan now, for it is the 60 period all over

Re: [CTRL] WSJ: GOP Protest in Miami-Dade Is a Well-Organized Effort

2000-11-27 Thread Samantha L.
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 11/27/00 7:33:55 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Once word leaked out, everybody wanted in," says one GOP operative involved in the effort. Participants estimate that more than 200 staffers signed on, some spending more than a week

[CTRL] The Consortium - W's Triumph of the Will

2000-11-27 Thread Kris Millegan
-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.consortiumnews.com/112700a.html Click Here: A HREF="http://www.consortiumnews.com/112700a.html"The Consortium/A - November 27, 2000 W's Triumph of the Will By Robert Parry George W. Bush has claimed the mantle of president of the United States after one of

[CTRL] Fwd: Desperately Seeking A Deal

2000-11-27 Thread Aleisha Saba
___ __ / |/ / /___/ / /_ //M I D - E A S T R E A L I T I E S / /|_/ / /_/_ / /\\ Making Sense of the Middle East /_/ /_/ /___/ /_/ \\ http://www.MiddleEast.Org News, Information, Analysis That Governments, Interest Groups,

[CTRL] Russia Sends Hundreds Of Missiles To Iran

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- Russia Sends Hundreds Of Missiles To Iran http://www.menewsline.com/headline9.html 11-25-00 MOSCOW (MENL) - Russia has dismissed the threat of additional U.S.sanctions on its companies linked to Iranian missile and nonconventional programs amid plans to export

[CTRL] Peruvian ex-president says he made decision to resign suddenly

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- Peruvian ex-president says he made decision to resign suddenly By JOSEPH COLEMAN The Associated Press 11/27/00 11:43 AM TOKYO (AP) -- Alberto Fujimori had a busy, but hardly unusual, schedule the last time he left Peru: fly to Brunei for an economic summit, then a brief

[CTRL] Hyundai manager in Colombia kidnapped

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- Hyundai manager in Colombia kidnapped The Associated Press 11/26/00 5:56 PM BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) -- Gunmen abducted the Colombian manager of Hyundai Corp., the Korean car and truck maker, from his weekend retreat outside Bogota, police said Sunday. Lazaro Montes was grabbed

Re: [CTRL] The Republican right prepares for violence

2000-11-27 Thread Nessie
-Caveat Lector- Do you really believe that? Just wishful thinking. A world without Democrats or Republicans is sweet to imagine. But of course, they all work for the same corporations. This so called battle for the presidency is a totally contrived. It's nothing but a show on TV. No matter

[CTRL] JW: JW TO BEGIN FLORIDA RECOUNT TODAY IN PALM BEACH

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE November 27, 2000 Contact: Press Office (202) 646-5172 JUDICIAL WATCH TO BEGIN FLORIDA RECOUNT TODAY IN PALM BEACH Court Orders Access for Judicial Watch To Palm Beach Ballots Accounting Firm to Oversee Judicial Watch Counts Over 400 Judicial Watch

[CTRL] It Does matter

2000-11-27 Thread Alamaine
-Caveat Lector- From http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan27.html Linques embedded at site, one of which's text is proved below. AER }}Begin It Does Matter by Gene Callahan I was wrong. Now, don't get worried – I recall this

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Nazi Origin of U.S. Gun Control

2000-11-27 Thread Nessie
-Caveat Lector- The Nazi origin of gun control is a right wing myth. There is nothing historical about it. Only Jews were forbidden to have guns. Care to cite us a source on that? A HREF!ttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER ÝÝÝCTRL is a discussion informational

[CTRL] Report: KGB ordered Swiss explosion to distract attention from Chernobyl

2000-11-27 Thread Nessie
-Caveat Lector- Report: KGB ordered Swiss explosion to distract attention from Chernobyl http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=137706 Tuesday, 21 November 2000 3:06 (ET) LONDON, Nov. 21 (UPI) - Members of a special Stasi unit caused the 1986 blaze at the Sandoz pharmaceuticals

[CTRL] Fw: THIS IS HOW SERB CHILDREN GO TO SCHOOL IN KOSOVO

2000-11-27 Thread Mrs. Jela Jovanovic
THIS IS HOW SERB CHILDREN GO TO SCHOOL IN KOSOVO Spanish soldiers escort Serb children on their way to school toensure safe movement through Albanian areasEven children are not spared in a systematic campaign of Albanian criminals against Serbs.

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Nazi Origin of U.S. Gun Control

2000-11-27 Thread Nessie
-Caveat Lector- Other Jews served in the Armed forces of the Third Reich, even up to the rank of Field Marshall. Come again? You're not talking about Milch, are you? A HREF!ttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER ÝÝÝCTRL is a discussion informational exchange list.

Re: [CTRL] It Does matter

2000-11-27 Thread Nessie
-Caveat Lector- the Democrats are "lying thieves." So are the Republicans. Or maybe you've forgotten Watergate, Iran/Contra, and the Savings and Loan debacle. A HREF!ttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER ÝÝÝCTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing

Re: [CTRL] Russia Sends Hundreds Of Missiles To Iran

2000-11-27 Thread Aleisha Saba
-Caveat Lector- Their lips speak peace, but there is war on their agenda. What will Israel expect - the American Calvary will come to the rescue? No waynot even the UN will touch that one for there are those who want to see all the people in the Holy Land killed off - and then guess who

[CTRL] FDA Gestapo Imprisons Parkinson's Advocate-Lengthy article

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- This is rather long. I make no claims as to the guilt or innocence of this individual but am forwarding it as part of the conspiracy theory of suppression of vitamins/alternative treatments. AKE - Original Message - From: "International Advocates for Health Freedom"

[CTRL] Cashing in on Government

2000-11-27 Thread Bob Stokes
-Caveat Lector- Cashing in on government http://lewrockwell.com Until the 1990s, lots of folks down South still thought of the Democrat Party as just one political alternative, not as the power-lusting, junta-in-waiting we see today. After eight years of misrule and unending lies, and now

[CTRL] Not the Framer's Presidency

2000-11-27 Thread Bob Stokes
-Caveat Lector- Not the framers' presidency -- -- © 2000 WorldNetDaily.com The best thing for this country is for the presidential election to be indefinitely in dispute. Think of the alternative. Folks in Utah

[CTRL] Creating monsters and selling fear

2000-11-27 Thread mirage
-Caveat Lector- Creating monsters and selling fear The EU's plan to form its own military force consisting of recruits from EU member nations seems to reflect a rejection of US-dominated NATO. Russia has made a bid to join this endeavor. As the EU forms its own army, NATO and its armed forces

[CTRL] =?x-unknown?q?_NR=3A_Gore=92s_Secret_Donors?=

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- 11/27/00 Gore’s Secret Donors As the Florida battle wages on, Gore is in danger of being called a hypocrite. By John Samples, director of the Center for Representative Government at the Cato Institute National Review A recent New York Times story brings news of Vice

[CTRL] American Lawyer Media: Century-Old Law Is Key to Supreme Court's Decision to Rule on Recount

2000-11-27 Thread mirage
-Caveat Lector- http://www.law.com/cgi-bin/nwlink.cgi?ACG=ZZZ351QD1GC Century-Old Law Is Key to Supreme Court's Decision to Rule on Recount Tony Mauro American Lawyer Media November 27, 2000 Inside a rented mansion in Miami, away from the constant flow of e-mail, Harvard Law School professor

[CTRL] Bush's Pal Racicot Tied To Extremists

2000-11-27 Thread William Shannon
Bush campaign spokesman Governor Marc Racicot tied to extreme-right forces By Jerry White 27 November 2000 The fact that Montana Governor Marc Racicot has emerged as a leading spokesman for the campaign of George W. Bush says a great deal about the social and political physiognomy of the

[CTRL] Gulf War Germ Developed (on us!), Given To Iraq In Bush, Reagan Years

2000-11-27 Thread William Shannon
Original Message - From: "NewsHawk Inc." [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 10:11 AM Gulf War Germ Developed (on us!), Given To Iraq In Bush, Reagan Years "In 1986, with the approval of Vice-President George Bush, Saddam  received shipments of both brucella abortus, biotypes 3

[CTRL] The Ballot War--Contingency Planning

2000-11-27 Thread radman
-Caveat Lector- The Ballot War--Contingency Planning A message from FLI http://www.friendsofliberty.com/00482_00.htm The canvassing board has stated that it is not inclined to count "indentations" on ballots, even though Al Gore said that they should be considered for "voter-intent". The

[CTRL] Republican Brown Shirts intimidate Dade-Miami vote counters

2000-11-27 Thread radman
-Caveat Lector- 3 stories: 1) Republican Brown Shirts intimidate Dade-Miami vote counters http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_protests001124.html (ABC News Online) ...in an apparent exercise of spontaneous public outrage, pro-George W. Bush demonstrators surged

[CTRL] [FWD] School Advertising

2000-11-27 Thread Justine Blake
-Caveat Lector- Is your schoolchild watching too much television? Eating too many junk foods and drinks instead of what's healthy? Nagging you to buy expensive sneakers? too easily swayed by advertising? If so, why are the schools encouraging all those things? Commercialism in the public

[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] THE RICH AND THE SUPER RICH

2000-11-27 Thread Kris Millegan
This is an opportune time to illuminate a virtually unknown dynamic in American politics that was explained to me by Barry Goldwater. Ferdinand Lundberg named his epic expose THE RICH AND THE SUPER RICH for good reason. There is a layer at the top of the economic spectrum where there is

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Nazi Origin of U.S. Gun Control

2000-11-27 Thread Nurev Ind Research
-Caveat Lector- Aleisha Saba wrote: -Caveat Lector- Come to think of it Joshua, now is the time for all Black Moslems, Black Nationalists, and any American to apply for dual citizenship to Palestine. Think I will..bet a lot of people would...and then we lobby the Congress to

Re: [CTRL] Mob Rule Wins For W

2000-11-27 Thread Mike Smith
-Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 11/25/2000 4:35:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The protestors carried anti-Gore signs, including one that read: "Rotten to the Gore." The demonstration then turned violent as the

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Nazi Origin of U.S. Gun Control

2000-11-27 Thread Nurev Ind Research
-Caveat Lector- Nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- Other Jews served in the Armed forces of the Third Reich, even up to the rank of Field Marshall. Come again? You're not talking about Milch, are you? This is stupid bullshit Nessie. Don't bother. J2 A

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Nazi Origin of U.S. Gun Control

2000-11-27 Thread Nurev Ind Research
-Caveat Lector- Nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- The Nazi origin of gun control is a right wing myth. There is nothing historical about it. Only Jews were forbidden to have guns. Care to cite us a source on that? Not necessary. It's common knowledge. Asked the idiots who keep the myth

Re: [CTRL] FEATURE: World War AIDS Day Dec. 1, 2000

2000-11-27 Thread Nurev Ind Research
-Caveat Lector- Aleisha Saba wrote: -Caveat Lector- Well we had the black death, the poisond waters made bitter in the Revelatins, the Blue Danube poisoned, the Dead Sea is still dead, and half the rivers in this country so filthy not safe to fish. We had Swine Flu which should have been

Re: [CTRL] The Republican right prepares for violence

2000-11-27 Thread Nurev Ind Research
-Caveat Lector- Nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- Do you really believe that? Just wishful thinking. A world without Democrats or Republicans is sweet to imagine. But of course, they all work for the same corporations. This so called battle for the presidency is a totally contrived. It's

[CTRL] Fwd: The Time for Talk is Over

2000-11-27 Thread radman
-Caveat Lector- FrontPage Exclusives - http://www.frontpagemag.com The Time for Talk Is Over By Richard Poe URL: http://frontpagemag.com/editors_note/en11-27-00.htm 11/27/00 BUSH HAS WON Florida. But the Gore team fights on. For the first time in our history, Americans face the possibility

[CTRL] The Diary and Letters of Rutherford B. Hayes, Nineteenth President of the United States, edited by Charles Richard Williams (Columbus, Ohio: Ohio State Archeological and Historical Society, 1922).

2000-11-27 Thread Kris Millegan
-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.ohiohistory.org/onlinedoc/hayes/chapterxxxiv.html Click Here: A HREF="http://www.ohiohistory.org/onlinedoc/hayes/chapterxxxiv.html"Volume Chapter XXXIV/A - COLUMBUS, OHIO, November 13, 1876. MY DEAR S-: -Thanks for your letter. Perhaps I ought to say in

[CTRL] Fw: Gulf War syndrome symptoms linked to brain damage

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: undisclosed-recipients: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:45 AM Subject: Gulf War syndrome symptoms linked to brain damage Gulf War syndrome symptoms linked to brain damage CHICAGO, Nov 27 (Reuters) - Symptoms such as

[CTRL] Fw: Disgraceful lack of leadership

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- This is an exchange between a military retiree in Florida and the VFW and other military organizations inquiring as to why they have not done more to ensure the votes of the military are counted in the presidential election in Florida. - Original Message - From: "Ron

[CTRL] NYT: Protest Influenced Miami-Dade's Decision to Stop Recount

2000-11-27 Thread Steve Wingate
-Caveat Lector- November 24, 2000 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY Protest Influenced Miami-Dade's Decision to Stop Recount By DEXTER FILKINS and DANA CANEDY IAMI, Nov. 23 — The Miami- Dade County Canvassing Board's decision on Wednesday to shut down its hand recount of presidential election ballots

Re: [CTRL] The Republican right prepares for violence

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Nurev Ind Research wrote: Nessie wrote: Do you really believe that? Just wishful thinking. A world without Democrats or Republicans is sweet to imagine. But of course, they all work for the same corporations. This so called battle for the

[CTRL] Transcript: Gore remarks on Florida vote certification

2000-11-27 Thread Steve Wingate
-Caveat Lector- Transcript: Gore remarks on Florida vote certification November 27, 2000 Web posted at: 9:44 p.m. EST (0244 GMT) GORE: Good evening. Thank you for taking the time to listen tonight. Every four years there is one day when the people have their say. In many ways the act of

[CTRL] US Code Title 3, Chapter 1: Presidential Elections and Vacancies

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- U.S. Code as of: 01/23/00 United States Code TITLE 3 - THE PRESIDENT CHAPTER 1 - PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS AND VACANCIES Section 1. Time of appointing electors The electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first

[CTRL] AFP: Gore says Florida count wrong, claims he is owed 1,800 votes

2000-11-27 Thread MICHAEL SPITZER
-Caveat Lector- Gore says Florida count wrong, claims he is owed 1,800 votes Source: AFP - Agence France Presse Nov 27 13:11 by Matthew Lee ATTENTION - UPDATES with Gore complaint, quotes /// TALLAHASSEE, Florida, Nov 27 (AFP) - Lawyers for Democratic candidate Al Gore described the official

[CTRL] [Fwd: Solution to political divide: secession]

2000-11-27 Thread mirage
is likely to leave the country more divided than ever, with none of the political parties able to reach beyond regional bases. (11/27/00) http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20001127/384637.html War of words over green accord -- The two-week conference in

[CTRL] Fw: [CTRL] NYT: Protest Influenced Miami-Dade's Decision to Stop Recount

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- There is no evidence nor record of anybody being injured nor arrested and the head of the canvassing board said they were not intimidated. Does anybody have the names of injured or arrested parties? Bob Dole said on TV that he personally asked the police about any incidence of

[CTRL] :Machine Processing May Have Left So Call Dimple

2000-11-27 Thread Amelia
-Caveat Lector- This is from NewsForum.com Re:Machine Processing May Have Left So Call Dimple (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 27, @10:13AM EST (#146) If the machine moves the ballots using opposing rollers, it is very possible for it to create dimpled or pregnant

[CTRL] Alien Microbe Reported Found in Earth's Atmosphere

2000-11-27 Thread mirage
-Caveat Lector- http://www.space.com/searchforlife/alien_bacteria_001127.html Alien Microbe Reported Found in Earth's Atmosphere By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 09:40 am ET 27 November 2000 A group of scientists says it has collected an alien bacterium 10 miles above

[CTRL] New Demo Logo

2000-11-27 Thread Alamaine
-Caveat Lector- @ http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/11/27/103619 You can see the image Monday, Nov. 27, 2000 11:33 a.m. EST Al Gore Wants Democratic Party to Change Seal AER Integrity has no need of rules. -Albert Camus (1913-1960) + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

[CTRL] Enabling Act

2000-11-27 Thread Alamaine
-Caveat Lector- From http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/11-27-00.html }}Begin Memo on the Margin November 27, 2000 ARREST THE FLORIDA JUDGES!! Memo To: Attorney General Janet Reno From: Jude Wanniski Re: Grand Larceny in Tallahassee!!! We’ve heard a lot of hot-under-the-collar rhetoric from