Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

On 13.04.2017 11:27, Vincent Danjean wrote: > For me, the first argument explain in the first mail is not this one. > systemd is not portable on lots of system (hurd, kFreeBSD, ...), This is just one of many arguments for not making applications depending on it. (and they shouldn't depend on

Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

Vincent Danjean writes: > I'm persuaded that ignoring this issue will lead to an unmaintanable > Debian distribution on plateforms that do not support systemd in the > middle/long term. But, perhaps, it is what the project wants. > Enrico is proposing something else. I'm

Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

]] Vincent Danjean > For me, the first argument explain in the first mail is not this > one. systemd is not portable on lots of system (hurd, kFreeBSD, ...), > upstream systemd is not interested in making its code portable, nor to > stabilize its interfaces so that other system init can easily

Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

Hi, I do not have any strong position on this subject. Le 13/04/2017 à 02:13, Russ Allbery a écrit : > I guess I'm confused about what you think this email will accomplish. I > feel like it's just another round of being convinced that, since you > dislike systemd, everyone else must also

Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

On 2017-04-13 10:13, Russ Allbery wrote: > It would be nice if people would stop doing the same thing over and over > again and expecting different results. Maybe this illustrates the core of the problem: https://xkcd.com/242/

Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" writes: > So, why don't we just ask, what kind of functionality do applications > really want (and what's the actual goal behind), and then define open > interfaces, that can be easily implemented anywhere ? Who's we? The people who

Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

On 12 April 2017 at 09:38, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > ..[snip].. > So, at least anybody who maintains and systemd-free environment (eg. > platforms that dont even have it) needs run behind them and keep up. I think what you say there answers your own question at the end of

Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

Quoting Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult (2017-04-12 08:38:26) > I really wonder why people spent so much time in init system wars, > instead of thinking clearly of the actual root problem to solve. Because the debate got derailed by remarks painting other contributors to the debate as idiots,

init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

On 17.02.2015 18:49, The Wanderer wrote: Hi folks, just digging out an older thread that was still laying around in my inbox - w/ about 2yrs distance, I hope it was enough cool down time so we discuss it more objectively about that. > libsystemd0 is not a startup method, or an init system.

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 12:16 AM, Axel Wagner m...@merovius.de wrote: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net writes: what *does* concern me is that it takes such incredible (and amazing) efforts by people like adam for the average end-user or sysadmin to contemplate replacing {insert

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hi, Marc Haber: On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:31:19 +0100, m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) wrote: As usual, the systemd critics are just misinformed. This comforts me. because it means that their views can be easily ignored. And as usual, you don't make any effort to change the misinformation. Well

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hi, Am 18.02.2015 um 04:32 schrieb Russ Allbery: If the argument is that it should be opened with dlopen at runtime, I'm quite confident that there are *many* people on debian-devel who have worked with shared libraries and can spell out many reasons why that's a horrible idea. Correct. As

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 07:21:44PM +0100, Simon Richter wrote: If the argument is that it should be opened with dlopen at runtime, I'm quite confident that there are *many* people on debian-devel who have worked with shared libraries and can spell out many reasons why that's a horrible

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Simon Richter s...@debian.org writes: With my embedded hat on, it would be nice if there was an easy way to drop this extra dependency, as it means a lot of essentially dead code loaded on systems that don't use systemd. Like others, I'd be happy to support that as a build profile or build

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015, at 04:32, Russ Allbery wrote: (Removing every package whose name contains the string systemd is not a practical, useful purpose. It's just silly.) Perhaps we could rename the library (and the package) to: libthis-is-not-the-library-you-are-looking-for.so.0 I guess that

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:52:21PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org wrote: So, please go educate yourself on what libsystemd0 actually

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 2015-02-18 13:54, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: that's right - i haven't. because (a) i have complete confidence in your technical abilities, as a group. i wouldn't use debian otherwise! :) and (b) this isn't a technical issue, it's a strategic one. No, it's not. The issue is (c)

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On February 18, 2015 7:54:00 AM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:52:21PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Josh Triplett

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Feb 18, Simon Richter s...@debian.org wrote: With my embedded hat on, it would be nice if there was an easy way to drop this extra dependency, as it means a lot of essentially dead code loaded on systems that don't use systemd. http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/md/libsystemd-dummy.git/

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 02/17/2015 07:36 PM, j...@joshtriplett.org wrote: I'm all out of patience now, and I no longer have any hope that you actually care about being taken seriously. I have no plans to respond to any future mails from you. Hey Josh, Thanks for taking the time to write that up. I'm a user*,

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org wrote: So, please go educate yourself on what libsystemd0 actually does, i know what it does, and what it does - technically - is *not* the issue that i am concerned about. and if for some reason you still consider it a

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net writes: what *does* concern me is that it takes such incredible (and amazing) efforts by people like adam for the average end-user or sysadmin to contemplate replacing {insert nameless package}. insert libc6. Or insert perl. Or insert linux-image.

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:52:21PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org wrote: So, please go educate yourself on what libsystemd0 actually does, i know what it does, and what it does - technically - is *not* the

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Nathan Schulte nmschu...@gmail.com writes: On 02/17/2015 11:49 AM, The Wanderer wrote: libsystemd0_is_ dynamically loaded, precisely so that userspace applications can make the decision at runtime as to what to do. What about dynamically linked? Maybe Luke means dynamic linking

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

It's not the fact that you wrote such a long email that is necessarily the problem; it's that you've shown no signs of either reading or comprehending most of what people have actually said to you. Instead, you launched into a new set of diatribes that show very little sign of having actually

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:52:21PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org wrote: So, please go educate yourself on what libsystemd0 actually does, i know what it does, and what it does - technically - is *not* the

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hi, Quoting Didier 'OdyX' Raboud (2015-02-17 21:31:05) Le lundi, 16 février 2015, 13.38:01 Adam Borowski a écrit : Second, all but one (upower) of affected packages can be recompiled to drop the dependency. If you bothered to read lists you're subscribed to, you would probably know of my

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hi Luke, On 17 February 2015 at 17:28, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: 265 lines of text and counting snipped In short, this is TL;DR. We've all got better things to waste our time on. Please go away. Nobody's interested in this any longer regardless of their position on

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hallo, * Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton [Tue, Feb 17 2015, 04:28:04PM]: so to summarise: * the use of libselinux1 is dormant (i.e. whilst you can't remove it without inconvenience, its use is entirely optional, right from the kernel level) * its development and documentation is rational and

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

ok, so there's been quite a discussion, both on slashdot, where amazingly the comments that filtered to the top were insightful and respectful, and also here on debian-devel and debian-users. as i normally use gmane to reply (and maintain and respect threads) but this discussion is not *on*

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

❦ 17 février 2015 12:57 GMT, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie : The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a separate partition) has left a sour taste. I spent a weekend repairing systemd introduces no such breakage. Also, /usr on a separate partition

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, 2015-02-17 at 12:57 +, Alastair McKinstry wrote: On 17/02/2015 10:55, Vincent Bernat wrote: ❦ 17 février 2015 10:18 GMT, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie : The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a separate partition) has left a

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

2015-02-17 13:57 GMT+01:00 Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie: [...] Examination after the fact showed that if I'd had the correct packages installed, it would have worked. So from a Debian perspective this was 'notabug'. (modules that were not needed day-to-day had been deleted

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Andrew Shadura and...@shadura.me wrote: Hello, I'd like to apologise for my mail I sent about two hours ago. I have overreacted mainly because of the length of the email, CAPS INSIDE and also because it's a topic which is being discussed for more than a year

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: which should help answer the question you asked: your work - fantastic as it is - was *impossible to find*. it doesn't even remotely come up on the radar of queries. *nobody knows what you've achieved* and

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Le lundi, 16 février 2015, 13.38:01 Adam Borowski a écrit : Second, all but one (upower) of affected packages can be recompiled to drop the dependency. If you bothered to read lists you're subscribed to, you would probably know of my set of deinfected packages at: deb

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hello, I'd like to apologise for my mail I sent about two hours ago. I have overreacted mainly because of the length of the email, CAPS INSIDE and also because it's a topic which is being discussed for more than a year and which many of people here are already tired of. I however still think

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 02/17/2015 at 11:28 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: so, marco, you wrote: Again, you clearly do not understand well how systemd works. marco: understanding or otherwise how systemd works is not the point: the point is that there has been a unilateral decision across virtually

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Feb 17 2015, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie wrote: On 17/02/2015 10:55, Vincent Bernat wrote: ❦ 17 février 2015 10:18 GMT, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie : The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a separate partition) has left

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:31:19 +0100, m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) wrote: As usual, the systemd critics are just misinformed. This comforts me. because it means that their views can be easily ignored. And as usual, you don't make any effort to change the misinformation. Otoh, most systemd

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

2015-02-17 19:29 GMT+01:00 Nathan Schulte nmschu...@gmail.com: Hi Andrew, On 02/17/2015 11:58 AM, Andrew Shadura wrote: I find it really rude to send emails of about 300 lines of text in total. Extremely rude. I for one am grateful Luke took the time to write the email he did. I

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 02/17/2015 11:49 AM, The Wanderer wrote: You only harm your case by misusing and confusing terminology in that way. russ writes: Alas, the resulting distribution is still hopelessly compromised by the NSA, who might be even worse than Lennart Poettering. To see how deep the tendrils of

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

2015-02-17 17:55 GMT+01:00 Andrew Shadura and...@shadura.me: Hi Luke, On 17 February 2015 at 17:28, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: 265 lines of text and counting snipped In short, this is TL;DR. We've all got better things to waste our time on. Please go away. Nobody's

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 5:20 PM, claude juif claude.j...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-02-17 17:55 GMT+01:00 Andrew Shadura and...@shadura.me: Hi Luke, On 17 February 2015 at 17:28, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: 265 lines of text and counting snipped In short, this is

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Andrew Shadura and...@shadura.me wrote: Hi, On 17 February 2015 at 18:20, claude juif claude.j...@gmail.com wrote: Really rude answer. Really bad. I find it really rude to send emails of about 300 lines of text in total. Extremely rude. i did apologise in

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

adam, i apologise for not being in a position to reply in-thread: as mentioned previously i tried (via gmane) but the entire discussion is completely missing, and i forgot to ask people in the original post to cc me if they would like an ongoing threaded reply. i also notice that you removed

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hi Andrew, On 02/17/2015 11:58 AM, Andrew Shadura wrote: I find it really rude to send emails of about 300 lines of text in total. Extremely rude. I for one am grateful Luke took the time to write the email he did. I understand it was long and I believe that most won't even take the time to

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hi, On 17 February 2015 at 18:20, claude juif claude.j...@gmail.com wrote: Really rude answer. Really bad. I find it really rude to send emails of about 300 lines of text in total. Extremely rude. -- Cheers, Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 17 Feb 17:44, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: thanks for pointing that out, claude - it helps that it was someone else who pointed out that being uncivil by asking a *person* to go away doesn't make the *problem* go away. andrew: i will go away only when i am satisified that the

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 01:54:35AM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: you have the right to choose whether the situation that you are complicit in is something that you find acceptable or whether you do not. i leave it entirely to you to decide. As a matter of fact we have already

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

But dictatorially coming in and demanding that volunteers join you in riding your hobby horse? Please leave. I did not see any dictatorial demands in his message, he gave the story on how to get rid of systemd _within_ Debian, nothing else. True, but it was bait for another systemd

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 23:45 +0100, Mart van de Wege wrote: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net writes: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

❦ 17 février 2015 10:18 GMT, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie : The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a separate partition) has left a sour taste. I spent a weekend repairing systemd introduces no such breakage. Also, /usr on a separate partition

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 16/02/2015 21:31, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Feb 16, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie wrote: The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a separate partition) has left a sour taste. I spent a weekend repairing systemd introduces no such breakage. Also,

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 17/02/2015 10:55, Vincent Bernat wrote: ❦ 17 février 2015 10:18 GMT, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie : The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a separate partition) has left a sour taste. I spent a weekend repairing systemd introduces no

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

2015-02-16 16:26 GMT+01:00 Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie: [...] An an example, i've been a long-term linux developer, DD; i've developed and promoted Linux not just on the desktop but both in embedded systems and in HPC systems. In all these I've been comfortable that I've

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 16/02/2015 14:41, Christian Kastner wrote: On 2015-02-16 13:47, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Matthias Klumpp matth...@tenstral.net wrote: 2015-02-16 16:26 GMT+01:00 Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie: [...] An an example, i've been a long-term linux developer, DD; i've developed and promoted Linux not just on the desktop but both in

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 2015-02-16 16:26, Alastair McKinstry wrote: On 16/02/2015 14:41, Christian Kastner wrote: I'll hazard another guess, namely that the great vast majority of users simply do not care. I'd be surprised if most users even know what an init system does, much less what the differences between

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 16/02/2015 16:14, Matthias Klumpp wrote: 2015-02-16 16:26 GMT+01:00 Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie: [...] An an example, i've been a long-term linux developer, DD; i've developed and promoted Linux not just on the desktop but both in embedded systems and in HPC systems. In

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Hallo, * Lisi Reisz [Mon, Feb 16 2015, 11:42:14AM]: On Monday 16 February 2015 08:09:19 Marco d'Itri wrote: to debian-users: you don't have complete choice (yet), but i have demonstrated with a few hours work that there is a way to run (certain) desktop environments without requiring

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Feb 16, Alastair McKinstry alastair.mckins...@sceal.ie wrote: The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a separate partition) has left a sour taste. I spent a weekend repairing systemd introduces no such breakage. Also, /usr on a separate partition was partially

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net writes: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton: http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ It's funny that when Wheezy (not Jessie!) came

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton: http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ It's funny that when Wheezy (not Jessie!) came out, nobody complained that libsystemd-login0 (which

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 02/16/2015 at 07:47 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton: http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ It's funny that when Wheezy

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 01:54:35AM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: to illustrate the dominance of libsystemd0, if you carry out an apt-get --purge remove libsystemd0 First, it's actual systemd packages that are a problem, libsystemd0 is merely a harmless library which does nothing

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On 2015-02-16 13:47, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton: http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ It's funny that when Wheezy (not Jessie!)

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Marco d'Itri: On Feb 16, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: to debian-developers: the technical issues are irrelevant (and can always be solved over time) - it's that you are complicit in removing people's software freedom right to choose what to run on their system: that is

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Feb 16, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: to debian-users: you don't have complete choice (yet), but i have demonstrated with a few hours work that there is a way to run (certain) desktop environments without requiring libsystemd0 or any of its dependencies, and after a

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: Or, alternately, you could research how and why one would use shared libraries in a binary distribution to support optional features. But that's boring, prosaic, and nowhere near as much fun to write about. We were discussing optional

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

On Monday 16 February 2015 08:09:19 Marco d'Itri wrote: to debian-users: you don't have complete choice (yet), but i have demonstrated with a few hours work that there is a way to run (certain) desktop environments without requiring libsystemd0 or any of its dependencies, and after a

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Am 16.02.2015 um 02:54 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton: http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ It's funny that when Wheezy (not Jessie!) came out, nobody complained that libsystemd-login0 (which is now part of libsystemd0) was as a dependency of dbus, so it is probably

how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ i've documented the process by which it is possible to run some of the debian desktop window managers (TDE, fvwm, twm etc.) without the need for systemd or libsystemd0 or any components related to systemd whatsoever. the process is not

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net writes: i've documented the process by which it is possible to run some of the debian desktop window managers (TDE, fvwm, twm etc.) without the need for systemd or libsystemd0 or any components related to systemd whatsoever. Alas, the resulting

Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: to debian-developers: the technical issues are irrelevant (and can always be solved over time) - it's that you are complicit in removing people's software freedom right to choose what to run on their system: People still have that right, just as they have