also sprach Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.27.0152 +0100]:
> For example, I'm fairly sure that job ad is illegal in the
> United States.
[...]
> Were this job advertisement published in the United States and
> someone over the age of forty turned down because of the age
> restriction, th
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Wolfgang, please stop this. Putting a maximum age into a job description
> is standard practice because a company does not want to invest time and
> money into a new employee for various reasons, be they simple age and
> thus time left to work for the
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 08:54:40PM +, Jurij Smakov wrote:
> > This is precisely my problem, it comes across as a statement from
> > Debian, when in fact it is the voice of a few people (who seem to
> > have little idea about HR and running a business). This is why
> > I replied on -jobs, becau
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 06:17:45PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1807 +0100]:
> > And no, it's not Debian's flaw or problem - but Wolfgang's
> > complaint is IMHO very well in place. It will reach the clueless
> > HR recruiter, and -as he po
* W. Martin Borgert:
> Quoting Andre Timmermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> We are searching for a system engineer in in Zurich,
>> Switzerland.
> ...
>> Requirements:
> ...
>>* Younger than 35 years
>
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate o
also sprach Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1807 +0100]:
> And no, it's not Debian's flaw or problem - but Wolfgang's
> complaint is IMHO very well in place. It will reach the clueless
> HR recruiter, and -as he posted to -jobs- probably other HR people
> pondering on writing to Debian.
martin f krafft dijo [Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:11:13AM +0100]:
> Wolfgang, please stop this. Putting a maximum age into a job
> description is standard practice because a company does not want to
> invest time and money into a new employee for various reasons, be
> they simple age and thus time left
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:53:43 +1100
Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Poole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I am rather surprised that the majority reaction to this is so
> > different from the majority reaction to a poorly executed satire --
> > something which was also claimed to
Am 2008-11-25 20:17:22, schrieb W. Martin Borgert:
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
> only it is illegal in some countries, I find it highl
* Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-11-26 04:45]:
> If moderation was occuring before mailing list distribution, this
> would be a requeest to consider. As there isn't, there's not much to
> discuss.
Actually, debian-jobs is moderated. I'm the acting moderator.
--
Martin Michlmayr
http://w
Michael Poole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I am rather surprised that the majority reaction to this is so
> different from the majority reaction to a poorly executed satire --
> something which was also claimed to be discriminatory.
Actually, I agree that most of W. Martin Borgert's list of crit
First off, can we please refrain from uselessly crossposting? This
isn't a job offer, so it doesn't belong on -jobs. I'm not even
convinced that it belongs on -project, but I'll respond here once
since it's at least marginally related to the project. In the future,
if you have a concern about the m
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:17:22PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> > Requirements:
> ...
> >* Younger than 35 years
>
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orient
martin f krafft writes:
> also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017 +0100]:
>> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
>> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
>> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
>
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:48:27PM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> More accurately: it *is* discrimination (because people are being selected
> based on some criterion), but what is at issue is whether it is *unfair*
> discrimination.
Well said.
Next on our list of politically correct items to complai
also sprach Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1323 +0100]:
> Come on Charles - it's obviousely flaming season. We had nearly one year
> without
> heavy flames. But people seem to enjoy this these days and it's winter time
> at
> Northern hemisphere where many participiants in these
"Rafal Czlonka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> > discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> > (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> > job functions. So we can't simply re
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Charles Plessy wrote:
"Please post only job offers that discriminate people who send too many
messages to too many mailing lists." Then there would be a direct benefit for
Debian.
;-)
Come on Charles - it's obviousely flaming season. We had nearly one year
without
heav
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:01:54PM +, Rafal Czlonka wrote:
> > Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> > discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> > (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> > job functions. So
Le Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:55:09PM +1100, Ben Finney a écrit :
>
> What seems to be the issue is that some people find the particular
> stated discriminatory *criteria* to be objectionable ones. So
> presumably you would want such a request to say something like
> “Please no job offers that discri
> Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> job functions. So we can't simply request job adverts avoid
> "discriminatory job offers"
Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I support Jurjs proposal of adding a "Please no discriminatory job
> offers" or such to http://lists.debian.org/debian-jobs/
I do not.
Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing e
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You may be 70 and capable to do a job which required me to invest 2
> years into you, but the chance of you waking up dead is far higher
> than of a 30-year-old. Plain fact, no discrimination.
More accurately: it *is* discrimination (because people ar
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:17:22PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
> only it is illegal in some countries,
also sprach Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1136 +0100]:
> So what? The same can be said (for example) for hiring only
> females for certain jobs ("nicer telephone voice", "more appealing
> to (male) customers", whatever crap).
>
> That's also (somewhat) standard practice in Germany,
On 2008-11-26 11:12 +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> If there were a country that required me to hire people
> independently of age, I'd surely take my business elsewhere. You may
> be 70 and capable to do a job which required me to invest 2 years
> into you, but the chance of you waking up dead is
On Wednesday 2008-11-26, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017
+0100]:
> > I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> > offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> > disability, age, gender, sexual ori
On Wed, November 26, 2008 11:12, martin f krafft wrote:
> You may be 70 and capable to do a job which required me to invest 2 years
> into you,
I'd be with you if the ad required a maximum age that was actually
somewhere close to the pension age. Your example does not compare with the
arbitrary ag
Hi,
On Wednesday 26 November 2008 10:11, martin f krafft wrote:
> Putting a maximum age into a job
> description is standard practice because a company does not want to
> invest time and money into a new employee for various reasons, be
> they simple age and thus time left to work for the company,
Le mercredi 26 novembre 2008 à 09:39 +, Jurij Smakov a écrit :
> Sorry, but I'm with Wolfgang on this one. I'm pretty sure that this
> "standard practice" is illegal in most of EU countries (judging by
> existence of EU directive 2000/78/EC)
Bullshit. Most jobs in public administrations have
also sprach Jurij Smakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1039 +0100]:
> Sorry, but I'm with Wolfgang on this one. I'm pretty sure that this
> "standard practice" is illegal in most of EU countries (judging by
> existence of EU directive 2000/78/EC) and in the US, and I would
> expect similar law
Jurij Smakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (26/11/2008):
> It's pretty unfortunate that Switzerland does not have any law in
> place preventing age discrimination [0], and I believe that in the
> spirit of Debian we should not provide a forum for posting
> discriminatory job offers. I suggest to have the blu
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:11:13AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017 +0100]:
> > I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> > offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> > disability, age, ge
also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017 +0100]:
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
> only it is illegal in some co
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