Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Arash Rajaeeyan schrieb: and may be thats because shale has chosen a different approach? No... Actually I think the fusion conversation system is one level lower than shale dialog. While shale dialog basically follows the approach - configuration of dialog scopes, have something which can keep objects in ram during the dialog. the fusion conversation system is along the lines of: providing a programmatic accessible scope mechanism based on spring 2.0s basic scope control which also is able to handle orm entity manager control, no dialog configuration whatsoever (except for a spring bean entry). Nothing speaks against accessing this programmatic control from a configuration based dialog system, and only a few things currently prevent it from being accessible from other webframeworks outside of the jsf scope. But as Mario said, who knows what the future will bring.
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
On 3/2/07, Werner Punz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arash Rajaeeyan schrieb: and may be thats because shale has chosen a different approach? No... Actually I think the fusion conversation system is one level lower than shale dialog. While shale dialog basically follows the approach - configuration of dialog scopes, have something which can keep objects in ram during the dialog. the fusion conversation system is along the lines of: providing a programmatic accessible scope mechanism based on spring 2.0s basic scope control which also is able to handle orm entity manager control, no dialog configuration whatsoever (except for a spring bean entry). Nothing speaks against accessing this programmatic control from a configuration based dialog system, and only a few things currently prevent it from being accessible from other webframeworks outside of the jsf scope. But as Mario said, who knows what the future will bring. One thing I've wondered as I've watched the fusion stuff go by ... in an architecture that is so heavily based on Spring 2 already, why wasn't Spring Web Flow used? It looks like the core value add you wanted (managing the persistence tier resources at a per-conversation level instead of per-request) could have been done with SWF just as easily as writing your own conversation scope stuff. Craig
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hi Craig! One thing I've wondered as I've watched the fusion stuff go by ... in an architecture that is so heavily based on Spring 2 already, why wasn't Spring Web Flow used? Don't know much about SWF, but we had a meeting with Jürgen Höller from interface21 where he helped designing the integration of the conversation scope with Spring including the persistence stuff. If SWF would have been possible to do this he would have said it. Also Fusion do depend on Spring 2, but not that hard ... for sure, it uses its possibility to create custom scopes and makes use of their persistence framework, though, its still modular enough that - if JSF will ever allow custom scopes - it can be plugged in there too. What might be possible is, that SWF make use of this new scope too - Fusion is also designed in a way that you can replace the web framework (in the important area). Maybe (I hope for the future) shale-dialog can make use of this scope too, and can provide a solution for the persistence that way. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Well... don't lets discuss that much about why another thing... Perhaps all these existing techniques can get their profit from the other one and can also give valuable feedback to web beans / jsr 299. I am happy that *Fusion* (or Kleber) has no dependency to WebFlow. I would prefer a closer connection to the Shale (Basic) Dialog. However... it's good to have the choice... Take a look at ORM or web frameworks... there are more than one, doing 99% same like the other... also the advent of JSF didn't stop that (like GWT for instance). Thx, Matthias On 3/2/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Craig! One thing I've wondered as I've watched the fusion stuff go by ... in an architecture that is so heavily based on Spring 2 already, why wasn't Spring Web Flow used? Don't know much about SWF, but we had a meeting with Jürgen Höller from interface21 where he helped designing the integration of the conversation scope with Spring including the persistence stuff. If SWF would have been possible to do this he would have said it. Also Fusion do depend on Spring 2, but not that hard ... for sure, it uses its possibility to create custom scopes and makes use of their persistence framework, though, its still modular enough that - if JSF will ever allow custom scopes - it can be plugged in there too. What might be possible is, that SWF make use of this new scope too - Fusion is also designed in a way that you can replace the web framework (in the important area). Maybe (I hope for the future) shale-dialog can make use of this scope too, and can provide a solution for the persistence that way. Ciao, Mario -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hi Craig! That's where I don't understand Fusion enough to comment ... it originally appeared to me that the key value add was allocating the entity manager on the way in (when you created the conversation), and cleaning up afterwards when the conversation ended. Yes, this is one of the things we do, the other thing is, that we have to ensure for each call into the conversation scoped bean that this entity manager has been set to the thread so that the following classes will see this entity manager. This is where the Spring aop stuff provides REALLY nice things. That way, its possible to work with multiple conversations within one request; not that you can exchange the beans load by each other. You say, this should be solved at the servlet spec. And I think with our solution we are really close to it. The basic conversation scope works as if it is provided by the servlet spec. You have an additional scope and finding the scope context (multi window awareness) works through an url parameter which will be added by an servlet response wrapper (just like the session id without cookies). Thats why we are not bound to JSF in this area, there is simply no JSF code to achieve this. All I need is access to e.g the request map and session map, that has been refactored into a framework adapter, and if I would like to spend a servlet filter I can avoid even this. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Matthias Wessendorf schrieb: Well... don't lets discuss that much about why another thing... Perhaps all these existing techniques can get their profit from the other one and can also give valuable feedback to web beans / jsr 299. I am happy that *Fusion* (or Kleber) has no dependency to WebFlow. I would prefer a closer connection to the Shale (Basic) Dialog. Actually I personally think this is one area which is very important, Shale as excellent configuration patterns which are currently missing in fusion and a closer tie could benefit both frameworks I guess. Fusion started out from the idea of being able to have something conversational without having to have an entire configuration system, but there are many usecases where a conversation system can solve a lot of issues. So I personally now think, that having both and also having persistence control in it is probably the best way to go. No configuration for the easy usecases (which are the usual 50-70% and having something with more control on the configuration side for the more complicated ones. Funny that Seam started off as well configuration less, and now has moved into a we support both approach. However... it's good to have the choice... Take a look at ORM or web frameworks... there are more than one, doing 99% same like the other... also the advent of JSF didn't stop that (like GWT for instance). Actually there are not too many choices of such systems currently You only have seam and fusion/kleber which can do full persistencecontext control. I personally think, Seam is a work of pure genious, it is seldom that a first approach does most of the things right. But Seam itself, has too string tie ins into ejb3 and into jsf (I love ejb3 and I am not an enemy of JSF obviously, but I still see it as a problem) probably and makes some automatic assumptions which are perfectly ok for a framework which tries to ease things, but often you do not want to lose this control entirely. For instance one area of this we make the assumptions for you in Seam is the passing from the master to the detail which happens automatically. I once did a testprogram in Seam and thought afterwards to myself, what has happened here, I want to know... While it was good for the end user who does not want to think about it, something in there broke to my knowledge simply the way the tomahawk handles the tables, so tomahawk was incompatible to seams handling of master detail relationships. I am not going into detail here, because I neither remember the exact automatisms nor the exact details why the tomahawk table does not work. One of the problems I have faced the last week, was to find a way to handle the master detail relationships the way I wanted to have them, in a transparent way, which does not take away control. I had two ways I either could preinitialize the detail conversation in the master and load the detail or I could use the updateActionListener like I would anyway, I opted for a simple updateActionListener. Fusion was low level enough to leave me the control and did not take assumptions on how to handle things from me. I personally would love to see JSR299 go that way, not too make to many assumptions but keep it basic so that others can build upon it. This is too important to push a lot into it, that is probably one of the reasons why the servlets have served us so well for a long time, they kept things basic. And Craig, I agree, scoping should belong at the lowest level possible, but for now I am happy that there are solutions which ease the burden of taking away the endless request, merge, lazy loading, object keeping problems which have plagued us 10 years too long. Orm mappers are a joy to use, if you do not have to fight against them due to endless lazy loading, merge problems.
RE: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Just out of curiosity, why is this part of MyFaces as opposed to Shale. It sounds more like something that belongs there... ~~~ Kito D. Mann - Author, JavaServer Faces in Action http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info * Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter! http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 * -Original Message- From: Thomas Spiegl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 6:28 PM To: MyFaces Development Subject: Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming another one ... Apache MyFaces Edge On 2/28/07, Jeff Bischoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad you liked it. Yeah I figured it would be pretty common name, but at least not as bad as Spyder! (taken by both SP ETF fund and major winter sports gear company) Anyway it's a cool name, but probably too common Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi Jeff! Apache Myfaces Spider I like it, though the first hit in google with software spider results in http://www.spider-software.de/ Ciao, Mario -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hi ! Just out of curiosity, why is this part of MyFaces as opposed to Shale. It sounds more like something that belongs there... We developed it under the MyFaces umbrella during the last months, we started with a tag base way until we reached the spring based solution we have now. So, thats why it's still here. We will see what the future brings. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Might be significant that two people have asked this question so far :-) On 3/1/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi ! Just out of curiosity, why is this part of MyFaces as opposed to Shale. It sounds more like something that belongs there... We developed it under the MyFaces umbrella during the last months, we started with a tag base way until we reached the spring based solution we have now. So, thats why it's still here. We will see what the future brings. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
and may be thats because shale has chosen a different approach? On 3/2/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi ! Just out of curiosity, why is this part of MyFaces as opposed to Shale. It sounds more like something that belongs there... We developed it under the MyFaces umbrella during the last months, we started with a tag base way until we reached the spring based solution we have now. So, thats why it's still here. We will see what the future brings. Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
I wonder how Kleber sounds for English native speakers? regards, Martin On 2/27/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 for Apache MyFaces Kleber On 2/27/07, Arash Rajaeeyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I propose Chasb Chasb means Glue in my native language, we can use other translations of glue like colle colla Kleber lijm κόλλα клей colagem pegamento On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, It's up to you, but I'd think using a wiki page would be far easier to manage. You can propose names, and then group them as they're added: I thought that too, and I'll do so tomorrow, for now letz use the jira just to collect the names without any bias. I'll close the jira (maybe tomorrow if no new names follow) and then we should stop proposing new names, at that time I'll take them over to a wiki page and we can start to sort out stuff. I'll maintain the wiki page then; based on ml discussions. Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
same like glue sounds to me ... On 2/28/07, Martin Marinschek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder how Kleber sounds for English native speakers? regards, Martin On 2/27/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 for Apache MyFaces Kleber On 2/27/07, Arash Rajaeeyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I propose Chasb Chasb means Glue in my native language, we can use other translations of glue like colle colla Kleber lijm κόλλα клей colagem pegamento On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, It's up to you, but I'd think using a wiki page would be far easier to manage. You can propose names, and then group them as they're added: I thought that too, and I'll do so tomorrow, for now letz use the jira just to collect the names without any bias. I'll close the jira (maybe tomorrow if no new names follow) and then we should stop proposing new names, at that time I'll take them over to a wiki page and we can start to sort out stuff. I'll maintain the wiki page then; based on ml discussions. Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hey, I wonder how Kleber sounds for English native speakers? I bet it sounds horrible . I hope so :-) Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Well, at times a word means something different in another language, or sounds like a different word? regards, Martin On 2/28/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: same like glue sounds to me ... On 2/28/07, Martin Marinschek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder how Kleber sounds for English native speakers? regards, Martin On 2/27/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 for Apache MyFaces Kleber On 2/27/07, Arash Rajaeeyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I propose Chasb Chasb means Glue in my native language, we can use other translations of glue like colle colla Kleber lijm κόλλα клей colagem pegamento On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, It's up to you, but I'd think using a wiki page would be far easier to manage. You can propose names, and then group them as they're added: I thought that too, and I'll do so tomorrow, for now letz use the jira just to collect the names without any bias. I'll close the jira (maybe tomorrow if no new names follow) and then we should stop proposing new names, at that time I'll take them over to a wiki page and we can start to sort out stuff. I'll maintain the wiki page then; based on ml discussions. Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
[POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
Hi! Ok, here we go. This is a poll where I hope that we can sort out the most of the names below (shouldn't be that hard ;-), afterwards I hope we are stripped down to max 4 names where we can start a vote then. Thanks for your time! Just remove the names you don't like, I'll try to sum up those decisions on the wiki page then. == Candidates == * Apache MyFaces Connections * Apache MyFaces Vista * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Defender * Apache MyFaces Seamless * Apache MyFaces Mergence * Apache MyFaces Accretion * Apache MyFaces Collective * Apache MyFaces Aurora * Apache MyFaces Concerto * Apache MyFaces Orchestra * Apache MyFaces ease * Apache MyFaces Snug * Apache MyFaces Rush * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Piletra * Apache MyFaces Kleber * Apache MyFaces Sepia * Apache MyFaces Chasb * Apache MyFaces Rapid * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Pure * Apache MyFaces Direct * Apache MyFaces Alta * Apache MyFaces Sublime * Apache MyFaces Platypus * Apache MyFaces Brevi Ciao, Mario
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
My favorites. * Apache MyFaces Connections * Apache MyFaces Mergence * Apache MyFaces Aurora * Apache MyFaces Concerto * Apache MyFaces ease * Apache MyFaces Snug * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Alta * Apache MyFaces Brevi Sorry for the double names - copypaste failure :-(
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
my poll: - Kleber - Chasb - Simplex - Platypus On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! Ok, here we go. This is a poll where I hope that we can sort out the most of the names below (shouldn't be that hard ;-), afterwards I hope we are stripped down to max 4 names where we can start a vote then. Thanks for your time! Just remove the names you don't like, I'll try to sum up those decisions on the wiki page then. == Candidates == * Apache MyFaces Connections * Apache MyFaces Vista * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Defender * Apache MyFaces Seamless * Apache MyFaces Mergence * Apache MyFaces Accretion * Apache MyFaces Collective * Apache MyFaces Aurora * Apache MyFaces Concerto * Apache MyFaces Orchestra * Apache MyFaces ease * Apache MyFaces Snug * Apache MyFaces Rush * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Piletra * Apache MyFaces Kleber * Apache MyFaces Sepia * Apache MyFaces Chasb * Apache MyFaces Rapid * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Pure * Apache MyFaces Direct * Apache MyFaces Alta * Apache MyFaces Sublime * Apache MyFaces Platypus * Apache MyFaces Brevi Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
Kleber On 2/28/07, Arash Rajaeeyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: my poll: Kleber Chasb Simplex Platypus On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! Ok, here we go. This is a poll where I hope that we can sort out the most of the names below (shouldn't be that hard ;-), afterwards I hope we are stripped down to max 4 names where we can start a vote then. Thanks for your time! Just remove the names you don't like, I'll try to sum up those decisions on the wiki page then. == Candidates == * Apache MyFaces Connections * Apache MyFaces Vista * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Defender * Apache MyFaces Seamless * Apache MyFaces Mergence * Apache MyFaces Accretion * Apache MyFaces Collective * Apache MyFaces Aurora * Apache MyFaces Concerto * Apache MyFaces Orchestra * Apache MyFaces ease * Apache MyFaces Snug * Apache MyFaces Rush * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Piletra * Apache MyFaces Kleber * Apache MyFaces Sepia * Apache MyFaces Chasb * Apache MyFaces Rapid * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Pure * Apache MyFaces Direct * Apache MyFaces Alta * Apache MyFaces Sublime * Apache MyFaces Platypus * Apache MyFaces Brevi Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
Mario, Please include a description of Fusion on the wiki page [1]. With out a good understanding on what the product is, it is hard to name it. Paul Spencer [1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/ApacheMyFacesFusion Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi! Ok, here we go. This is a poll where I hope that we can sort out the most of the names below (shouldn't be that hard ;-), afterwards I hope we are stripped down to max 4 names where we can start a vote then. Thanks for your time! Just remove the names you don't like, I'll try to sum up those decisions on the wiki page then. == Candidates == * Apache MyFaces Connections * Apache MyFaces Vista * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Defender * Apache MyFaces Seamless * Apache MyFaces Mergence * Apache MyFaces Accretion * Apache MyFaces Collective * Apache MyFaces Aurora * Apache MyFaces Concerto * Apache MyFaces Orchestra * Apache MyFaces ease * Apache MyFaces Snug * Apache MyFaces Rush * Apache MyFaces Salida * Apache MyFaces Piletra * Apache MyFaces Kleber * Apache MyFaces Sepia * Apache MyFaces Chasb * Apache MyFaces Rapid * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Custos * Apache MyFaces Coire * Apache MyFaces Simplex * Apache MyFaces Transit * Apache MyFaces Tenere * Apache MyFaces Memini * Apache MyFaces Memento * Apache MyFaces Pure * Apache MyFaces Direct * Apache MyFaces Alta * Apache MyFaces Sublime * Apache MyFaces Platypus * Apache MyFaces Brevi Ciao, Mario
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
Hi Paul! Please include a description of Fusion on the wiki page [1]. With out a good understanding on what the product is, it is hard to name it. Done, I hope I managed to express things sufficient. Ciao, Mario [1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/ApacheMyFacesFusion
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
Thanks, Now I know what it is. Paul Spencer Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi Paul! Please include a description of Fusion on the wiki page [1]. With out a good understanding on what the product is, it is hard to name it. Done, I hope I managed to express things sufficient. Ciao, Mario [1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/ApacheMyFacesFusion
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
It probably sounds like Clever. It looks like Keebler (a cookie/cracker manufacturer). On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, I wonder how Kleber sounds for English native speakers? I bet it sounds horrible . I hope so :-) Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Mike Kienenberger schrieb: It probably sounds like Clever. Hmmm I start to like it :-)
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
kleber simplex salida
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Ok, then I like it, and it gets my vote (on the other thread). regards, Martin On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Kienenberger schrieb: It probably sounds like Clever. Hmmm I start to like it :-) -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
I like a lot of the names, but Apache MyFaces Kleber is doing exactly what the word means in German ;) regards, Martin On 2/28/07, Paul Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Now I know what it is. Paul Spencer Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi Paul! Please include a description of Fusion on the wiki page [1]. With out a good understanding on what the product is, it is hard to name it. Done, I hope I managed to express things sufficient. Ciao, Mario [1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/ApacheMyFacesFusion -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Manfred Geiler wrote: Apache MyFaces Orchestra? --Manfred I like the sound of this for a product. I agree though, that something along the lines of glue would be very intuitive for this particular subproject. btw, Kleber will draw blank stares from us english native-speakers. :D
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
Kleber On 2/28/07, Martin Marinschek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like a lot of the names, but Apache MyFaces Kleber is doing exactly what the word means in German ;) regards, Martin On 2/28/07, Paul Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Now I know what it is. Paul Spencer Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi Paul! Please include a description of Fusion on the wiki page [1]. With out a good understanding on what the product is, it is hard to name it. Done, I hope I managed to express things sufficient. Ciao, Mario [1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/ApacheMyFacesFusion -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [POLL] Sort out of MyFaces Fusion Naming candidates
I know it is not on the list but how about Apache MyFaces Repartee. The definition [1] is similar to what the product does. [1] http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/repartee Paul Spencer Paul Spencer wrote: Thanks, Now I know what it is. Paul Spencer Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi Paul! Please include a description of Fusion on the wiki page [1]. With out a good understanding on what the product is, it is hard to name it. Done, I hope I managed to express things sufficient. Ciao, Mario [1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/ApacheMyFacesFusion
RE: MyFaces Fusion Naming
I would pronounce Kleber as klee-ber with a long E sound like cleaver (a large knife or an instrument for cutting things apart, which might be ironic given the word's meaning in German). The word Kleber has no obvious meaning in English. Even after reading the description on the Wiki page, I still have no idea what this stuff is supposed to do or how it is to be used. If it has primarily to do with something called conversations (whatever that means), maybe use a name like conversation or a synonym in some language would be better? Richard J. Barbalace Cambridge, MA, USA -Original Message- From: Mike Kienenberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:21 AM To: MyFaces Development Subject: Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming It probably sounds like Clever. It looks like Keebler (a cookie/cracker manufacturer). On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, I wonder how Kleber sounds for English native speakers? I bet it sounds horrible . I hope so :-) Ciao, Mario The information transmitted in this electronic communication is intended only for the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this information in error, please contact the Compliance HelpLine at 800-856-1983 and properly dispose of this information.
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
OK, nix my previous vote. I just added the following to the JIRA: The United States of MyFaces (joke) Apache MyFaces States Apache MyFaces StateConverse Apache MyFaces Converse Apache MyFaces Talk Apache MyFaces StateOrchestra Apache MyFaces Music Apache MyFaces Debate Apache MyFaces Fellowship --- I Like this one -- Grant Smith
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
2 more ... Apache MyFaces Cement Apache MyFaces Plaster On 2/28/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, nix my previous vote. I just added the following to the JIRA: The United States of MyFaces (joke) Apache MyFaces States Apache MyFaces StateConverse Apache MyFaces Converse Apache MyFaces Talk Apache MyFaces StateOrchestra Apache MyFaces Music Apache MyFaces Debate Apache MyFaces Fellowship --- I Like this one -- Grant Smith -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
I like em :D Thomas Spiegl wrote: 2 more ... Apache MyFaces Cement Apache MyFaces Plaster On 2/28/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, nix my previous vote. I just added the following to the JIRA: The United States of MyFaces (joke) Apache MyFaces States Apache MyFaces StateConverse Apache MyFaces Converse Apache MyFaces Talk Apache MyFaces StateOrchestra Apache MyFaces Music Apache MyFaces Debate Apache MyFaces Fellowship --- I Like this one -- Grant Smith
RE: Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
I would avoid any nouns associated with 'heavy', I think it's contradictory to what Fusion is attempting to do. Stick to: http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/fusion 2 more ... Apache MyFaces Cement Apache MyFaces Plaster On 2/28/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, nix my previous vote. I just added the following to the JIRA: The United States of MyFaces (joke) Apache MyFaces States Apache MyFaces StateConverse Apache MyFaces Converse Apache MyFaces Talk Apache MyFaces StateOrchestra Apache MyFaces Music Apache MyFaces Debate Apache MyFaces Fellowship --- I Like this one -- Grant Smith -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
In that case, how about: Apache Myfaces Spider ...as in Spider Webs... obviously, can't use web itself :P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would avoid any nouns associated with 'heavy', I think it's contradictory to what Fusion is attempting to do. Stick to: http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/fusion 2 more ... Apache MyFaces Cement Apache MyFaces Plaster On 2/28/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, nix my previous vote. I just added the following to the JIRA: The United States of MyFaces (joke) Apache MyFaces States Apache MyFaces StateConverse Apache MyFaces Converse Apache MyFaces Talk Apache MyFaces StateOrchestra Apache MyFaces Music Apache MyFaces Debate Apache MyFaces Fellowship --- I Like this one -- Grant Smith -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hi Jeff! Apache Myfaces Spider I like it, though the first hit in google with software spider results in http://www.spider-software.de/ Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Glad you liked it. Yeah I figured it would be pretty common name, but at least not as bad as Spyder! (taken by both SP ETF fund and major winter sports gear company) Anyway it's a cool name, but probably too common Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi Jeff! Apache Myfaces Spider I like it, though the first hit in google with software spider results in http://www.spider-software.de/ Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
another one ... Apache MyFaces Edge On 2/28/07, Jeff Bischoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad you liked it. Yeah I figured it would be pretty common name, but at least not as bad as Spyder! (taken by both SP ETF fund and major winter sports gear company) Anyway it's a cool name, but probably too common Mario Ivankovits wrote: Hi Jeff! Apache Myfaces Spider I like it, though the first hit in google with software spider results in http://www.spider-software.de/ Ciao, Mario -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hi! Ok, I'll start the naming question now. My personal favorit for the new library still is MyFaces Fusion, for what I have seen on the Internet and the United States Patent and Trademark Office there is already a oracle product called Oracle Fusion, though, they trademarked the whole phrase. Then the first few hits at googe are: Fusion MX Fusion Software NetObjects Fusion From the top of my head I also remember Adobe Cold Fusion (couldn't find the trademark) So from MY legal point of view MyFaces Fusion is safe as long as we assure that the official name of the library contains the name MyFaces too. What do you think? Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
So from MY legal point of view MyFaces Fusion is safe as long as we assure that the official name of the library contains the name MyFaces too. quick note, that is should be Apache MyFaces Fusion instead of just MyFaces Fusion What do you think? Ciao, Mario -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
I personally like fusion Mario Ivankovits schrieb: Hi! Ok, I'll start the naming question now. My personal favorit for the new library still is MyFaces Fusion, for what I have seen on the Internet and the United States Patent and Trademark Office there is already a oracle product called Oracle Fusion, though, they trademarked the whole phrase. Then the first few hits at googe are: Fusion MX Fusion Software NetObjects Fusion From the top of my head I also remember Adobe Cold Fusion (couldn't find the trademark) So from MY legal point of view MyFaces Fusion is safe as long as we assure that the official name of the library contains the name MyFaces too. What do you think? Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hi Matthias! So from MY legal point of view MyFaces Fusion is safe as long as we assure that the official name of the library contains the name MyFaces too. quick note, that is should be Apache MyFaces Fusion instead of just MyFaces Fusion Right, thanks for the pointer! Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Mario Ivankovits schrieb: Hi Matthias! So from MY legal point of view MyFaces Fusion is safe as long as we assure that the official name of the library contains the name MyFaces too. quick note, that is should be Apache MyFaces Fusion instead of just MyFaces Fusion Right, thanks for the pointer! Apache MyFaces Connections?
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Apache MyFaces Sesams ? :-) On 2/27/07, Werner Punz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Ivankovits schrieb: Hi Matthias! So from MY legal point of view MyFaces Fusion is safe as long as we assure that the official name of the library contains the name MyFaces too. quick note, that is should be Apache MyFaces Fusion instead of just MyFaces Fusion Right, thanks for the pointer! Apache MyFaces Connections? -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Matthias Wessendorf schrieb: Apache MyFaces Sesams ? :-) Apache Vista :-D
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Werner Punz schrieb: Matthias Wessendorf schrieb: Apache MyFaces Sesams ? :-) Apache Vista :-D Now a serious one Apache MyFaces Salida
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Now a serious one Apache MyFaces Salida I like the spanish style - one more: Apache MyFaces Defender In Spanish its something like to hold/to know etc Even in English we can argue we defend against detached objects ;-) Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Now a serious one Apache MyFaces Salida I like that one -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
+ 1: Apache MyFaces Fusion - 2 : Apache MyFaces Defender (awful!) +0 : Apache MyFaces Salida (e...) -- Grant Smith
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
There's no way that Fusion as a web development framework is going to pass legal. It doesn't matter if you call it Fusion, MyFaces Fusion, or Apache Myfaces Fusion. Even if it could (and it can't), why would you want to develop product that would be confused with any of the other fusion web frameworks that already exist? On 2/27/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + 1: Apache MyFaces Fusion - 2 : Apache MyFaces Defender (awful!) +0 : Apache MyFaces Salida (e...) -- Grant Smith
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
+1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -1 : Apache MyFaces Sesams On 2/27/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + 1: Apache MyFaces Fusion - 2 : Apache MyFaces Defender (awful!) +0 : Apache MyFaces Salida (e...) -- Grant Smith
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Ok, after reading Mikes mail and looking at these sites http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/ http://www.netobjects.com/index.html I must revert my previous vote: -1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Sesams What about Apache MyFaces Seamless ?! :-) --Manfred On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -1 : Apache MyFaces Sesams On 2/27/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + 1: Apache MyFaces Fusion - 2 : Apache MyFaces Defender (awful!) +0 : Apache MyFaces Salida (e...) -- Grant Smith
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, after reading Mikes mail and looking at these sites http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/ http://www.netobjects.com/index.html I must revert my previous vote: there is also a Fusion from Oracle. -1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Sesams What about Apache MyFaces Seamless ?! haha ! my Sesams was just a fun proposal. I don't think we (the ASF) should take names like that :-) --Manfred On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -1 : Apache MyFaces Sesams On 2/27/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + 1: Apache MyFaces Fusion - 2 : Apache MyFaces Defender (awful!) +0 : Apache MyFaces Salida (e...) -- Grant Smith -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hi Manfred! What about Apache MyFaces Seamless ?! I don't think its a good idea to use anything which sounds like Seam. Seam aims to be much more than I have in mind for Fusion now. See, they integrated stuff to create PDFs lately. I don't wont to suggest - by using nearly the same name - that we provide the same functionality. Even if we do in some areas. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
What about Apache MyFaces Seamless ?! +1 --Manfred On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -1 : Apache MyFaces Sesams On 2/27/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + 1: Apache MyFaces Fusion - 2 : Apache MyFaces Defender (awful!) +0 : Apache MyFaces Salida (e...) -- Grant Smith -- Dennis Byrne
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Ok here are my serious suggestions: * Apache MyFaces Mergence * Apache MyFaces Accretion * Apache MyFaces Collective I have neither checked for legal issues nor do I know how these names sound for native speakers. But I like project names that are not only names but also describe the idea. --Manfred On 2/27/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, after reading Mikes mail and looking at these sites http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/ http://www.netobjects.com/index.html I must revert my previous vote: there is also a Fusion from Oracle. -1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Sesams What about Apache MyFaces Seamless ?! haha ! my Sesams was just a fun proposal. I don't think we (the ASF) should take names like that :-) --Manfred On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1: Apache MyFaces Fusion -0.9 : Apache MyFaces Salida -1 : Apache MyFaces Defender -1 : Apache MyFaces Sesams On 2/27/07, Grant Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + 1: Apache MyFaces Fusion - 2 : Apache MyFaces Defender (awful!) +0 : Apache MyFaces Salida (e...) -- Grant Smith -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
What about something completely different: Apache MyFaces Aurora Positive thing, no? Seriously. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Apache Faces Concerto anyone? Zubin. On 2/27/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about something completely different: Apache MyFaces Aurora Positive thing, no? Seriously. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Apache MyFaces Orchestra? --Manfred On 2/27/07, Zubin Wadia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache Faces Concerto anyone? Zubin. On 2/27/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about something completely different: Apache MyFaces Aurora Positive thing, no? Seriously. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
guys, let's collect these names in a jira task. eclipse did that in the past for one for their naming issues and the Trinidad podling did it as well. Also this will give users a change to put in their ideas as well -M On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache MyFaces Orchestra? --Manfred On 2/27/07, Zubin Wadia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache Faces Concerto anyone? Zubin. On 2/27/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about something completely different: Apache MyFaces Aurora Positive thing, no? Seriously. Ciao, Mario -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
I'd suggest Maestro since it focuses on different aspects like orm, view and etc. My other suggestion will be Lamborghini but unfortunately it's taken by a company some time ago:) Cheers, Cagatay On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache MyFaces Orchestra? --Manfred On 2/27/07, Zubin Wadia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache Faces Concerto anyone? Zubin. On 2/27/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about something completely different: Apache MyFaces Aurora Positive thing, no? Seriously. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
well... these aren't that easy to use... please consider registered names as a no :-) On 2/27/07, Cagatay Civici [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd suggest Maestro since it focuses on different aspects like orm, view and etc. My other suggestion will be Lamborghini but unfortunately it's taken by a company some time ago:) Cheers, Cagatay On 2/27/07, Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache MyFaces Orchestra? --Manfred On 2/27/07, Zubin Wadia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache Faces Concerto anyone? Zubin. On 2/27/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about something completely different: Apache MyFaces Aurora Positive thing, no? Seriously. Ciao, Mario -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
It's up to you, but I'd think using a wiki page would be far easier to manage. You can propose names, and then group them as they're added: - current contenders - names eliminated because On 2/27/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, let's collect these names in a jira task. here we go: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MYFACES-1546 Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Dennis Byrne schrieb: What about Apache MyFaces Seamless ?! +1 Definite -1 on that, I do not want to get into a fight with the jboss guys over such a name mario is right, even if we cover certain common grounds, seam has an entirely different scope. After all we have a somewhat rought but mostly good cooperation with the jboss guys We have no need to start another Eclipse like naming issue here.
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Mike, It's up to you, but I'd think using a wiki page would be far easier to manage. You can propose names, and then group them as they're added: I thought that too, and I'll do so tomorrow, for now letz use the jira just to collect the names without any bias. I'll close the jira (maybe tomorrow if no new names follow) and then we should stop proposing new names, at that time I'll take them over to a wiki page and we can start to sort out stuff. I'll maintain the wiki page then; based on ml discussions. Ciao, Mario
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
This was definitely no serious suggestion. Of course. Therefore the smiley. Sorry if I did not state this clear enough. Of course we all have no interest in any (malicious) allusion [is innuendo a better word?]. Although perhaps every open source community should have enough humor to bear such a thing. Well, on the other hand if someone would start a MyCuterFaces implementation we would not be amused about the name, right? --Manfred On 2/27/07, Werner Punz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Byrne schrieb: What about Apache MyFaces Seamless ?! +1 Definite -1 on that, I do not want to get into a fight with the jboss guys over such a name mario is right, even if we cover certain common grounds, seam has an entirely different scope. After all we have a somewhat rought but mostly good cooperation with the jboss guys We have no need to start another Eclipse like naming issue here.
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
I propose Chasb Chasb means Glue in my native language, we can use other translations of glue like colle colla Kleber lijm κόλλα клей colagem pegamento On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, It's up to you, but I'd think using a wiki page would be far easier to manage. You can propose names, and then group them as they're added: I thought that too, and I'll do so tomorrow, for now letz use the jira just to collect the names without any bias. I'll close the jira (maybe tomorrow if no new names follow) and then we should stop proposing new names, at that time I'll take them over to a wiki page and we can start to sort out stuff. I'll maintain the wiki page then; based on ml discussions. Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
+1 for Apache MyFaces Kleber On 2/27/07, Arash Rajaeeyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I propose Chasb Chasb means Glue in my native language, we can use other translations of glue like colle colla Kleber lijm κόλλα клей colagem pegamento On 2/28/07, Mario Ivankovits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, It's up to you, but I'd think using a wiki page would be far easier to manage. You can propose names, and then group them as they're added: I thought that too, and I'll do so tomorrow, for now letz use the jira just to collect the names without any bias. I'll close the jira (maybe tomorrow if no new names follow) and then we should stop proposing new names, at that time I'll take them over to a wiki page and we can start to sort out stuff. I'll maintain the wiki page then; based on ml discussions. Ciao, Mario -- Arash Rajaeeyan -- Matthias Wessendorf http://tinyurl.com/fmywh further stuff: blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
Re: MyFaces Fusion Naming
Hey, let's collect these names in a jira task. here we go: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MYFACES-1546 Ciao, Mario
