Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 6: Debugging in D by Iain Buclaw

2014-07-15 Thread Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d-announce
Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 11:59:42 +1000 schrieb Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com: On 15 July 2014 00:32, Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:15:01 +1000 schrieb Manu via

Re: DMD v2.066.0-b3

2014-07-15 Thread Rainer Schuetze via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 15.07.2014 04:06, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 15 July 2014 07:37, Rainer Schuetze via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com mailto:digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 14.07.2014 16:17, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: I've

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 6: Debugging in D by Iain Buclaw

2014-07-15 Thread Rainer Schuetze via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 15.07.2014 04:02, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 15 July 2014 04:27, Rainer Schuetze via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com mailto:digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 14.07.2014 08:22, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 6: Debugging in D by Iain Buclaw

2014-07-15 Thread Rainer Schuetze via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 15.07.2014 04:35, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 15 July 2014 04:27, Rainer Schuetze via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com mailto:digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 14.07.2014 08:22, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 6: Debugging in D by Iain Buclaw

2014-07-15 Thread Rainer Schuetze via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 11.07.2014 20:15, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 11 July 2014 16:48, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: Upvote!! http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2afm4x/dconf_2014_day_2_talk_6_debugging_in_d_by_iain/

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 7: Tiny, Ubiquitous Machines Powered by D by Michael D. Franklin

2014-07-15 Thread Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d-announce
Am Mon, 14 Jul 2014 11:17:26 -0700 schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2aoqov/dconf_2014_day_2_talk_7_tiny_ubiquitous_machines/ https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/884725944874421

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 3: Designing an Aurora: A Glimpse at the Graphical Future of D by Adam Wilson

2014-07-15 Thread Kapps via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 05:40:29 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: Yes, performance is not a goal, because we are intentionally not targeting scenarios where that is the first concern. I understand that a lot of people want Aurora to be a high-performance graphics API with a focus on games, but that

DConf 2014 Keynote: High Performance Code Using D by Walter Bright

2014-07-15 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d-announce
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2aruaf/dconf_2014_keynote_high_performance_code_using_d/ https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/885322668148082 https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/489081312297635840 Andrei

Re: DConf 2014 Keynote: High Performance Code Using D by Walter Bright

2014-07-15 Thread John via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 16:20:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2aruaf/dconf_2014_keynote_high_performance_code_using_d/ https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/885322668148082 https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/489081312297635840

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 7: Tiny, Ubiquitous Machines Powered by D by Michael D. Franklin

2014-07-15 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d-announce
The talk was nice, and it's the chance I was waiting to ask a question to the speaker. I've read a very nice paper (+ slides) about using some specialized but simple type system rules to make less bug-prone the bit-twiddling kind of code, Bit-Level Types for High-Level Reasoning by Ranjit

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 7: Tiny, Ubiquitous Machines Powered by D by Michael D. Franklin

2014-07-15 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d-announce
So are those things a good addition to Phobos for your kind of programming? (additions to the language can be discussed later). You can look at the slides for a quicker overview, or you can ask me here for a summary, if necessary. Bye, bearophile

Re: DConf 2014 Keynote: High Performance Code Using D by Walter Bright

2014-07-15 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 7/15/2014 11:28 AM, John wrote: At the end of this video, it sounds like it ends abruptly.. While answering a question, Walter says.. 'it turns out..' and the video ends there. That's when my time ran out and I vanished in a puff of greasy black smoke.

Re: DConf 2014 Keynote: High Performance Code Using D by Walter Bright

2014-07-15 Thread Justin Whear via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 18:28:34 +, John wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 16:20:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2aruaf/ dconf_2014_keynote_high_performance_code_using_d/ https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/885322668148082

Re: DConf 2014 Keynote: High Performance Code Using D by Walter Bright

2014-07-15 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 16:20:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2aruaf/dconf_2014_keynote_high_performance_code_using_d/ https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/885322668148082 https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/489081312297635840 Will

Re: DConf 2014 Keynote: High Performance Code Using D by Walter Bright

2014-07-15 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 7/15/2014 12:36 PM, Justin Whear wrote: The sentence was it turns out the simple compiler enhancement I am about to reveal makes all code run 5x faster. That does it. You're on the hook for writing my next material!

DMD v2.066.0-b4

2014-07-15 Thread Andrew Edwards via Digitalmars-d-announce
The v2.066.0-b4 binaries are now available. The review period for beta 4 will run until 0700 UTC ( PDT, 0300 EDT, 1600 JST) on 21 July 2014, at which time binaries for B5 will be produced and released. Due diligence in identifying regressions as early as possible is requested and

Re: DMD v2.066.0-b4

2014-07-15 Thread safety0ff via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 22:40:02 UTC, Andrew Edwards wrote: Outstanding regressions impeding release are: It would be nice if back-end issues got some attention prior to releases. For example: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9465 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11435

Re: DMD v2.066.0-b4

2014-07-15 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d-announce
bug tracker is just a thing to collecting dust. you can write your report there, or to /dev/null, or not write it at all -- the result will be the same. i know at least 3 bugs in phobos and at least one very nasty bug in compiler (which causes UB, so-called heisenbug), but have no motivation to

Re: DConf 2014 Day 2 Talk 3: Designing an Aurora: A Glimpse at the Graphical Future of D by Adam Wilson

2014-07-15 Thread Adam Wilson via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 09:12:01 -0700, Kapps opantm2+s...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 05:40:29 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: Yes, performance is not a goal, because we are intentionally not targeting scenarios where that is the first concern. I understand that a lot of people want

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 14/07/14 18:16, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Mine is here: http://wiki.dlang.org/User:Quickfur/DIP_scope From the DIP: The 'scope' keyword has been around for years, yet it is barely implemented and it's unclear just what it's supposed to mean I don't know if it's worth

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread simendsjo via Digitalmars-d
On 07/15/2014 08:42 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 14/07/14 18:16, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Mine is here: http://wiki.dlang.org/User:Quickfur/DIP_scope From the DIP: The 'scope' keyword has been around for years, yet it is barely implemented and it's unclear just what

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 15/07/14 01:48, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Yes, but since the extent of this scope is unknown from inside the function body, it doesn't easily lend itself nicely to check things like this: int* ptr; void func(scope int* arg) { ptr = arg; // should

Re: Thread Attributes

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 14/07/14 23:26, Jonathan Marler wrote: Ah I see now. It looks like AST macros are going to open up alot of new paradigms, I'm excited to see how they progress and what they can do. It doesn't get us all the way there in this example but its a very good alternative without having to add

Re: File extension of c++ files used on d compiler sources

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 15/07/14 04:21, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Not being usable in an IDE is a pretty big cost IMO. (Even though I myself don't even use IDE's!) Maybe you might stand a chance of convincing Walter to do it. Probably after the upcoming release, since right now the focus is to get that

Re: File extension of c++ files used on d compiler sources

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 15/07/14 01:14, Domingo Alvarez Duarte wrote: Hello ! I'm starting to look at the d compiler sources and I'm using netbeans to navigate through the sources, netbeans is very good at showing warnings/errors with it's own internal parser, but because all the c++ source files use .c as file

Re: LinkedIn Article to be: Why you need to start moving off C/C++ to D, now.

2014-07-15 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 23:22:54 UTC, John Carter wrote: I have been digesting every dconf2014 video posted so far. See the 2013 ones too: http://dconf.org/2013/schedule/index.html

Re: Review: std.logger

2014-07-15 Thread Dragos Carp via Digitalmars-d
+1 for not having the conditional log Not so sure about that. -- Andrei I agree that the conditional could be useful. But I think that the current API definition where we already have some strange letter combinations ('l', 'c', 'f') is an one-way street, that throws away some good

Re: How can I dump an expression into log and execute it

2014-07-15 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
Ary Borenszweig wrote in message news:lq199i$1312$1...@digitalmars.com... I can't seem to learn anything about this language without paying first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_(programming_language) It allows you to edit syntax as you go! 1 2 3 + + . (prints 6) : 1 2 ; : 2 3 ; 1 2 3

Re: Review: std.logger

2014-07-15 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 07:31:39 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote: +1 for not having the conditional log Not so sure about that. -- Andrei I agree that the conditional could be useful. But I think that the current API definition where we already have some strange letter combinations ('l', 'c',

The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d
Spot the bug: template flattenedType(R, uint depth = uint.max) if (isInputRange!R) { static if (depth 0) { static if (!isInputRange!(typeof(R.init.front))) { alias flattenedType = typeof(R.init.front, depth - 1);

Re: File extension of c++ files used on d compiler sources

2014-07-15 Thread John Colvin via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 23:14:52 UTC, Domingo Alvarez Duarte wrote: Hello ! I'm starting to look at the d compiler sources and I'm using netbeans to navigate through the sources, netbeans is very good at showing warnings/errors with it's own internal parser, but because all the c++ source

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Martin Krejcirik via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:40 UTC, Meta wrote: I'll give you a hint: the bug causes flattenedType!R to always returned uint. What is unexpected about that ?

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:20:34 UTC, Martin Krejcirik wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:40 UTC, Meta wrote: I'll give you a hint: the bug causes flattenedType!R to always returned uint. What is unexpected about that ? It makes the behaviour of the template that's unexpected.

Re: File extension of c++ files used on d compiler sources

2014-07-15 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 02:16:37 UTC, Jesse Phillips wrote: On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 23:14:52 UTC, Domingo Alvarez Duarte wrote: It's fine that D is innovating in the programming language field but not all conventions are bad ones. Cheers ! Legacy, pretty sure the early C++ days used

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Meta: Spot the bug: We can start killing those commas in D 2.067 :-) Bye, bearophile

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Vic via Digitalmars-d
To illustrate point on D complexity: https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*_gRpHqzB-1zbG17jdxGPaQ.png It appears that it mission is to be Java, vs a system lang. hth On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 03:55:02 UTC, Vic wrote: snip

Re: Review: std.logger

2014-07-15 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 03:22:46 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 20:45:29 UTC, Jeremy Powers via Digitalmars-d wrote: The logging API in the standard library needs to be able to support this kind of thing. Doesn't mean it actually needs to be included in the

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 09:24:14 UTC, Vic wrote: To illustrate point on D complexity: https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*_gRpHqzB-1zbG17jdxGPaQ.png It appears that it mission is to be Java, vs a system lang. hth On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 03:55:02 UTC, Vic wrote: snip

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 15/07/14 08:46, simendsjo wrote: Isn't both 1 and 2 deprecated? Depends on what you mean by deprecated. People are keep saying that but it's not. Nothing, except for people saying that, indicates that. No deprecation message, no warning, nothing about it in the documentation. Even

Re: D blog?

2014-07-15 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 00:41:12 UTC, Jesse Phillips wrote: On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 19:41:19 UTC, Joakim wrote: whereas I'm asking about having an official blog on dlang.org and how much interest there is from others to contribute to one. This is my question, what do you expect people

Re: Review: std.logger

2014-07-15 Thread linkrope via Digitalmars-d
What does 'errorlcf' mean? You specify log level 'error' and then you specify another log level ('l): which log level wins? The order of these modifier letters has to be 'lcf', not 'cfl', ...? On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:12 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: I wouldn't call them

Re: D blog?

2014-07-15 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d
On 7/15/2014 7:17 PM, Joakim wrote: I've offered to administer it. That means either just technically setting the app up and maintaining it or managing and generating posts, or both, whatever's necessary. The question is whether others think we need an official blog, and if so, would they

Re: Worrying attitudes to the branding of the D language

2014-07-15 Thread Alix Pexton via Digitalmars-d
On 07/07/2014 11:35 AM, Alix Pexton wrote: On 03/07/2014 8:50 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 7/3/2014 4:40 AM, Alix Pexton wrote: I agree! I started working on this little document last night while angry and tired, maybe it should find its way to the wiki.

Re: D blog?

2014-07-15 Thread Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 10:17:26 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 00:41:12 UTC, Jesse Phillips wrote: On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 19:41:19 UTC, Joakim wrote: whereas I'm asking about having an official blog on dlang.org and how much interest there is from others to contribute

D logo copyright

2014-07-15 Thread Alix Pexton via Digitalmars-d
I've been researching what is necessary to transfer the copyright of the D logo to Digital Mars, which is complicated by international issues. It seems that the term copyright is often aliased to the German Deutsches Urheberrecht which is what we call the moral rights of the author in the UK.

Re: Review: std.logger

2014-07-15 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 10:33:24 UTC, linkrope wrote: What does 'errorlcf' mean? You specify log level 'error' and then you specify another log level ('l): which log level wins? The order of these modifier letters has to be 'lcf', not 'cfl', ...? good point one l to much its errorcf

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 06:42:20 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: 1. Allocate classes on the stack: scope bar = new Bar() 4. Scope parameters. This is the part that is unclear what is means/is supposed to mean in the current language These are actually the same thing: if something is stack

Re: LinkedIn Article to be: Why you need to start moving off C/C++ to D, now.

2014-07-15 Thread Wyatt via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 23:22:54 UTC, John Carter wrote: So pointers to sound reasoned analysis of the problems of C/C++/Java are welcome too. http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/ I don't know if FQA is really in the spirit of sound reasoned analysis, but it's certainly thorough! -Wyatt

Re: TypeInfo in the library

2014-07-15 Thread Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d
On Sunday, 13 July 2014 at 15:30:59 UTC, Trass3r wrote: Any news on this? I haven't messed around with it since the winter and probably won't be able to for a while. (The current setup works well enough for me anyway...)

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread JR via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 09:24:14 UTC, Vic wrote: To illustrate point on D complexity: https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*_gRpHqzB-1zbG17jdxGPaQ.png It appears that it mission is to be Java, vs a system lang. hth Maybe I misunderstand the term, but it seems to me that a

Re: What is the Go/NoGo gauge for releases?

2014-07-15 Thread Jerry via Digitalmars-d
Andrew Edwards rid...@yahoo.com writes: On 7/13/14, 7:39 PM, Dicebot wrote: On Sunday, 13 July 2014 at 01:49:16 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: So I have some questions: What is the magic number that will trigger the release? What happens if we never reach that number? Do we just continue

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 15/07/14 14:47, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: These are actually the same thing: if something is stack allocated, it must not allow the reference to escape to remain memory safe... and if the reference is not allowed to escape, stack allocating the object becomes an obvious automatic optimization.

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
On 7/14/2014 10:09 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Google aren't really in the high-end gamedev business. I'm sure I could make Angry Birds run without dropping frames with a GC that took no more than 6ms... a real game, not so simple. Just nitpicking on terminology here, but a lot of the

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 09:19:34AM +0200, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 15/07/14 01:48, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Yes, but since the extent of this scope is unknown from inside the function body, it doesn't easily lend itself nicely to check things like this:

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 08:42:17AM +, bearophile via Digitalmars-d wrote: Meta: Spot the bug: We can start killing those commas in D 2.067 :-) [...] Is that the agreed-on schedule? I'd love to see the comma operator go, too, but I don't recall the core devs agreeing on a deprecation

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
On 7/15/2014 5:24 AM, Vic wrote: To illustrate point on D complexity: https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*_gRpHqzB-1zbG17jdxGPaQ.png It appears that it mission is to be Java, vs a system lang. hth I'll take that remote over a highly-modal one, or worse, a highly-modal one that I

Re: Proposal for design of 'scope' (Was: Re: Opportunities for D)

2014-07-15 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 2014-07-15 16:58, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: But what if 'ptr' is declared in a private binary-only module, and only the signature of 'func' is known? Then what should 'scope' mean to the compiler when 'func' is being called from another module? Hmm, I didn't think of that :( --

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Frustrated via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:40 UTC, Meta wrote: Spot the bug: template flattenedType(R, uint depth = uint.max) if (isInputRange!R) { static if (depth 0) { static if (!isInputRange!(typeof(R.init.front))) { alias

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 16:01:37 UTC, Frustrated wrote: This isn't a bug! It's a logic mistake. Why the heck would you have such a line anyways? alias flattenedType = typeof(R.init.front, depth - 1); The 2nd argument to typeof makes no sense. It shouldn't be on that line at all. Total

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d
On 7/15/14, Frustrated via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:40 UTC, Meta wrote: The 2nd argument to typeof makes no sense. It shouldn't be on that line at all. Total fail by the programmer. Well yeah, real world programmers make mistakes.

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 16 July 2014 00:45, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 7/14/2014 10:09 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I'm particularly worried about libraries. I can do whatever I have to with memory that I control. You can't approach a modern ambitious project

DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d
You may have seen Mike's talk about D on embedded systems and were surprised about Iain's comment that using 'shared' as a replacement for 'volatile' is actually only possible because of a bug in gdc. DIP62 describes how to solve this problem and make embedded programming a first-class citizen in

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Jane Doe via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 16:16:19 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 7/15/14, Frustrated via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:40 UTC, Meta wrote: The 2nd argument to typeof makes no sense. It shouldn't be on that line at all.

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Israel Rodriguez via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:40 UTC, Meta wrote: Spot the bug: template flattenedType(R, uint depth = uint.max) if (isInputRange!R) { static if (depth 0) { static if (!isInputRange!(typeof(R.init.front))) { alias

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread John Colvin via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 16:45:02 UTC, Jane Doe wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 16:16:19 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 7/15/14, Frustrated via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 08:01:40 UTC, Meta wrote: The 2nd argument to

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Jane Doe: So, you wanna nerf everything that could produce the wrong behavior? A smarter question is: How to reduce the number of bugs in D code decreasing the language functionality only very little, and keeping the language handy (or making it even more handy)? There is nothing in this

Weird…

2014-07-15 Thread Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d
Funny how when people send big smiles, they always mention D? :-D :D -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp:

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d
On 07/15/14 18:25, Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d wrote: here again: We need _first-class_ support for embedded programming in D. Workarounds might be available (peek/poke, inline asm) but it will be obvious to most C programmers that C has got the better solution with the volatile

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Martin Krejcirik via Digitalmars-d
The reason for getting rid of it is because it's borderline useless. It causes more accidental bugs than it enables deliberate uses. I find the comma op useful somemtimes. This example shows absolutely nothing of comma wrongdoing. If anything, there could be a warning for passing signed

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d
On 7/15/14, Jane Doe via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Should be reduce the speed limit to 5mph because cars can kill people? No but maybe we should reduce the number of different accounts a single person can use to troll around these forums.

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 04:52:34PM +, Israel Rodriguez via Digitalmars-d wrote: [...] Nuh uh...The comma operator is too valuable to loose... Please cite an example where it is valuable? T -- Without outlines, life would be pointless.

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Artur Skawina: You can already express all the described volatile semantics in GDC's D dialect, in a completely portable way and without using a single asm instruction. What's GDC syntax? Bye, bearophile

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d
Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 17:07:26 + schrieb bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com: Artur Skawina: You can already express all the described volatile semantics in GDC's D dialect, in a completely portable way and without using a single asm instruction. What's GDC syntax? Bye,

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 14:19:49 UTC, John Colvin wrote: However, I would say that it is not recommended. Very large heaps aren't conducive to good GC performance (especially with D's current GC). I now use a hybrid approach where the body of my data is on the C heap - managed manually -

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Martin Krejcirik: I find the comma op useful somemtimes. Please shows us all the cases you can think of (or coming from your own code, or coming from the Web) where you think it's useful. This example shows absolutely nothing of comma wrongdoing. See my precedent answer. If

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d
Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:03:52 +0200 schrieb Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com: Compiler barriers are not workarounds. volatile is not a better solution. It's used in C only because it's defined and reasonably portable; barriers are a language extension, hence dialect

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
On 15 July 2014 17:25, Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: You may have seen Mike's talk about D on embedded systems and were surprised about Iain's comment that using 'shared' as a replacement for 'volatile' is actually only possible because of a bug in gdc.

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 05:03:21PM +, Martin Krejcirik via Digitalmars-d wrote: The reason for getting rid of it is because it's borderline useless. It causes more accidental bugs than it enables deliberate uses. I find the comma op useful somemtimes. Example? T -- Don't drink and

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 13:54:51 UTC, Vic wrote: Xeon CPU lets you use 128Gig, 386 gig, 512 gig, etc. It has become cheap to do that. Java can't hog gigs? Unbelievable.

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d
On 07/15/14 19:07, bearophile via Digitalmars-d wrote: Artur Skawina: You can already express all the described volatile semantics in GDC's D dialect, in a completely portable way and without using a single asm instruction. What's GDC syntax? Some examples:

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 14:09:22 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I don't think ARC would work in D. You'd need support for controlling the reference count in certain situations. You'd need type signatures for different reference types. You'd have to remove the GC.malloc function, as it

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread John Colvin via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:13:46 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 14:19:49 UTC, John Colvin wrote: However, I would say that it is not recommended. Very large heaps aren't conducive to good GC performance (especially with D's current GC). I now use a hybrid approach where the

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Tofu Ninja via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:09:14 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 04:52:34PM +, Israel Rodriguez via Digitalmars-d wrote: [...] Nuh uh...The comma operator is too valuable to loose... Please cite an example where it is valuable? T Yes please, I

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
Johannes Pfau wrote in message news:lq3nf4$rbp$1...@digitalmars.com... Did you even read the section that explains why volatility is a property of the memory address and not of the access (4.2.3)? What's your response to that? This is true, and it's the ideal I guess, but I'm not sure that

Re: Review: std.logger

2014-07-15 Thread Jeremy Powers via Digitalmars-d
Will you then be able to get fully inlined low overhead ringbuffer logging throughout the application and used frameworks? E.g. do low level logging to a ringbuffer that is only saved/mailed upon fatal crashes. This is useful for online services. Yes, apart from the inlined part, I'm not

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d
On 07/15/14 19:11, Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d wrote: Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:03:52 +0200 schrieb Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com: Compiler barriers are not workarounds. volatile is not a better solution. It's used in C only because it's defined and reasonably

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:13:09 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote: Why do shared variables have the privilege to prevent accessing shared memory in inappropriate ways but it's fine to place the burden of checking that all accesses to volatile memory are backed by compiler barriers to the user?

Re: Weird…

2014-07-15 Thread David Gileadi via Digitalmars-d
On 7/15/14, 9:56 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: Funny how when people send big smiles, they always mention D? :-D :D I seem to recall that at some point someone proposed a larger version of :D as a logo for dlang. It even preserves the two moons :D

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d
Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 17:42:47 + schrieb Kagamin s...@here.lot: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:13:09 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote: Why do shared variables have the privilege to prevent accessing shared memory in inappropriate ways but it's fine to place the burden of checking that all

Re: Random points from a D n00b CTO

2014-07-15 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
Am 15.07.2014 19:15, schrieb Kagamin: On Monday, 14 July 2014 at 13:54:51 UTC, Vic wrote: Xeon CPU lets you use 128Gig, 386 gig, 512 gig, etc. It has become cheap to do that. Java can't hog gigs? Unbelievable. Sure it can. http://www.azulsystems.com/

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:50:13 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote: And that's why I say first class support: We don't have shared!(T) we have shared T. And volatile should get it's own qualifier as well. Also some things will just not work with Volatile!T, for example volatile/nonvolatile member

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Martin Krejcirik via Digitalmars-d
Example? For loop with multiple variables and various one liners of questionable utility aside: import std.stdio; bool funk() { static int count; return ++count 1 ? true : false; } void main() { bool flag = false; if (flag funk) writeln(a); else if

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:26:12 UTC, Tofu Ninja wrote: Yes please, I legitimately can't think of any use case. I don't understand why was this was ever introduced to D? What is the use? C compatibility as far as I know.

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:50:13 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote: Then we have a templated struct. Which generates TypeInfo for every instance. Which might generate an Initializer for every instance and it might generate extended debug info for every instance. These are exactly the kind of

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 05:26:11PM +, Tofu Ninja via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 17:09:14 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 04:52:34PM +, Israel Rodriguez via Digitalmars-d wrote: [...] Nuh uh...The comma operator is too valuable to

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 18:08:15 UTC, Martin Krejcirik wrote: Example? For loop with multiple variables and various one liners of questionable utility aside: import std.stdio; bool funk() { static int count; return ++count 1 ? true : false; } void main() { bool flag =

Re: Weird…

2014-07-15 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:47:15AM -0700, David Gileadi via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 7/15/14, 9:56 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: Funny how when people send big smiles, they always mention D? :-D :D I seem to recall that at some point someone proposed a larger version of :D

Re: DIP62: Volatile type qualifier for unoptimizable variables in embedded programming

2014-07-15 Thread Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d
Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:44:51 +0200 schrieb Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com: On 07/15/14 19:11, Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d wrote: Am Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:03:52 +0200 schrieb Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com: Compiler barriers

Re: The Comma Operator's Deprecation Can't Come Soon Enough

2014-07-15 Thread Ali Çehreli via Digitalmars-d
On 07/15/2014 11:08 AM, Martin Krejcirik wrote: Example? For loop with multiple variables and various one liners of questionable utility aside: import std.stdio; bool funk() { static int count; return ++count 1 ? true : false; } void main() { bool flag = false; if

Re: Weird…

2014-07-15 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 7/15/2014 9:56 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: Funny how when people send big smiles, they always mention D? :-D :D Even more amazing, Germans all have D plastered on their cars!

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