Having just done a session at PyConUK 2015 aimed at weaning people of
pure Python and into polyglot – Python with (C++|D|Chapel) (there
should have been a Rust bit but…) – and as people probably heard the D
bit was a bit embarrassing for me, I got some interesting comments
during the rest of the co
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 12:19:48 UTC, Russel Winder
wrote:
Having just done a session at PyConUK 2015 aimed at weaning
people of
pure Python and into polyglot – Python with (C++|D|Chapel)
(there
should have been a Rust bit but…) – and as people probably
heard the D
bit was a bit emba
We should get TV commercials.
I'm not even really kidding, when I see something advertised on
television, it plants a seed in my brain that this brand is
serious and mainstream. After all, they were able to secure a
spot on my local channel!
We're talking about perception here and there may
On 09/23/2015 08:19 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
The most important can be paraphrased as "I had heard of D but as it
was getting no traction, I never looked at it again."
While I agree this is something we need to address, I gotta say: I
*strongly* consider that attitude to be
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 12:19:48 UTC, Russel Winder
wrote:
Having active regional groups is a first important factor, and
that is happening, though perhaps less than would be good.
Having lots of projects on GitHub (and BitBucket) that get
noticed. Clearly everyone is fighting Java
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 15:09:53 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
On 09/23/2015 08:19 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
The most important can be paraphrased as "I had heard of D but
as it
was getting no traction, I never looked at it again."
While I agree this is something
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 13:58:09 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe
wrote:
We should get TV commercials.
I'm not even really kidding, when I see something advertised on
television, it plants a seed in my brain that this brand is
serious and mainstream. After all, they were able to secure a
spot on
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 15:09:53 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
On 09/23/2015 08:19 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
The most important can be paraphrased as "I had heard of D but
as it
was getting no traction, I never looked at it again."
While I agree this is something
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 15:12:13 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
I'm sure others could add to the list. Once these things are
under control, we can worry about marketing.
Hopefully when DMD is refactored and documented it will provide
an avenue for marketing DMD as a nice codebase for people
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 12:19:48 UTC, Russel Winder
wrote:
The most important can be paraphrased as "I had heard of D but
as it was getting no traction, I never looked at it again."
Sad but true. Developers want better tools, but don't even look
at them, unless you hype them. No w
On 09/23/2015 11:29 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
While there is truth to this, it's also true that people's time is
valuable, and many programmers are not going to want to spend time
learning a language that they're not going to be able to use in the long
run. And even if it can be used in the lo
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 15:47:06 UTC, Chris wrote:
We're up against
a) billions of dollars:
big corporations (cf. Go) and the Java/C++/C# industry that
makes millions selling training courses and books etc.
b) the general inertia and herd behavior of people, and to make
the herd
On 09/23/2015 11:45 AM, John Colvin wrote:
I think you're misinterpreting some of these people. Some will be
following fashions, but many will be simply not wanting to put time and
effort in to something that they're not convinced is going to work out
in the long run.
That amounts to the same
On 09/23/2015 11:47 AM, Chris wrote:
a) billions of dollars:
big corporations (cf. Go) and the Java/C++/C# industry that makes
millions selling training courses and books etc.
b) the general inertia and herd behavior of people, and to make the herd
move you need a)
FWIW, Python hit pretty
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 15:47:06 UTC, Chris wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 12:19:48 UTC, Russel Winder
wrote:
The most important can be paraphrased as "I had heard of D but
as it was getting no traction, I never looked at it again."
Sad but true. Developers want better
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 16:22:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
FWIW, Python hit pretty big success with a different approach:
Appeal to people's innate desire for instant gratification.
Perl and Python gained traction because they replaced multiple
other scripting tools by a single on
On 09/23/2015 01:16 PM, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 16:22:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
FWIW, Python hit pretty big success with a different approach: Appeal
to people's innate desire for instant gratification.
Perl and Python gained traction because they rep
On 09/23/2015 12:22 PM, Joakim wrote:
Most developers are either not interested in choosing their own tools,
or know they're not smart enough to do so.
Perhaps so. Although if they're in either of those boats, then IMO
they're unqualified to be doing it professionally, at least beyond
intern
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 18:33:06 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
C/C++ (and Python) as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately,
marketing it that way isn't so PC anymore ;) But hell, that's
what drew me.
C/C++ for me too, but that was to a large extent due to D1's
simplicity (easy to lear
On 09/23/2015 02:57 PM, Ola Fosheim Grostad wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 18:33:06 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
Except D2's already surpassed D1 :)
That's true, although D1 had a more active library producing community?
Hmm, that's not the impression I get (aside from Tango which
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 19:40:33 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
That's true, although D1 had a more active library producing
community?
Hmm, that's not the impression I get (aside from Tango which
was a pretty large effort).
Yeah, I don't remember that large of a community back in th
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 18:57:21 UTC, Ola Fosheim
Grostad wrote:
Except D2's already surpassed D1 :)
That's true, although D1 had a more active library producing
community?
I think it was way worse than today, because of the Tango/Phobos
split, few people using DSSS, or "bud",
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 16:22:35 UTC, Joakim wrote:
Most developers are either not interested in choosing their own
tools, or know they're not smart enough to do so. Instead,
they rely on the same mechanism as most consumers, social
proof, ie do what everybody else in your field is
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 16:13:37 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
On 09/23/2015 11:45 AM, John Colvin wrote:
I think you're misinterpreting some of these people. Some will
be
following fashions, but many will be simply not wanting to put
time and
effort in to something that they're not
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 16:22:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
[snip[
FWIW, Python hit pretty big success with a different approach:
Appeal to people's innate desire for instant gratification. By
the time they discover the downsides, they're already
knee-deep. (Obviously I'm not sug
On 23-Sep-2015 19:22, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
On 09/23/2015 11:47 AM, Chris wrote:
a) billions of dollars:
big corporations (cf. Go) and the Java/C++/C# industry that makes
millions selling training courses and books etc.
b) the general inertia and herd behavior of people, and to make the he
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 23:00:29 UTC, Laeeth Isharc
wrote:
I don't know if focusing on trying to produce a killer app (not
that I suggest you suggest that) will produce the desired
result, since it's trying to short-cut a process that is
essentially organic. Too large an influx of n
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 23:00:29 UTC, Laeeth Isharc
wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 16:22:35 UTC, Joakim wrote:
To break out to an early majority, D will have to prove
itself, ie the innovators and early adopters have to show
empirically that it is working better for them
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 09:38:16 UTC, Joakim wrote:
On a related note, I feel like Microsoft is really missing the
boat here, especially when reading Manu and Walter on why llvm
doesn't support MS debuginfo:
btw, Walter wrote up a nice article in 2012 laying out all he had
to go thr
On 24-Sep-2015 13:51, Joakim wrote:
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 09:38:16 UTC, Joakim wrote:
On a related note, I feel like Microsoft is really missing the boat
here, especially when reading Manu and Walter on why llvm doesn't
support MS debuginfo:
btw, Walter wrote up a nice article in 2
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 10:51:09 UTC, Joakim wrote:
btw, Walter wrote up a nice article in 2012 laying out all he
had to go through to get dmd working on Win64:
The beauty of Windows though is you don't actually need to do
anything to actually work on the new versions. Your old trick
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 11:25:57 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky
wrote:
On 24-Sep-2015 13:51, Joakim wrote:
No wonder Windows is a dying platform, given what he laid out
there.
Much as I'd like that to be true, the opposite might be the
current situation. See all the new shiny and dead-simple
On 24-Sep-2015 17:22, Joakim wrote:
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 13:04:38 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 10:51:09 UTC, Joakim wrote:
btw, Walter wrote up a nice article in 2012 laying out all he had to
go through to get dmd working on Win64:
The beauty of Win
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 15:35:40 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky
wrote:
For instance, x64 SEH is actually beautiful and supports any
language out of the box. Innovations happens on both (or rather
on all) sides of the fence.
Nobody is denying that there are still innovations happening in
Wind
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 09:48:24 UTC, Chris wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 23:00:29 UTC, Laeeth Isharc
wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 16:22:35 UTC, Joakim wrote:
To break out to an early majority, D will have to prove
itself, ie the innovators and early adopter
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 18:39:34 UTC, Laeeth Isharc
wrote:
On Thursday, 24 September 2015 at 09:48:24 UTC, Chris wrote:
The amount of random criticism that is thrown at D, confirms,
imo, that it is really good, else people wouldn't bother to
attack it so passionately. Only really good
On 24 September 2015 at 01:09, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 09/23/2015 08:19 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>>
>>
>> The most important can be paraphrased as "I had heard of D but as it
>> was getting no traction, I never looked at it again."
>>
>
> While I agree this
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 at 03:34:31 UTC, Manu wrote:
On 24 September 2015 at 01:09, Nick Sabalausky via
Popularity has no place in decision making here.
Sadly, false.
As much as it would be nice to not have decisions based on
popularity, we _do_ want D to be popular regardless, and whi
On 27 September 2015 at 16:45, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On Sunday, 27 September 2015 at 03:34:31 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>
>> On 24 September 2015 at 01:09, Nick Sabalausky via
>>>
>>> Popularity has no place in decision making here.
>>
>>
>> Sadly, false.
>
>
> As much as it would be
On 09/26/2015 11:34 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On 24 September 2015 at 01:09, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
This is engineering, not fucking fashion.
You're familiar with JS, MongoDB, Ruby on rails, etc, etc? Software
engineers are firmly engaged in fashion.
Oh, I definitely know
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 15:09:53 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
This is engineering, not fucking fashion. Popularity has no
place in decision making here. From everything I've seen, 90%
of the problems that exist in computing technology today can be
traced back directly to some jackas
On 09/29/2015 10:51 AM, ponce wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 15:09:53 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
This is engineering, not fucking fashion. Popularity has no place in
decision making here. From everything I've seen, 90% of the problems
that exist in computing technology today can be
On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 at 12:19:48 UTC, Russel Winder
wrote:
Having just done a session at PyConUK 2015 aimed at weaning
people of
pure Python and into polyglot – Python with (C++|D|Chapel)
(there
should have been a Rust bit but…) – and as people probably
heard the D
bit was a bit emba
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