Hi Ali,
Do you believe in a user-centered design process as a benefit to creating
better web interfaces?
It doesn't sound like there's much room for discussion about the topic at
your current company.
Who else shares your view amongst your peers, or even in different
departments?
- Robert
On Mo
Friends, designers, list members,
the heated nit-picking discussion developing after the quite innocent
original post comes slightly as a surprise to me. And a rather
annoying one, that is.
For crying out loud:
We're here to solve problems with/add value to products, services, etc.
In other, mo
h.D.
CEO, Cognetics Corporation
-Original Message-
From: Jared Spool [mailto:jsp...@uie.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:32 AM
To: char...@cognetics.com
Cc: 'Andrei Herasimchuk'; 'IXDA list'
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] We don\'t make consumer products, henc
On Aug 30, 2009, at 7:50 AM, Andrew Boyd wrote:
In agreement, I would like to restate the obvious:
- Good design is good design - be it user centered or otherwise.
- Good designers may or may not use UCD methodologies/techniques/
processes.
- Bad application of any methodology or group thereo
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Jared Spool wrote:
> I don't think this is really as much of a problem as you make it out to be.
>
> A manager, coming to the philosophy of creating designs that delight users
> is good for business, will embrace it no matter what. Managers who shy away
> from that
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Charles B. Kreitzberg <
char...@cognetics.com> wrote:
> . How do you think
> this manager would respond to statements that UCD is crap? I think he would
> say "see even the practitioners don't believe in it."
>
But there's a conflation in that statement
between "
Hi David,
the fetished customer base that tells their friends to buy the IPhone
is part of the marketing process. Its all part of the "weak
ties/Strong ties relationships that Apple takes advantage of.
http://www.si.umich.edu/~rfrost/courses/SI110/readings/In_Out_and_Beyond/Granovetter.pdf
I agree
On Aug 29, 2009, at 11:07 PM, Charles B. Kreitzberg wrote:
So here is my bottom line recommendation:
For those of you who feel UCD as a methodology should give way to more
modern approaches, great. Just stop bashing UCD because others, less
sophisticated than you, will misunderstand and come t
Hello Jared,
there are tons of examples on a UCD approach that went wrong.
A successful UCD approach is where the cross functional team does a
heavy amount of "international" UX research, IA activity and
constant usability tests throughout the development process NOT
neglecting proper marketing. Fo
o: char...@cognetics.com
Cc: 'Andrei Herasimchuk'; 'IXDA list'
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] We don\'t make consumer products, hence no need
for a User Centered Design development process.
On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Charles B. Kreitzberg wrote:
> Andrei:
>
>
On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Charles B. Kreitzberg wrote:
Andrei:
" In my experience, no. In fact, I've yet to find anything that
followed a
UCD process that was what I would consider well designed. Often
because the
people who practice this sort of thing tend to focus far too much on
t
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Jared Spool wrote:
>
> On Aug 27, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Jarod Tang wrote:
>
> I'm afraid this will leads designers' work into a trap, if the designer
>> really assumes the "tech driven is right".
>>
>
> What is that trap?
>
Designer should fight for the empathy with
Joan Vermette wrote:
With my old phone in that instance, I
would have quickly dialed 911 and kept my thumb poised over the "call"
button. The motion involved in that would have been:
Flipping open phone.
Feeling for raised keys on a keypad very like every other phone I've had
since 1978.
Gl
Jordan, Courtney wrote:
People need to make an emergency call in as
little time as possible - as you said, it can make the difference
between living to tell this story and not.
And that emergency call could just as easily be a senior who fell down
the stairs in their home or a cyclist who cras
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Jordan, Courtney wrote:
> But it still holds true that to the user, Joan, it wasn't "immediately
> learnable" given a high-stress, potentially dangerous situation.
-
All this seems so odd to me, maybe cuz I can't relate directly.. If I were
safety conscious
On Aug 27, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Jarod Tang wrote:
I'm afraid this will leads designers' work into a trap, if the
designer really assumes the "tech driven is right".
What is that trap?
But as a tactic, designer could avoid such fruitless discussion
( like, "No, xxx should be user needs/motiv
Not to downplay the seriousness of the situation, but in looking at
your description of the scenario, it seems like the recollection of
"every other phone" compared to the iPhone is a bit misrepresented.
It's kind of like my wife saying how amazing NYC is and only recalling
the best parts o
>
> A manager said last week: "We are a technology driven corporation
>> and that is why we are so successful".
>>
>
> User-centered design is not a panacea, nor is it helpful for every type of
> design problem.
>
> As I've mentioned before, UCD is just one approach to design (
> http://www.ixda.o
On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Kevin Silver wrote:
And you have to have the passcode enabled. You can do this in
settings>general>passcode lock. It took me a few minutes to figure
out what Andrei was talking about. I'm a new iPhone owner as well
and didn't have the passcode screen enabled.
And you have to have the passcode enabled. You can do this in
settings>general>passcode lock. It took me a few minutes to figure out
what Andrei was talking about. I'm a new iPhone owner as well and
didn't have the passcode screen enabled.
On Aug 27, 2009, at 3:16 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk w
On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk wrote:
I'm purposefully did not respond to the situation
"I'm purposefully..."
And one of these years, I'll finally learn how copy edit my own crap
in the same way I've learned how to copy edit tech specs. /sigh.
--
Andrei Herasimchuk
Chief
On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Jordan, Courtney wrote:
Andrei probably isn't one who worries about being stalked on dark
streets, thus his concept of something being easily usable (once one
knows something exists, where to look and is able to find it) isn't
typical of the female user who would p
XDA list
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] We don\'t make consumer products, hence no
need for a User Centered Design development process.
All that said, even now that I'm sitting perfectly safe in my home
office and you've described the appropriate button for me to use, I
still can't
Ali, have you ever thought you're just in the wrong organization? Not
every organization is going to get it and well, as long as their
stockholders (public, private or otherwise) are happy, why would
anyone care?
Jared & my point is to discover problems and try to fix them. forget
about UCD. Rathe
All that said, even now that I'm sitting perfectly safe in my home
office and you've described the appropriate button for me to use, I
still can't find it.
I do recognize that there is a distinction between learnability and
ease of repeat use but they are not entirely separate, are they?
On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Jordan, Courtney wrote:
But it still holds true that to the user, Joan, it wasn't "immediately
learnable" given a high-stress, potentially dangerous situation.
I don't agree that "immediately learnable" equates to hard to use.
I wouldn't expect to see emergency
essage-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Andrei Herasimchuk
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:03 PM
To: IXDA list
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] We don\'t make consumer products, hence no
need for a Us
On Aug 27, 2009, at 10:40 AM, Joan Vermette wrote:
With my iPhone, the motion involved:
Waking up the phone.
Unlocking the phone.
If the iPhone is locked, there is a button on it that says "Emergency
Call" on the keycode screen (bottom left) which bypasses nearly all of
the steps you lis
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:40 PM
To: IXDA list
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] We don\'t make consumer products, hence no
need for a User Centered Design development process.
Yes, I think the iPhone is not easy to use. Here's my example:
I bought my iPhone about a week ago, and a few d
Yes, I think the iPhone is not easy to use. Here's my example:
I bought my iPhone about a week ago, and a few days later I had a
personal safety issue arise. With my old phone in that instance, I
would have quickly dialed 911 and kept my thumb poised over the "call"
button. The motion in
On Aug 27, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Charles B. Kreitzberg wrote:
" In my experience, no. In fact, I've yet to find anything that
followed a
UCD process that was what I would consider well designed. Often
because the
people who practice this sort of thing tend to focus far too much on
the
"user"
Andrei:
" In my experience, no. In fact, I've yet to find anything that followed a
UCD process that was what I would consider well designed. Often because the
people who practice this sort of thing tend to focus far too much on the
"user" part and less on the "design" part."
Two years ago when I
On Aug 27, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Joan Vermette wrote:
Which part of this are you asking about my believing - the "not easy
to use" part or the "we don't care because it's fun" part?
The claim that the iPhone isn't easy to use.
--
Andrei Herasimchuk
Chief Design Officer, Involution Studios
inno
Which part of this are you asking about my believing - the "not easy
to use" part or the "we don't care because it's fun" part?
On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Andrei Herasimchuk wrote:
Plus, what about Fred Beecher's point in his recent Johnny Holland
article (http://johnnyholland.org/maga
On Aug 27, 2009, at 8:03 AM, Joan Vermette wrote:
Asbjørn said "usually." Is "usually" not accurate?
In my experience, no. In fact, I've yet to find anything that followed
a UCD process that was what I would consider well designed. Often
because the people who practice this sort of thing
>
> Asbjørn wrote:
>
> A user-centered design (and development) process is usually a good idea -
>> if
>> you want your application to be usable to it's end users, that is.
>
>
> Andrei wrote:
> It is? Then how do you explain Apple's products?
>
God, it's so easy to mix up "user centered design"
Asbjørn said "usually." Is "usually" not accurate?
How about "many times"? "In a lot of cases, given the right business
context"? (as was the meaning I took from Jared's post...)
Plus, what about Fred Beecher's point in his recent Johnny Holland
article (http://johnnyholland.org/magazine/
On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:53 PM, Asbjørn wrote:
A user-centered design (and development) process is usually a good
idea - if
you want your application to be usable to it's end users, that is.
It is? Then how do you explain Apple's products?
--
Andrei Herasimchuk
Chief Design Officer, Involuti
For those unable to see the replies, I don't know why that's
happening, but note that you can always search for threads via the
ixda.org site.
For example, at http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php, I searched for
"consumer products" and got this:
http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=44980&search=consum
I also can't see the posts in this thread!!
Help us! :-)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=.1010
Welcome to the Interaction Design As
I certainly agree that the customer may not be the (end) user, and that any
(usability) testing should involve end users.
However, if the initiating post's claim that "non-consumer products don't
need user testing" should withstand, the user is not a consumer but rather
an organisation, most often
On Aug 26, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Nasir Barday wrote:
We all understand the problem here, right? I think instead of
expounding on
it to each other, we could help Ali figure out how to change his
manager's
thinking.
I'd like to suggest that maybe we should think twice before deciding
the man
We all understand the problem here, right? I think instead of expounding on
it to each other, we could help Ali figure out how to change his manager's
thinking.
While it's nice for us to formally label what we do, "that thing that makes
stuff cool, elegant, and easy to use," interaction design," l
Why can't I read the replies?? I can see that people have replied bt
when I try to access the post, its empty! Its frustrating...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44980
_
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:59, Ali Naqvi wrote:
> Time and time again I am being told that a user centered design
> development process isn't needed in our company since we do not make
> consumer products.
This is an obvious strawman’s argument (one may call it even simply
bullshit). Apart from ‘u
On Wed, August 26, 2009 08:18, Asbjorn wrote:
"Consumers" don't equal "users".
"Customers" do.
That's not universally true, especially here in the US. Motorola's
customer for mobile phones are the carriers, not the end users. When
Verizon had Motorola disable Bluetooth on the RAZR, it wasn
"Consumers" don't equal "users".
"Customers" do.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44980
Welcome to the Interaction Design Associatio
On Wed, August 26, 2009 08:18, Asbjorn wrote:
> "Consumers" don't equal "users".
> "Customers" do.
Not always: for example, Oracle's customer is an organisation represented
by some manager, who decides to buy that large ERP suite to solve a
business problem, while users are actually just users or
Time and time again I am being told that a user centered design
development process isn't needed in our company since we do not make
consumer products.
Yet we make web interfaces for them to use, we create billions of
features for them to use etc.
A manager said last week: "We are a technology d
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