Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-14 Thread MrSinatra
andynormancx;431382 Wrote: Sure you do and you also appear to have federal regulations on how bicycles should be put together: http://tinyurl.com/koqrfz Handbrakes shall be tested at least ten times by applying a force sufficient to cause the handlever to contact the handlebar, or a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-12 Thread Goodsounds
Many of you have very strong opinions, and yet don't seem (from your comments) to understand these issues very well. andynormancx;431381 Wrote: Am I right in saying that in the US, under the law, that the consumer bears pretty much all of the risk of faulty products (excluding any extra

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-12 Thread toby10
andynormancx;431381 Wrote: Am I right in saying that in the US, under the law, that the consumer bears pretty much all of the risk of faulty products (excluding any extra cover that some manufacturers may choose to give) ? Yup. Sounds harsh compared to the EU consumer warranty /

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-12 Thread andynormancx
Goodsounds;431415 Wrote: Many of you have very strong opinions, and yet don't seem (from your comments) to understand these issues very well. In practice, I would say that this comment is mostly not correct. One can get stung with a problem just after a warranty period ends, but usually

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-12 Thread Goodsounds
andynormancx;431578 Wrote: I didn't ask what happens in practice. I very clear ask who bears the risk under the law in the US. As far as I am aware the retailer and manufacturer has very little responsibilities to replace/repair faulty goods. Am I mistaken ? Your question is really not

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread Gooner
Interesting now - DABS have responded with: Under the sales of goods act, the onus is on the customer to prove that the item is faulty. This called 'reversal of burden of proof'. Under this law, you would need to provide sufficient evidence in terms of an inherent fault report, either from the

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread MrSinatra
the EU is nuts, this is the kind of thing you get when you centralize and socialize gov't and invest power in it rather than individuals. i heard the EU has rules and regs for evey possible thing under the sun. the example that struck me was specs for brake pad thickness or something like that

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread toby10
Gooner;431149 Wrote: Interesting now - DABS have responded with: Under the sales of goods act, the onus is on the customer to prove that the item is faulty. This called 'reversal of burden of proof'. Under this law, you would need to provide sufficient evidence in terms of an inherent

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread Letten
MrSinatra;431160 Wrote: the EU is nuts, this is the kind of thing you get when you centralize and socialize gov't and invest power in it rather than individuals. i heard the EU has rules and regs for evey possible thing under the sun. the example that struck me was specs for brake pad

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread Letten
To my knowledge the EU regulation states a minimum of 2 years to make a claim. An error the first 6 months after delivery is assumed to have been present at the time of delivery unless the seller can prove that it was not the case - so this is like a warranty. After the 6 months the burdon of

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread Pale Blue Ego
If this thread can help you make your case, then here is some data from an owner of 6 SB systems over a period of 7 years. I have a SliMP3, a SB1G, three SB3s, and a Duet system. All of them work flawlessly, and the only problem I ever had was that 2 months after I bought the SB1G, the display

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread iPhone
Gooner;429473 Wrote: My issue here is not that I need to replace this particular SB3 as I already have. It actually failed around the 2 year mark and that means basic cost of ownership was around £100 per annum. I expected it to last longer. Now, the law (which I didn't define) states

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread MrSinatra
Letten;431208 Wrote: Sure they can, but most of this kind of regulation is actually driven by the wish to create the single market (like the US). I havn't heard about breaking pads, but as it is a safety item I wouldn't be surprised if it was true that they need to meet certain

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread bobertuk
Is the EU just becoming a Federal Government? Possibly an equivalent to the USA but with only 24 states so far? The United States of Europe! Hmmm -- bobertuk 1 x Duet - SC 7.3.3 - SSOTS v3.17 Lavry DA-10 DAC QNAP TS-509 3.1.0 b529T Starfish Pre-amp : Based on NAIM Heavily modified NAIM

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread andynormancx
iPhone;431266 Wrote: This does nothing to sort out bad products, all it does is put the person with the consumer's best interest at heart in an unattainable position. Another moronic law! The manufactur should be the one named in this law. That way they bear the cost, can either offer a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread andynormancx
MrSinatra;431299 Wrote: btw, we also ride bicycles. Sure you do and you also appear to have federal regulations on how bicycles should be put together: http://tinyurl.com/koqrfz Handbrakes shall be tested at least ten times by applying a force sufficient to cause the handlever to contact

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread Keymaster
peterw;429300 Wrote: MP3 sampling artifacts pumped straight in the neurons would be so LAME. Maybe I've certifiably lost it...but I thought this was hysterical...like snorting+laughing hystericalLOL Nice one!! -- Keymaster

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread nolesrule
andynormancx;431381 Wrote: And there lays the heart of the problem with making a law to force the manufacturer to cover a long statuary warranty period. How on earth does the consumer get some random manufacturer in China pay up when something fails 6 months after purchase ? In fact for

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-11 Thread Letten
andynormancx;431382 Wrote: Sure you do and you also appear to have federal regulations on how bicycles should be put together: http://tinyurl.com/koqrfz Handbrakes shall be tested at least ten times by applying a force sufficient to cause the handlever to contact the handlebar, or a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread jo-wie
iPhone;429434 Wrote: Europe wants it all. The lowest price and if it fails after the warranty but before I think it should I want a free one. At the most if the law even made a little sense you should only receive fair market value for a 3 year old used SB3. Did I mention it's electronics.

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread htrd
From what I understand about this process, it is not enough to show that many SB3s are still running after 3 years. A retailer has no responsibility to replace a product that has simply reached the end of its life, even if the life of your particular SB3 is shorter than average. You would need to

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread cliveb
seanadams;429442 Wrote: So I hardly see how it's fair that a retailer, who if they're doing well has collected perhaps 20-30% on the whole deal, should be liable for the full value of the product ages after they've sold it. I'm not defending this law, but playing devil's advocate for a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread sebp
jo-wie;429466 Wrote: The point is, in the first 6 month it is supposed that the fault do already exist when the unit was delivered and the reseller has to prove if not. That's easy for the customer. But for the rest of the time the customer has to prove that the fault do already exist during

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread Gooner
My issue here is not that I need to replace this particular SB3 as I already have. It actually failed around the 2 year mark and that means basic cost of ownership was around £100 per annum. I expected it to last longer. Now, the law (which I didn't define) states that the supplier, not

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread andynormancx
seanadams;429442 Wrote: If the UK really wants this kind of coverage built in to every product that is sold there, then people are effectively saying they want to be forcibly charged for an extended warranty with every purchase - because that's the only way that this policy could be

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread bradcook
I bought my original SB2 back in 2005 and it worked flawlessly until Nov last year when it just died one evening. Fortunately it was only the power supply - so a £5 replacement original supply from Patrick at At-tunes got me up and running again. My Duet, Receivers and Boom are less than a year

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread nwplace
andynormancx;429498 Wrote: In the UK you can take a small claims court action just by filling in forms online and paying as little as £25. People rarely do though. Most of the people I do know who have taken an action against a large company won, simply because the company didn't bother to

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread toby10
nwplace;429538 Wrote: You should bear in mind that if the other party does bother to turn and wins the case then you may be liable to some or all of their costs at the discretion of the court. Which is why having such vague terms and ambiguity is just plain silly! :) -- toby10

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread Richie
seanadams;429442 Wrote: So I hardly see how it's fair that a retailer, who if they're doing well has collected perhaps 20-30% on the whole deal, should be liable for the full value of the product ages after they've sold it. They're not liable for the full value. The law is vague but it

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread Peter
andynormancx wrote: toby10;429283 Wrote: Maybe some details on your situation would result in some more insightful responses. I think the SB3's have a 2 yr mfr warranty. I'm guessing DABS is a reseller of SB players? Not sure why they would be involved past a possible 30 day return

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-05 Thread andynormancx
peter;429580 Wrote: andynormancx wrote: toby10;429283 Wrote: Maybe some details on your situation would result in some more insightful responses. I think the SB3's have a 2 yr mfr warranty. I'm guessing DABS is a reseller of SB players? Not sure why they would be involved past

[slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Gooner
Hello everyone. I'm interested in views as to how many years I could expect a Squeezebox to function fault free. If you own one of these, could you let me know how long you've had it and whether it continues to work :) This is in relation to a dispute I'm having with DABS.COM All input

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread stevek1006
My oldest is an original Squeezebox dating back to 2003. It works just fine and has never had a problem. I also have Squeezebox 2 from 2005 and Duet I purchased sometime in 2008. I have had no problems with any of them. -- stevek1006 -Steve -- Steven Kramer

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread amey01
How long is a piece of string? Don't forget, we're talking about a computer product so I certainly wouldn't expect 20++ years like other appliances. My SB3 is three years old and no problems yet. I don't have any reason not to see why it wouldn't double that easily and possibly make 10 years

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Siduhe
I have an SB2 purchased when it was released in 05 which continues to work well and my better half is still running his original SB purchased in 03/04. As already noted, there are people still running the SLIMP3 (first released in 2001) quite happily. SB products do fail (wireless card issues,

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Michael Herger
I'm interested in views as to how many years I could expect a Squeezebox to function fault free. I'm still using my SliMP3 from 2003. -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Gooner
Thanks for your feedback so far. This all sounds positive and helps my case. If anyone else has a squeezebox classic, please let me know how long you've had it and if it continues to function. Thanks Simon -- Gooner

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Keymaster
2 Classics, 2 years old each, and my brother has a pair as well, maybe a year older. No issues at all. Nothing but goodness =). Best of luck! -- Keymaster Keymaster's Profile:

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread agillis
Electronic devices that have no moving parts and generate no (or very little) heat can last almost forever. I have had a classic for 5 years with no problems. -- agillis rip, tag, get cover art… All you do is insert the CD! http://vortexbox.org agillis Lead Developer VortexBox

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Siduhe
Gooner;429235 Wrote: Thanks for your feedback so far. This all sounds positive and helps my case. If anyone else has a squeezebox classic, please let me know how long you've had it and if it continues to function. Thanks Simon Also have 2 Classics (what I would call the SB3). Both

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread sc53
3 Classics, all purchased before the Logitech takeover, all running fine. No display burn in or any other issues. -- sc53 sc53's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8690 View this thread:

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread funkstar
Both my SB3's (now the classic) were bought in early 2006, both going scrong. My SB2, SB and SliMP3 all still work too. -- funkstar my collection: *1*x boom *2*x controller, *1*x receiver *2*x sb3 (sliver/black, *1*x sb2 wired (silver), *1*x sb (black) *1*x slimp3 (with rear shield)

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread jth
I bought all my squeezeboxen shortly after they were released. I've had some problems with the original squeezebox (not Classic) but not with other models. 2 SLIMP3s - no problems since original purchase 3 Squeezebox 1s - 1 VFD display died about 1.5 years after purchase, replacement part

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread cliveb
Gooner;429226 Wrote: If you own one of these, could you let me know how long you've had it and whether it continues to work :) This is in relation to a dispute I'm having with DABS.COM I have an SB2 bought in April 2005 which has never missed a beat. What's the problem you're having with

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread aubuti
Gooner;429235 Wrote: Thanks for your feedback so far. This all sounds positive and helps my case. If anyone else has a squeezebox classic, please let me know how long you've had it and if it continues to function. All my SBs are fine. The only hardware problems I have had have been with

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread toby10
Gooner;429226 Wrote: Hello everyone. I'm interested in views as to how many years I could expect a Squeezebox to function fault free. If you own one of these, could you let me know how long you've had it and whether it continues to work :) This is in relation to a dispute I'm having

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread seanadams
Like most solid state products, Squeezebox products have a bathtub curve reliability characteristic. This means if you're going to have a failure it is most likely to occur out-of-the-box (shipping trauma) or within the first few weeks of ownership (faulty component). After that, it should last

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread peterw
seanadams;429297 Wrote: After that, it should last until the DCI (direct cranial implant) MP3 players become available. MP3? I figured the DCI gear would at least be Red Book PCM quality. MP3 sampling artifacts pumped straight in the neurons would be so LAME. -- peterw

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Pat Farrell
Gooner wrote: I'm interested in views as to how many years I could expect a Squeezebox to function fault free. I've got three SB-1 from ~2003 that work fine. Plus a Duet, Boom, and Transporter. I've never had a failure. I've got 25 or more Slim Years of experience. -- Pat Farrell

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread iPhone
Gooner;429226 Wrote: Hello everyone. I'm interested in views as to how many years I could expect a Squeezebox to function fault free. If you own one of these, could you let me know how long you've had it and whether it continues to work :) This is in relation to a dispute I'm having

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Robin Bowes
Gooner wrote: Hello everyone. I'm interested in views as to how many years I could expect a Squeezebox to function fault free. If you own one of these, could you let me know how long you've had it and whether it continues to work :) This is in relation to a dispute I'm having with

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread andynormancx
toby10;429283 Wrote: Maybe some details on your situation would result in some more insightful responses. I think the SB3's have a 2 yr mfr warranty. I'm guessing DABS is a reseller of SB players? Not sure why they would be involved past a possible 30 day return policy. Looks like you

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Goodsounds
Robin Bowes;429316 Wrote: Simon, As you're talking about dabs.com and your handle is gooner (Arsenal fan?) I am assuming you're in the UK? You might find this interesting: http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html R. Out of curiosity I scanned the

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Gooner
cliveb;429279 Wrote: What's the problem you're having with DABS? I've done a lot of business with them and they always seemed pretty reputable to me. I have had cause to return a couple of items and they never made a fuss. If you've got a SB that's gone faulty within a year, then they are

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread cliveb
Gooner;429326 Wrote: the scenario is that I bought my SB3 in April 2006, it recently died i.e. no activity when plugged into the mains. I since became aware that under uk law, the Sales and Supply of Goods Act 1994 stipulates that the supplier (not manufacturer) is liable to either

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Gooner
Goodsounds;429322 Wrote: Out of curiosity I scanned the linked material - Very interesting. I'm not a retailer, but I don't think a rule like that would work very well in the US. I'd be interested to know more about how it works in the UK. This would seem to really put sellers in a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Gooner
cliveb;429331 Wrote: The problem is that the law is phrased in very vague terms, using next-to-meaningless terms such as reasonable period. Who gets to decide what that is? The way I read it, if something goes wrong after 3 years, it's up to the buyer to prove that it hasn't lasted for a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread nolesrule
Is it just me or does it seem unreasonable for a government to force a retailer to guarantee a product for longer than the manufacturer guarantees it? -- nolesrule nolesrule's Profile:

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Gooner
nolesrule;429347 Wrote: Is it just me or does it seem unreasonable for a government to force a retailer to guarantee a product for longer than the manufacturer guarantees it? For this purpose, no of course I don't!! :) -- Gooner

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Goodsounds
nolesrule;429347 Wrote: Is it just me or does it seem unreasonable for a government to force a retailer to guarantee a product for longer than the manufacturer guarantees it? The law is whatever is enacted. We have a lot of laws that are puzzling to some people too. How about the remnants of

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Peter
Gooner wrote: Hello everyone. I'm interested in views as to how many years I could expect a Squeezebox to function fault free. If you own one of these, could you let me know how long you've had it and whether it continues to work :) This is in relation to a dispute I'm having with

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Siduhe
Goodsounds;429351 Wrote: The law is whatever is enacted. We have a lot of laws that are puzzling to some people too. How about the remnants of prohibition and the blue laws that still exist in the US? Complete nonsense. American civil law tends to be a bit more hands-off and what may be

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread toby10
cliveb;429331 Wrote: The problem is that the law is phrased in very vague terms, using next-to-meaningless terms such as reasonable period. Who gets to decide what that is? The way I read it, if something goes wrong after 3 years, it's up to the buyer to prove that it hasn't lasted for a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread Nonreality
Goodsounds;429322 Wrote: Out of curiosity I scanned the linked material - Very interesting. I'm not a retailer, but I don't think a rule like that would work very well in the US. I'd be interested to know more about how it works in the UK. This would seem to really put sellers in a

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread MrSinatra
i think i got my SB2 in oct 05. so far still works. -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbr (parent's home) - w/sc 7.3.3b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread iPhone
Gooner;429335 Wrote: Totally agree with you except I'd hope it would be reasonably cheap to go to the small claims court without a lawyer... I'll have to look into that. Given that pretty much everyone here, who owns the product, agrees that the unit should last more than 3 years, I have

Re: [slim] Product Longevity

2009-06-04 Thread seanadams
This whole thing makes no sense to me. A sane law might say that the dealer should expected to cover the product during the period where it is likely to fail. But what we're all telling you is that after a year or so it is very UNlikely to fail. So I hardly see how it's fair that a retailer,