Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 8:12 PM Douglas Foster < dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > Protocols are created to solve a problem, and solution design should > include both normal operation and failure management.That’s why > electrical panels use circuit breakers instead of simple

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Douglas Foster
Protocols are created to solve a problem, and solution design should include both normal operation and failure management.That’s why electrical panels use circuit breakers instead of simple on-off switches. In this current case, we are defining an access control system for email, so we have

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 3:32 AM Douglas Foster < dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > There are good reasons for talking about a default DMARC policy. It is > certainly not to give evaluators permission, because we know that > evaluators can do whatever they want, and they will do what

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread John Levine
It appears that Alessandro Vesely said: >On Thu 06/Jan/2022 12:32:17 +0100 Douglas Foster wrote: >> The point of a specification like this is to understand each >> participant's best interest and channel that toward the common goal. >>  I perceive a false assumption that when a sender does

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Scott Kitterman
On January 6, 2022 9:34:44 PM UTC, Douglas Foster wrote: >Please explain what you think is wrong and why. We are not voting yet, we >are discussing. This being the IETF, we aren't voting. Scott K ___ dmarc mailing list dmarc@ietf.org

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Douglas Foster
What is the basis of your conviction that everyone knows how to use SPF and DMARC validation properly? It ceased to be my perception when I tried to buy an email filtering product that implements DMARC. Doug On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 11:07 AM John Levine wrote: > It appears that Murray S.

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Douglas Foster
Please explain what you think is wrong and why. We are not voting yet, we are discussing. On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 11:18 AM Dave Crocker wrote: > On 1/6/2022 3:32 AM, Douglas Foster wrote: > > Consequently, the best way for senders to avoid delayed or blocked > > messages is to avoid getting

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Thu 06/Jan/2022 12:32:17 +0100 Douglas Foster wrote: The point of a specification like this is to understand each participant's best interest and channel that toward the common goal.  I perceive a false assumption that when a sender does not publish p=reject, then his messages cannot be

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Dave Crocker
On 1/6/2022 3:32 AM, Douglas Foster wrote: Consequently, the best way for senders to avoid delayed or blocked messages is to avoid getting close examination.  This is facilitated by ensuring messages are both DKIM-verifiable and SPF-PASS, regardless of DMARC policy.   P=NONE or T=Y or no

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread John Levine
>> Consequently, the best way for senders to avoid delayed or blocked >> messages is to avoid getting close examination. This is facilitated by >> ensuring messages are both DKIM-verifiable and SPF-PASS, regardless of >> DMARC policy. P=NONE or T=Y or no policy are not valid substitutes. ...

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread John Levine
It appears that Murray S. Kucherawy said: >I would argue that it's well understood by now that DKIM and SPF "pass" >results are the only things that convey usable information. I agree. I've never seen anyone have any trouble figuring out what SPF or DKIM inputs to feed into DMARC and don't see

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Todd Herr
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 6:32 AM Douglas Foster < dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > There are good reasons for talking about a default DMARC policy. It is > certainly not to give evaluators permission, because we know that > evaluators can do whatever they want, and they will do what

Re: [dmarc-ietf] 5.7.2.1. DMARC Policy Discovery - How to handle a missing policy

2022-01-06 Thread Douglas Foster
There are good reasons for talking about a default DMARC policy. It is certainly not to give evaluators permission, because we know that evaluators can do whatever they want, and they will do what they deem to be in their best interest. The point of a specification like this is to understand