Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue closed: Use a four-valued token for the four roles of a DMARC policy

2022-08-27 Thread John Levine
This would be a major incompatible change to DMARC, so no. R's, John It appears that Douglas Foster said: >-=-=-=-=-=- > >Alternative token design. > > >Boundary=A (Above only) > >Literal: The domain owner asserts that an organizational/administrative >boundary exists between the current doma

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue opened: Use a four-valued token for the four roles of a DMARC policy

2022-08-27 Thread Seth Blank
Doug, Barry's email sent as Chair was clear and specific: On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 8:33 AM Barry Leiba wrote: > We have come to a point in our discussions of > draft-ietf-dmarc-dmarcbis that the basic content and features of DMARC > are stable and have rough consensus. Coupling that with the > e

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue: Domain Owner policy in Section 5

2022-08-27 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Thursday, August 25, 2022 1:43:49 PM EDT Barry Leiba wrote: > > On Wed 24/Aug/2022 21:40:20 +0200 Barry Leiba wrote: > > > I think “SHOULD do what the domain owner says” is too strong, and > > > propose to change it. By making it that strong we vary from the > > > policy that recipients use all

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mailing List message authentication

2022-08-27 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Friday, August 26, 2022 11:51:51 AM EDT Alessandro Vesely wrote: > On Fri 26/Aug/2022 17:21:09 +0200 Barry Leiba wrote: > > Personally, I'm fine with the text here, but I would also be happy > > with removal of the BCP 14 key words here, like this: > > > > NEW > > If the set produced by the DNS

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue: Domain Owner policy in Section 5

2022-08-27 Thread Barry Leiba
I’m happy with Scott’s suggestion. Barry On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 5:11 PM Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Thursday, August 25, 2022 1:43:49 PM EDT Barry Leiba wrote: > > > On Wed 24/Aug/2022 21:40:20 +0200 Barry Leiba wrote: > > > > I think “SHOULD do what the domain owner says” is too strong, and >

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mailing List message authentication

2022-08-27 Thread Barry Leiba
You really think it needs to be BCP 14 key words, rather than saying in plain English that if there’s no DMARC record we are outside the realm of DMARC? Barry On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 5:15 PM Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Friday, August 26, 2022 11:51:51 AM EDT Alessandro Vesely wrote: > > On Fri

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue opened: Use a four-valued token for the four roles of a DMARC policy

2022-08-27 Thread Barry Leiba
Seth is right here: Doug, your message doesn't comply with what I've asked people to do, in two ways: it's asking for a change to something we already have consensus on and it's not proposing specific text changes. That said, there are two mitigating factors. For the latter, the request is specif

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mailing List message authentication

2022-08-27 Thread Scott Kitterman
I do. Maybe I'm wrong and I've just read far to many crazy ideas preceded by "It doesn't actually say you CAN'T do that". I would strongly prefer we be as direct and blunt about this as possible, even though that's probably insufficient to the task in at least some cases. I know Ale liked you

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue opened: Use a four-valued token for the four roles of a DMARC policy

2022-08-27 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Saturday, August 27, 2022 6:22:34 PM EDT Barry Leiba wrote: > Seth is right here: Doug, your message doesn't comply with what I've > asked people to do, in two ways: it's asking for a change to something > we already have consensus on and it's not proposing specific text > changes. > > That sai

[dmarc-ietf] dmarcbis-16 - some minor corrections

2022-08-27 Thread Neil Anuskiewicz
I'm not sure if minor things like misspellings, grammar, and other minutia are useful. I figured I'd try to contribute in a small way. If these kinds of suggestions are useful, let me know, and I can do more in the future and maybe dive into slightly more. 1. Introduction says: Abusive email oft

Re: [dmarc-ietf] dmarcbis-16 - some minor corrections

2022-08-27 Thread John Levine
Thanks, we can always use more proofreading. I'll put those in the next pull request. It appears that Neil Anuskiewicz said: >-=-=-=-=-=- > > I'm not sure if minor things like misspellings, grammar, and other minutia >are useful. I figured I'd try to contribute in a small way. If these kinds

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue opened: Use a four-valued token for the four roles of a DMARC policy

2022-08-27 Thread John Levine
It appears that Scott Kitterman said: >> - If you disagree with Doug's proposal, please clearly and concisely >> explain why the benefit he is proposing is not useful enough to >> introduce the incompatibility. > >I did read it. I see zero benefit to it. I also looked at it and find extra compl

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Issue opened: Use a four-valued token for the four roles of a DMARC policy

2022-08-27 Thread Barry Leiba
Thanks, Scott and John. Doug, it’s down to you at this point to show a clear benefit, keeping in mind that we’ve already established that the current PSD= tag is needed in only a very small number of domains, limiting the affect on existing implementations to that small number. What are others no

Re: [dmarc-ietf] dmarcbis-16 - some minor corrections

2022-08-27 Thread Neil Anuskiewicz
Cool! I'll proofread the whole document within two weeks unless there's a tighter timeline. I've heard talk on the list about rounding the bend on the last lap to the finish. In addition to proofreading, I'd rewrite for clarity here and there. Then, of course, you could reject any of it. How exac

Re: [dmarc-ietf] dmarcbis-16 - some minor corrections

2022-08-27 Thread John R Levine
If you're feeling really enterprising you can do a github pull request, but sending the suggested changes to this list is fine. On Sat, 27 Aug 2022, Neil Anuskiewicz wrote: Cool! I'll proofread the whole document within two weeks unless there's a tighter timeline. I've heard talk on the list a