nion piece to the Electric Knife; it didn’t do anything but looked good, cord and all, alongside the Electric Knife.) :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PEPrincipal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs ConsultantPO Box 23427Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 p.perk...@ieee.org From: Mike Sherm
? Is this “in addition to” the product family standard, which may only prescribe RI to 3GHz?
Thank you,
Chet Summers
From: Mike Sherman - Original Message - [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 9:20 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RED ZigBee 6
We buy a radio device that currently declared to be in conformance with EN
301-489-7:2005, among other standards.
However, when I look at the ETSI site that documents progress on updating
standards for the RED requirements, I'm not finding EN 301-489-7:2005.
Does anyone know whether:
-the
Esteemed colleagues:
I've got what I'm told is a fully RED compliant ZigBee module that goes into
equipment that I'm told now must be immunity tested to 6 GHz the RED (the chip
reportedly already passes). Connections to my equipment are data and power. We
have no experience immunity testing
Esteemed colleagues:
I'm trying to map the boundaries of "radio equipment" under RED by examples. Do
you agree with the following two examples?
EXAMPLE 1: USB Dongle
I use a USB dongle to add WiFi to an old laptop. The dongle is the radio
equipment, but the laptop was not and does not become
Esteemed colleagues:
1. Can anyone share the March 25, 2017 draft?
2. A REDCA notice stated that comments on the draft were being accepted through
April 14. Does anyone know of a final publish/release date?
thanks,
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
-
Thank goodness for DIN rails! Had to drill and tap 2-4 holes per component into the panel before DIN rails, and it took forever. The Panduit grey wire duct seemed to be a natural companion to DIN rails. A well assembled box from a 508A panel shop is indeed a thing of beauty and a credit to the
Esteemed colleagues --Do you know of a way to gain access to the draft ETSI EN standards for the Radio Equipment Directive without paying 6000 euros to join ETSI?ThanksMike Sherman Graco Inc. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
-
Seems to me that IR does not communicate in the radio frequency range, but BT
and RF do, so I would say IR is out of RED scope but BT and RF are within
scope.
What opinions do others have?
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Xe"
To:
Another thing: these are typically "shunt trip" products, which leads to periodic testing to verify that they are still functional. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Vincent LeeTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: February 15, 2017 at 8:49 PMSubject: [PSES]
In North America, UL 943 covers GFCIs, which trip somewhere in the 4-6 mA range. UL 1053 covers GFEPs, which are not for personnel protection and can have much higher trip settings. Mike ShermanGraco Inc. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Vincent LeeTo:
Bill --
This "in the same enclosure" interpretation sounds new and drastic to me. Do
you have any official document/link on this interpretation?
thanks
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: "Bill Stumpf"
To: "EMC-PSTC"
my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my
employer or the European Commission.
From: Mike Sherman - Original Message - [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 8:17 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RED and "putting on the mark
It is my understanding that products that are not RED compliant but are RTTE
compliant can be "put on the market" through June 12, 2017.
For the purpose of products manufactured outside of the EU, is "put on the
market" equivalent to being physically brought into the EU?
I'm asking this
Vibrator?
Is EMC even applicable? Are there high frequency clocks in it?
-Dave
From: Mike Sherman - Original Message - [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 2:11 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EMC Harmonized Standard for Construction
I'm trying to determine the correct EN EMC standards for an electrical vibrator
used in construction. 230V cord and plug connected, portable.
I'm thinking generic light industrial, EN 61000-6-1 + EN 61000-3.
Any thoughts from this august group on more specific, or different, standards?
Because of the lack of polarization on many 2 pin European plugs, I have always
recommended double pole mains switches on cord connected products for the EU
market. However, I am not finding support for this in standards such as
60335-1, 60601-1 or 62368-1.
Your thoughts will be appreciated,
Both 2002/96/EC WEEE and 2012/19/EU WEEE require that the "crossed-out wheeled
bin" (COWB) be marked on the EEE.
EN 50419:2005 introduced the requirement to indicate when the product was put
on the market, and allows two options:
-a date code
or
-the solid bar underneath the COWB.
I have knob and tube left on, I think, one circuit in my 99 year old house.
It's on my list to be replaced soon. It has some impressive soldered splices,
but charm has its limits. I agree that it's a bear to unearth and replace.
My experience with the insulation is that it is now brittle.
Title: Re: [PSES] EN 302 195 Distance Conversion Factor
Note that for the RoHS July 2019 items that come into scope, products in distribution in the EU but not yet sold become illegal to sell. This provision created a lot of discussion but no regulatory relief a couple of years ago. Sent from
Title: Re: [PSES] EN 302 195 Distance Conversion Factor
Last time I had this question, the current Blue Guide gave me a pretty definitive answer. Mike ShermanGraco Inc. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Brian KundeTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: December
Start with 62133, but understand that it takes far more than this for a safe battery/charger system. The technology is moving faster than the standards.Mike ShermanGraco Inc. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Stephen WhalenTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent:
Application sounds like "lock out tag out. " Might offer another way to think about useful symbols (e.g., padlock). Mike ShermanGraco Inc. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Scott AldousTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: October 11, 2016 at 10:30 AMSubject:
Be aware that the EU has some energy efficiency requirements for 3 phase motors. Motors designed for 60 hertz may well have more difficulty meeting these requirements. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Brian KundeTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: September
At Graco Inc. (manufacturer of industrial pumps and sprayers, not the other,
baby products Graco) we're looking for a 4th engineer in our product safety and
compliance group. Perky HR blurb and job description link are below; contact me
directly for pertinent details beyond the on-line
Pete --
Thanks for the suggestion. I looked on the NFPA.org website at the NFPA 70
draft dated 4-8-2016 and there is a new section 422.6:
"422.6 Listing Required
All appliances operating at 50 volts or more shall be listed."
The definition for "Listed" in article 100 of NFPA 70 is
NEC is specifically NFPA 70, otherwise known as the National Electrical Code. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Brian O'ConnellTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: July 25, 2016 at 7:26 PMSubject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US
By 'NEC", will assume
Rich --
Don't know quite where you're going with this. I can't think of any software
that can operate without hardware.
But you can have a software failure even if one's hardware sensors are
operating correctly. Think of an algorithm monitoring a pressure vessel for a
thermal runaway. I
EPO in my experience is used to remove power from an area, say a room. EMO in my experience is used in the semiconductor manufacturing business to bring everything to a safe condition. I have not seen it used outside the semi industry. It is defined in the SEMI S2 safety standard. I can provide a
fees to the Listing Agency to use something else – from bitter personal experience with equipment which was “dropped on me”, that is NOT a good idea!) John E AllenW.London, UK From: Mike Sherman - Original Message - [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net] Sent: 23 June 2016 16:54To: EMC-PSTC
Also be aware that there is a minimum wire gage size for the incoming mains wire inside the equipment. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Brian KundeTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: June 23, 2016 at 8:49 AMSubject: Re: [PSES] insulated wiresTry the US
Regarding "avoidabiility":
1. I used it typically for mechanical/kinetic hazards, such as being hit by a
robot, where human reflex times were relevant. I did not use it for most other
risk assessments (e.g., shock, explosion).
2. I gave it a scale of 0 to 1, then subtracted it from 1: risk
The new EMC Directive refers briefly to the option of applying "other relevant
technical standards" in place of harmonized standards.
I'm looking at some electrical construction equipment whose use might be best
described as some combination of light and heavy industrial.
Does anyone have
I've always thought the Canada requirement was 40 amps for 2 minutes. Mike ShermanGraco Inc. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Richard NuteTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: March 3, 2016 at 1:37 PMSubject: Re: [PSES] Insulation testing Hi Ralph: It seems
: Re: [PSES] Australia/New Zealands mains voltageHi Mike,Testing at 240V is understandable. Should the product be marked as 230 V in order to meet the nominal mains voltage for Australia and avoid any challenge from regulators.Regards,ScottOn 4 Aug, 2015, at 1:33 am, Mike Sherman - Original
Typical Australian national deviations to IEC end product standards require you to test as if your product is marked for 240V, even if it is marked, say, 230V. An Australian regulator with whom I spoke a couple of years ago stated that he had 252V measured at his office receptacle.Mike
Does anyone know of an off the shelf product that could be plugged between the product and the GFCI that would reduce the nuisance trips? Might give Brian some relief as he redesigns his product. Mike ShermanSent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Ted EckertTo:
61029 might also be worth a look. TC 116 is also working on a similar 62841 series. MikeSent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Ted EckertTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: June 5, 2015 at 3:46 PMSubject: Re: [PSES] CE marking for handheld powered tools
Hello
Our one-page DoC is sparse on text, but contains all EU languages. Gets a little crowded, but it's our understanding of the regulatory requirements. Mike ShermanGraco zinc. Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Brian KundeTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: May
The Customs Union EAC mark, which came into effect two days ago, requires that
references to life time and storage time be placed in the manual.
Does anyone know of any guidance or examples of what is considered to be
sufficient?
thanks
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
) certifications or accreditations, as far as both
the activities and geographical locations covered by the certifications and
product use applications are concerned.
another Brian
-- Original Message --
From: Mike Sherman - Original Message - msherma...@comcast.net
Brian --
I would think a model number might suffice as designation of the machinery.
In my way of thinking, there has to be something that ties the nameplate to the
DoC; we use the model number, not a functional description---have never run
into that interpretation before.
Although the
Does anyone know whether this updated standard includes requirements for
reduced spacings at high altitudes and more rigorous humidity testing, as we've
seen in other recent Chinese standards?
thanks,
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Graco Inc.
-
Re ... and dismissal of identifiable risks deemed conveniently unlikely to
occur.
This is a real issue in organizations, and was a key contributor to the
Columbia space shuttle disaster.
NASA's Columbia Accident Investigation Board's final report explores this
contributor a lot. The report
Re use the signal words for other purposes than potential injury:
1. Windows 95, I think it was, broadly corrupted the exclamation point/triangle
hazard symbol by placing it in their pop up system error boxes. I'm glad to see
that this is no longer practiced.
2. I once had a discussion at a
Exclamation point (in a triangle) is explicitly associated with a personal
injury hazard. Its use with a NOTICE, which is explicitly not a personal injury
hazard, is not in accordance with the ANSI or ISO standards.
In my experience, UL standards are often not in synch with these latest ISO
Are there alternate medical equipment EMC standards (i.e., 60601-x series) that
would give you more leeway?
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
- Original Message -
From: Niels Hougaard n...@bolls.dk
To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent:
Dave --
ANSI Z535.4 is the standard for warning labels for equipment. Clarion, and
likely other vendors, have samples on their web page.
Mike
- Original Message -
From: Dave Nyffenegger dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com
To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, December
There is no legal penalty for over warning for Cal Prop 65, so you should be fine. Mike Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Doug PowellTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: December 10, 2014 at 6:21 PMSubject: [PSES] Prop 65 Labeling All,I have what might be
Italy still gets quakes on a regular basis.
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: Lauren Crane lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com
To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:58:07 PM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Seismic requirements- Euro Machinery
Note that the ISO country codes are also available on the ISO Online Browsing
Platform:
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#home .
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: Dan Roman, N.C.E. danp...@verizon.net
To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Friday, November 14,
Ditto --
I would stick with the NRTL 61010-1. You can't list to NFPA 79, and field
labeling this sort of equipment to NFPA 79 simply invites some real but
irrelevant nonconformances that will prevent your machine from being used until
you retrofit it (experience speaking here). NFPA 70, by
Good summary of what I know is here:
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ff7bd38f-0f81-4e5f-94c7-a16d3d05368d
- Original Message -
From: Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com
To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 11:27:33 AM
Subject: [PSES] Made in
John --
Precisely what you describe is already a registered ISO symbol.
If you go to the only ISO browsing platform
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#home
then click on Graphical symbols
then type in factory
you'll see symbol # 6049.
Now all we have to do is get people to start using this???
Gary --
The basis of the law is that one should not expose citizens of California to
any of these chemicals known to the State of... without first warning them.
No requirement to remove them. Appears to be a name and shame approach that
has had some success in companies removing some
Gert --
Look on the Estonian web site for the multi-user license option. It does use
FileOpen software. The multi-user license specifically allows a network
installation.
I recommend that you buy one of the less expensive standards with a multi-user
license and test it on your system to
The latter makes more sense to me. I see a critical purpose of the nameplate as
providing the instructions to the electrician regarding how to properly bring
and protect the mains supply to the machine. I don't want any confusion in this
matter.
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
- Original
We are benchmarking how other manufacturers structure their internal reporting
relationships.
Our Product Safety and Compliance group currently reports up through a
divisional Engineering manager.
To whom does your Product Safety and Compliance group report?
Corporate Legal?
Corporate
too good to be true, then it IS too good
to be true. I'd be interested to know if/what the catch is here. Otherwise, I
might just go into the standards brokering business! ;-)
Thanks,
Tony
- Original Message -
From: Mike Sherman - Original Message -
Sent
This is a conundrum that regularly leads to different labels for different
markets. An approach that uses pictograms and symbols only that might well be
acceptable in the EU might well be judged to be legally insufficient for the
USA market because it lacks warning text. Then once you put text
I'm exploring CCC marking a product for China. I've been told that unless the
product passes certain tests, it has to be marked as not for use: above 2000 m;
or in tropical regions.
I'm assuming that the 2000 m issue is related to clearances, and the tropics to
some sort of additional humidity
Not aware of any price breaks through IEEE. Best pricing I've found is through
Estonia:
http://www.evs.ee/shop
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: Dave Nyffenegger dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:51:53 AM
Based on a year of spot XRF testing hardware procured from a supplier with a
pretty good RoHS program in place:
1. Zinc with clear chromate is low risk.
2. Yellow chromate traditionally is hexavalent chromium and therefore verboten
under RoHS.
3. Black chromate may or may not be RoHS
Jim --
Yes, but surprises do happen. I once had some very expensive equipment in a top
notch clean room that got thoroughly soaked when a pipe above the ceiling
burst. Very expensive clean up.
A guide to IP codes that I've found useful is:
Gary --
C-tick is going away, being replaced by RCM. You can no longer obtain the N
manufacturer ID number required to be used with the C-tick mark. RCM
registration is on-line. RCM now also covers electrical safety, as well as EMC.
The EMC stuff can be self-declare, depending upon
Charlie --
I am not aware that Australia might be enforcing ACMA requirements at
customs---that would be news to me.
I've gotten excellent (same day) responses from ACMA by posting questions via
the link on their website.
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Can any of you recommend an appropriate IEC standard for a 230V, 16A cord
extension set that incorporates an in-line surge suppressor?
I'm interested primarily in standards for the surge suppressor, not the cord,
plug, or extension socket.
Thanks!
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and
Can anyone:
-confirm that wire nuts are not allowed in induction motor junction boxes in
the EU?
-provide reasons why?
-suggest solutions other than permanently mounted terminal strips?
I'm not finding this in IEC 60204-1, but it seems to be a common practice that
IEC motors have
My vague recollection is that specialized crimped lug requirements in the
semiconductor equipment industry originated in Japan and were copied by some
large players in Korea. The designation origins may therefore be Japanese.
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Graco
Mark --
This is indeed puzzling.
The EHSRs are all in Annex I of the Machinery Safety Directive (MSD). When you
do a DoC, you are typically implicitly and explicitly declaring compliance
with all relevant EHSRs. Annex II of the MSD has the requirements for DoC and
DoI.
However,
There was a successful lawsuit against ASME years ago over conflict of interest
, and this lawsuit affected how standards creation bodies have operated ever
since (Google Hydrolevel vs. ASME---I think this is the case).
Beyond that, I'm hoping the courts would recognize that a successful
I've gotten excellent response service from authorities from inquiries
posted through the ACMA web site.
- Original Message -
From: Anders Svensson B anders.b.svens...@ericsson.com
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 2:29:23 AM
Subject: [PSES] Australia
If you think of non-permanently connected equipment as cord-and-plug
connected equipment, it is not uncommon for cord-and-plug connected equipment
to rely upon the facility mains overcurrent protection (i.e., a circuit breaker
in a distribution panel).
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and
Esteemed colleagues --
I'm looking for a test lab that is approved to run AS/NZS 3112 power plug tests
in order to obtain a certificate for our design from Australian authorities.
Can you recommend one, or are you one? Please reply privately.
Thanks!
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
RoHS 2, 2011/65/EU, became effective 3 Jan uary 2013 as a CE marking directive.
Different scope extensions become effective through 2019. More substances are
under consideration for restriction; some reports on this are due in the summer
of 2014, as I recall.
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
With that short a conductor length, you might get some significant conductive
cooling axially through the copper.
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: IBM Ken ibm...@gmail.com
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent:
Lauren --
A similar thread is currently running on LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/CISPR-22-24-compliance-update-2278131.S.269600494?view=gid=2278131type=memberitem=269600494trk=eml-anet_dig-b_nd-pst_ttle-cn
Here is my comment on that thread, but I look forward to the
Does anyone know of a chart or table or white paper that lists the differences
between various versions of EN EMC standards?
Specific example: what changed between 2006 and 2001 versions of EN 6000-6-2?
thanks,
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Graco Inc.
-
Perhaps the EU is not ready to recycle under WEEE all the products that will
fall into RoHS Category 11, such as small gasoline/petrol engines. Category 11
is pretty broad.
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: Scott Xe
All NFPA standards are freely viewable at www.nfpa.org .
Creating standards costs money.
Darned interesting legal theory, and another example of the disruptive nature
of the Internet.
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
Note that the committees for ANSI Z535.4 and ISO 3864 have done a lot of work
over the last 15 years to allow a single, combined format to be used in both
the USA and the rest of the world.
Mike Sherman
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
We use Z535.4 for all of our warnings labels that are used in USA and Canada,
and I know of no problems that we've ever had with them.
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
- Original Message -
From: Michael Loerzer loerzer_mob...@globalnorm.de
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent:
Ground/earth continuity is extremely important for electrical medical
equipment, at least in part because sedated or comatose patients can lack a
let-go reflex. Clear plugs presumably allow users to periodically visually
check the robustness of the conductor/pin connection.
Mike Sherman
Power plugs for Australian/New Zealand cord-connected equipment must comply
with AS/NZS 3112.
QUESTION: does the approval number (e.g., V100063) need to be molded onto or
otherwise marked on the plug? This is not required by clause 2.12.1 in my old,
2000 copy of AZ/NZS 3112, but it looks
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