Re: Electronic products operating below 50 Vac/75 Vdc

2005-03-15 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Raymond, The answer depends on the type of products you supply. If you could be more specific the replies you receive would be more focused. Richard Hughes In a message dated 15/03/2005 17:55:59 GMT Standard Time, raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk writes: The scope of LVD directive include

Re: Abolishing LVD Lower Limits

2004-09-20 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, As Kaz pointed out by his web link, the document has now reached revision 5. However, the proposals were developed in a small(ish) working group where not all Member States were present. Also, many comments by those who participated in the development of this document were not resolved in

Re: Abolishing LVD Lower Limits

2004-09-20 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, Discussions on the revision of the LVD seem to have been given a lower priority over the last year and, as a sign of this, the consultation promised for March/April of this year still hasn't happened. In the mean time the European Commission is all-change, with new Commissioners identifie

RE: Need Help With EN 55013

2004-08-12 Thread richhug...@aol.com
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ Folks, First let me say that I do not intend to enter into the technical debate or the personal remarks on this subject. I do however find it strange that the original Email and John's reply to it never made it through to me

Re: How do I do this test?

2003-12-01 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Vic, As always, the Devil's in the detail... You are correct in thinking that the requirement is Basic Insulation from a primary circuit and protective earth. However, in this case the 'earthed part' must meet all the requirements of clause 2.6 (if the base standard is taken to be IEC 60950-1).

Re: CEN standard scopes/abstracts

2003-11-24 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Time, peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes: Richard - It has to start somewhere. Saying nothing returns the same. Peter From: richhug...@aol.com Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:42 AM Peter, The emc-pstc list is a good place to exchange ideas between engineers but not a good forum for

Re: CEN standard scopes/abstracts

2003-11-24 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, The emc-pstc list is a good place to exchange ideas between engineers but not a good forum for actioning change. However, many of the subscribers of this forum (whether contributors or not) are also members of trade associations. Any effective trade association should have links to their

Re: CEN standard scopes/abstracts

2003-11-23 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, I do not have the URL of a website that can answer your questions but is hidden from the likes of Google, which I guess you've tried anyway. Perhaps others can oblige here. As I guess you know, some CEN standards are derived from ISO standards and if you can find this out then at least yo

Re: Legal Precedents

2003-11-18 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Ed, In England and Wales there is a subscription-based on-line, searchable, database that gives the legal profession access to the results of cases heard in the higher courts. It therefore seems likely that such a system exists for the USA too (or perhaps at the individual State level?). If you

Re: IEC and EN standard relationships

2003-11-18 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, I did not have the intention of singling you out, only of finishing our thread. It has disappointed me that, seemingly, the great majority of information flow on this thread has been due to individuals in Europe explaining how CENELEC standards relate to IEC standards but not how standards

Re: IEC and EN standard relationships

2003-11-17 Thread richhug...@aol.com
;B'. Regards, Richard Hughes In a message dated 15/11/2003 09:23:08 GMT Standard Time, j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk writes: I read in !emc-pstc that richhug...@aol.com wrote (in <1e4.13640b3e.2ce6 b...@aol.com>) about 'IEC and EN standard relationships' on Fri, 14 Nov 2003: > The

Re: IEC and EN standard relationships

2003-11-14 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, There are not always technical deviations between IEC and EN standards, for instances there are no differences in the body of the standard between the latest versions of IEC 60825-1 and EN 60825-1. Of course, CENELEC standards have a Date of Withdrawal of conflicting standards which IEC sta

Re: IEC and EN standard relationships

2003-11-14 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Stuart, Technically, BS EN 60xxx is the same as NF 60xxx with the exception that the BS version is in English and the NF version is in French. All language variants of an EN contain all national differences and Common Modifications. If you look at the listing of standards in the OJEC you will

Re: opinions, please

2003-11-11 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Doug, Guidelines, whether relating to the LVD, EMC Directive or whatever do not have the same 'weight of law' as the requirements of the directives themselves. Strictly speaking, Directives are not themselves law. They are first and foremost instructions to individual Member States (think count

Re: More CE mark issues...

2003-11-11 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Dave, Firstly you need to decide what EU directives apply. This may sound a little obvious, but the LVD (for example) excludes equipment from its scope if these are covered by other regulatory provisions. Such considerations could apply to your military and aerospace products. The same would als

Re: LVD voltage limits

2003-11-06 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, Others have provided the URL to download the latest draft of the LVD, as discussed during a Commission meeting in late October. The next iteration of draft text is not yet available. Still under discussion is the process of how to cover low risk products (e.g. battery powered watches, musi

Re: electrochemical potentials

2003-10-14 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, I understand that the origins were a US MIL spec. Although I have not checked, I seem to recall that pretty much the same information was also contained in IEC 380. We are therefore going way, way, back in the annals of time. Have you tried looking up the electro-potentials in a book of

Re: fan question

2003-09-22 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Jim, You have answered your own point. It doesn't matter if you raise the bar by one notch or ten, at the end of the day you are still talking about liability REDUCTION when it comes to meeting product safety standards. As you say, "shxx happens". Agreed, and this is one reason why reputable ma

Re: fuse replacement markings

2003-09-04 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, I think that you and I have gone through the merits and demerits of the way IEC 60950 and IEC 60065 cover fuse markings already in this forum, let's not go over old ground again. Richard

Re: Multiple postings re fuse replacement markings

2003-08-28 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Folks, Apologies for bombarding you with the same Email. This was because AOL sent me a message that my message couldn't be sent and so I re-tried. If its any consolation, that means I got extra helpings of "so-and-so is out of the office" messages. Richard Hughes

Re: fuse replacement markings

2003-08-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, Regarding your comment: "Aren't you trying to conform to IEC 60950? If so, the code that I posted is what is required. I am surprised that clause 1.7.6 is so vague, when the corresponding clause in IEC 60065 is very explicit that the code specified in IEC 60127 shall be used" There are ple

Re: fuse replacement markings

2003-08-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, Regarding your comment: "Aren't you trying to conform to IEC 60950? If so, the code that I posted is what is required. I am surprised that clause 1.7.6 is so vague, when the corresponding clause in IEC 60065 is very explicit that the code specified in IEC 60127 shall be used" There are ple

Re: fuse replacement markings

2003-08-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, Regarding your comment: "Aren't you trying to conform to IEC 60950? If so, the code that I posted is what is required. I am surprised that clause 1.7.6 is so vague, when the corresponding clause in IEC 60065 is very explicit that the code specified in IEC 60127 shall be used" There are ple

Re: fuse replacement markings

2003-08-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, Regarding your comment: "Aren't you trying to conform to IEC 60950? If so, the code that I posted is what is required. I am surprised that clause 1.7.6 is so vague, when the corresponding clause in IEC 60065 is very explicit that the code specified in IEC 60127 shall be used" There are ple

Re: fuse replacement markings

2003-08-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, I cannot answer for the committee of test laborarories, but I have been a member of the committees involved with writing IEC 60950-1 and its predecessors for many years and so I can at least provide my perspective on what the intended requirements are. For me, the question is clearly ans

Re: Software and Safety

2003-08-21 Thread richhug...@aol.com
In a message dated 22/08/2003 00:05:42 GMT Standard Time, pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com writes: Dear All, Many of today's equipment utilizes software which is also relied for safety. This is true in Machinery, NEBS, Alarm Systems, Medical Systems and CPU cooling in many computers, etc. I am inter

Re: IR LED

2003-08-11 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Bob, Firstly you are confusing regulations (R&TTED) and standards. The 'radio' part of the R&TTED would not apply. You do not say what IR link is for, but it seems unlikely that your equipment would be Terminal Equipment either - in which case the R&TTED would not apply. If the equipment is ma

Re: Who sign the DoC?

2003-08-08 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, You said: For the EMC Directive (and the LVD), there IS a clear answer. The manufacturer must sign, irrespective of where he is based. The authorities realised that no-one but the manufacturer would be in a position to know whether *production units* met the same requirements as the test sam

Re: Who sign the DoC?

2003-08-07 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Charlie, Perhaps you have not received a sufficiently clear answer because you have not bounded your question sufficiently tightly? Many people talk about declarations of conformity as though the only reason to create one is to satisfy the requirements of some directive or other, but DoCs can be

Re: X and Y caps

2003-08-06 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, As lots of people have already said, and as is described in IEC 60384-14, Y caps are placed where there is a risk of electric shock were the capacitor to fail short-circuit. If we consider a 230V ac mains supply with 2.5 kV transient voltages on it (i.e. Installation Category II per IEC 606

Re: Last day of manufacture EN60950: A4, A11

2003-07-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Ilan, The "date of cessation" as given in the Official Journal of the European Communities is not the last date for modifications but the last date on which a statement of compliance to a particular version of a standard offers a presumption of compliance with the safety objectives of the LVD (and

Re: FCC's inquiry for broadband over the powerlines (BPL)

2003-07-18 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Hi, Those interested in knowing what the UK requirements are should take a look at the January 2003 edition of MPT 1570 "Radiation Limits and Measurement Specification - Electromagnetic radiation in the range 9 kHz to 1.6 MHz from material substances forming part of a telecommunication system". T

Re: Modems and CE

2003-07-10 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Dave, Further to Alex's reply, you should decide for yourself what level of documentation is required from the modem supplier (and the power supply provider for that matter). >From what you say, you will be incorporating these sub-assemblies into a product of your design. Presumably, that produc

Re: EU Language Requirements

2003-07-08 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Bob, Compliance with translation requirements for safety is a regulatory requirement in many countries within the EU, but you are presumably not talking safety for your software interface? This means that primarily you are concerned with supplying a product that carries out a particular function

Re: CE for components?

2003-06-30 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Hi, You will not, I suspect, find a universal answer applicable to all Directives that call for CE marking. A number of people in the past have identified where it is possible to download copies of the Commission's guides to such Directives as the LVD and the EMCD and you should certainly refer t

re: CE without LVD?

2003-06-30 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, Ah! but there is such a thing as information overload! Richard From: john.al...@era.co.uk [mailto:john.al...@era.co.uk] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:20 PM To: richhug...@aol.com; nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: CE without LVD? Richard

Re: CE without LVD?

2003-06-30 Thread richhug...@aol.com
John, If proof were needed that one branch of the Commission doesn't know what the other branch is doing then [COM(2003) 252 Final, of 12 May 2003] is it. All I can say is that many times now I have sat in rooms in Brussels with the European Commission; the DTI and their counterparts in other Mem

re: The transformer screen/shield conundrum

2003-06-29 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Rich, RN> I'm surprised that, today, a SMPS would used screen/ shield construction. [R_Hughes >] Not all power supplies are switch mode, even today. I bet that the HiFi addicts who say that they can hear the difference between a valve amp and a transistor amp would absolutely hate the idea o

Re: Scope of the LVD

2003-06-28 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Ron, I found a more up to date URL for what's happening to the LVD which seems to be open to all (it didn't ask me for a password). It can be found by following: http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/lv/direct/review.htm By looking at LVD.3 you will be able to see that not only

re: CE without LVD?

2003-06-28 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Nick, Agreed it is not yet a done deal and the UK does have one or two other Member States on its side. However, unless significantly more Member States (and certain parts of industry I may add) come over to the UK way of looking at things, then it seems highly likely that the output document f

re: The transformer screen/shield conundrum

2003-06-28 Thread richhug...@aol.com
th in our morning so we just had to make do with arguing with one another! Glad to see you've joined the fray! Richard From: ri...@sdd.hp.com [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 5:43 AM To: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk; richhug...@aol.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Su

re: Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies

2003-06-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
.@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies I read in !emc-pstc that richhug...@aol.com wrote (in <44E75E95.7A170092 0ba45...@aol.com>) about 'Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies' on Thu, 26 Jun 2003: >[R_Hughes >] Technicall

re: Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies

2003-06-27 Thread richhug...@aol.com
.@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies I read in !emc-pstc that richhug...@aol.com wrote (in <44E75E95.7A170092 0ba45...@aol.com>) about 'Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies' on Thu, 26 Jun 2003: >[R_Hughes >] Technicall

re: Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies

2003-06-26 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Group, Please see my comments below... Richard Hughes From: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:24 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies I read in !emc-pstc that Alexandru Guidea

re: Dielectric withstand voltage for power supplies

2003-06-26 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, Most people want the output to meet the requirements for an SELV Circuit. Probably the transformers and opto-couplers (if any, in the feedback loop) within the power supply will meet the requirement for Reinforced Insulation and this implies an ability to withstand 3,000 Vac. However, ma

re: 60950-1 temperatures

2003-06-02 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Brian, I think that my Email of 30/4/2003 should answer your questions. In regard to your second substantive para, you will see that it is not always required to test at the highest ambient temperature. An extract is below... Richard Hughes Are you REQUIRED to conduct heating tests at

re: Bad Fuse vs. Good Fuse

2003-05-26 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Doug, Linguistically, how can an inanimate object such as a fuse be "good" or "bad"? Can it also be "angelic" or "evil"? I may be able to train a dog by telling it that it is a "good boy" when it does what I want it to do (plus offer a suitable reward, of course) or prevent it from not doin

re: Bad Fuse vs. Good Fuse

2003-05-26 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Doug, Linguistically, how can an inanimate object such as a fuse be "good" or "bad"? Can it also be "angelic" or "evil"? I may be able to train a dog by telling it that it is a "good boy" when it does what I want it to do (plus offer a suitable reward, of course) or prevent it from not doin

re: Safety testing after equipment repair

2003-05-26 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Rich, Your colleague may be correct in his theory, but the only 'real-life' example I am aware of relates to deterioration of a connector containing EMI suppression capacitors. The capacitors were hi-pot tested as components, were tested again as part of the connector by a second manufacturer,

re: UK in-service continuing compliance testing (was: RE: Safety testing after equipment repair)

2003-05-25 Thread richhug...@aol.com
From: peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 6:00 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: UK in-service continuing compliance testing (was: RE: Safety testing after equipment repair) All - As a matter of curiosity, are there any rec

re: Safety testing after equipment repair

2003-05-22 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Rich, Gregg, Gregg, your memory is slipping - clearly you have been away from the UK for too long, or you're enjoying the American wine too much! The referenced document is "The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989" and they were implemented as a Statutory Instrument under the "Health and Safet

re: Power Adapter LPS

2003-05-12 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, I presume that you replying here for product use in North America only? If the power supply is powered from the ac mains supply and it is intended for use in Europe (and many other parts of the world) then no amount of testing (e.g. to UL 1310) will be able to prove compliance with IEC/

re: Surface Temperature Limits

2003-04-30 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Doug, Thanks for confirming that CSA 60950-1 has followed IEC 60950-1 and EN 60950-1 in specifying absolute temperatures rather than a delta above ambient. Are you REQUIRED to conduct heating tests at the highest rated ambient temperature - in your example 30 degC? Well, that depends on whe

re: CE and driving LEDs from mains

2003-04-29 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Richard, The circuit you describe would not be acceptable if your intention is to have the LEDs touchable by a person. This is because you have not provided adequate isolation between the source of hazardous voltage (230 Vac-rms mains) and an accessible part. The only capacitor type that provi

re: Surface Temperature Limits

2003-04-25 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Brian, I will concentrate on replying in connection to EN 60950-1 and let others confirm, or otherwise, applicability to EN 601010-1. I would suggest first of all that you look at the first edition of EN 60950-1 rather than the third edition of EN 60950, unless you have a good reason to use to

re: Fiber and AC mains wire runs

2003-04-22 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Richard, As I mentioned in my original reply, the building wiring rules vary from one country within the EU to another. While it is true that the UK Wiring Regulations (BSI 7671) are based on the CENELEC Harmonised Document HD384, which is itself based on the IEC 60364 series of standards, it w

re: Symbols vs. text - was EN61010-1, Symbol 14

2003-04-18 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Hi Rich, > First, do we have clear, unambiguous definitions for our safety symbols? Based on the very short definitions in 417, I think not. > I believe we need much more work on the definitions. As you know, standards are not static things set in stone. If you think that IEC 60417 needs to

Symbols vs. text - was EN61010-1, Symbol 14

2003-04-18 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Rich, Thank you for explaining that words were made from letters and sentences were made from a mixture of words (and letters by the way). It's simply amazing how informative these exchanges can be! You said "We in the product safety industry must be very careful that we use symbols in strict

re: EN61010-1, Symbol 14

2003-04-17 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Rich, As you say, this web site provides a discussion on the exclamation symbol. However, the discussion is slanted in one direction that not everyone in the safety fraternity would necessarily subscribe to. For instance, I have seen the 'high voltage flash' sign used as a symbol in an internet

Re: Fiber and AC mains wire runs

2003-04-16 Thread richhug...@aol.com
In a message dated 16/04/2003 21:23:18 GMT Daylight Time, dcerece...@pelco.com writes: David The wiring regulations in Europe are based on a CENELEC Harmonised Document (HD) rather than a European Norm (EN) and, as such, it is permissible for requirements to vary from country-to-country in E

re: Exemption from CE for products intended for military or police purposes

2003-04-15 Thread richhug...@aol.com
Peter, Article 296 of the Treaty of Rome exempts certain weapons from other community laws. As for "Products specially or exclusively intended for military or police purposes" this has been discussed, for instance, with respect to the revised LVD. There are a number of practical problems th