Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-28 Thread Dave
Perhaps just run another line and insulate it and deal with the original line when it gets warm?? >>Chain trenching would not be popular :-) Then offer them an alternative either trench the rock with dynamite, or chain trench.. which would your neighbors prefer. ;-) Chain tre

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-28 Thread andy pugh
On 28 December 2010 04:53, Dave wrote: > Of course if you are sitting on bedrock then that won't work well. That is part of the problem, the soil depth is limited (in fact the bottom foot of the wall that the water pipe enters through _is_ bedrock) and the pipe route is from the cistern, through

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-27 Thread Dave
Since we are just getting into winter you might want to consider running a new line across the ground and insulate it. Never entirely turn it off and it will take some very cold temps to freeze it. Or run a heat tape inside the insulation. Plastic pipe is relatively cheap in the US. Pex is

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-27 Thread Kent A. Reed
On 12/27/2010 9:26 AM, andy pugh wrote: > On 26 December 2010 20:37, Richard Arthur > wrote: > > Digging is looking very unpromising, I made a deep enough hole to hide > a small rabbit from a short-sighted fox in 15 minutes of work with a > mattock and hot water. > What a lovely turn of phrase!

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-27 Thread andy pugh
On 26 December 2010 20:37, Richard Arthur wrote: > HDPE suggests more recent 'history', so I would have expected the pipe > to be installed below 18". I wouldn't have thought our recent conditions > would have caused a problem at that depth. I'd put my money on the point > of entry in to the (old?

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-26 Thread Richard Arthur
HDPE suggests more recent 'history', so I would have expected the pipe to be installed below 18". I wouldn't have thought our recent conditions would have caused a problem at that depth. I'd put my money on the point of entry in to the (old?) building. Get your spade out and have a look :-) On

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-26 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Sat, 2010-12-25 at 21:45 +, andy pugh wrote: > I am at my parents' house for christmas. The water supply pipe is > frozen, somewhere underground and we have no water. This is putting > rather a crimp on things. ... snip Just in case, I have located septic lines and blockage with one of thos

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-26 Thread Gary Crowell
When mine froze a few years ago, I was pretty sure it was in the crawl space under the house. Heating ducts were there too, so I just opened one up and turned up the heat. Like a charm it worked. Gary On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Jim Fleig wrote: > James' idea below will also work with c

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-26 Thread Jim Fleig
James' idea below will also work with compresssed air. Have a good day, Jim Fleig 585 975-9618 On Dec 25, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Jim Wilkin wrote: > I have heard of people pushing a small diameter plastic tube > connected > to a steam generator through the pipe . > > On 12/25/2010 04:45 PM,

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-26 Thread Richard Arthur
HDPE suggests more recent 'history', so I would have expected the pipe to be installed below 18". I wouldn't have thought our recent conditions would have caused a problem at that depth. I'd put my money on the point of entry in to the (old?) building. Get your spade out and have a look :-) On

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-26 Thread Phil Hassell
Like others have said the pipe is too near the surface. There also maybe a leak from the pipe or surrounding environment allowing thermal transfer. To cure look for those clues between the dwelling and the supply leave any taps open and heat the ground with a roofers torch burner quite cheap fr

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates [OT]

2010-12-25 Thread Don Stanley
Hi Andy; If you have access to wire tracer simular to those used by telephone and electrical workers; you can disconnect the water back at the source, run a clean cable (or wire) down the pipe; hook the signal generator to it and trace the pipe to your shallow place. If you set the signal generator

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates [OT]

2010-12-25 Thread Spiderdab
andy, maybe it's a blind shot, but you could try to boil some water and, after having opened all the pipes, try to spray some with a painting compressor, or with a hand spray (those for gardening..) here i had a big problem, in country side some days ago, but that's because the main pipe line is ou

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates [OT]

2010-12-25 Thread ducemailbox
un, 26 Dec 2010 00:37:18 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates [OT] On 25 December 2010 23:25, R.L. Wurdack wrote: > The problem I had was caused by a road > regrad

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates [OT]

2010-12-25 Thread andy pugh
On 25 December 2010 23:25, R.L. Wurdack wrote: > The problem I had was caused by a road > regrading. ... > Likely it is: 1. close to the cistern, 2. close to the house or > pumphouse, or 3. Where the terrain has changed most recently from grading > etc. This is our guess, the track into the uppe

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-25 Thread andy pugh
On 25 December 2010 22:38, dave wrote: > Ouch! If the plastic is pvc then it is toast ... cracks/splits really > easily when cold. I have way too much experience with pvc as irrigation > pipe. If it is polyethylene or cpvc then I have no experience. It's HDPE, which should be fine. > Sometimes t

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates [OT]

2010-12-25 Thread R.L. Wurdack
like washing milking barn floors.) D. - Original Message - From: "Jack Coats" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2010 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates > Resistive heat tapes are usually OK. T

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-25 Thread Jim Wilkin
I have heard of people pushing a small diameter plastic tube connected to a steam generator through the pipe . On 12/25/2010 04:45 PM, andy pugh wrote: > I am at my parents' house for christmas. The water supply pipe is > frozen, somewhere underground and we have no water. This is putting > rathe

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-25 Thread Jon Elson
andy pugh wrote: > I am at my parents' house for christmas. The water supply pipe is > frozen, somewhere underground and we have no water. This is putting > rather a crimp on things. > > Is there a well-known solution to this problem? It is a somewhat > unusual supply, being a private, communal sup

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-25 Thread Jack Coats
Resistive heat tapes are usually OK. They are thermostatically controlled. but do be sfe... ><> ... Jack Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart... Colossians 3:23 On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 3:45 PM, andy pugh wrote: > I am at my parents' house for christmas. The water supply pipe is >

Re: [Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-25 Thread dave
Ouch! If the plastic is pvc then it is toast ... cracks/splits really easily when cold. I have way too much experience with pvc as irrigation pipe. If it is polyethylene or cpvc then I have no experience. I used one inch Cu for pressure tank to house. It is only two feet deep so when the mins di

[Emc-users] Non EMC: Advice from Cold Climates

2010-12-25 Thread andy pugh
I am at my parents' house for christmas. The water supply pipe is frozen, somewhere underground and we have no water. This is putting rather a crimp on things. Is there a well-known solution to this problem? It is a somewhat unusual supply, being a private, communal supply fed from a spring into a