On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 at 15:46, Josh Landess via EV wrote:
> Your own points can be added to the skeptical side of my watching
> things, but just to balance this out a bit, it does appear that Saietta
> does still exist, as a quoted company (albeit on the AIM tier in London)
> and here is an April
Thanks for this info and perspective.
Your own points can be added to the skeptical side of my watching
things, but just to balance this out a bit, it does appear that Saietta
does still exist, as a quoted company (albeit on the AIM tier in London)
and here is an April announcement of a sale
Thanks, good to know the name Elaphe and to have the video links.
After 10 or 20 or more years of all of the broader vehicle-driving
community being talked-at about in-wheel motors (going back to the early
dreams of the MIEV and perhaps before), and notwithstanding that they
are available on
On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 at 00:23, Josh Landess via EV wrote:
> and we have this other blast-from-the-past:
> https://www.saietta.com/about-us/
> however, I don't know if they are presently trying to offer the in-wheel
> product. I don't presently see language about it on their page.
The words
There are tons of hub motors used on e-bikes and stand-up scooters. Most
of the time you will see that even these tiny motors aren't paired with
suspensions because then you get wheel hop.
If they are used on wheels that control your steering, then if you are
turning and hit a bump, you lose
The hub motors that Aptera are using are made by Elaphe, see these videos I
posted earlier:
>> On 7/8/2023 8:51 PM, Ryan Fulcher wrote:
>>> https://youtu.be/CqPMtEIT3f4
>>> https://youtu.be/1alRUqx9UX8
Also, in case anyone saw the recent national news story where an Aptera
I do think it's fair to give these things a chance in the public
marketplace, especially if it could be in a moderate passenger EV that
tries to highlight some of their strengths and not their weaknesses. I
personally still would not consider buying one unless or until we see
extensive
But there are physics problems. The unsprung mass ratio is the biggest
one. The lighter the vehicle the worse this problem becomes. The wheel
is unable to hit a small bump and move up over it because it's got so much
mass as compared to a "normal" car. When you hit a large bump and it
moves
Or maybe, and try to stick with me here, just maybe, this company that has
spent tons of money up front on research and development that has test
articles which achieve <100Wh/mile at freeway speeds has somehow engineered
high quality hub motors. I don;t think there is anything in physics which
Then you call it a normal motor!
And instead of making a lot of poles and super high currents (inefficient)
to get reasonable torque like most hub motors, you can put a gear reduction
in and now you are like most all production EVs. Most use a single motor,
gear reduction, then a differential.
I wonder if you could take hub motors and mount them inboard, so instead of
a differential you'd have back-to-back "hub"motors connected to
driveshafts. So you don't have the unsprung weight of hub motors, but you
do get the advantages of electronically controllable torque per wheel.
On Sun, 16
it does sound like a shame they went with hub motors. Otherwise, the
vehicle is something I could consider buying. Well, I'll keep an eye
out for early owner reports and maybe if they seem "ok", I'll still
consider it someday. Or maybe if the company gets harsh feedback from
owners it will
Hi Josh and All, Hub motors are bad for 2 reasons, they have little start up
torque and to make up for they require heavy powerful motors. They are great
in non suspension Ebikes, etc where it can be much smaller as gets help with a
leg push/pedal for starting up.As a lightweight EVer I was
I hadn't noticed that they were using the hub motors, thanks for
pointing this up. I will be a bit more cautious before I consider
getting one, though I'll still keep open the possibility. On top of the
other risks they seem to be asking from their pioneer first customers,
that one seems
Wheel motors have a lot of issues, but one of the biggest is the unsprung
mass ratio problem, which is especially bad on a lightweight car like the
Aptera.
On Sun, Jul 9, 2023 at 7:10 PM Ryan Fulcher via EV
wrote:
> Of course, Aptera is also "breaking the mold" with their hub motors.
> Yes,
Of course, Aptera is also "breaking the mold" with their hub motors.
Yes, Time will tell of course. And I hope that we start to see them
hitting the road by the end of this year.
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On 9 Jul 2023 at 20:14, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
> There is a reason nobody is using wheel motors on highway capable vehicles.
It does seem that many EV developers veer onto that road. If memory serves,
that was the original proposal for the Mitsubishi Imiev. Eventually they
abandon the
Thanks for those informative videos. It still isn't real world data.
There is a reason nobody is using wheel motors on highway capable vehicles.
On 7/8/2023 8:51 PM, Ryan Fulcher wrote:
So this?
https://youtu.be/CqPMtEIT3f4
Or this:
https://youtu.be/1alRUqx9UX8
On Sat, Jul 8, 2023, 17:46
Sat, 08 Jul 2023 20:13:37 +0200
From: "EV List Lackey"
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, next level PV Aptera grins.
Message-ID: <64a9c371.6781.f6a0...@evpost.drmm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I'm not an expert or
So this?
https://youtu.be/CqPMtEIT3f4
Or this:
https://youtu.be/1alRUqx9UX8
On Sat, Jul 8, 2023, 17:46 Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
> I was excited about the Aptera until I saw the hub motors.
>
> I'll pass until I see some real world reliability demonstrated.
>
-- next part
I was excited about the Aptera until I saw the hub motors.
I'll pass until I see some real world reliability demonstrated.
On 7/7/2023 3:30 AM, Ryan Fulcher via EV wrote:
I'm looking forward to being finally proven wrong about the practicality of
PV on your EV when the Aptera starts being
I'm not an expert or engineer, but I suspect that we're about at the stage
where it would be possible to build an EV capable of a few dozen miles of
daily travel, using solely sunlight from its own PV.
It might even be a bit more civilized and comfortable than the solar
challenge racers. In
From: Ryan FulcherI'm looking forward to being finally proven wrong about the
practicality of
PV on your EV when the Aptera starts being delivered...
For a decade the Eindhoven Solar team has 4 cars win the World Solar
Challenge and an RV for proof of concept that solar vehicles work.
That is sort of impressive, however at 18mph there is basically no
aerodynamic drag. And yes, a century old baker electric was already very
efficient. It's easy to tell because the waste heat produced was very low
even back then.
The Aptera remains efficient at freeway speeds, and the
John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
People would also need to be willing to accept the crash safety level of
a motorcycle.
I don't think it's nearly that bad. Many small and light ICE vehicles
have nevertheless passed crash test standards and had excellent safety
records. It just requires that the
I believe the Aptera should be somewhat more safe than a motorcycle. I
think they have crash test data and their passenger shell is very strong.
It is more efficient than a motorcycle as well.
I didn't intend to get into the weeds regarding the engineering trade
offs... I just thought the
On 7/7/2023 3:48 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:
But, nothing says that a car needs to weigh two tons to transport one
person 30 miles per day (the daily average according to AAA). It *is*
possible for an ultra-efficient and streamlined vehicle to do that on
solar power alone.
There have been
Ryan Fulcher via EV wrote:
I absolutely understand and am of the mind to still proclaim that PV
on a normal car is still impractical.
The only reason it works on the Aptera [and other super-efficient
vehicles] is that it has the aerodynamics and efficiency of an
electrathon.
I agree. A normal
An RV is a totally different case, especially one that's a trailer, as you
want power for the house loads while it's parked.
Keep in mind a few kWh in an RV goes a long way, but in an EV, even an
Aptera, it's not all that much energy.
Also, you've already "paid the devil" to move the RV with its
I absolutely understand and am of the mind to still proclaim that PV on a
normal car is still impractical.
Although the https://lightshiprv.com/ is yet another of those edge cases
that I've always thought might make sense and am glad that someone is
finally pursuing at scale.
The only reason it
> I bet you'll be lucky to get 15, and you'll have to park
> in the sun with no shade to do it. If you just took the
> same cells and covered your parking space
> with them, it's a better use of them.
The practical thinkers here have been beating the "solar powered car"
boosters on this list
PV on an EV will help a little, but it is far better to put the PV on your
house.
We have a 1.5kW Solar option for our vans which have a large flat roof, and
there is little aero penalty, and it gets only about 15 miles a day peak.
We also sell a refrigerated option that's all electric, and this
I'm looking forward to being finally proven wrong about the practicality of
PV on your EV when the Aptera starts being delivered... Of course they did
it by making a body that is multiple times as aerodynamically efficient as
your average car. At 100Wh/mil (10miles/kWh) what would be 4-10miles
Nice story! New EV’s are almost boring already No tinkering.
Taking older Leaf to -25C and for a longer road trip is a time machine to
SLA era. Oh that pain with 30-40 mile range.
Not in too distant future we’ll have 1000 mile range EV’s. That’ll provide
some more of that EV grin.
Interesting
Hello EVDLrs.
After 7 years of lots of grins and a few pouts,
we decided it's time for another EV.
The Leaf was borderline adequate for my 60+ mile commute,
but required a small additional boost when traffic forced me to go the long
way.
Then Covid hit and I went to 99.9% remote.
Visits to my
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