Re: Maudlin & How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-01-29 Thread Russell Standish
Steady on, old fellow. We know about Maudlin's argument (which essentially the same as Bruno's MGA), which indicates the incompatibility of materialism and COMP. I know you had some argument against COMP, but I never really got it. Maybe you could try summarising/simplifying it for the group. But

Re: Maudlin & How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-01-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Jan 2011, at 06:27, ColinHales wrote: Now say "humans are conscious? Prove it." To which I say "COMP is true? Prove it" Been around this loop many times. :-) COMP is a solution of x -> ~Bx, like consciousness, and consistency. If COMP is true, it is no provable. If I am conscious, t

Re: A comment on Mauldin's paper “Computation and Consciousness”

2011-01-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Jan 2011, at 04:59, Rex Allen wrote: On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Jan 2011, at 18:48, Brent Meeker wrote: On 1/27/2011 8:34 PM, Rex Allen wrote: On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Brent Meeker> wrote: What does "locally" mean in this context? I dou

Re: A comment on Mauldin's paper “Computation and Consciousness”

2011-01-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
Rex, Well here I disagree (with Wikipedia, not with Turing, although he is responsible for this widespread misconception). The discovery of the universal machine by Turing is the discovery of a finite Turing machine capable of emulating all the other machine from a number description (a p

Re: A comment on Mauldin's paper “Computation and Consciousness”

2011-01-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
Rex, Brent, On 1/28/2011 7:59 PM, Rex Allen wrote: On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Jan 2011, at 18:48, Brent Meeker wrote: On 1/27/2011 8:34 PM, Rex Allen wrote: On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Brent Meeker> wrote: What does "locally" mean in this con

Solution to the OM problem

2011-01-29 Thread smitra
On this list we've talked about "observer moments" (OM) quite a lot, but I always found the notion that some pattern represents a conscious state to be problematic. I have written up a draft of a paper, see here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.4472 One can use the reasoning in the end of the paper

Re: JOINING: Travis Garrett

2011-01-29 Thread smitra
Welcome! I haven't been active on this list lately. Your article looks very interesting, I'll read it in detail. Saibal Citeren Travis Garrett : Hi everybody, My name is Travis - I'm currently working as a postdoc at the Perimeter Institute. I got an email from Richard Gordon and Evge

Re: Maudlin & How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-01-29 Thread John Mikes
Hi, Colin, I enjoyed your diatribe. (From time to time I accept some of your ideas and even include them into my ways of thinking - which may be a praise or a threat). Question: Could you briefly identify your usage of "science" - even "scientist"? (sometimes I consider an 'average' (=multitude o

Re: A comment on Mauldin's paper “Computation and Consciousness”

2011-01-29 Thread Rex Allen
On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> On 1/27/2011 8:34 PM, Rex Allen wrote: I would have thought that dreams would be a pretty clear counter-example to the claim that consciousness requires a world to interact with...? >>> >>> Do you think you could have dr

Re: A comment on Mauldin's paper “Computation and Consciousness”

2011-01-29 Thread Rex Allen
On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > On 1/28/2011 7:54 PM, Rex Allen wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >>> On 1/27/2011 10:08 PM, Rex Allen wrote: On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > But if the emulation attempt

Re: A comment on Mauldin's paper “Computation and Consciousness”

2011-01-29 Thread Rex Allen
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > Rex, > > Well here I disagree (with Wikipedia, not with Turing, although he is > responsible for this widespread misconception). Well, I'll buy that, I reckon. Though the usage of the term "infinite tape" is pretty widespread. I see it lot

Re: A comment on Mauldin's paper “Computation and Consciousness”

2011-01-29 Thread Brent Meeker
On 1/29/2011 10:41 PM, Rex Allen wrote: On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Rex, Well here I disagree (with Wikipedia, not with Turing, although he is responsible for this widespread misconception). Well, I'll buy that, I reckon. Though the usage of the term "infi