Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> >> If God is arithmetical truth, then what if anything is there to be said >> about its "character"? I know from a formal perspective

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:47, Terren Suydam wrote: If God is arithmetical truth, then what if anything is there to be said about its "character"? That it has a lot of imagination, is creative, and probably has some sense of humor. But none of this can be taken literally. Indeed, the notion o

Re: Chosen-ness

Hi John Mikes, Very Brunoish! besides: you may invest in an "s" at the end of my (last) name, my son even puts "sh" as an ending. I don't care if John Mike is duplicated anywhere. John Mikes (active on THIs list since ~1998?) All my apologies John. It is* because* you are a long standing e

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 18 Feb 2013, at 17:29, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2013, at 18:09, Jason Resch wrote: Thanks to everyone who replied to this post. So far Stathis and Bruno both answered that both cases are equivalent. Is there anyone will

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Monday, February 18, 2013 9:30:49 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > > There is no argument presented in this article. The stock market and brain > and indeed most natural systems are chaotic, but that is not the same as > being not computable. > Yes, I posted it just to show that someone wh

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Monday, February 18, 2013 9:30:49 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> >> There is no argument presented in this article. The stock market and brain >> and indeed most natural systems are chaotic, but that is not the same as >> being

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 18 Feb 2013, at 22:18, meekerdb wrote: On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: If God is arithmetical truth, then what if anything is there to be said about its "character"? I know from a formal perspective the answer is nothing, because nothing formal can be said about truth. T

Re: [foar] consciousness

On 18 Feb 2013, at 22:45, Kermit Rose wrote: On 2/18/2013 4:14 PM, LizR wrote: On 19 February 2013 06:28, Kermit Rose wrote: On 2/18/2013 4:31 AM, LizR wrote: Yes, I agree with all that. I assume the hard problem is whether consciousness itself does, rather than the contents of consciousne

Re: the character of the god of comp

Hi Terren, Hi Brent, No, I don't have any desire to anthropomorphize those things you mentioned, but I think it's fair to say we are all wired to want to anthropomorphize things in general - especially things we can't predict that have some kind of impact on us, like the weather. That

Re: Science is a religion by itself.

On 19 Feb 2013, at 07:47, socra...@bezeqint.net wrote: On Feb 18, 5:28 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: Quite wise statements indeed. But is that not a reason to be cautious with general statement like you did above in the Biswas quote ? Bruno == Oh, we are very careful. We do every t

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 19 Feb 2013, at 07:49, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2013, at 18:09, Jason Resch wrote: Thanks to everyone who replied to this post. So far Stathis and Bruno both answered that both cases are equivalent. Is there anyone willi

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 19 Feb 2013, at 08:03, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: If God is arithmetical truth, then what if anything is there to be said about its "character"? I know from a formal perspective the answer is no

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > I would assume that geometric truths don't contradict arithmetic truths. > And arithmetical truths don't contradict geometrical truths, and a 3D geometrical machine can provide answers to arithmetical questions, and a 1D arithmetical machine can provi

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:39:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > I would assume that geometric truths don't contradict arithmetic truths. >> > > And arithmetical truths don't contradict geometrical truths, and a 3D > geometrical machine can

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 19 Feb 2013, at 07:49, Jason Resch wrote: > > > >> Are you OK that your daughter makes money in that way? >> > > No. > > > OK. But if she is adult, and if you have the assurance that she "knows" > what she is doing, i.e. that she has so

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:02:36 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Monday, February 18, 2013 9:30:49 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no argument presented in this article. The s

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:02:36 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Craig Weinberg >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Monday, February 18, 2013 9:30:49 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> > >> On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: > >> > >> > >> If God is arithmetical truth, then what if anything is

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/19/2013 2:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Feb 2013, at 17:29, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2013, at 18:09, Jason Resch wrote: Thanks to everyone who replied to this post. So far Stathis and Bruno both answered that both cas

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: 3. We need not our memories to be ourselves. Imagine concentrating heavily on some task, such as taking an exam, or driving in perilous conditions. You become so focused on your task that you use almost none of your personal long term memories. In

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: 4. In the course of normal life, we gain memories (through experience) and lose memories (by forgetting). Yet most feel they are still the same person. This allows for some interesting experiments with a "faulty teleporter". You step into the teleport

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: 6. Swapping places with someone: In 5 seconds, your mind and consciousness will swap with that of some rich and famous person. Let's say Bill Gates. I hope you are ready. 5. 4. 3. 2. 1. The swap is complete. Bill Gates is now in your body, with acce

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:27 PM, meekerdb wrote: > In the Restorer story there is the assumption that everything can be put > back as it was; but that is nomologically impossible. > Not everything in the sense of the entire universe, just everything about your physical body/brain. I don't see

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/19/2013 12:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:39:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 Craig Weinberg > wrote: > I would assume that geometric truths don't contradict arithmetic truths. And arithmetical truths don't contr

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > >> >> 3. We need not our memories to be ourselves. Imagine concentrating >> heavily on some task, such as taking an exam, or driving in perilous >> conditions. You become so focused on your task that

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: If God is arithmetical truth, then what if anything is there to be said about its "character"? I know from a for

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:35 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > 4. In the course of normal life, we gain memories (through experience) and > lose memories (by forgetting). Yet most feel they are still the same > person. This allows for some interesting experime

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > 6. Swapping places with someone: In 5 seconds, your mind and consciousness > will swap with that of some rich and famous person. Let's say Bill Gates. > I hope you are ready. 5. 4. 3. 2. 1. The s

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

2013/2/19 Jason Resch > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> 6. Swapping places with someone: In 5 seconds, your mind and >> consciousness will swap with that of some rich and famous person. Let's >> say Bill Gates. I hope y

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> >> If God is arithmetical truth, then what if anything is there to be said >> about its "

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: >>> >>> On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: >>> >>> >>> If God is arithm

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> > >> On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: >

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2013/2/19 Jason Resch > >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> 6. Swapping places with someone: In 5 seconds, your mind and >>> consciousness will swap with

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: >> >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >> >> >> On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/19/2013 1:40 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:27 PM, meekerdb > wrote: In the Restorer story there is the assumption that everything can be put back as it was; but that is nomologically impossible. Not everything in the sense of th

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/19/2013 1:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: 3. We need not our memories to be ourselves. Imagine concentrating heavily on some task, such as taking an

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/19/2013 1:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:35 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: 4. In the course of normal life, we gain memories (through experience) and lose memories (by forgetting). Yet most

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/19/2013 1:58 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:39 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: 6. Swapping places with someone: In 5 seconds, your mind and consciousness will swap with that of some rich and famo

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:14 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/19/2013 1:40 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:27 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> In the Restorer story there is the assumption that everything can be put >> back as it was; but that is nomologically impossible. >> > > Not

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:21 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/19/2013 1:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >>> 3. We need not our memories to be ourselves. Imagine concentrating >>> heavily on some

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Richard Ruquist > wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Jason Resch > wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:27 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/19/2013 1:58 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> 6. Swapping places with someone: In 5 seconds, your mind and >> consciousness will swap with

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 2/19/2013 2:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terren S

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/19/2013 2:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 2/18/2013 11:47 AM, Terre

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On 2/19/2013 12:26 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:02:36 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, February 18, 2013 9:30:49 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote:

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 2/19/2013 12:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Richard Ruquist > wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@veriz

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > On 2/19/2013 12:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: > >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Jason Resch >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >> >

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 2/19/2013 8:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Stephen P. King mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote: On 2/19/2013 12:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Richard Ruquist mailto:yann...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, Feb 19,

Re: The duplicators and the restorers

On 2/19/2013 3:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:21 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/19/2013 1:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 2/18/2013 10:49 PM, Jason Res

“The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 12:39 AM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: > As far as the stock market being computable, how would you go about > determining, for instance, whether or not I rebalance my 401k and on what > day and time? You can't, because it's a chaotic system. If you eschew computers and "simula

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Wednesday, February 20, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote: If he is making mice conscious of infra-red light though, then I would say > he works with consciousness. > How do you know the mice are conscious of infra-red light? If it were a machine you would say it wasn't conscious, it just reacted to

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 2/19/2013 4:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:18 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 2/19/2013 2:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 2/18/2013 11:03 PM, Jason Res

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:44:23 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > On 2/19/2013 12:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:39:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> > I would assume that geometric truths

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 2/19/2013 5:22 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi Jason, It seems to me that the demi-gods would not be motivated to have Platonist-like ontologies. As I see things, only we of finite resources concoct such Platonist theories to give ourselves the illusion of superpowers All it takes is t

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:26:24 PM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:02:36 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Craig Weinberg > >> wrote: >

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:53:46 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, February 20, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > If he is making mice conscious of infra-red light though, then I would say >> he works with consciousness. >> > > How do you know the mice are conscious of infra-

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:58:15 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > On 2/19/2013 12:26 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > > wrote: > >> > >> On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:02:36 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > >>> On Tue, Feb 19, 20

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:48:03 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 12:39 AM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: > > > As far as the stock market being computable, how would you go about > > determining, for instance, whether or not I rebalance my 401k and on what > > day and

Re: Science is a religion by itself.

On Feb 19, 3:51 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > In front of the infinite? To laugh. > In front of nothingness? To cry. > In between, a bit of both. > > Bruno > > - Show quoted text - Nice, thanks. By the way, your photos 'par Lydia Nash' nice too. All the best. = -- You received this message becau

Re: the character of the god of comp

On 2/19/2013 11:16 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/19/2013 5:22 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi Jason, It seems to me that the demi-gods would not be motivated to have Platonist-like ontologies. As I see things, only we of finite resources concoct such Platonist theories to give ourselves the ill

Re: “The brain is not computable and no engineering can reproduce it,”

On 2/19/2013 11:34 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:58:15 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 2/19/2013 12:26 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:02:36 AM UTC-5,

Re: the character of the god of comp

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > On 2/19/2013 8:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > >> On 2/19/2013 12:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Fe

Re: Science is a religion by itself.

. . . the electric universe . . . ? ! =. Vacuum energy is some kind of energy in the infinite space between billion and billion galaxies. In this infinite space virtual potential energy particles exist with energy: E=Mc^2. Using inner impulse h*=h/2pi they appears from vacuum as phenomena wi