Re: A challenge for Craig

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:49:29 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Craig Weinberg >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Thursday, September 26, 2013 6:17:04 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

On 26 Sep 2013, at 14:40, Richard Ruquist wrote: If so then the cosmos is not rich enough to derive people. Why would this follow? I have to reject comp on that basis for the cosmos existed long before people. Locally, it existed long before the human people. Globally, there is no tim

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

On 26 Sep 2013, at 14:57, Craig Weinberg wrote: Not at all. The prediction must be based on the precise math of number's imagination. But how could flavor be predicted by any math? What would be the point also? If you have mathematical encodings which are represented as molecules, why w

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

Hello Chris, On 27 Sep 2013, at 01:51, chris peck wrote: Hi Well Im sure that I am missing something important, but I can't see it so far... >>The diary is the one that you have with you. You will not have two diaries, since you cannot experience being in Moscow and Wsahington at the same

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

On Friday, September 27, 2013 9:47:57 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 26 Sep 2013, at 14:57, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > Not at all. The prediction must be based on the precise math of > > number's imagination. > > > > But how could flavor be predicted by any math? What would be t

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 26 Sep 2013, at 12:34, David Nyman wrote: On 26 September 2013 08:14, Bruno Marchal wrote: You argue, I think, that computationalism escapes this by showing how computation and logic emerge naturally from arithmetic. And how this explains the appearance of discourse on consciousness a

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 Sep 2013, at 02:51, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 5:40 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 12:18, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 4:51 PM, chris peck wrote: "Giving the built-in symmetry of this experiment, if asked before the experiment about his personal future location, the experience

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 Sep 2013, at 02:18, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 4:51 PM, chris peck wrote: Hi Well Im sure that I am missing something important, but I can't see it so far... >>The diary is the one that you have with you. You will not have two diaries, since you cannot experience being in Moscow a

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 Sep 2013, at 03:20, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 6:00 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 12:51, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 5:40 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 12:18, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 4:51 PM, chris peck wrote: "Giving the built-in symmetry of this experiment, if

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

On 26 Sep 2013, at 19:41, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 2:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: which for a logician are more demanding than the reals, as the first order theory of the real is NOT Turing complete Bruno, could point to a pedagogical reference on that? i deduce it from a Theorem by Ta

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 Sep 2013, at 04:48, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 27 September 2013 12:34, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 7:15 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 27 September 2013 11:03, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 6:05 PM, Russell Standish wrote: This is a sort of cul de sac experience, which has to

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 meekerdb wrote: >> You make a big deal about duplicating chambers and what city you end up >> in and make all sorts of mystical conclusions from it; but all it comes >> down to is the fact that different data streams (like one coming from >> Washington and another from Mosco

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 Sep 2013, at 04:50, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 7:33 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 14:18, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 13:03, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 6:05 PM, Russell Standish wrote: This is a sort of cul de sac experience, which

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish wrote: > I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago when > you were discussing what a man in Helsinki would experience when undergoing > the duplicator experiment. > Yes. > I seem to recall you thought the man would experience being

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013/9/27 John Clark > > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish wrote: > > > I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago when >> you were discussing what a man in Helsinki would experience when undergoing >> the duplicator experiment. >> > > Yes. > > > > I seem to recall yo

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 September 2013 17:00, Bruno Marchal wrote: > The NDAA bill is equivalent with "If you fear me, I will put you > indefinitely in jail". I confess that I hadn't been giving this issue much attention. However, I now read the following: "Section 1021 of the NDAA bill of 2012 allowed for the

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 9/26/2013 9:28 PM, LizR wrote: I'm not sure that it's clear using the contents of consciousness, either. The thing is, if comp is right then there are definite computational steps that can be talked about, analysed and so on, but thoughts might be a long way above them. Thoughts may be huge

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 9/27/2013 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Sep 2013, at 04:50, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 7:33 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 14:18, meekerdb > wrote: On 9/26/2013 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 13:03, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@v

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 9/27/2013 10:31 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: >> You make a big deal about duplicating chambers and what city you end up in and make all sorts of mystical conclusions from it; but all it comes down to is th

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:37 PM, LizR wrote: > Anyone who has a problem with Bruno's teleportation thought experiment > should logically have the same problem with the MWI. > No, you are entirely incorrect. The Many World's Interpretation is about what you can expect to see, and although it may

Me doesn't have an I, because me is a materialist.

Hi - Me doesn't have an I, because me is a materialist. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 September 2013 16:08, chris peck wrote: >>> If there is an entity that remembers being me at time t1 then the me > at time t1 survives. For example, if I fall asleep on a plane and wake > up on another continent 8 hrs later, I have survived despite the time > and space gap and despite the fa

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 01:55:40PM -0400, John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 Russell Standish wrote: > > > I do remember a conversation you had with Bruno about 5 years ago when > > you were discussing what a man in Helsinki would experience when undergoing > > the duplicator experiment. >

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> I said that if Russell Standish were duplicated then Russell Standish >> would be in Moscow and Washington. >> > > > This is only true from the POV of an external observer which is not > Russell Standish > Don't give me that pee pee POV

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 28 September 2013 05:54, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:37 PM, LizR wrote: > >> > Anyone who has a problem with Bruno's teleportation thought experiment >> > should logically have the same problem with the MWI. > > > No, you are entirely incorrect. The Many World's Interpreta

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > Teleportation thought experiments are also about what you can expect to > see. > And I have no objection to thought experiments of that sort, but Bruno is not talking about assigning the probability you will see Moscow or Washington,

RE: What gives philosophers a bad name?

Hi Russel Thank goodness Clarcky has the same/similar complaint as me. I think Brent does too, because he said he had an initial reaction to the step like this and then offered an analysis of the probabilities to me all of which were certainties rather than indeterminacies. He didn't get back t

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 04:33:15AM +, chris peck wrote: > Hi Russel > > Thank goodness Clarcky has the same/similar complaint as me. I think Brent > does too, because he said he had an initial reaction to the step like this > and then offered an analysis of the probabilities to me all of whi

The confluence of cosmology and biology

So it seems to me that all of us are situated within a spectacular confluence of cosmological and biological factors. The cosmological factors include the fact that dark energy hasn't gotten strong enough to rip the whole works apart, that the moon just so happens to be just as big as it is to

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 27 Sep 2013, at 20:58, meekerdb wrote: On 9/27/2013 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Sep 2013, at 04:50, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 7:33 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 14:18, meekerdb wrote: On 9/26/2013 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 September 2013 13:03, meekerdb wrote: On