Bruce Kellett wrote:
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/30/2015 10:42 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
So prime numbers might exist_{math}, but they do not exist_{phys}. If
we keep this distinction clear we will avoid a lot of unnecessary
confusion.
I could have written that myself, Bruce. In fact I have. :-)
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/30/2015 10:42 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
So prime numbers might exist_{math}, but they do not exist_{phys}. If
we keep this distinction clear we will avoid a lot of unnecessary
confusion.
I could have written that myself, Bruce. In fact I have. :-)
We have talked toget
2015-03-31 7:19 GMT+02:00 meekerdb :
> On 3/30/2015 10:17 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
>
>> meekerdb wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
>>>
Bruno has acknowledged that this is not what the MGA shows. MGA simply
shows that his version of computationalism is incompa
On 3/30/2015 10:42 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Mar 2015, at 10:04, Bruce Kellett wrote:
OK. If all the connections and inputs remain intact, and the digital simulation is
accurate, I don't see a problem. But I might object if the doctor plans to replace my
brain with
On 3/30/2015 10:17 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno has acknowledged that this is not what the MGA shows. MGA simply shows that his
version of computationalism is incompatible with physical supervenience. This cannot
be seen as surpri
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Mar 2015, at 10:04, Bruce Kellett wrote:
OK. If all the connections and inputs remain intact, and the digital
simulation is accurate, I don't see a problem. But I might object if
the doctor plans to replace my brain with an abstract computation in
Platonia
The do
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno has acknowledged that this is not what the MGA shows. MGA simply
shows that his version of computationalism is incompatible with
physical supervenience. This cannot be seen as surprising since it is
explicitly built into compu
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 07:04:10AM -0400, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
> Well, its not the new jihadists I blame, but the (yes) leftist academics,
> politicians, and news thugs, that have long, empowered, and made excuses for
> these aggressors. My suspicion is that they see the jihadist
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:32 PM, LizR wrote:
> step zero is when you either do or don't agree that, if a doctor replaced
> your brain with an electronic version that exactly duplicated the
> computations (hypothetically) underlying your consciousness, you would
> survive the replacement
>
Well o
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal wrote:
> You talk like if there was an insuperable difficulty brought by the
> duplication.
Engineering difficulties only, scientific breakthroughs would not be
required to make a matter duplicating machine; however when such machines
become commonplace the E
On 31 March 2015 at 12:20, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
>
> I can't think of a situation where I would be more incredulous than if
> someone told me I wasn't really experiencing what I thought I was
> experiencing. For this reason, I don't think the consciousness-deniers are
> really consciousness-
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, LizR wrote:
> On 31 March 2015 at 09:28, Stathis Papaioannou > wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, Bruno Marchal > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
>>>
>>> On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou
>>> wrote:
>>>
Fading quali
On 31 March 2015 at 06:02, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> >> That true. in the MWI we don't say that, but even if we did the
>>> statement would not be gibberish it would just turn out to be wrong. But in
>>> the copying machine world "I will see Moscow tom
On 31 March 2015 at 11:11, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, LizR wrote:
>
>> On 31 March 2015 at 01:08, Stathis Papaioannou
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR wrote:
>>>
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou
wrote:
> Fading qua
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, LizR > wrote:
> On 31 March 2015 at 01:08, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
>
>> On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou
>>> wrote:
>>>
Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
possible, w
On 31 March 2015 at 05:47, John Clark wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:13 PM, LizR wrote:
>
> >> Yes, do you think its working? I always wanted to be in a boy band and
>>> I just learned that Zayn Malik is quitting One Direction and I'm trying to
>>> get his
>>>
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> > If that fails
On 31 March 2015 at 05:41, John Clark wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 LizR wrote:
>
>>
>>> > Bruno's point is that *if* consciousness is an outcome of computation,
>> then it could in principle be duplicated.
>>
>
> Of course it can be duplicated! Is that even supposed to be
> controversial? If
On 31 March 2015 at 05:41, John Clark wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 LizR wrote:
>
> > the MWI implies that our idea of what we are is wrong,
>>
>
> It's not wrong it's just not the whole truth. What is?
>
>
>> > or at least inadequate.
>>
>
> Well... it's worked pretty adequately for thousands
On 30 March 2015 at 15:16, meekerdb wrote:
> On 3/29/2015 7:06 PM, LizR wrote:
>
> On 30 March 2015 at 14:35, Kim Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> Them? They're just idiot warmongers like the brutes they are
>> confronting. Takes one to know one. As soon as you have "my tribe" you also
>> unfortunately h
On 30 March 2015 at 23:46, Telmo Menezes wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:04 AM, LizR wrote:
>
>> On 28 March 2015 at 23:12, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>>
>>> The characteristics of a gender have been evolved by millions of years
>>> of selection, and women preferences play a role in this selection
On 31 March 2015 at 09:28, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>>
>> On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
>>
>> On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
>>> possi
On 31 March 2015 at 01:08, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR wrote:
>
>> On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
>>> possible, would destroy the common idea of consciousness that we
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
>
> On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou > wrote:
>
>> Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
>> possible, would destroy the common idea of consciousness that we have.
>>
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal wrote:
> > So in Helsinki, if John Clark writes in the diary: "I predict that I
> will live either WW or WM or MW or MM", then
>
John Clark doesn't understand Bruno Marchal's notation and doesn't know the
difference between WW and WM, but it doesn't really mat
On 30 Mar 2015, at 05:45, LizR wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 15:20, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:10 PM, LizR wrote:
But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says "I"
expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what "I" means.
>The same is true of
On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou
wrote:
Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
possible, would destroy the common idea of consciousness that we have.
It would mean, for example, that you could have gone blind last we
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> That true. in the MWI we don't say that, but even if we did the
>> statement would not be gibberish it would just turn out to be wrong. But in
>> the copying machine world "I will see Moscow tomorrow" is equivalent to
>> "klogknee will see Moscow tom
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:13 PM, LizR wrote:
>> Yes, do you think its working? I always wanted to be in a boy band and I
>> just learned that Zayn Malik is quitting One Direction and I'm trying to
>> get his
>>
>
> :-)
>
> > If that fails you could try for a job as the next Doctor Who.
>
That's
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 LizR wrote:
>> No it is not the same. In the MWI if John Clark says "tomorrow I will
>> see the electron spin up" then tomorrow there is a clear way for Liz to
>> determine if the prediction was correct or not because the the laws pf
>> physics guarantee that Liz will find
On 30 Mar 2015, at 07:40, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 29 March 2015 at 05:31, Telmo Menezes
wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Quentin Anciaux
wrote:
2015-03-28 19:04 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes :
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 6:01 PM, John Clark
wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2015
On 30 Mar 2015, at 04:20, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:10 PM, LizR wrote:
But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says "I"
expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what "I" means.
>The same is true of the MWI.
No it is not the same. In the
On 30 Mar 2015, at 03:10, LizR wrote:
On 29 March 2015 at 10:45, John Clark wrote:
But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says "I"
expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what "I" means.
The same is true of the MWI. We don't say "I expect to see both spi
On 29 Mar 2015, at 21:41, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 10:47 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Michael Graziano's theory
On 29 Mar 2015, at 19:42, John Clark wrote:
(already answered/commented)
> You keep oscillating between too much simple and pompous (but
correct) and "incorrect" or "imprecise"
Well, that's what happens with a theory where the true parts are
obvious and the non-obvious parts are no
On 29 Mar 2015, at 19:47, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
> Quentin explained you politely the errors you made
Politely?!!
Yes.
His explanations were clear, polite and definite (three years ago). He
eventually get nervous only when you repeat
On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR wrote:
> On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou > wrote:
>
>> Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
>> possible, would destroy the common idea of consciousness that we have.
>> It would mean, for example, that you could have gone b
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Kim Jones wrote:
>
>
>
> On 30 Mar 2015, at 11:19 am, LizR wrote:
>
> On 30 March 2015 at 08:39, meekerdb wrote:
>
>> On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>>
>> Please! "Hunter Gatherers" - "warriors" is a boys' club term for it.
>>>
>>
>> I can accept
Best guess on my part. Platonia produces physicalism, via constant computation
{unproven} and yields the universe. Platonia is more real then 3 and 4 D space
that we are created from. Steinhart's theory- we are a data stream-process,
that gets promoted to another hypercomputer. Control-Alt-Delet
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:04 AM, LizR wrote:
> On 28 March 2015 at 23:12, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
>> The characteristics of a gender have been evolved by millions of years of
>> selection, and women preferences play a role in this selection process.
>>
>> Not just A role but the main role, I woul
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:33 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy <
multiplecit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 11:57 PM, John Clark wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>
>>> > Ok... Well now everybody can see you as you really are,
>>>
>> And I'm perfectly satisf
On 30 March 2015 at 18:40, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
>
> I was referring to the entire exchange, not just one side. It doesn't
> directly physically hurt anyone to be rude or abusive, but it's better
> not to be rude or abusive.
>
> It may cause emotional damage. In extreme cases of cyber-bullyi
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
> possible, would destroy the common idea of consciousness that we have.
> It would mean, for example, that you could have gone blind last week
> but not realise it. You would lo
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