Re: STEP 3

On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 7:08 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:15 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >>> The third option, (the common sense idea), which says "Certain >>> experiences belong to you, and others don't"

Re: STEP 3

On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 7:08 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:15 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> It's an imprecise and ad-hoc revision to the theory to preserve a >>> "singular identity" when the situation tells us the

Re: STEP 3

On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 7:10 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:44 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >> For example, you could, over time, change neuron by neuron,

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 27-07-2019 01:29, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 4:13 PM, smitra wrote: On 27-07-2019 00:39, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 7/26/2019 4:13 PM, smitra wrote: On 27-07-2019 00:39, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything

Re: STEP 3

On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 8:44 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:24 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> MWI is irrelevant to this discussion, since the branches in MWI are >> completely disjoint and form separate coherent worlds. Without overlap, >> common sense notions of personal

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 12:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is even beyond theoretical possibility to copy the quantum state. And that is necessary with digital mechanism, where to copy any piece of matter we would need the entire run of the universal dovetailer. No.  Holevo's theorem says that we

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 12:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Jul 2019, at 21:32, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: _ _ We, human needs brain, Why?  It's a trivial consequence of a materialist theory. On the contrary, this needs an identity

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 3:59 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:23 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 7/26/2019 2:10 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:44 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 27-07-2019 00:39, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 3:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:21 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 7/26/2019 2:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > Here the motivation comes from non-dualistic theories of mind.  If > there

Re: STEP 3

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:23 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 7/26/2019 2:10 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:44 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri,

Re: STEP 3

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:21 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 7/26/2019 2:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > Here the motivation comes from non-dualistic theories of mind. If > > there is not a magical soul that was breathed into your body,

Re: STEP 3

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:24 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 5:12 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 25 Jul 2019, at 18:44, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> Personal identity theories based on psychological or bodily continuity >> can always be shown to break down, either by holding

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wrote: This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wrote: This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People like Leslie Orgel have explained why

Re: STEP 3

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 1:07 AM Russell Standish wrote: > On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:44:23AM -0500, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > Closest continuer theory is the "Copenhagen Interpretation" of personal > > identity theory. A stop gap to preserve common sense notions in light of > > paradoxes that

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 2:10 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:44 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:42 PM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: For example, you could, over time,

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 2:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Here the motivation comes from non-dualistic theories of mind.  If there is not a magical soul that was breathed into your body, then there is no longer an identity, as all matter and patterns are in theory copyable. But they aren't, c.f. Holevo's

Re: STEP 3

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:44 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > For example, you could, over time, change neuron by neuron, until you > looked like and had the mind of Julius Caesar. > > >

Re: STEP 3

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:15 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:19 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 1:06 PM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Thursday, July 25, 2019, Bruce Kellett

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 12:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: And that is necessary with digital mechanism, where to copy any piece of matter we would need the entire run of the universal dovetailer. Neither matter nor consciousness are Turing emulable, but they are are “Turing borrowable” in some sense.

Re: STEP 3

On 7/26/2019 12:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But it seems like an ad hoc assumption to save your theory. On the contrary, it becomes a theorem. Bruno OK, what's the proof that humans need a brain, given nothing but computationalism as an axiom. Brent -- You received this message

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 7:01 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Does anybody know what "exists" means? > > > *> Perhaps we don’t, and that is why I ask people to formalise their idea > in first order logic, so we can move forward without any metaphysical > baggage. * Bruno, you can't specify the

Re: STEP 3

> On 26 Jul 2019, at 09:24, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 5:12 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 25 Jul 2019, at 18:44, Jason Resch > wrote: >> >> Personal identity theories based on psychological or bodily continuity can

Re: Observation versus assumption

> On 26 Jul 2019, at 16:08, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 3:16:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 25 Jul 2019, at 21:19, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Actually, from the Stawsonian materialist view, most neuroscientists do not >> believe in

Re: Observation versus assumption

On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 3:16:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 25 Jul 2019, at 21:19, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > > Actually, from the *Stawsonian materialist view*, *most neuroscientists > do not believe in matter*, or rather, they believe in a facade of matter > absent

Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism

Quite a strong belief you have within you, young padawan. On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 23:11:10 UTC+3, spudb...@aol.com wrote: > > I bet that biology is reducible to physics and the belief, since that is > what it is, a belief, is one reason we have missed the boat on the life > sciences

Re: STEP 3

> On 26 Jul 2019, at 06:42, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:19 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 1:06 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Thursday, July 25, 2019, Bruce Kellett

Re: STEP 3

> On 25 Jul 2019, at 23:18, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 7/25/2019 3:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 25 Jul 2019, at 07:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/24/2019 4:28 AM,

Re: STEP 3

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 5:12 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 25 Jul 2019, at 18:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > Personal identity theories based on psychological or bodily continuity can > always be shown to break down, either by holding the body the same and > changing the psyche, or holding the

Re: STEP 3

> On 25 Jul 2019, at 22:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 7/24/2019 10:52 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 3:16 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >> mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> On 7/24/2019 4:28 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: STEP 3

> On 25 Jul 2019, at 21:32, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 7/24/2019 4:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> There is no human consciousness without brain activity. But with mechanism >> things are like this: >> >> NUMBER => CONSCIOUSNESS => PHYSICAL REALITY => BRAINS =>

Re: STEP 3

> On 25 Jul 2019, at 18:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Monday, July 22, 2019, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 2:41 PM Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 11:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

Re: STEP 3

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:44:23AM -0500, Jason Resch wrote: > > Closest continuer theory is the "Copenhagen Interpretation" of personal > identity theory. A stop gap to preserve common sense notions in light of > paradoxes that imply the old way if thinking is untenable. > > As with quantum