Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-08-20 Thread James Starkey
On Thursday, August 20, 2015, Tommi Prami wrote: > Just my 0.02€ > > http://ianix.com/pub/chacha-deployment.html > > ChaCha20 is in TSL and OpenSSH etc. and mainly because it is secure and it > is fast. > > > I wasn't aware of that. Very, very cool. -- Jim Starkey

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-08-20 Thread Tommi Prami
Just my 0.02€ http://ianix.com/pub/chacha-deployment.html ChaCha20 is in TSL and OpenSSH etc. and mainly because it is secure and it is fast. -Tee- On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 2:26 PM, James Starkey wrote: > > > On Thursday, August 20, 2015, Michal Kubecek wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 02:

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-08-20 Thread James Starkey
On Thursday, August 20, 2015, Michal Kubecek wrote: > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 02:55:33PM -0400, Jim Starkey wrote: > > > > The best alternative to RC4 is AES-128. It is "more" (but not > > measurably) secure but also a couple of hundred times as expensive to > > compute. If you don't believe me

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-08-20 Thread Mark Rotteveel
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:55:33 -0400, Jim Starkey wrote: > You're excessing fussy. No one has ever found a SHA1 collision, let > alone a bogus hit. It is perfectly secure. It has known weaknesses, > but even with these known weaknesses, it is impossible to crack. > > RC4 is perfectly secure.

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-08-20 Thread Michal Kubecek
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 02:55:33PM -0400, Jim Starkey wrote: > > The best alternative to RC4 is AES-128. It is "more" (but not > measurably) secure but also a couple of hundred times as expensive to > compute. If you don't believe me, run your own numbers. I did... mike@unicorn:~> openssl sp

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-08-19 Thread Jim Starkey
You're excessing fussy. No one has ever found a SHA1 collision, let alone a bogus hit. It is perfectly secure. It has known weaknesses, but even with these known weaknesses, it is impossible to crack. RC4 is perfectly secure. It is vulnerable to correlated keys as used in WEP. But SRP use

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-28 Thread Dmitry Yemanov
27.07.2015 17:07, Jim Starkey wrote: > Question: Does Firebird detect, report, and shutdown repetitive attacks > on passwords? Yes, it does (in single-process architectures). Dmitry -- Firebird-Devel mailing list, we

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-28 Thread James Starkey
On Monday, July 27, 2015, Alex Peshkoff wrote: > On 07/26/2015 10:00 PM, Ivan Arabadzhiev wrote: > > Personally, I've recently started using (mostly for kicks) things like > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcrypt > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBKDF2 >

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread Jim Starkey
On 7/27/2015 8:35 AM, Alex Peshkoff wrote: > On 07/26/2015 10:36 PM, Jim Starkey wrote: > >> The bottom line is this: If you are going to change the password hash, >> you are going to invalidate all existing passwords. But rather than >> start over with an already flawed architecture, punt on sto

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread Jiří Činčura
Internet connections typically pass through a dozen routers, any of which could be configured to mount a man in the middle attack. The most important thing to get right is the security handshake. If that's weak, nothing else matters. I agree. I, and I believe the original proposal, was mostly

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread Ivan Arabadzhiev
Not saying I want/need that for the moment, but you did ask for suggestions. And yes, the exact purpose of slow hashing is to make bruteforce attacks harder both with legit client attempts to authenticate, and when/if the user database is compromised. The latter might be a more valid reason to swit

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread Alex Peshkoff
On 07/26/2015 10:00 PM, Ivan Arabadzhiev wrote: > Personally, I've recently started using (mostly for kicks) things like > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcrypt > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBKDF2 > I suppose the option to tune them in the future (or even in

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread James Starkey
Sorry, you got taught wrong. Security is about the whole system, not one piece. Hash based security is vulnerable during password exchange, which a slow hash doesn't fix. Internet connections typically pass through a dozen routers, any of which could be configured to mount a man in the middle at

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread Alex Peshkoff
On 07/26/2015 10:36 PM, Jim Starkey wrote: > The bottom line is this: If you are going to change the password hash, > you are going to invalidate all existing passwords. But rather than > start over with an already flawed architecture, punt on storing > passwords at all and go exclusively with S

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread Jiří Činčura
> Really?  Could you explain why an authentication scheme whose primary claim > to fame is > its high computational cost is a good choice for a database system that needs > to do > hundreds of authentications per minute or second? I've been taught that the hashing function for passwords should

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-27 Thread James Starkey
On Sunday, July 26, 2015, Jiří Činčura wrote: > > Personally, I've recently started using (mostly for kicks) things like > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcrypt > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBKDF2 > > I suppose the option to tune them in the future (

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-26 Thread Jiří Činčura
> Personally, I've recently started using (mostly for kicks) things like > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcrypt > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBKDF2 > I suppose the option to tune them in the future (or even introduce a > configurable > parameter) is also

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-26 Thread Jim Starkey
On 7/26/2015 2:38 PM, Alex Peshkoff wrote: > On 07/26/2015 01:39 PM, James Starkey wrote: >> If you were starting over from scratch, you wouldn't want to use SHA-1 to >> avoid wasting time with discussions like this. See also RC4. But the >> problem with SHA-1 doesn't justify the inconvenience of

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-26 Thread Ivan Arabadzhiev
Personally, I've recently started using (mostly for kicks) things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcrypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBKDF2 I suppose the option to tune them in the future (or even introduce a configurable parameter) is also a plus. 2015-07

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-26 Thread Alex Peshkoff
On 07/26/2015 01:39 PM, James Starkey wrote: > Get real. Read about the actual problems. Bthe issue is that there is a > theoretical problem that a manufactured duplicate collision could be > manufactored in something like time 2^82, something that nobody has > actually be able to do. > > Sure, SH

Re: [Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-26 Thread James Starkey
Get real. Read about the actual problems. Bthe issue is that there is a theoretical problem that a manufactured duplicate collision could be manufactored in something like time 2^82, something that nobody has actually be able to do. Sure, SHA-1 has a known weakeness. It's replacement probably ha

[Firebird-devel] Insecure hashing and encryption in Firebird 3

2015-07-26 Thread Mark Rotteveel
I have brought this up before, and it might be a bit annoying that I do so again, but I remain concerned by the fact that we are about to ship a product (Firebird 3) that uses hashing and encryption algorithms (SHA-1 and RC4) that most in the industry consider outdated and (relatively) insecure