Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-09 Thread Erik Hofman
Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:41:08 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: /gear/nose ..this also works for the big An-226 and B-52 and the Bleriot having twin nose gear? ..AFAIK, the Bleriot mains are effectively 2 free swiveling nose wheels, and the tail wheel is

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-08 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:41:08 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: /gear/nose ..this also works for the big An-226 and B-52 and the Bleriot having twin nose gear? ..AFAIK, the Bleriot mains are effectively 2 free swiveling nose wheels, and the tail wheel is effectively a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 16:04, Jim Wilson wrote: As it is now we need to test every single JSBSim aircraft every time a modification is made to flightgear because the trim routine is lacks robustness. Sorry, but this is simply not true. In this case it is a thing of an interface definition. If

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Suggestion: Create and give each FGInterface an own subdirectory of the property tree. An FDM itself should then restrict its accesses to the property tree to values inside this directory. This would 1. open the possibility of different FDM in the same flightgear

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon Berndt said: Thanks for the explanation. This does more than I originally thought. Would some sanity checks at the JSBSim.cxx level help? I'm not sure what they would be, other than the one mentioned before (that relates to this latest bug): make sure we have wheels above the

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jon Berndt
That makes sense. When and if gear compression modeling: will that complicate this or vice versa? Do you mean visual modeling of gear compression? Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon Berndt said: That makes sense. When and if gear compression modeling: will that complicate this or vice versa? Do you mean visual modeling of gear compression? As opposed to? I suppose you could say everything I'm asking about is visual, since I'm neither a pilot nor an engineer

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:05:38 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon Berndt said: As opposed to? I suppose you could say everything I'm asking about is visual, since I'm neither a pilot nor an engineer :-) It would be nice to eventually have the compression values to pull off visual

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Jon S Berndt wrote: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:05:38 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon Berndt said: As opposed to? I suppose you could say everything I'm asking about is visual, since I'm neither a pilot nor an engineer :-) It would be nice to eventually have the compression values

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:46:53 +0200 Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon wrote: We do have those values. I just never thought about publishing them. What do you need? What does YASim provide? What would be best? normalized compression would be great: gear/gear[]/compression-norm Erik Now,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Jon S Berndt wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:46:53 +0200 Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon wrote: We do have those values. I just never thought about publishing them. What do you need? What does YASim provide? What would be best? normalized compression would be great:

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon S Berndt said: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:46:53 +0200 Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon wrote: We do have those values. I just never thought about publishing them. What do you need? What does YASim provide? What would be best? normalized compression would be great:

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Jim Wilson wrote: Jon S Berndt said: Now, the question is how do we match up the 3D model gear strut with the FDM gear? Is there a common gear numbering scheme? How about gear that have swiveling bogeys (747, etc.)? Skids (X-15)? How do you id them in JSBSim? With YASim the gear entries are

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:58:03 +0200 Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JSBSim does basically the same (although there is a name allocated for it), but the real question is: Is left most defined 0, or is right mos define d0, or is it something completely different (numbered in order of

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Andy Ross
Erik Hofman wrote: JSBSim does basically the same (although there is a name allocated for it), but the real question is: Is left most defined 0, or is right mos define d0, or is it something completely different (numbered in order of appearance)? Maybe I'm confused: why do we care? The 0

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Dienstag, 6. April 2004 19:32, Erik Hofman wrote: Jon S Berndt wrote: They are not now expected to be in any particular order, nor are they given specific names. The layout is somewhat free form. A questions is, how do you set up the gear model to support animation when you may want to

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Andy Ross wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: JSBSim does basically the same (although there is a name allocated for it), but the real question is: Is left most defined 0, or is right most defined 0, or is it something completely different (numbered in order of appearance)? Maybe I'm confused: why do we

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Erik Hofman wrote: Jon S Berndt wrote: They are not now expected to be in any particular order, nor are they given specific names. The layout is somewhat free form. A questions is, how do you set up the gear model to support animation when you may want to model things as varied as a 747, a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Jon S Berndt wrote: They are not now expected to be in any particular order, nor are they given specific names. The layout is somewhat free form. A questions is, how do you set up the gear model to support animation when you may want to model things as varied as a 747, a C-172, a P-51D, a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Dienstag, 6. April 2004 19:41, Erik Hofman wrote: Thinking about it again I think the solutions (for JSBSim) is quite simple, use the name of the entry (in lower letters) to define the gear: Good idea. Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:41:08 +0200 Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /gear/nose /gear/l_main /gear/r_main /gear/tail_skid /gear/left_top /gear/right_tip The only change might be that YASim should allow for defining named gear locations. Erik I don't know anything about how the 3D animation

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Tony Peden
--- Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: Jon S Berndt wrote: They are not now expected to be in any particular order, nor are they given specific names. The layout is somewhat free form. A questions is, how do you set up the gear model to support animation when

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon S Berndt said: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:58:03 +0200 Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JSBSim does basically the same (although there is a name allocated for it), but the real question is: Is left most defined 0, or is right mos define d0, or is it something completely different

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:05:30 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe adding the text description in the gear/gear[n] path (the NOSE, L_MAIN, R_MAIN, etc) might help someone trying to figure out which was which. But of course they could just look at the config file and count (e.g. R_MAIN

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Tony Peden wrote: --- Erik Hofman wrote: /gear/nose /gear/l_main /gear/r_main /gear/tail_skid /gear/left_top /gear/right_tip It seems like this would break down pretty quick when faced with all the variations e.g. a glider, a 172, 747, B-52, DC-10, etc. etc. Maybe to clear it up a bit, this is

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Jon S Berndt wrote: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:05:30 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe adding the text description in the gear/gear[n] path (the NOSE, L_MAIN, R_MAIN, etc) might help someone trying to figure out which was which. But of course they could just look at the config file and

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Andy Ross
Erik Hofman wrote: This way it is easy to change the YASim or the JSBSim or the animation configuration file to match each other. Fixed (non compatible numbers) don't allow for that. I'm not arguing against having names for the gear, which actually sounds kind of elegant. But it should be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Andy Ross wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: This way it is easy to change the YASim or the JSBSim or the animation configuration file to match each other. Fixed (non compatible numbers) don't allow for that. I'm not arguing against having names for the gear, which actually sounds kind of elegant. But

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon S Berndt said: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:05:30 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe adding the text description in the gear/gear[n] path (the NOSE, L_MAIN, R_MAIN, etc) might help someone trying to figure out which was which. But of course they could just look at the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Erik Hofman
Jim Wilson wrote: Keep it simple: gear[0], gear[1], gear[2] ...same order as listed in the FDM config. Your idea of simple is different then mine. Most of the time I know the names I've given objects for 3d animations, I never seem to remember the order in which I put them in the file ...

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jim Wilson
Erik Hofman said: Jim Wilson wrote: Keep it simple: gear[0], gear[1], gear[2] ...same order as listed in the FDM config. Your idea of simple is different then mine. Most of the time I know the names I've given objects for 3d animations, I never seem to remember the order in which

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Mathias Frhlich
On Dienstag, 6. April 2004 21:16, Jim Wilson wrote: Yep. It just depends on how your brain is organized I think :-) Using names you can also name it gear0, gear1 ... But using numbers you are fixed to remembering how you configured ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Frhlich, email:

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:16:18 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Hofman said: Your idea of simple is different then mine. Most of the time I know the names I've given objects for 3d animations, I never seem to rememberthe order in which I put them in the file ... Yep. It just

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-06 Thread Lee Elliott
On Tuesday 06 April 2004 20:25, Jon S Berndt wrote: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:16:18 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Hofman said: Your idea of simple is different then mine. Most of the time I know the names I've given objects for 3d animations, I never seem to rememberthe

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Frhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 05:30, Jim Wilson wrote: We should also pick a coordinate origin to report it relative to. If JSBSim is using the (moving) c.g., then we're both bugged. :) Umm...I think it's all the same isn't it? It isn't like the ground is going to move under the FDM's

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 03:02, Andy Ross wrote: I'm happy to dumb down the existing AGL property, but we should pick a new name for the gear altitude property, which is IMHO a much more interesting value. To me there arises the question which gear do you take for this? The nose gear for

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Erik Hofman
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: We should also pick a coordinate origin to report it relative to. If JSBSim is using the (moving) c.g., then we're both bugged. :) Yep you are right, on my list of improvements to JSBSim there is a 'sensor location' config option. Not really thought about this in deep

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Erik Hofman
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: On Montag, 5. April 2004 10:47, Erik Hofman wrote: Folks, I might be far off here since I'm not a real pilot, but ... Me too, so I am off too ... Doesn't the fact that one has to adjust the altitude to match the real one eliminate the problem? In that case the sensor can

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 10:47, Erik Hofman wrote: Folks, I might be far off here since I'm not a real pilot, but ... Me too, so I am off too ... Doesn't the fact that one has to adjust the altitude to match the real one eliminate the problem? In that case the sensor can be at CG or at the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 11:05, Erik Hofman wrote: Prior to takeoff you have to sync your altitude with the ones provided by ATC. But in fact you synchronize the altitude of the sensor with the one provided by ATC. So if ATC says you're at 120 foot, you set the altitude of the sensor to

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Mathias Fröhlich said: On Montag, 5. April 2004 05:30, Jim Wilson wrote: We should also pick a coordinate origin to report it relative to. If JSBSim is using the (moving) c.g., then we're both bugged. :) Umm...I think it's all the same isn't it? It isn't like the ground is going to

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Mathias Fröhlich said: On Montag, 5. April 2004 03:02, Andy Ross wrote: I'm happy to dumb down the existing AGL property, but we should pick a new name for the gear altitude property, which is IMHO a much more interesting value. To me there arises the question which gear do you take for

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Frhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 14:10, Jim Wilson wrote: Mathias Frhlich said: On Montag, 5. April 2004 05:30, Jim Wilson wrote: We should also pick a coordinate origin to report it relative to. If JSBSim is using the (moving) c.g., then we're both bugged. :) Umm...I think it's all the

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jon Berndt
I may be a little slow (monday morning here), but that does not tell me anything. We are talking about agl not the center of gravity. Is that the confusion? I'm not sure, but let me jump in here with a somewhat related comment. Like I've said before, the FDM naturally solves the rigid body

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Frhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 14:12, Jim Wilson wrote: This sounds like it might be excessive. We should continue to model instrumentation in flightgear. Fine. Nothing more on this is needed from the FDM (we should only be translating to sensor points _if_ the particular aircraft models the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Mathias Fröhlich said: On Montag, 5. April 2004 14:10, Jim Wilson wrote: Mathias Fröhlich said: On Montag, 5. April 2004 05:30, Jim Wilson wrote: We should also pick a coordinate origin to report it relative to. If JSBSim is using the (moving) c.g., then we're both bugged. :)

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
--- Jon Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I may be a little slow (monday morning here), but that does not tell me anything. We are talking about agl not the center of gravity. Is that the confusion? I'm not sure, but let me jump in here with a somewhat related comment. Like I've said

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jon Berndt
Jon wrote: For trimming on-ground the AGL value needs to be iterated on until the lowest point of the aircraft has a positive AGL value. Tony replied: Not really. Trimming iterates on altitude and theta until the landing gear are deflected just the right amount to hold the aircraft up.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
--- Mathias Fröhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Montag, 5. April 2004 14:12, Jim Wilson wrote: This sounds like it might be excessive. We should continue to model instrumentation in flightgear. Fine. Nothing more on this is needed from the FDM (we should only be translating to

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 16:02, Tony Peden wrote: The trimming routine is not the problem. Hey, it is not. The problem is that JSBSim relys on a property which is set in a different way on start than on reset time. This property changes the 'trimming type' which is used for trimming. So we need

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 16:29, Gene Buckle wrote: black box. As such, it is no different than any other piece of code: GIGO. Just for curiosity: What is GIGO? Garbage In, Garbage Out. Thanks. I did not know this one ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email:

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
--- Mathias Fröhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Montag, 5. April 2004 16:02, Tony Peden wrote: The trimming routine is not the problem. Hey, it is not. The problem is that JSBSim relys on a property which is set in a different way on start than on reset time. This property changes the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 16:26, Tony Peden wrote: --- Mathias Fröhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Montag, 5. April 2004 16:02, Tony Peden wrote: The trimming routine is not the problem. Hey, it is not. The problem is that JSBSim relys on a property which is set in a different way on

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Gene Buckle
black box. As such, it is no different than any other piece of code: GIGO. Just for curiosity: What is GIGO? Garbage In, Garbage Out. g. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Tony Peden said: The trimming routine is not the problem. Jim W. said it himself, the behavior changes when - is set as the altitude. Well, the only place such logic exists is in src/Main, not src/FDM. I think eyeballs need to be directed that way. Furthermore, nothing regarding

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:47:11 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What JSBSim does that YASim does not is if the aircraft is a little too close to the ground at initialization JSBSim hurls the thing up in the air. Why is it that only JSBSim reacts by flipping over the Cessna? What does

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
--- Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony Peden said: The trimming routine is not the problem. Jim W. said it himself, the behavior changes when - is set as the altitude. Well, the only place such logic exists is in src/Main, not src/FDM. I think eyeballs need to be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Curtis L. Olson
Mathias Frhlich wrote: Yes, this is my question. I also think that this /sim/presets directory should be either built up to the idea someone noted in this thread before or should be removed. That way noone can rely on stuff not really maintained ... The /sim/presets/ stuff is being

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Frhlich
On Montag, 5. April 2004 17:45, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Mathias Frhlich wrote: Yes, this is my question. I also think that this /sim/presets directory should be either built up to the idea someone noted in this thread before or should be removed. That way noone can rely on stuff not really

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Andy Ross
Jim Wilson wrote: What JSBSim does that YASim does not is if the aircraft is a little too close to the ground at initialization JSBSim hurls the thing up in the air. Why is it that only JSBSim reacts by flipping over the Cessna? YASim does something similar though: it doesn't have a trimming

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Andy Ross
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: To me there arises the question which gear do you take for this? The nose gear for example will have a different agl then any other gear depending on the orientation of the aircraft. The lowest one. That's obviously smarter than a real sensor would be, but that's fine

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Andy Ross said: Jim Wilson wrote: What JSBSim does that YASim does not is if the aircraft is a little too close to the ground at initialization JSBSim hurls the thing up in the air. Why is it that only JSBSim reacts by flipping over the Cessna? YASim does something similar though: it

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
--- Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy Ross said: Jim Wilson wrote: What JSBSim does that YASim does not is if the aircraft is a little too close to the ground at initialization JSBSim hurls the thing up in the air. Why is it that only JSBSim reacts by flipping over the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But will we ever know why JSBSim needs to do flip over the 172? :-) Bad data. On the part of ... ? Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon S Berndt said: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But will we ever know why JSBSim needs to do flip over the 172? :-) Bad data. On the part of ... ? It must be something Tony did ;-) Best,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Mathias Frhlich
The onground property is now ok. You can reset now JSBSim aircraft. Thanks for the fix! Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Frhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:15:42 +0200 Mathias Frhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The onground property is now ok. You can reset now JSBSim aircraft. Thanks for the fix! ?? Was it bad data? Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread David Culp
Bad data. On the part of ... ? I'll attempt an explanation. If I'm wrong maybe Tony can add two words. OK, one and a half. 1) A JSBSim airplane can only be placed on the ground after going through an iterative routine to lower it and adjust it's body angle to balance-out the forces at

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon S Berndt said: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:15:42 +0200 Mathias Fröhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The onground property is now ok. You can reset now JSBSim aircraft. Thanks for the fix! ?? Was it bad data? All that was bad was a flag caused the trim routine to be called or not

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jon S Berndt
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:04:16 - Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon S Berndt said: ?? Was it bad data? I think, that maybe this could be resolved by doing as Andy described earlier. In other words know where the gear is and get it above the pavement (ground elevation) before the

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 07:01, Jon Berndt wrote: Jon wrote: For trimming on-ground the AGL value needs to be iterated on until the lowest point of the aircraft has a positive AGL value. Tony replied: Not really. Trimming iterates on altitude and theta until the landing gear are

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 16:04, Jim Wilson wrote: Jon S Berndt said: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:15:42 +0200 Mathias Fröhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The onground property is now ok. You can reset now JSBSim aircraft. Thanks for the fix! ?? Was it bad data? All that

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 14:30, David Culp wrote: Bad data. On the part of ... ? I'll attempt an explanation. If I'm wrong maybe Tony can add two words. OK, one and a half. 1) A JSBSim airplane can only be placed on the ground after going through an iterative routine to lower it

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 07:32, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: On Montag, 5. April 2004 16:26, Tony Peden wrote: --- Mathias Fröhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Montag, 5. April 2004 16:02, Tony Peden wrote: The trimming routine is not the problem. Hey, it is not. The problem is that JSBSim

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Tony Peden
On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 01:23, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: On Montag, 5. April 2004 03:02, Andy Ross wrote: I'm happy to dumb down the existing AGL property, but we should pick a new name for the gear altitude property, which is IMHO a much more interesting value. To me there arises the question

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jim Wilson
Tony Peden said: On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 16:04, Jim Wilson wrote: Jon S Berndt said: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:15:42 +0200 Mathias Fröhlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The onground property is now ok. You can reset now JSBSim aircraft. Thanks for the fix! ??

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-05 Thread Jon Berndt
Thanks for the explanation. This does more than I originally thought. Would some sanity checks at the JSBSim.cxx level help? I'm not sure what they would be, other than the one mentioned before (that relates to this latest bug): make sure we have wheels above the ground. To test that

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Jim Wilson
Mathias Fröhlich said: Well, my first guesses were wrong, but I have found what JSBSim does now: The code in question is in FGJSBSim::do_trim(): if ( fgGetBool(/sim/presets/onground) ) { fgic-SetVcalibratedKtsIC(0.0); fgtrim = new FGTrim(fdmex,tGround); } else {

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Jim Wilson
Jon Berndt said: So what happens is that on reset, the ground elevation gets plugged into the FDM as a starting altitude, and the altitude is then too low (by a few to several feet depending on the aircraft). I'm thinking that one thing which *could* play into a solution is measuring

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Mathias Frhlich
On Sonntag, 4. April 2004 17:49, Jim Wilson wrote: Mathias Frhlich said: Well, my first guesses were wrong, but I have found what JSBSim does now: The code in question is in FGJSBSim::do_trim(): if ( fgGetBool(/sim/presets/onground) ) { fgic-SetVcalibratedKtsIC(0.0);

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Mathias Frhlich
On Sonntag, 4. April 2004 17:59, Jim Wilson wrote: In any case, the VRP values in the config do not affect the output of the FDM, right? Right. I have found that this essential change has sliped through. It is in my queue to Jon. I guess it will not get lost ... As far as this problem is

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Jim Wilson
Jim Wilson said: Mathias Fröhlich said: Well, my first guesses were wrong, but I have found what JSBSim does now: The code in question is in FGJSBSim::do_trim(): if ( fgGetBool(/sim/presets/onground) ) { fgic-SetVcalibratedKtsIC(0.0); fgtrim = new

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Andy Ross
Jim Wilson wrote: One thing I noticed is the altitude-agl is reported at the gear level by YASim, where JSBSim reports the distance of the nose above the ground. I'm not sure one is better than the other, but perhaps this should be standardized. I interpreted the agl level as a cooked

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Jim Wilson
Andy Ross said: Jim Wilson wrote: One thing I noticed is the altitude-agl is reported at the gear level by YASim, where JSBSim reports the distance of the nose above the ground. I'm not sure one is better than the other, but perhaps this should be standardized. I interpreted the agl

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Andy Ross
Jim Wilson wrote: My understanding is the agl should simply be the fdm's altitude-ft less the ground elevation-ft directly under the aircraft. I'm not sure by your response if you are aware that the agl in altitude-agl is above ground level. Of course. But the agl definition you posit is

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-04 Thread Jim Wilson
Andy Ross said: Jim Wilson wrote: My understanding is the agl should simply be the fdm's altitude-ft less the ground elevation-ft directly under the aircraft. I'm not sure by your response if you are aware that the agl in altitude-agl is above ground level. Of course. But the agl

[Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-03 Thread Jim Wilson
Hi Jon, Well I've found that the if the /sim/preset/altitude-ft is set to - then the trimming works normally. This property is set by no less than three different functions now and there are a few others that have commented out code for setting this preset. On the surface this whole presets

RE: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-03 Thread Jon Berndt
So what happens is that on reset, the ground elevation gets plugged into the FDM as a starting altitude, and the altitude is then too low (by a few to several feet depending on the aircraft). I'm thinking that one thing which *could* play into a solution is measuring the Z distance between

Re: [Flightgear-devel] More on JSBSim ground trimming issue

2004-04-03 Thread Mathias Frhlich
Well, my first guesses were wrong, but I have found what JSBSim does now: The code in question is in FGJSBSim::do_trim(): if ( fgGetBool(/sim/presets/onground) ) { fgic-SetVcalibratedKtsIC(0.0); fgtrim = new FGTrim(fdmex,tGround); } else { fgtrim = new