Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread C. Michailidis
On Sunday 28 August 2005 11:37 pm, you wrote: I don't really understand what you're so worked up about: if you don't like the defaults, don't use them. Come on now, Dave. I know that you don't really mean this. You are not a zombie, are you? After all, 'like' is an analog, subjective term.

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread C. Michailidis
On Sunday 28 August 2005 11:57 pm, you wrote: For anything over a 9gb disk, I just make one big / partition. If you sub partition, you'll always end up filling one (either /var or /tmp quickly or /usr eventually) and wish you had picked different sizes. This is a very straight-forward way

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Colin Percival
C. Michailidis wrote: Remember, I'm talking about the 'path of least resistance', I understand that I could label the slice manually with any number of different configurations. The issue I was hoping to shed some light on is... Can the auto-configuration mechanism stand to be improved?. Is it

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Jon Dama
yes, that's quite generous. why isn't /tmp just an mfs mount though? On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Colin Percival wrote: C. Michailidis wrote: Remember, I'm talking about the 'path of least resistance', I understand that I could label the slice manually with any number of different

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Joel Rees
On 平成 17/08/29, at 12:30, C. Michailidis wrote: [...] I understand that the automatically generated values by sysinstall are the dumbest settings you can ask for... but auto-allocating a maximum of 256mb for the root, var, and tmp filesystems (even if you have an incredibly large slice

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Chuck Swiger
Jon Dama wrote: yes, that's quite generous. why isn't /tmp just an mfs mount though? While I like that suggestion personally, some people get perturbed about files in /tmp going away if the power fails or you reboot. -- -Chuck ___

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Mark Kirkwood
C. Michailidis wrote: This is a very straight-forward way of doing things. Do you really think that sysinstall should use a similar method when it attempts to auto-configure a slice? From what I understand there are quite valid reasons why you would want a seperate /, /var, /tmp, and /usr.

Re: 6.0 and -O2 option

2005-08-29 Thread Norberto Meijome
Rene Ladan wrote: On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 04:30:19PM +0400, Boris Samorodov wrote: Hi! As for 5.x notes about -O2 (libalias, gcc) were removed at revision 1.229.2.7 of /usr/src/share/examples/etc/make.conf. But for 6.0-BETA3 we do have these warnings. Should they be removed as for 5.x? Is it

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Jon Dama
Um, that they may be but... I was under the impression (mistaken?) that /tmp is a directory defined under the POSIX standard and is in fact supposed to be flushed in those cases, and that /var/tmp is to be used for programs desiring persistant storage across shutdowns (scheduled and unscheduled).

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread C. Michailidis
On Monday 29 August 2005 02:23 am, Colin Percival wrote: The default sizes are now currently 512 MB for / and /tmp, and 1024 MB plus space for one crashdump on /var. If anything, these are vast overkill for most systems; on /, for example, it is hard to imagine a situation where a normal

RE: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Darren Pilgrim
From: C. Michailidis [sysinstall FS sizing defaults] ... Isn't it safe to make some of the default sizes a wee bit larger? That is, a 256mb /tmp and /var doesn't seem appropriate if you have one of these massive modern disk drives. For christ's sake, I'd gladly give up a GB or two of

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread C. Michailidis
On Monday 29 August 2005 02:51 am, you wrote: The handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/disk-organization.html) has quite a sensible discussion about this: I knew that there was a reason I liked using sysinstall's automatic filesystem generation feature :-)

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Mark Kirkwood wrote: FreeBSD's filesystems are very robust should you lose power. This sentence is completely bogus (or at best: wishful thinking) and should be deleted. mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread C. Michailidis
On Monday 29 August 2005 04:24 am, you wrote: Probably, but a template for something like this isn't simple unless it's created as part of a general profile-based installer that would inform sysinstall of the machine's purpose in life. For example, a Sure, I can understand this perfectly.

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
C. Michailidis wrote: Effectively, we are taking a known variable that may fluctuate greatly (disk size) and completely ignoring it during installation. Pretty dumb, no? Obviously, this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Take it to an extreme and maybe I can convert you to my team. Imagine

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Mark Kirkwood
Matthias Buelow wrote: Mark Kirkwood wrote: FreeBSD's filesystems are very robust should you lose power. This sentence is completely bogus (or at best: wishful thinking) and should be deleted. It's probably correct if you have hw.ata.wc=0 (and are using IDE drives obviously).

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Mark Kirkwood wrote: FreeBSD's filesystems are very robust should you lose power. This sentence is completely bogus (or at best: wishful thinking) and should be deleted. It's probably correct if you have hw.ata.wc=0 (and are using IDE drives obviously). I'd like to stress the probably. I've

Incorrect super block--help!

2005-08-29 Thread Mark Space
Hey, newb BSDer here with a question I've got a brand new 5.4 install. I'm trying to mount the CDROM. As root, I type: mount /dev/acd0 /cdrom and I get incorrect super block error message after a bit of CD activity, and no mount. I've tried a CD-RW I burned (the FreeBSD install disk I

Re: Incorrect super block--help!

2005-08-29 Thread Paul T. Root
You're trying to mount it as a rw disc and as a UFS file system mount -r -t cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom Mark Space wrote: Hey, newb BSDer here with a question I've got a brand new 5.4 install. I'm trying to mount the CDROM. As root, I type: mount /dev/acd0 /cdrom and I get incorrect super

Re: Incorrect super block--help!

2005-08-29 Thread freebsd-stable
Hey, newb BSDer here with a question I've got a brand new 5.4 install. I'm trying to mount the CDROM. As root, I type: mount /dev/acd0 /cdrom and I get incorrect super block error message after a bit of CD activity, and no mount. I've tried a CD-RW I burned (the FreeBSD install

Re: Incorrect super block--help!

2005-08-29 Thread Scott Robbins
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 10:16:54PM +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, newb BSDer here with a question I've got a brand new 5.4 install. I'm trying to mount the CDROM. As root, I type: mount /dev/acd0 /cdrom and I get incorrect

Re: Incorrect super block--help!

2005-08-29 Thread freebsd-stable
You're trying to mount it as a rw disc and as a UFS file system mount -r -t cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom Mark Space wrote: Hey, newb BSDer here with a question I've got a brand new 5.4 install. I'm trying to mount the CDROM. As root, I type: mount /dev/acd0 /cdrom Of course,

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Don Lewis
On 29 Aug, Matthias Buelow wrote: Mark Kirkwood wrote: FreeBSD's filesystems are very robust should you lose power. This sentence is completely bogus (or at best: wishful thinking) and should be deleted. It's probably correct if you have hw.ata.wc=0 (and are using IDE drives obviously). I'd

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Don Lewis wrote: I'd like to stress the probably. I've already seen unrepairable filesystem corruption with softupdates enabled in the past with good scsi disks at power loss. Did you remember to disable write caching by setting the WCE mode page bit to zero? At least with SCSI, it doesn't

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Chuck Swiger
Matthias Buelow wrote: Don Lewis wrote: [ ... ] Did you remember to disable write caching by setting the WCE mode page bit to zero? At least with SCSI, it doesn't seem to affect performance under most workloads. No.. I thought that with SCSI it is ok to leave the cache enabled because SCSI

6.0-BETA3 nfs mount of 5.3 hangs

2005-08-29 Thread Julian Stacey
Since I upgraded my laptop from 5.3 to 6.0-BETA3 it's doing a lot of hangs on NFS in both directions. Anyone else noticing this ? The laptop is OK when running a 5.3 partition. I'm running AMD on all hosts. I'm about to run mergemaster -sicv to upgrade my /etc from 5.3 to 6.0-BETA3, meanwhile

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Don Lewis
On 29 Aug, Matthias Buelow wrote: Don Lewis wrote: I'd like to stress the probably. I've already seen unrepairable filesystem corruption with softupdates enabled in the past with good scsi disks at power loss. Did you remember to disable write caching by setting the WCE mode page bit to

FreeBSD 6.0-BETA3 Available

2005-08-29 Thread Ken Smith
[ Sorry - I could have sworn I sent this earlier... ] Announcement The FreeBSD Release Engineering Team is pleased to announce the availability of FreeBSD 6.0-BETA3. This BETA includes a full set of packages for amd64 and i386 architectures. Alpha has no packages, sparc64 has

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Chuck Swiger wrote: PS: Haven't we had this conversation before? Yes, indeed, and I don't want to reopen that issue since that would lead to no new insights (and since I don't have the time atm. to contribute anything I couldn't provide any stuff myself). I was just refuting the claim of very

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Chuck Swiger
Matthias Buelow wrote: Chuck Swiger wrote: PS: Haven't we had this conversation before? Yes, indeed, and I don't want to reopen that issue since that would lead to no new insights (and since I don't have the time atm. to contribute anything I couldn't provide any stuff myself). Yet you seem

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread J. T. Farmer
Chuck Swiger wrote: Matthias Buelow wrote: Chuck Swiger wrote: PS: Haven't we had this conversation before? Yes, indeed, and I don't want to reopen that issue since that would lead to no new insights (and since I don't have the time atm. to contribute anything I couldn't provide any

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Chuck Swiger
J. T. Farmer wrote: Chuck Swiger wrote: Matthias Buelow wrote: Yes, indeed, and I don't want to reopen that issue since that would lead to no new insights (and since I don't have the time atm. to contribute anything I couldn't provide any stuff myself). Yet you seem willing to spend time

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Chuck Swiger wrote: Yet you seem willing to spend time discussing the matter...? Because it's somewhat of my pet peeve and I always see the mantra-like repetition of the argument that you have to disable the write-back cache if you want any safety at all, which is a) extremely disadvantageous

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Chuck Swiger
Matthias Buelow wrote: Chuck Swiger wrote: Yet you seem willing to spend time discussing the matter...? Because it's somewhat of my pet peeve and I always see the mantra-like repetition of the argument that you have to disable the write-back cache if you want any safety at all, No, there

Re: pcap and gig speeds.

2005-08-29 Thread Dan Nelson
In the last episode (Aug 26), Jason said: We are planning on updating a number of old machines, being used as IDS sensors, and in the past, there has been a known issue regarding gig speeds and pcap with regards to snort. Do you have an URL referring to the issue? As long as your pcap buffers

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Chuck Swiger wrote: I reiterate my question: have you tried adjusting the syncer sysctl's and seeing whether FreeBSD is more stable in the event of a power failure? No, simply because I have no machine at the moment for experimenting if it takes longer until it eats its filesystem. Besides, as

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Mark Kirkwood
Matthias Buelow wrote: (snippage...) I was merely pointing out the inadequacy of talking about robust filesystems in the context of softupdates and end-consumer harddrives. Would you be happy if the handbook section added a caution, or referred to the section that discusses the write cache?

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Jon Dama
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Mark Kirkwood wrote: (FWIW - I have seen Linux + ext3 systems destroyed by power failure because the admins refused to disable write caching on ATA drives - Neither journelling or softupdates is much help if the HW is kidding you about write acknowledgment). This would

Re: 6.0 and -O2 option

2005-08-29 Thread Robert Backhaus
Kernel and world seem to be ok with -O2, for ports it is not advised. Hi, I may have missed a thread or something (just let me know :) ) - why is -O2 not advised for ports on 6.0? cheers, Beto Simply because not every port works with -O2 optimisations. It caused bad code in some

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Mark Kirkwood wrote: Would you be happy if the handbook section added a caution, or referred to the section that discusses the write cache? Yes, that would inform the user. (FWIW - I have seen Linux + ext3 systems destroyed by power failure because the admins refused to disable write caching

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Matthias Buelow
Jon Dama wrote: Ironically, phk backed out the underlying support for this safety fix from the FreeBSD kernel b.c. it wasn't integrated into the softupdates code whereas in reality the proper course of action would have been to hook it in. :-/ Can it be put into softupdates at all? From what I

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Paul Mather
On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 03:11 +0200, Matthias Buelow wrote: BTW., when have you last seen a broken NTFS? While I don't do Windows much, I have had quite a few crashes on Windows (2000, XP) over the years on various machines, and I always asked myself how it could be that the system is up almost

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Mark Kirkwood
Matthias Buelow wrote: From what I understand from googling around on that issue, the write-barrier stuff should make that much more unlikely. Of course there could be the situation that it was a kernel that did not (properly) support write-barriers yet, or the Linux implementation has/had

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Jon Dama
Well, I think one issue is that it destroys one of the fundamental advantages of softupdates which was that you could interleave streams of strongly ordered metadata writes without demanding a sequence for the streams collectively. By using request barriers, you are effectively forcing an

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Don Lewis
On 30 Aug, Matthias Buelow wrote: Jon Dama wrote: Ironically, phk backed out the underlying support for this safety fix from the FreeBSD kernel b.c. it wasn't integrated into the softupdates code whereas in reality the proper course of action would have been to hook it in. :-/ Can it be

Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation.

2005-08-29 Thread Don Lewis
On 29 Aug, Jon Dama wrote: It seems you need to add a layer of indirection. (owing to biodone being called merely when the drive has cached the request). What you know is that those operations marked completed by biodone are in fact done only after a (costly) flush cache operation is

Re: 5-STABLE cpufreq hotter than est from ports

2005-08-29 Thread Nate Lawson
Tijl Coosemans wrote: A couple days ago I updated my system and was excited to see cpufreq and powerd in 5-stable. Since then however I noticed that my laptop temperature is about 5°C higher than with est and estctrl. I found that cpufreq when setting 200MHz for example set the absolute