Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Jim Hall [01.05.2021 23:00]: > BTW, if anyone is interested in troff (or variants) there's an > interesting history in Brian Kernighan's book, "Unix: A History and a > Memoir." It starts on page 98. In brief: Anyone remotely interested in the history of Unix must read this book. -- Hilsen Harald

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Thank you, Jim for this overview on roff - groff. And, by the way, if someone is about music typesetting, check out http://lilypond.org/ which is kind-of-similar to *roff but for music. The score can be written as code on FreeDOS with any text editor ;-) -Thomas > On Sat,20210501- week17, at

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

> On 4/25/2021 10:43 PM, TK Chia wrote: [..] > > troff (as groff) is still very much alive today, as far as I can tell. > > And the troff format is still the default source format for man pages on > > Linux. It is quite a good format for the job, if you ask me. On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 1:54 AM Ral

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

> On 4/22/2021 3:21 AM, Thomas Desi wrote: > > There are many different reasons why people would want to install FreeDOS > > (if they get to know it). > > „ Different" like in „different people“. The needs and equipments are > > different and the mixture of technical generations > > should not re

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Yes, Andrew: The "snapback" I see for example (?) to earlier-era ethos by way of typewriters is echoed in the newer generation who realise the delight of using ancient (for example, IBM) *mechanical* keyboards over the standard bubblewrap that is marketed with modern, built-to-self-destruct c

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Ralf, yes, efficiency might even be something or personal preference, I am not sure. I am fiddling with a „made-to-measure“ keyboard and stuff to get a single task system for me with mouse/foot-pedal and dedicated keys woven together, using non proprietory software („FreeDOS“ instead of Window

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Sorry - lurking, but my 2c briefly: there's a lot to be said for the self-satisfying, validating feeling of actually physically handcrafting your thoughts for contribution to the broader society as a whole. Whether those efforts actually makes an impact on that society... well, does that really

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 2:45 AM Thomas Desi wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > yes, the roff-troff-groff (sounds like barking?) story reminds me in >some way to FreeDos. > > Compared to LaTex (or Tex), groff is so much leaner and easier. It >is still well maintained and usable. > > It allows output to html, t

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 11:43 PM Bryan Kilgallin wrote: > > Thanks, Jim: > > > I also write a lot of tech articles in raw HTML. I use HTML when I > > can't get the formatting I want through other means. What I like about > > using HTML5 is the semantic code, so the tags hold some meaning. > > I cu

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 at 10:03, Thomas Desi wrote: > > Hi Liam, > > maybe this is not the place to ask, but, vDOS looks nice. Strangely it can > not run the »Eve.exe«. > (Neither does DOSbox). Funny. Only FreeDOS allows. Might be a video issue. I am not sure why you are replying to me, as I did no

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi Liam, maybe this is not the place to ask, but, vDOS looks nice. Strangely it can not run the »Eve.exe«. (Neither does DOSbox). Funny. Only FreeDOS allows. Might be a video issue. regards, Thomas > On Mon,20210426- week17, at 18:59, Liam Proven wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 06:01, Ral

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi Jim, yes, the roff-troff-groff (sounds like barking?) story reminds me in some way to FreeDos. Compared to LaTex (or Tex), groff is so much leaner and easier. It is still well maintained and usable. It allows output to html, text, ps, pdf… and regarding typsetting hardly anything coming near

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Dear Liam: Under Linux, I used "manuskript" to write a memoir. Interesting -- thanks, that's a new one to me. I have had a very brief play -- it crashes in seconds on macOS which I happen to be using at this moment -- but it looks like it has a lot of extra functionality I'd not need -- charac

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Thanks, Jim: I also write a lot of tech articles in raw HTML. I use HTML when I can't get the formatting I want through other means. What I like about using HTML5 is the semantic code, so the tags hold some meaning. I currently use table and td. What is preferable about aside, figure and figc

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 23:47, Jim Hall wrote: > These days, my favorite DOS word processor is Microsoft Word for DOS. > Microsoft released a copy for free on their download.microsoft.com > website. It feels quite modern compared to today's word processors. > The key combinations that you just "as

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 19:57, Bryan Kilgallin wrote: > > Under Linux, I used "manuskript" to write a memoir. Interesting -- thanks, that's a new one to me. I have had a very brief play -- it crashes in seconds on macOS which I happen to be using at this moment -- but it looks like it has a lot of

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 12:45 AM TK Chia wrote: > > Hello Ralf, > > >> Still an excellent tool I consider TROFF, now GROFF, for Unix/Linux > >> -which also exists for Windows, appeared in 1990 (Version 0.3.1) by > >> James Clark) coming from “a text-formatting program called RUNOFF, > >> which wa

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 19:33, Thomas Desi wrote: > > Interesting! > Some „folding“, like in VIM (zf) and others could be used as „outliner“. Folding is not the same thing, although it is one small element of what an outliner does. > http://www.outliners.com/is unfortunately a 404 (April 26

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Liam: As a journalist and freelance tech writer, I mostly worked in an outliner. http://www.outliners.com/ That should be "http://outliners.scripting.com/";. Sadly there is nothing else like its outliner any more. Under Linux, I used "manuskript" to write a memoir. -- members.iinet.net.au

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Interesting! Some „folding“, like in VIM (zf) and others could be used as „outliner“. http://www.outliners.com/ is unfortunately a 404 (April 26, 2021,19:29) I will give https://www.vdos.info/download.html a try if I can run

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 06:01, Ralf Quint wrote: > I am not sure if that is any more efficient for at least 99.99% of all > use cases then using LibreOfiice/OpenOffice Writer, Microsoft Word or > WordPerfect on Windows or Linux GUI based systems. It depends what you want or need. In my day job a

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On 4/25/2021 10:43 PM, TK Chia wrote: Hello Ralf, Still an excellent tool I consider TROFF, now GROFF, for Unix/Linux -which also exists for Windows, appeared in 1990 (Version 0.3.1) by James Clark) coming from  “a text-formatting program called RUNOFF, which was written by Jerome H. Saltzer fo

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hello Ralf, Still an excellent tool I consider TROFF, now GROFF, for Unix/Linux -which also exists for Windows, appeared in 1990 (Version 0.3.1) by James Clark) coming from  “a text-formatting program called RUNOFF, which was written by Jerome H. Saltzer for MIT's CTSS operating system in the mi

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On 4/23/2021 1:44 PM, Thomas Desi wrote: Hi Ralf, good to focus on the “whys”. You said: | “Nor would I do any graphics work in DOS, or any word | processing these days.” I did get into DOS because of “word processing”. More precisely it is a text-processing tool(!) EVA.EXE which was develop

[Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi Ralf, good to focus on the “whys”. You said: | “Nor would I do any graphics work in DOS, or any word | processing these days.” I did get into DOS because of “word processing”. More precisely it is a text-processing tool(!) EVA.EXE which was developed by Primož Jakopin in the 1970ies and

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi Ralf, good to focus on the “whys”. You said: | “Nor would I do any graphics work in DOS, or any word | processing these days.” I did get into DOS because of “word processing”. More precisely it is a text-processing tool(!) EVA.EXE which was developed by Primož Jakopin in the 1970ies and

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi Thomas: There are many different reasons why people would want to install FreeDOS (if they get to know it). I had given up with DOS emulation in Linux. As I was unable to get an old serial peripheral working via USB. Then I had the use of an old 32-bit PC, and it had a serial port! So I

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On 4/22/2021 3:21 AM, Thomas Desi wrote: There are many different reasons why people would want to install FreeDOS (if they get to know it). „ Different" like in „different people“. The needs and equipments are different and the mixture of technical generations should not restrain FreeDOS, IMHO

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

> On Apr 22, 2021, at 4:18 AM, Bryan Kilgallin wrote: > > Thanks, Jerome: > > Thanks for your efforts. Your welcome Thanks :-) Jerome ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

There are many different reasons why people would want to install FreeDOS (if they get to know it). „ Different" like in „different people“. The needs and equipments are different and the mixture of technical generations should not restrain FreeDOS, IMHO, to „retro computing“ and nostalgia only.

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Thanks, Jerome: Thanks for your efforts. I agree that there should be documentation about how the install process works which can help you to push it a bit when it gets stuck at some point. Of course the documents should be available online, also outside the install disk. Better documentation

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On 4/19/2021 4:41 AM, Thomas Desi wrote: On Sun,20210418- week15, at 22:33, Ralf Quint > wrote: expect that you don't have to do a few things in a more manual way This is correct; but it is for me also a learning process (=read: discovery etc.) in learning how

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 19:53, Tomas By wrote: > > > Just a comment, Open Genera 2.0 (not tried it): > > https://archive.org/details/OpenGenera It is an absolutely fascinating OS and an important piece of history, but it's not freeware or FOSS, it's not a native x86 OS and must run on an emulator,

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hello Liam, This is indeed interesting --- an OS that is fast and light, and knows at least a few things about modern (21st-century) hardware and software standards. There are a _lot_ of choices out there that are not as bloated as modern Linux tends to be, and not super-simple and limited li

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 19:39:00 +0200, Liam Proven wrote: > [...] I wrote an article for the Register about a decade back with 25 > alternative OSes for x86 machines > https://www.theregister.com/Print/2013/11/01/25_alternative_pc_operating_systems/ Just a comment, Open Genera 2.0 (not tried it): h

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 19:06, TK Chia wrote: > > This is indeed interesting --- an OS that is fast and light, and knows > at least a few things about modern (21st-century) hardware and software > standards. There are quite a few out there. I wrote an article for the Register about a decade back

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hello Eric, hello Thomas, PS: Thanks for mentioning https://kolibrios.org/de/download which supports USB (mouse, keyboard, trackpad, storage) in only 1.5 MB. Does it also support your printer and other USB devices? It does This is indeed interesting --- an OS that is fast and light, and knows

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

> On Sun,20210418- week15, at 22:33, Ralf Quint wrote: > > expect that you don't have to do a few things in a more manual way This is correct; but it is for me also a learning process (=read: discovery etc.) in learning how the tools work technicall, more then we are used in the current con

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On Sun,20210418- week15, at 21:01, Eric Auer wrote: > > Keep me posted about your USB driver adventures :-) will do. Some info I found here: http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm -Th___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lis

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Bryan Kilgallin composed on 2021-04-19 09:51 (UTC+1000): >> I define printer quality by whether it includes Epson directly or by >> emulation. I >> don't buy Epson, because it only makes inkjet printers. I buy Brother lasers >> due >> to speed, to decent Linux support, and to Epson FX-850 emulat

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On 4/18/2021 4:51 PM, Bryan Kilgallin wrote: Felix: I define printer quality by whether it includes Epson directly or by emulation. I don't buy Epson, because it only makes inkjet printers. I buy Brother lasers due to speed, to decent Linux support, and to Epson FX-850 emulation available if

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Felix: I define printer quality by whether it includes Epson directly or by emulation. I don't buy Epson, because it only makes inkjet printers. I buy Brother lasers due to speed, to decent Linux support, and to Epson FX-850 emulation available if spending a bit more than bottom of the line.

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Eric Auer composed on 2021-04-18 12:27 (UTC+0200): > But as said, I am optimistic: CPU power is cheap today and it is, > still or again, a quality feature of printers to speak PS or PDF. I define printer quality by wh

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On 4/18/2021 8:29 AM, Thomas Desi wrote: • I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or 1.2 version (image). All of them just stopped in telling me “packages not found”. (For whatever reason. I gave up after some googleing and saw other people had encounter

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

On 4/18/2021 9:27 AM, Eric Auer wrote: Hi! I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or 1.2 version (image). There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages in terms of drive letters and 2. whether you can partition the disk to create a primary

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

> On Apr 18, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Eric Auer wrote: > [..] > I am looking forward to Jerome's next update with a tuned > driver strategy. FDISK would not help with that. RC4 is coming very very soon. The new RBE is done. Currently, testing and fixing minor issues with release media builds that we

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi Thomas, indeed A: and B: are reserved for floppy drives. The rest is for partitions found at boot and after that, drives accessed by drivers can be added. So if you do not see the USB stick after booting from harddisk, it probably just means that the USB driver does not work. As said, it can

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi Eric, thanks for the in-depth responses! Drive letters: > On Sun,20210418- week15, at 18:27, Eric Auer wrote: > > There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages > in terms of drive letters Yes, this was the problem. However, I don’t know anything technical about all t

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hello Jerome, > Without functioning support for the the CD/DVD drive, the CD should > still boot. That is not handled by a CD/DVD driver in FreeDOS. This gives you at least two possibilities: 1. Use the ELTORITO driver for BIOS-assisted access to the CD/DVD drive. It only works after booting f

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hello, > On Apr 18, 2021, at 12:27 PM, Eric Auer wrote: > > > Hi! > >> I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or >> 1.2 version (image). > > There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages > in terms of drive letters and 2. whether you can

Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

Hi! > I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or 1.2 > version (image). There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages in terms of drive letters and 2. whether you can partition the disk to create a primary LBA FAT partition, format it and mak

[Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?

FreeDOS for Dummies? (NB. This is a short sum-up of my (brief) encounter and experience with FreeDos, as from a user perspective (in contrast to a “tech” person, like a programer or computer technician etc. I like to continue my experience.) 1. I always had a prejudice agai