Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread glen ☣
Thanks for sending that. The "right to earn a profit" thing was interesting. I think it's a necessary consequence that such a large agreement, one that pert near forces people to rely on 2nd, 3rd, nth hand interpetations, will exhibit/accrue its own mythos. And that's above and beyond the m

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Owen Densmore
Listening to http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2016/08/04/election-2016-tpp-trade-nafta .. pretty diverse opinions. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://r

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread glen ☣
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt! 8^) I tend to think Sanders is best viewed as a storm trooper or, perhaps, an early adopter if you don't like the war metaphor, whereas Obama seems more like a 2nd round person. If that view works, then it should be obvious that they work best a

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Nick Thompson
Glen, Having followed you over the years, I don't think you know what a shallow answer is. It's just not in your blood. I was trying to head off cheap attributions of Obama's motives. Whatever else one may say about Obama, I think he thinks hard about stuff, as does Sanders. So how do th

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Nick Thompson
I assume you have all followed the story about copyright trolls … people who buy up vaguely written old patents and then hold up new technology companies for violating them.See http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/transcript N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread glen ☣
The idea that "free" markets (well, OK, relatively fluid markets) both allow more innovation and lower the barriers to entry is fundamental to my open-mindedness w.r.t. these trade deals. The complicating factor is that perhaps any 1 deal might _tighten_ things up in some ways (e.g. DMCA-like

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread glen ☣
I don't know what "deep answers" means. But my understanding is that if we allow China to dominate trade in the region, then we (may) lose seats at lots of negotiating tables. If we lead negotiations and have an excuse to stick our noses into every negotiation, then we retain more of both no

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Nick Thompson
Thanks, Eric, for making that clear. I feel like as an Old Deweyan, I should be for free trade. After all, if I believe tin the market-place of ideas, surely I believe in the free market place of marketplaces. But isn’t it also Deweyan to believe in rational democratic planning? Al

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Marcus Daniels
Owen writes: “Oddly enough, this is somewhat like Open Source and its Licensing. What's to prevent someone from forking your repo and making it their own? (Happened with one of mine). But because the license was GPLv3, they weren't able to change the license and had to suffer some issues. It wa

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Eric Charles
Gillian asked: "Why not just work towards StarFleet and a large club of some sort? ... China might be really good at making underpants, but no clue how to make t-shirts, America might make pretty good T-shirts and no clue how to make Sweaters. Canada (might) have make KFA pants." Two answers: 1) G

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Owen Densmore
Skin in the game is a good approach. I think a goal should be to improve the ability for individuals to find sustainable but unique and interesting work and to create many different kinds of robust market where every player feels like they have skin in the game. Oddly enough, this is somewhat li

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Gillian Densmore
And as importantly with 100% transparency, such that there's hopefully good questions like: is (this thing here) doable and a good idea? On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > I had heard about that > > Can (seriusly) ask about (one of) the elephents here? > Why not just work

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Marcus Daniels
If the government is serious about supporting the service economy, rather than trying to figure out ways to protect U.S. intellectual property, I would suggest we turn it around and figure out ways to undermine other countries' intellectual property. Obviously from a trade perspective it is

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Gillian Densmore
I had heard about that Can (seriusly) ask about (one of) the elephents here? Why not just work twards StarFleet and a large club of some sort? such that Ireland and it's delightfull accent works with America, or China? (for example) Fore example: China might be reeally good at making underpants, b

Re: [FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread Owen Densmore
The saying that TPP is giving away the most successful market in the world, us, leads me to caution. And the bureaucracy is likely to be as intense and intrusive as the Eurocrats that lead to the Brexit. Because the process was private, I'd vote no until it was more widely discussed and its impact

[FRIAM] TPP pro and con

2016-08-04 Thread glen ☢
https://ustr.gov/tpp/ https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp In the midst of a wide-ranging discussion with my intensely Christian neighbor who expects to vote for Trump, he explained his experiences as a missionary in some of the NAFTA countries where he claims to have seen the bad effect of the agre

Re: [FRIAM] Monitoring Data Usage

2016-08-04 Thread Gillian Densmore
@Nick Did you mana to find what's eating data? I don't know how you usually use the internet, Basically when you use a cellphone for internet (totally fine) you start at Warp2 , then pretty quickly get nocked down to about Warp 0.5 Google's Chrome for FRIAM emailing (for instance) eh they don't