Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-19 Thread M V Bhaskar
David same old mind-set of controlling nature. Controlling nature vs controlling human behaviour. This is the issue to be discussed. Nature is more predictable and controllable. Human behavior is more unpredictable and hence less controllable. Unfortunately, many people dream of controlling

Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-19 Thread M V Bhaskar
The ETC paper is quite interesting - Harvard physicist and geoengineering advocate, David Keith, describes geoengineering in the context of climate change as ‘a countervailing measure, one that uses additional technology to counteract unwanted side effects without eliminating their root

Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-19 Thread rongretlarson
List - with ccs to Greg and others (including at ETC) I write mainly to bring the CDR technologies into our discussion about ETC's views. I hope the following will also be considered as an input into the ethics/philosophy discussion that is taking place simultaneously on this list. I view

Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-18 Thread David Lewis
A few more revealing nuggets: ETC says it wants all reference to climate taken out of definitions of geoengineering, i.e. the laudable goal of combating climate change *has no place* in the definition of geoengineering, as it suggests that geoengineering technologies do, in fact, combat

Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-18 Thread RAU greg
In looking at ETC funding sources I see that the HKH Foundation has been a major donor: http://www.etcgroup.org/sites/www.etcgroup.org/files/report/ETC%20Audited%20Financial%20Statements_2010%20copy.pdf The HKH Foundation is named for Harold K. Hochschild, who was for many years the executive

Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-18 Thread Ken Caldeira
Seems like the global agricultural system would fit ETC's definition of geoengineering. ETC group defines geoengineering as the intentional, large-scale technological manipulation of the Earth’s systems, Under this definition, geoengineering is already a widely deployed and broadly

Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-18 Thread Andrew Lockley
What about dams, fertilizer production, forestry, deep sea fishing? In fact the actual existence of industrialized humanity has precipitated the anthropocene, so from ETC's perspective the industrial revolution seems like a pretty bad idea. Smash up the looms, luddites! I'm going to spear a

[geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-16 Thread Andrew Lockley
Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth http://www.climate-engineering.eu/single/items/mooney-pat-et-al-2012-darken-the-sky-and-whiten-the-earth.html Mooney, Pat; Wetter, Kathy Jo; Bronson, Diana (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth. The dangers of geoengineering.

Re: [geo] Mooney, Pat; et al. (2012): Darken the sky and whiten the earth

2012-11-16 Thread RAU greg
A more direct link here: http://whatnext.org/resources/Publications/Volume-III/Single-articles/wnv3_etcgroup_144.pdf I thought these nuggets were especially revealing: Why is geoengineering unacceptable? It can’t be tested: No experimental phase is possible – in order to have a noticeable