Fear and Forgiveness:The Aftermath of Massacre by Harsh Mander
Review Extract:
'Human history is not just a history of cruelty, but also of compassion,
sacrifice, courage, [and] kindness. What we choose to emphasise in this
complex history will define our lives…'—Howard Zinn
In February 2002,
Sometime back we had some posters recommending theoretical copybook
solutions to the victims of the Orissa carnage without any knowledge of
ground realities. Here are some real examples of justice 'Gujarat style'
Example 1:
Gujarat judge refuses to hear plea against minister
*A Gujarat High Court
In the light of the debates we have seen on Goanet on Science vs Religion,
the latest issue of Time magazine has a lead article on how faith can heal.
Some food for thought.
http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20090223,00.html
Regards,
Marshall
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-4129973,prtpage-1.cms
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20090227260403500.htm
Extract:
it is no aberration that Mr Atal Bihari Vajpayee defended Mr Modi?s pogrom
or Mr Advani sided with ?Sadhvi? Thakur and recommended Ms Kodnani?s
induction into Mr Modi?s cabinet. Ultimately, they are all mutually linked
via the RSS, and share the same project, that of Hindutva. This
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Perspectives
on South Asian politics
The tragedy for christians continue in Orissa. Many of them are still not
able to return to their homes. And the worst affected are the children who
are missing out on their education. Is there any solution or answer to this?
http://new.asianews.it/index.php?l=enart=14480
Regards,
Marshall
Goanet News:
More than two weeks after a group of self-styled moralists attacked young
women in a pub here, people in this Karnataka
town are still seething.From housewives to businessmen to community leaders,
including those who look down upon the pub culture, there is unanimity that
the Sri Ram
A former Merchant Navy officer was found murdered in New Bombay for his
property. Read on.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai/He_disposed_the_body_but_not_the_civic_receipt_book/articleshow/4108760.cms
http://www.sacw.net/article633.html
Marshall Mendonza wrote:* Would you be kind enough to substantiate what
you written* * above giving references to the sources of your information?*
Santosh:* *I substantiate below my assertion that more lives are being lost
from violence based on religion, politics and ideology in the North
Wonder if it is going to be Goa's turn next after Gujarat, Orissa and
Karnataka? Also wonder what MP and his pet poodles have to say about their
chief campaign manager with an unenviable track record.
http://oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=16903cid=2
And this is a party which aspires to be an alternative to the Congress.
Shorn of ideas and shorn of governance.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mandir-rhetoric-back-but-not-so-shrill-this-time/420631/0
Santosh:Having provided fatality numbers in India from a source that I
consider to be multi-partisan
Response:
An institution linked to the RSS and headed by persons associated with the
RSS is considered multipartisan. Ha ha ha!! That was a good joke. Tell us
another one, just like the other one,
Santosh Helekar:
He seems to be oblivious of the fact that relentless recycling of stale news
for shock value does nothing to promote the secular cause among people who
are suspicious of any kind of propaganda.
Response:
What one sees depends on where one stands. What is truth for one is
Samir Kelekar:
I would certainly like to know more on this front. In fact, I have some very
good friends from Nagaland. They are tribals but all converted to
Christianity.I have heard a lot from the RSS brigade, as to what is going on
in Nagaland, Manipur etc. In fact, there are special laws out
I came across this post in one of the yahoo groups of which I am a member.
Extract:
The irony of our times is that the dark forces that support the RSS and its
wholly subsidiaries in their reactionay agenda go abroad and support
democrat/labour/liberal in US/UK/Canada!
Clearly protection of a
Marshall Mendonza wrote:* What one sees depends on where one stands.
*Santosh :This appears to be an admission of bias in the conduct of this
copy and paste campaign. Given this admission, it would be good to know what
people of other perspectives have to say about these issues.
Response
Santosh:
This is especially important because more lives are being lost from violence
based on religion, politics and ideology in the North-East than any other
part of India, including Kashmir.
Response:
Would you be kind enough to substantiate what you written above giving
references to the
Sabdeep Heble:
All fundamentalists are basically birds of the same feather.They have zilch
love for humanity. Remove their mask and you won't be able totell one from
the other. While Marshall has reproduced only those paras that suit his
convenience and show one side of the picture, I shall
Roland Francis:
Great article Marshall. Balanced and well analysed.And none of it cut and
paste. Something your critics would not have thought you capable of doing.
Response:
Thank you Roland for your compliments. Due to time constraints in balancing
work life ( I spend almost 12 hours daily) and
Santosh Helekar : The only purpose then, that I can think of, for anybody
to continue doing so day in and day out by spouting provocative rhetoric, or
engaging in a single-minded copy and paste ampaign, is political, and it is
tawdry.
Response: For those who wish to live in denial, they will
This is an article by Rakesh Sharma a noted documentary filmmaker who made
the much acclaimed file 'The Final Solution on the Gujarat killings which
went on to win several international awards. It was written over two years
ago but is still relevant for the times.
regards,
Marshall
FROM RAKESH
Sandeep Heble:In fact, Christian fundamentalism in the North East is
threatening to break the very idea of India into pieces.
Response: May I suggest that Sandeep brush up his knowledge of the Northeast
and its problems before firing from his keyboard? The issues in the
northeast are far from
Extracts:
IN MANGALORE, they beat women for drinking. In Pune, they tear priceless
manuscripts because they feel a historian has insulted Shivaji. In Delhi,
they spit on a man at a podium because they feel he is a traitor to the
nation. In Bhopal, they break a school because they feel the
For those who wish to live in denial and would like to believe that all is
hunky dory in Karnataka and that the incidents of the past months are stray
cases overblown or one sided, read the following article.
Extracts:
Perhaps the most damning evidence yet, of the tacit linkages between the Sri
This time it is violence in Jabalpur. Yet another BJP ruled state.
http://www.ucanews.com/2009/02/03/hindu-radicals-vandalize-catholic-school/
Regards,
Marshall
'No party wants to displease the Hindus'
February 2, 2009
http://specials.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/02sld1-orissa-archbishop-speaks-against-kandhamal-violence.htm
Interview: Aziz Haniffa
Archbishop Raphael Cheenath, head of the Catholic Church in Orissa, has
predicted that Christians who fled
Dr. U. G. Barad:
I am sure Christians in Gujarat must be celebrating these days! If you have
any other opinions please share in this forum. Please click-on-line with the
link provided to read the details.
Response:
1. The subject title is misleading. Why should christians of Gujarat
celeberate
Karnataka like Gujarat and Orissa used to be one of the most peaceful states
in India once upon a time.That is till the BJP took over. Karnataka is today
hogging the headlines but not for its IT prowess or cultured people. Goa is
next on the radar of these forces as the gathering of hindutva
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you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.
Best wishes,
Marshall Mendonza
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* * * * * * * * * ANNUAL GOANETTERS MEET * * * * * * * * *
Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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* * * * * * * * * ANNUAL GOANETTERS MEET * * * * * * * * *
Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
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Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel
Mandovi
Santosh Helekar:
He believes that all readers of Goanet, Christian and non-Christian, buy his
version of events and his facts, and that he speaks for all Goanet when he
poses rhetorical questions to some of us like Miguel, Sandeep and myself who
do not fall for his one-sided partisan propaganda.
Here is an interesting article more suited to our times and which should
make every right thinking individual sit up and think.
Excerpts:
The U.S. government should consider naming the individuals responsible for
leading these groups as terrorists by adding them to the U.S. list of
Specially
Santosh Helekar:
What we are seeing is a simple over-reaction to issues that are in some
cases wrongly portrayed through a unidimensional communal narrative.
Response:
According to reports 14 districts out of of 30 and 300 Villages, 4,400
Houses burnt, 50,000 Homeless, 59 People killed including
Sandeep Heble:
Many people commit the fundamental error of equating an anti-BJP post with
an anti-Hindu post. There are a lot of Hindus who do not see eye-to-eye with
the ideologies of the BJP or the Sangh Parivar so it would be ridiculous to
equate an anti-BJP stance to an anti-Hindu stance.
Santosh Helekar:
It looks like attempts are being made in this forum to show Hindu NRIs in
bad light by picking and choosing articles and excerpts from the internet,
and creating the impression that facts are being reported.
Response:
1. It is interesting how the poster draws conclusions that
Miguel Braganza:
the concerned Bishop in Orissa even swore a affidavit wrongly stating that
VHP leader Dr. Pravin Togadia had threatened an Asti Kalash procession
when the most Indians know that swamis are buried.
Response:
Miguel appears to have been carried away with his eloquence. Though it is
Vinay Natekar:
I remember some days back there was a debate on Goanet regarding Pakistani
School Textbooks having hate agenda against India. See how Pakistan
Government is filling innocent minds with hatred from the childhood against
India and Indian culture.
Response:
You have raised a very
Here is an interesting article on funding of organisations in India engaged
in violence by Indian expatriates:
Excerpts:
Rekhi, global chairman of The IndUS Entrepreneurs, an organisation of South
Asian businesspeople, claimed that money collected by Indian Hindus in
America and sent to
This is the kind of activity the HJS / SS is engaged in. Refer report in
Times of India dt 26.12.2008 below.
Regards,
Marshall
NAVI MUMBAI: A carol performance in Navi Mumbai had to be shifted to
another venue after a right-wing organisation allegedly forced the original
host, a school in
Marshall Mendonza: Isn't this a classic case of the pot trying to show how
black the kettle is!!!
Dr Barad: Why do you say this? are you trying to say that terrorist attacks
in India are conducted by Hindu Janajagruti Samiti (HJS)? Please give your
justifications for the response you wrote
Dr Barad: Do write your response only through Goanet, don't use your cronies
to send personal mails as a patch up.
Response: What cronies are you talking about? What patch up? What personal
mails? Have you started hallucinating now?
Regards,
Marshall
Venantius Pinto:
I believe there have been such meeting before. Allow people their own way of
understanding, through their own forums.If Goa is to heal then we have to be
willing to hear people out.
Response:
Dear Ven,
I have no objection to the HJS / SS or any other organisation holding any
Samir Umarye:
To bring about an awareness among the people concerning terrorism and it's
ill-effects the Hindu Janajagruti Samiti (HJS) Goa has organised a public
meeting on Sunday, December 28 at 5
pm at Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Maidan Bicholim.
Response:
Isn't this a classic case of the pot
Sandeep:
There is no such thing as a fundamental right to convert any person to
one's own religion and the government can impose certain restrictions
keeping in view public order, the Supreme Court has ruled.The court's ruling
came while dismissing a petition challenging an Orissa law requiring
Frederick had made an interesting observation that many expatriates profess
liberal values abroad and are arch conservatives back home. They practice
double standards. Secularism for some of them is only skin deep. Here is an
article written by Shashi Tharoor in the Washington Post sometime in the
Sandeep Heble:
That person should well be entitled to convert, but the conversion must be
voluntary, i.e. without the use of unethical methods like force, fraud or
material inducements.
Response:
Any conversion which is done by force or fraud is no conversion. The Church
does not look upon the
Shrikant Barve:This is it.. Marshall Mendonza
The article refered by Dr. Barad.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/conversations-with-foreignfunded-charity/372252/
Response:
I found the article in the IE. I asked for the weblink to the page in the
ministry of home affairs website which gives all
Extracts:Quote:
But efforts to investigate the VHP's foreign funding have been thwarted. In
a 1999 article, Om Prakash Tiwari documents a distressing missing file of
the VHP. He writes: The corridors of power in Delhi have mysteriously
suppressed a file of the Income Tax Department which was
http://indianchristians.in/news/content/view/2660/47/
Vinay Natekar:
The conversions by force, fraud and inducements was are under debate. Have a
look at the conversions in Madhya Pradesh, Orissa and Arunachal Pradesh and
their impact on law and order there which compelled some Indian states to
implement ban on conversions
But Today we can see
Dr Barad:
Marshall, before I key in my response on above subject, can I ask you as to
your definition of the words Conversion and Secularism?
Response:
Could you inform us what you understand by the words Conversion and
Secularism? I will then respond.
I do not have the time or patience to play
Santosh:if you tell somebody that they will be cured from cancer if they
pray for this saint to intercede on their behalf, as soon as they convert,
and you sincerely believe what you are telling them, then are you committing
a fraud? I have a suspicion that our legal system says no. Otherwise, it
Sandeep Heble:
The links below may provide you with the answers:
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main.asp?filename=ts013004shashi.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaus_vs_the_State_of_Madhya_Pradesh
Response:
Thanks Sandeep for providing some links. However, this was not what I had
asked Dr
Here is yet another one. Enjoy!
Windows 2004
Konkani Alert
The Coalition Government in Goa has managed to come to one unanimous
decision. It has commissioned Bill Gates to create a Konkani Version of
Window 2004 exclusively for Goa and other Konkan regions in India.
The Microsoft Team is
*Excerpts:Quote:*
India is witnessing the rise of politically motivated communalism. For this
purpose, an entirely new religion called 'Hindutva' has been invented.
Hindutva lays claim to India as an exclusively Hindu nation. The tactics of
Hindutva are unscrupulous. Buildings have been destroyed.
This is with reference to Dr Barad's posting.
1. Could Dr Barad provide the link where the information is displayed as I
have been unsuccessful in finding the info.
2. Confining myself only to the Indian context as I am unaware of facts in
other countries, I would like to state that Freedom of
I received this joke in my mail-box. Thought of sharing with you. Enjoy.
Goan Joke
A Goan family in Varca was puzzled when the coffin of their dead mother
arrived from Canada. It was sent by one of the daughters. When they opened
the Lid,they noticed that the dead body was very tightly squeezed
With Christmas approaching soon, Orissa is once again on tenterhooks. The
RSS has declared a bandh on 25th Dec 2008. to intimidate and provoke the
christian community. Lets hope good sense prevails and the Orissa government
acts against this threat with a firm hand.
Mario:I was the only one in this forum who opposed the call in another post
for Narendra Modi to assume national leadership in India based on his new
perception as an administrative genius.
Response: Since you have made a point that only you responded to the article
on Narendra Modi, here is my
This is the state of the sub-continent we are unfortunately destined to live
in. On one hand Islamic terrorists and on the other hand Hindutva
terrorists. And we are caught in between. With every day getting uncertain,
each passing day becomes a bonus in our lives. And the country inspite of
being
Excerpts:Quote:
The siege in South Mumbai exposed the extent of the denial residing in the
central government over a recurrent threat posed by extremists.
Western commentators were quick to invoke references to 9/11. Yet the truth
is that these atrocities were only the latest in a torrent of
Santosh:Please provide me with actual first-hand evidence from a responsible
law enforcement agency in a point-wise manner here that Ekal Vidyalaya, VHP
America and/or Indicorps are/were directly involved in funding any kind of
illegal or criminal activity in India or anywhere else. I will forward
While googling the web, I came across this article published in Tehelka
issue of Jan 19, 2008. The author appears to have forseen the events of
August 2008.Here is what he says.
*With Modi triumphant, an emboldened Sangh is set upon doing a repeat of
Gujarat, reports **S. ANAND*
**
*You are just
Thanks Freddy for that lovely article. Look forward to some more from
you. The toddy tapper, the coconut plucker, the fisherwomen, the man who
sold the feni , the barber, the posorkar, were almost treated like family
members.They mixed business with social interaction. They knew the members
of the
This is a report on Ekal Vidyalaya's, a VHP front organisation funded by
Sonal Shah and her organisation Indicorp.
Extract:
a study, which revealed that the FTS which was provided assistance by the
erstwhile NDA Government since 1999-2000 under the Innovative and
Experimental Education Component
Thank you Joe for the wonderful lyrics and videos. Brought back many
nostalgic memories of my childhood. Do they still conduct them today in Goa?
Regards,
Marshall
Sandeep Heble:I somehow fail to understand why Marshall has joined the
bandwagon of people, who are all out to tarnish the fair name of Sonal Shah
with propaganda that is false, malicious and misleading.
Response: First of all, let me assure Sandeep that I have not joined any
bandwagon or
In some ways the demolition of the mosque was like a mini reprise of
Partition: a watershed event that radically changed the relationship between
Hindus and Muslims, within this country and outside, and created a chain
reaction of revenge and reprisal, which started with the Bombay blasts and
I came across two thought provoking letters to the editor of Outlook.
Thought of sharing with you.
Quote:
After all that I've read and heard about the attack on Mumbai, I feel it's
my fault. I'm the one to blame. Why?
Because I live my life pretending nothing can happen to me (until it hits
home
Santosh: Are you sure you are comfortable with taking Marshall and the
writers of the articles he posts by their words, but not Sonal Shah? Is
Marshall more truthful than Sonal Shah?
Response: Some posters love to live in denial. It helps them to avoid
uncomfortable questions and also
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