On 5/24/05, Steve Blackburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dmitry Serebrennikov wrote:
>
>
> > * The meat of the VM seems to be in the "spokes" that connect to the
> > "VM core-hub". It seems that this is where it would make the most
> > sense to mix components written in C with those written in Ja
Ulrich Kunitz wrote:
Having read your MMTk papers, it appears to me that the required
JAVA extensions look a little bit like parts of P/Invoke* of
Microsoft's Common Language Runtime.
Ugh. Those papers perhaps are not as clear as they could be. I've
written a separate email saying a little m
-Original Message-
From: Ulrich Kunitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2005 7:55 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Terminology etc
> ...
> But it might still be that C-implemented modules (particularly the GC)
are faster than their J
Perhaps it is worth saying a little more about vmmagic.
The basic idea is to provide the necessary extensions to Java for the
construction of a java-in-java virtual machine. These fall into two
categories: pragmas (some for safety, some for performance) and
unboxed types. In all cases, these ar
On May 24, 2005, at 6:57 AM, Steve Heath wrote:
Isn't the message here: Gosling misunderstands the point of Harmony?
Anyone reading to the bottom of the article will be put right.
Just a quick question tho'. The article mentions portability and
distribution licensing. Isn't another part of the
> > Steve, if the spokes were in Java but the hub in C, would we then lose
> > all of the aggressive inlining benefits that Java-in-Java solution can
> > provide?
>
> I don't know. These are really interesting questions and ones I think
> we need to hear lots of informed opinion on. My experi
On Tue, 2005-05-24 at 19:08 -0300, Rodrigo Kumpera wrote:
> I think you dind't quite get how it works with MMtk. There are a few
> "magic" classes that receive special treatment from the compiler and
> translates method calls into pointer operations. This way MMtk can operate
> under the same c
> [Original Message]
> From: Weldon Washburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Date: 5/24/05 4:51:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [arch] The Third Way : C/C++ and Java and lets go forward
>
> On 5/23/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >=20
> > On May 23, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Steve Blackburn wrote
Added this list to wiki - http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/HarmonyArchitecture
-- dims
On 5/24/05, Archie Cobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Weldon Washburn wrote:
> > In response to Geir's request, below is a first cut at a simple
> > high-level modular structure:
> >
> > 1.1) Execution Modules
updated wiki with this list - http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/HarmonyArchitecture
On 5/24/05, Weldon Washburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 5/23/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On May 23, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Steve Blackburn wrote:
> >
> > >> Lets get moving. Comments?
> >
Weldon Washburn wrote:
In response to Geir's request, below is a first cut at a simple
high-level modular structure:
1.1) Execution Modules
Execution Manager
Execution Engine
Code generator
Profile Collector
1.2) GC
1.3) Threading/sync Manager
I think you dind't quite get how it works with MMtk. There are a few
"magic" classes that receive special treatment from the compiler and
translates method calls into pointer operations. This way MMtk can operate
under the same condition of C code.
I'm not sure how did you relate interface ca
Steve, this "clarification of terminology" helped me a lot to understand
your approach better. As Java-in-C camper I can even see now the
advantages in the approach. But just let me add my 2 cents of pretty
wild ideas.
Having read your MMTk papers, it appears to me that the required
JAVA extension
DONE :)
On 5/24/05, Dan Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please harmony-dev:
> Stop
> Stop
> Stop sending me these notices!
> Stop
> Stop
> -- Dan Cohen in Calgary
> --
>
On 5/23/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On May 23, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Steve Blackburn wrote:
>
> >> Lets get moving. Comments?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Respectfully, I think this would be a mistake. I think it would be
> > a major error to start coding a VM core until there was mor
Please harmony-dev:
Stop
Stop
Stop sending me these notices!
Stop
Stop
-- Dan Cohen in Calgary
--
On Tuesday 24 May 2005 15:26, Apache Wiki wrote:
> Dear Wiki user,
>
> You h
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Archie Cobbs wrote:
That's a good idea... I've made a small start..
http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/JVM_Implementation_Ideas
Excellent!
--Steve
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Well said.
Failure is easy to predict, and any average person can do it.
It is more virtuous to fail having tried, than to succeed in predicting
failure.
Therein lies the difference between average people, and exceptional people.
Clinton Begin
http://www.ibatis.com
On 5/24/05, Dan Lydick <[
On 5/24/05, Upayavira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When a separate mailing list has been set up for wiki changes, the
> changes will go there, and you'll be able to (un)subscribe to that list
> however you wish.
Thank you.
Art
Art - Arthit Suriyawongkul wrote:
How to unsubscribe from wiki changes update ?
I've already checked by "subscription list" in the wiki, it's empty.
When a separate mailing list has been set up for wiki changes, the
changes will go there, and you'll be able to (un)subscribe to that list
howev
> [Original Message]
> From: Mladen Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Date: 5/24/05 5:41:28 AM
> Subject: Re: Sun lashes out at open source J2SE
>
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > Eh.
> >
> > Lets just keep to our purpose and message of compatibility and
> > openness.
>
> When we move f
How to unsubscribe from wiki changes update ?
I've already checked by "subscription list" in the wiki, it's empty.
cheers,
Art
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I hacked on Kaffe for a while as part of my undergraduate thesis, which
explor
Heh, well, depends on the particular one I suppose. :-)
I don't know that it's important to be notified of each new
interested party. I imagine
we will get many thousands of them (ok, maybe not, but we can hope
anyways). Maybe
having separate messages for edits is overkill. Is there some w
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One of the current generation of the Kaffe developers. Loud, clear, Free
Sof
--- Craig Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, please. Not sure if these are really valuable
> anyways.
What, "People"? :)
-Matt
>
> Thanks,
> Craig
>
> On May 24, 2005, at 8:33 AM, dan sinclair wrote:
>
> > Can these either be turned off or sent to another
> list? They seem
> > to gen
We'll switch to the -commits list. We want the general developer
community to be watching this stream also.
Thanks for the patience...
geir
On May 24, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Craig Blake wrote:
Yeah, please. Not sure if these are really valuable anyways.
Thanks,
Craig
On May 24, 2005, at 8:3
Yeah, please. Not sure if these are really valuable anyways.
Thanks,
Craig
On May 24, 2005, at 8:33 AM, dan sinclair wrote:
Can these either be turned off or sent to another list? They seem
to generate a lot of email that isn't related to the topic at hand.
Thanks,
dan
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move into proper place (alphabetical)
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Adresse électronique : [[MailT
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Rob,
Please move it...any experience is better than none :)
-- dims
On 5/24/05, Rob Gonzalez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> good point, though i feel a bit outgunned by the other guys in that
> list :) dalibor, mark wielaard, tom tromey...big guns in free java.
> i just hacked on kaffe for a whil
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Here as an observer only!
-
--- Rob Gonzalez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> good point, though i feel a bit outgunned by the
> other guys in that
> list :) dalibor, mark wielaard, tom tromey...big
> guns in free java.
> i just hacked on kaffe for a while, did some
> debugging, build most of
> a verifier, hacked on it as part
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moved myself to "people wth prior VM experience."
-
good point, though i feel a bit outgunned by the other guys in that
list :) dalibor, mark wielaard, tom tromey...big guns in free java.
i just hacked on kaffe for a while, did some debugging, build most of
a verifier, hacked on it as part of one of those proposals to add
generics to java sort of
--- Apache Wiki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> + || Rob Gonzalez || rob.gonzalez AT gmail.com ||
> Kaffe, LSID ||
>
Kaffe?--Rob, shouldn't you be under "Folks with prior
VM Experience" then?
-Matt
>
__
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, a
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Can these either be turned off or sent to another list? They seem to generate a
lot of email that isn't related to the topic at hand.
Thanks,
dan
> Dear Wiki user,
>
> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Harmony Wiki" for
> change
> notification.
>
> The following page h
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Peter Donald wrote:
Are you suggesting we do it w/ JC? :) Is there a single copyright
holder such
I'll have to abstain from the voting on that :-)
I am not sure why not :)
I think that what Geir is proposing is that Harmony start from some
exisitng codebase that is hacking on and rework
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Initial translation to italian (incompl
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=== JVM Implementation Ideas ===
This is a list of various useful
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Folks,
Please free to add yourself to the People page -
http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/People. There is a new field where you
can indicate your willingness to become a committer :) [We are still
in the process of deciding the details of how/who/when/what of the
bootstrapping process...but this is
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== Folks
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> Eh.
>
> Lets just keep to our purpose and message of compatibility and
> openness. I'm familiar with getting misquoted, or pieces taken out of
> context, and I hope this is the case here.
Yeah.
I understand where James Gosling is coming from: he is concerned about
Peter Donald wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Steve Blackburn wrote:
>
>>> Lets get moving. Comments?
>>
>>
>> Respectfully, I think this would be a mistake. I think it would be a
>> major error to start coding a VM core until there was more clarity
>> about what we are doing and what the core would require.
we are talking cross-purposes...i can't keep up with all the traffic.
Are u sure, you haven't missed a nugget of information here and there?
Am not saying that you should not pick Jam. Pick jam, but there are
others who are willing to help and willing to write code and have
contributions to bring i
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Trivial change to test commit messages.
--
Rodrigo Kumpera wrote:
There isn't much space for plugability of components beyond compile-link
time. And I see no reason to have it otherwise.
That depends on what you do, and what the VM can do. If, for example,
the VM supports isolation, and running an application shows that it
performs be
There isn't much space for plugability of components beyond compile-link
time. And I see no reason to have it otherwise.
Rodrigo
On 5/24/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On May 24, 2005, at 4:49 AM, Dmitry Serebrennikov wrote:
>
> >
> > * "OS interface" is perhaps one p
I've added this to the wiki and linked from the main page.
- Original Message -
From: "Steve Blackburn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:05 AM
Subject: Terminology etc
I thought it might be helpful to clarify some terminology and a few
technical issues. Correc
Peter Donald wrote:
Hi,
Is there a mailing list where wiki changes are mailed out to?
The wiki is configured for notifications to go to
harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org, but are not getting through.
Could someone add [EMAIL PROTECTED] to the allow list for harmony-dev?
Thanks,
Upayavira
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They automatically build themselves
simple JIT backends (by extracting fragments produced by the ahead of
time compiler). This sounds like a great way to achieve portability
while achiving better performance than a conventional interpreter.
I guess it's a bit bet
Isn't the message here: Gosling misunderstands the point of Harmony?
Anyone reading to the bottom of the article will be put right.
Just a quick question tho'. The article mentions portability and
distribution licensing. Isn't another part of the point that an OSS
virtual machine (with the backing
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Eh.
Lets just keep to our purpose and message of compatibility and
openness.
When we move from 'enthusiasm' to the 'project' more and more
'doubts' will be seen :)
Let's just play our song and let others have all the doubts they wish.
Regards,
Mladen.
If I've missed someone saying the same as me, my apologies..
You *can* code a VM in 100% Java, it just takes some other technology
(e.g. C or another JVM) to bootstrap the process. I'm just not sure
how useful it will be to do this. That question aside, here's how you
would do it from the ground-u
Eh.
Lets just keep to our purpose and message of compatibility and
openness. I'm familiar with getting misquoted, or pieces taken out
of context, and I hope this is the case here.
geir
On May 23, 2005, at 5:51 PM, Brad Cox wrote:
http://www.infomaticsonline.co.uk/2135503
Sun lashes
On May 24, 2005, at 4:49 AM, Dmitry Serebrennikov wrote:
* "OS interface" is perhaps one place where some code can be
shared. If C version can benefit from an OS abstraction layer for
portability, then it seems like this layer could be shared between
the C and the Java implementations.
2005/5/24, David Griffiths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi, on the subject of terminology, when you say "scheduling", what do you
> mean exactly? Are you talking about monitors and other sync issues or are
> you talking about some kind of m:n thread scheduling? Or neither? :)
>
>
I'm talking about t
Hi, on the subject of terminology, when you say "scheduling", what do you
mean exactly? Are you talking about monitors and other sync issues or are
you talking about some kind of m:n thread scheduling? Or neither? :)
Cheers,
Dave
On 5/24/05, Steve Blackburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dmit
(B>A$B!!(Bquestion (sorry)$B!'(B would it include realtime capabilities?
(B>Current
(B>systems are sometimes real nightmares from this point of view and it is a
(B>must have for embedded systems...
(B>
(B>
(BI certainly hope so... I don't believe it is beyond us to achieve that.
(BT
Dmitry Serebrennikov wrote:
A quick proposal: perhaps "VM bootstrap" as used below should really
be something like "VM initialization," "VM init," or even "VM
startup", since the word "bootstrap" is very specific and to me at
least, indicates something more akin to the "VM bootloader" + "VM bo
(B
$B!d(B* "OS interface" is perhaps one place where some code can be shared. If
$B!d(BC version can benefit from an OS abstraction layer for portability, then
$B!d(Bit seems like this layer could be shared between the C and the Java
$B!d(Bimplementations.
(B
(BA$B!!(Bquestion (sorry)
$B!d(Bif the spokes were in Java but the hub in C, would we then lose
$B!d(Ball of the aggressive inlining benefits that Java-in-Java solution can
$B!d(Bprovide?
(B
(BI guess that if we use an LLVM based solution this would not be an issue
(Banymore (for that matter, this might be true fo
This is excellent! For one, I find Java-in-Java to be much clearer after
this little set of definitions.
A quick proposal: perhaps "VM bootstrap" as used below should really be
something like "VM initialization," "VM init," or even "VM startup",
since the word "bootstrap" is very specific and
Archie Cobbs wrote:
Nick Lothian wrote:
According to http://www.csc.uvic.ca/~csc586a/Ass1.pdf JamVm lacks a
bytecode verifier, too.
Seems like most O/S VM's don't have one (including JC)...
Gcj, leading the way, has two, or three by now :) Kaffe and CacaoJVM
also have their own implementa
2005/5/24, Steve Blackburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> I thought it might be helpful to clarify some terminology and a few
> technical issues. Corrections/improvements/clarifications welcome ;-)
>
Scheduled for translation...
Raffaele
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