On 3/29/20 9:47 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
Well, at the moment Ruby looks better than Python,
Ruby is close to dead these days, whereas Python is growing by leaps and
bounds.
--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way
To answer Waynes original question, I use all three languages. If I want
to write a simple TSO script or use the SDSF API I reach out for REXX.
If I want to make use of a massive standard library I use Python.
If I'm writing integration code I use Lua.
Lua is a niche language designed to be
Here is a website with free coding programs designed to get a
non-programmer up to speed in about 1 year of full time learning.
https://www.freecodecamp.org/
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 10:48 PM Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> Well, at the moment Ruby looks better than Python, and I'm wondering about
>
Well, at the moment Ruby looks better than Python, and I'm wondering about Lua
and Rust. Java and JavaScript are probably unavoidable.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Ah, language wars. The problem is that there are a lot of pairs of languages
where each has a nice feature that the other lacks. It's like editors: when I'm
using ISPF I miss XEDIT and when I'm using XEDIT I miss ISPF.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> SYSMDUMPs can be written to SYSOUT, and then, for the ones you want
>to look at with IPCS, extracted to a sequential data set. pool. You can
>use
>a spool file management program (for example, SDSF or EJES) to do the
>extraction.
While that is true, I do not recommend doing that. Most
Definately install Python 3.6 on z/OS (not 2.7). It comes with "pip" so
you can download dependencies from the command line.
I would suggest learning list comprehensions to get a grasp of Python
awesomeness ;) It may make you forget about PL/I for a while.
On 3/29/20 8:43 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
If The Good Lord meant for me to use twitter, he would never have invented
e-mail.
Hee - hee ... I have dodged Twitter but surrendered when urged by biz
partners.
They explained, "The real challenge of Twitter is seeing how long it
takes you to
On 3/29/20 8:36 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
Note; I don't like Perl syntax, but I use it anyway - because it offers me
enough that I'm willing to put up with it.
Perl cool, been using it for about 30 years, but Python is a different
beast.
More coherent and sound language model.
Better and
Hi David,
"... For a lot of tasks ISPF is the best tool for the job. ..."
How about the ONLY (instead of the best) (e.g. HCD, WLM, ISMF)?
Regards,
David
On 2020-03-29 22:52, David Crayford wrote:
I agree. I'm not knocking ISPF! I use it a lot, mainly SDSF as I use
GUI editors. The rest of the
I will try Python, not unlike its superior language PL/I. . I can
handle the poorer syntax (just).
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:00 PM Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
> Dave Crayford asks: "Take the dinosaur test. Do you use Git?"
>
> I do and the z/OS port is something I'm trying to get younger guys to
Dave Crayford asks: "Take the dinosaur test. Do you use Git?"
I do and the z/OS port is something I'm trying to get younger guys to use
at our shop.
I can't even get limited use of SCLM in to our guys modus operandi,
something I've used for a number of years.
We used to use Subversion for
I agree. I'm not knocking ISPF! I use it a lot, mainly SDSF as I use GUI
editors. The rest of the time I spend in a UNIX terminal shell using a
CLI. For a lot of tasks ISPF is the best tool for the job.
BTW, calling a mainframer a dinosaur is not commonly considered an insult ;)
On 2020-03-30
If The Good Lord meant for me to use twitter, he would never have invented
e-mail.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Jack J. Woehr [j...@well.com]
Sent:
The context was using BPAM with a single OPEN versus doing multiple OPENs.
BTW, since the OPEN exit is called with a SYNCH, why was the AMODE on return an
issue?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion
Not all change is progress. I like to be an early adopter, but if the latest
thing on the block is garbage then call me a dynosaur - I won't use it
voluntarily. If an old language or old tool suits my needs, I won't drop it
just because it's out of fashion. ISPF have flaws, but they also have
On 2020-03-30 2:43 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
There's no advantage to REXX anymore, as fine a language as it is.
is not entirely true, right? Three advantages of Rexx would be native support
of EBCDIC, native support of xSAM, and straightforward invocation from TSO?
Right?
Again, not trying to
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 00:27:52 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>I wouldn't expect novices to be using OPENJ, or even to know what a DCB exit
>list is.
>
We didn't use OPENJ; we did use DCB OPEN exit to supply default attributes.
At the advent of SDB I wondered why that didn't exist around 1965.
On 3/26/20 7:29 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
Today I
noticedhttps://developer.ibm.com/mainframe/2020/03/24/python-for-z-enablement/
where IBM announces 'IBM intends to enable Python on z/OS together with the
open source community'
https://twitter.com/JackWoehr/status/1244432511406501889
The
> ??? "No" to which of my questions/conjectures.
The part that you moved way below makes it obvious that I was responding to
"does it work".
> We were novices except for our mentor who was heavily committed
> otherwise, and the intellectual overhead of mastering NOTE/POINT
> and remembering the
In response to Peter's question: "what are application programmers coding
64-bit programs (well, 31-bit resident code that uses 64-bit storage areas,
to be specific) supposed to use for abend debugging?", IBM Fault Analyzer
supports analysis of abends in 64-bit applications.
Regards,
Peter Van
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:45:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>No,
>
??? "No" to which of my questions/conjectures.
We were novices except for our mentor who was heavily committed
otherwise, and the intellectual overhead of mastering NOTE/POINT
and remembering the offset in the block outweighed the
We've just released version 2.7 of zigi - the z/OS ISPF Git Interface
open-source project. Go to https://github.com/wizardofzos/zigi to download
and install, or if you already have zigi installed then use it to pull the
latest update (the master branch has been updated). You can also download
from
Yep. APL\360 will fail if you use more than 8MiB.
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 6:42 PM Charles Mills wrote:
>
> Hardware upward compatibility of problem state code is darned near 100%.
>
> Some privileged instructions have gone away, but that is only a concern if
> you are porting an OS, or OS-like
In article
you wrote:
> Does SAS/C actually open as BPAM and use point, or does it just stuff the
> member name in the JFCB and use BSAM/QSAM?
Yes, POINT, STOW, etc. etc.
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> From: IBM
No, and if there's only on DD it's more overhead to do multiple OPEN compared
to multiple FINDs.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Paul Gilmartin
Hardware upward compatibility of problem state code is darned near 100%.
Some privileged instructions have gone away, but that is only a concern if you
are porting an OS, or OS-like code such as "extreme" system exits.
Software compatibility is 98 or 99%. For example, application code that
IEATDUMP /SYSMDUMP uses exactly the same security critera
(based on storage key) for which data is allowed to be dumped
as SNAP/SYSUDUMP/SYSABEND.
Jim Mulder z/OS Diagnosis, Design, Development, Test IBM Corp.
Poughkeepsie NY
"IBM Mainframe Discussion List" wrote on
03/29/2020 07:01:45
It depends; if you're moving from i to z then there are lots of differences.
But if your moving from a z to a newer z with the same features, you shouldn't
need to change your applications.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
Then they need to control the dump, not IPCS. Otherwise their system is like a
building with an unlisted address and an open door.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Mike Schwab
IBM S/360 code compiled in early 1960s is still running on current
z/15 boxes. Try the Turnkey 4- package. It is MVS 3.8J from 1983,
PTFs applied, and user software added.
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 5:50 PM Grant Steele wrote:
>
> Impressed with the depth on this list from the contributors. I am
I recently did a z/VSE to z/OS conversion. There were assembler programs
that were not recompiled in 50 years. Yes, fifty years. They were still
running. Also, they were written to use ISAM and they were currently
using the ISAM transparency feature of VSAM to read/write KSDS file.
Tony
They could have secret information running on the system and captured
in the dump that they don't want you to view.
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:33 PM Walt Farrell wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:10:18 -0500, Paul Gilmartin
> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 17:54:58 +, Seymour J Metz
Impressed with the depth on this list from the contributors. I am getting back
into the z-series software and application development after years of being in
another domain.
Here is a very broad question: when you guys/girls are moving your app
portfolio from one hardware platform to another
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 21:01:51 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>Does SAS/C actually open as BPAM and use point, or does it just stuff the
>member name in the JFCB and use BSAM/QSAM?
>
Does it work to "just stuff the member name in the JFCB and use BSAM/QSAM"
if the DDNAME refers to a concatenation?
Does SAS/C actually open as BPAM and use point, or does it just stuff the
member name in the JFCB and use BSAM/QSAM?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Don
Poitras
In article <0086720150876766.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu> you wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:52:50 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> >xSAM? I don't know of any language on z/OS* other than HLASM that supports
> >BPAM.
> >
> I believe that SAS/C (ISV) support{s|ed} a construct such as
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:52:50 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>xSAM? I don't know of any language on z/OS* other than HLASM that supports
>BPAM.
>
I believe that SAS/C (ISV) support{s|ed} a construct such as fopen(
"DD:"ddname"("member")", ... );
presumably employing BPAM.
And early in the
Are you talking about member names in the assembly source code or member names
at run time?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Charles Mills
xSAM? I don't know of any language on z/OS* other than HLASM that supports BPAM.
At this point, if I invest the time to master** a new language, I'd be looking
at Java, Ruby or Rust rather than Python.
* Assembler E, F, XF, H and H V2 don't count; they're not supported. It might,
however
Some programmers regard those as advantages.
> Would it feel much different to practice Python via ssh on z/OS with data in
> zFS than on
> Linux with data in ext4 fs?
Slower, costlier and a UI that does not take advantage of cursor movement,
highlighting and control characters;
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 11:43:56 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>> There's no advantage to REXX anymore, as fine a language as it is.
>
>is not entirely true, right? Three advantages of Rexx would be native support
>of EBCDIC, native support of xSAM, and straightforward invocation from TSO?
>Right?
>
So
> There's no advantage to REXX anymore, as fine a language as it is.
is not entirely true, right? Three advantages of Rexx would be native support
of EBCDIC, native support of xSAM, and straightforward invocation from TSO?
Right?
Again, not trying to pick a fight, just trying to
A member name would quite typically be a character string enclosed in
apostrophes.
Also, it's not the assembler, it's the hardware, but assembler "processes"
distinguishes case. CLC of storage containing is not equal to storage
containing . A member name might be in storage passed to DESERV.
Obviously open source is huge. I think what attracts enterprise customers is
not the availability of source* per se but the fact that you can start for
free and decouple growth and cost. How many companies would be running Linux
today if you had to pay $10,000 for your first license? And running
HI Walt,
"... Merely a lack of education on the part of those administrators, in
my opinion. ..."
This reminds me of a contract I worked on a few years ago.
I was working on a project and asked the MVS Group for permission to
invoke ADRDSSU in TSO (because it wasn't in AUTHPGM).
The head
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:10:18 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 17:54:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>>ObSchiller IPCS is part of z/OS. All dangerous facilities of IPCS are
>>controlled by SAF. If your management capriciously prohibits you from using
>>it, the responsibility
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 16:57:42 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> Frankly I don't think I have seen any resistance to OCO in twenty years,
>
>What is FOSS, chopped liver?
>
>> Customers are pressing to have exits go away. In other words, they *want*
>> local customization to be parameters plus
FSVO supports. The last I heard "Whenever a lowercase letter (a through z) is
used, the assembler considers it to be
identical to the corresponding uppercase character (A through Z), except when
it is used within a character string enclosed in apostrophes, or within the
positional and keyword
> Frankly I don't think I have seen any resistance to OCO in twenty years,
What is FOSS, chopped liver?
> Customers are pressing to have exits go away. In other words, they *want*
> local customization to be parameters plus object code, not source code.
Those are two different things. Making
> Are you actually seeing resistance to priced software, or only to OCO
software?
I was referring to the OP's "Is there a ... free alternative emulator ...?"
Frankly I don't think I have seen any resistance to OCO in twenty years,
other than on this list. Many, many customers nowadays would not
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 14:22:49 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>
>USS only as it's enhanced ASCII (file tagging). You could call it from
>TSO using bpxwunix or something similar.
>
Does this, then, rely on auto-conversion which I understand supports
only IBM-1047 <--> ISO8859-1? Suppose a file is
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 10:14:49 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>Sounds to me like an argument for Perl.
>
You could make a similar argument for HLASM because it supports
mixed-case PDS member names over any language restricted to
monocase.
>
>From: David
There's a package that lets oorexx applications invoke Java classes.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday,
Maybe! If you can only run from z/OS UNIX a lot of people might choose
the JVM and Groovy, Kotlin which have the entire Java ecosystem
available (including JZOS).
Whatever flicks your switch I suppose.
On 2020-03-29 6:14 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
Sounds to me like an argument for Perl.
--
> What I don't understand is where the ampersand and dot are coming from in the
> displayed result.
The ampersand and dot are coming from MVSVAR. Technically that complies with
the "unpredictable" in the REXX reference manual. Personally I think that they
should document it, but I can't
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, at 00:08, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> SYMSUB is a REXX routine that he wrote to pass the argument to
> MVSVAR('SYMDEF',*) and display or return the result.
Yes of course, I understand that. What I don't understand is where
the ampersand and dot are coming from in the displayed
Sounds to me like an argument for Perl.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:22 AM
To:
I wrote a UDTF for Db2 interfacing the CSI and it works fine.
But, Db2 is really annoying with user defined functions:
-UDTF: only in Assembler or C.
-Generic UDTF: only in C.
-Parm list for UDF is weird: no number of parm
--
On 2020-03-29 7:21 AM, scott Ford wrote:
John,
Very funny but true, Jack I agree python is getting extremely popular.
According to Tiobe it's been one of the most popular languages for the
last 15 years.
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
I read it was going to takeover from Java.
I
On 2020-03-29 7:42 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
I'm looking at Python on the Rocket site.
Practically speaking, is Python usable from TSO or only from the UNIX command
prompt? That is
USS only as it's enhanced ASCII (file tagging). You could call it from
TSO using bpxwunix or something similar.
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