Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-25 Thread John Gilmore
In rereading that portion of my post that Shmuel quoted it has occurred to me that it could be read as characterizing his 'typo' as vulgar. That was not at all my intent. In classical rhetoric oxymora were and are figures of speech that make use of an apparent but in the event not substantive con

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-25 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In , on 09/24/2012 at 09:39 PM, John Gilmore said: >and he has here committed a [vulgar sense] oxymoron. Actually a typo; that should have been "It started as a feature of OS/360 MVT." -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2 We don

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-24 Thread John Gilmore
Shmuel wrote: TSO was never a separate order number. It started as a feature of OS/360 MVS. and he has here committed a [vulgar sense] oxymoron. OS/360 had an MVT but no MVS. --jg On 9/24/12, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In <50606024.6020...@us.ibm.com>, on 09/24/2012 >at 09:29 AM,

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-24 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 01:47 -0500 on 09/23/2012, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: Official current definition of MVS: Some people will insist that Manhattan is included by the "continental United States"; the map says otherwise. That depends on your definition. If you want to go by the map, only

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-24 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <50606024.6020...@us.ibm.com>, on 09/24/2012 at 09:29 AM, John Eells said: >MVS might have at some point included TSO. Perhaps sooner, but since > MVS Version 1 if I recall correctly, TSO and later TSO/E have been >either: >a) Different products with separate product (order) numbers TSO

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-24 Thread Scott Ford
I remember a lot of products were separate then bundled together. Nccf,NDM and npda for example then it became Netview, just product evolution. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Sep 24, 20

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-24 Thread John Eells
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J. wrote: There is a discussion inn the news group a,lt.folklore.computers as to whether the term "MVS" includes TSO. Can anybody point to an explicit statement from IBM? Thanks. MVS might have at some point included TSO. Perhaps sooner, but since MVS Version 1 if I reca

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-23 Thread Timothy Sipples1
Paul Gilmartin writes: >If it [TSO] appears as a separate line item on invoices from IBM... To my knowledge it does not, at least in relation to z/OS. Timothy Sipples Consulting Enterprise IT

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-23 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes: > OS/VS2 Release 3.8 was the last free MVS[1], and TSO was a part of it. > There were various products that enhanced the free base, including > MVS/SE and TSO Command Package. These were later bundled into larger > products, e.g., MVS/

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-23 Thread Scott Ford
Maybe I am odd, but it doesn't matter to me , working big OS since OS/VS2/HASP Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Sep 23, 2012, at 11:28 AM, "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)" wrote: > In , on 09

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-23 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In , on 09/23/2012 at 09:37 AM, Binyamin Dissen said: >Define what "term" means in this context. 'The term "MVS" in this context means the letter M, the letter V and the letter S, in that order. >I believe that it was a separate FMID, More than one. >but both MVS and TSO were free. OS/VS2

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-23 Thread Binyamin Dissen
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:58:03 -0400 "Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)" wrote: :>There is a discussion inn the news group a,lt.folklore.computers as to :>whether the term "MVS" includes TSO. Can anybody point to an explicit :>statement from IBM? Thanks. Define what "term" means in this context. I believe

Re: Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-22 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:58:03 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: >There is a discussion inn the news group a,lt.folklore.computers as to >whether the term "MVS" includes TSO. Can anybody point to an explicit >statement from IBM? Thanks. > Who cares? And this is another case where prevailing u

Official current definition of MVS

2012-09-22 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
There is a discussion inn the news group a,lt.folklore.computers as to whether the term "MVS" includes TSO. Can anybody point to an explicit statement from IBM? Thanks. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see We do