[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

By saying the keyboard is an ineffective input method I wasn't suggesting that there's anything currently any better than what we have today. I don't know about you but the bottleneck between getting thoughts in my head into my computer is the mechanical act of pushing single character buttons on m

Re: [The Java Posse] Oracle: The IP ninja

Theft of what exactly ? The article does not say which particular software product they stole. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, sen

[The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

Regardless, 10% of Eclipse users is still quite a group of Mac customers. Add in the other Java users and you probably end up with more than enough to fund Java on OSX. Then again, neither Microsoft nor Linux distributions fund Java for their platforms. If Oracle wants to own it, then I suppose

[The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

The linked page says this was a survey of 1696 people. It's not like this 8% number came from Eclipse auto-update statistics. How were these survey respondents chosen? I didn't dig into the published details linked on the page, but personally I doubt the respondents were a statistically valid sa

[The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

I don't think Fabrizio made that argument at all, and he didn't say anything about the relative importance of different kinds of Java developer. IMHO all Java developers are important to the Java community. Even if Mac users represent only 10% (again, assuming the numbers from Eclipse are represen

[The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

I'm with Fabrizio on this one though, I think you underestimate the number of corporate developers in the trenches with Windows. 5-10% Mac sounds about right if I look at my own companys dev department. So while Java Mac devs are not unimportant (who said they were?), they are most definately a min

[The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

FUD. Eclipse runs fantastic on macs, and has for years. On Oct 29, 9:31 pm, Mikael Grev wrote: > Since Eclipse doesn´t run very well on Mac (or at least didn´t last > time I checked) I think that it is NOT a particularily good sample. > IDEA users would probably be a better sample. > > Cheers, >

[The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

What kind of silly argument is this? All programmers are not made equal. What are you trying to say exactly? That Mac OS X java developers aren't all that important because it's only 10%, while at the same time saying that those developers that go to conferences use Mac OS X rather a lot. That does

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

It's more than a drop in the bucket if you want to do it right. Also, it takes talented engineers and those could be working on other projects. On Oct 29, 6:55 pm, Serge Boulay wrote: > "2. Java Desktop will never be a threat. It makes sense for apple to > stop spending the resources on keeping i

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:19 PM, B Smith-Mannschott wrote: > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 21:31, Mikael Grev wrote: > > Since Eclipse doesn´t run very well on Mac (or at least didn´t last > > time I checked) I think that it is NOT a particularily good sample. > > IDEA users would probably be a better

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 21:31, Mikael Grev wrote: > Since Eclipse doesn´t run very well on Mac (or at least didn´t last > time I checked) I think that it is NOT a particularily good sample. > IDEA users would probably be a better sample. Eclipse doesn't run very well on Mac? That wasn't my experi

[The Java Posse] Re: Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

Since Eclipse doesn´t run very well on Mac (or at least didn´t last time I checked) I think that it is NOT a particularily good sample. IDEA users would probably be a better sample. Cheers, Mikael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" grou

Re: [The Java Posse] Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

Uff... the subject should read "less than 10%". -- f.g. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javaposse+unsubscr...@goog

[The Java Posse] Java developers on Mac OS X: less than 8%

A couple of days ago we were discussing on numbers. The Eclipse community has some of them: http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/trends-from-the-eclipse-community-survey/ Mac OS X is at 8%. So, people guessing under 10% were right, assuming that the Eclipse community is a good sample.

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

That might be an interesting way for Oracle to sponsor development. Sort of an Oracle Summer of Code. Cheers, Mark card.ly: On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Serge Boulay wrote: > kind of what I was getting at. A company that has that much money has no > problem fu

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

I think your dead on with the HTML5 direction. On Oct 29, 11:05 am, Robert Casto wrote: > I think all customers are worried about their data. The question is how good > would they be at protecting it. The answer to that is simple. They don't > know anything about the data, how to protect it, but

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

kind of what I was getting at. A company that has that much money has no problem funding a Java team that consists of 4 people. I think it's their way of getting people to develop their platform. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Casper Bang wrote: > > Isn't it a drop in the bucket for a company

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

Hi, As it seems that people aware of OpenJDK port to Mac OS X, Soylatte and JKoala seem to discuss in this thread, let me join you, as the leader of JKoala... First, sorry if JKoala web server was down yesterday but there was a massive attack on many servers two days ago at OVH and I had to update

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

ASF: That code doesn't come from Harmony: https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/read_beyond_the_headers On Oct 29, 4:14 pm, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > On 10/29/2010 04:00 PM, Greg Reddin wrote:> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 4:50 AM, > Fabrizio Giudici > >  wrote: > >> 3. Would be the FSF entitled

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

This is simple: Apple figures that 1 of the 2 options is true. If 1, then they should kill it. If 2, then they shouldn't waste money on it. I don't see how Apple sees an upside to spending any money supporting Java on the Mac -- given that they want everything other than native, platform-spe

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

> Isn't it a drop in the bucket for a company that has close to 50 billion > dollars in the bank to keep Java alive on the Mac? Connect the dots. Apple does not like Java. In light of that, any further analysis seems pointless. I'll bet you, they like it so little they won't even donate their exis

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

"2. Java Desktop will never be a threat. It makes sense for apple to stop spending the resources on keeping it up to date." Isn't it a drop in the bucket for a company that has close to 50 billion dollars in the bank to keep Java alive on the Mac? On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Reinier Zwitser

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

I think all customers are worried about their data. The question is how good would they be at protecting it. The answer to that is simple. They don't know anything about the data, how to protect it, but are very reliant on it. The fact that I can target iPad, iPhone, Palm, Android, and other device

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/29/2010 04:00 PM, Greg Reddin wrote: On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 4:50 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: 3. Would be the FSF entitled for asking to release the whole Harmony under the GPL (+CPE) license? In cascade, wouldn't be Google forced to do the same? And, this is my point, couldn't be this t

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 29 October 2010 14:40, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > On 10/29/2010 02:59 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > >> I don't think you can just pull a license. Once you release your code >> under the BSD, you can't later say: Take Backsies! And release it >> under the GPL instead. You can ALSO release it u

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 4:50 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > 3. Would be the FSF entitled for asking to release the whole Harmony under > the GPL (+CPE) license? In cascade, wouldn't be Google forced to do the > same? And, this is my point, couldn't be this the strategy by Oracle Correct me if I'm

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/29/2010 02:59 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: I don't think you can just pull a license. Once you release your code under the BSD, you can't later say: Take Backsies! And release it under the GPL instead. You can ALSO release it under the GPL, and provide further code contributions only to t

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On Oct 29, 2:39 pm, Ricky Clarkson wrote: > I'm not sure you're screwed in an applet or webstart as you can still, > from JavaScript, prompt the user to install Java if it's missing. Speaking from personal experiences, that's a maintenance nightmare. You can do all kind of integration scripting l

[The Java Posse] Oracle: The IP ninja

"SAP management has insisted for three and a half years of litigation that it knew nothing about SAP's own massive theft of Oracle's intellectual property. Today, SAP has finally confessed it knew about the theft all along. The evidence at trial will show that the SAP Board of Directors valued Or

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

I don't think you can just pull a license. Once you release your code under the BSD, you can't later say: Take Backsies! And release it under the GPL instead. You can ALSO release it under the GPL, and provide further code contributions only to the GPL version, but what's out there is out there. O

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

WebStart? No, no, we covered this at the start of the thread: WebStart and Applets are the *one* java technology that have ceased to be viable due to apple's decision to drop JVM support on out-of-the-box macs. WebStart is a crappy solution, because in a year or so from now that will only run on Wi

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

No, your argument does not make sense. Java Desktop is no threat today. Right. But, this isn't just about today, it's about the future. Two options: 1. Java Desktop becomes a threat. It makes sense for apple to stop this in its tracks. 2. Java Desktop will never be a threat. It makes sense for a

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

It's rather blindingly obvious that Jobs was talking about mobile java / client-side java at the time. At that time (and still today), www.apple.com was running java. On Oct 28, 6:54 pm, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot > wrote: > > > You're misreprese

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

Yup, that's one of the few use cases where you're indeed affected (a lot!) by this news. However, instead of dancing Steve Jobs' jig, why not just turn it into a webapp? Java / Applets aren't really known for their media preview abilities anyway - what can you preview in applets/ jws which can't be

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

I'm not sure you're screwed in an applet or webstart as you can still, from JavaScript, prompt the user to install Java if it's missing. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > I'm guessing you overestimate how cumbersome this would be in a web > app, but regardless of that:

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

I'm guessing you overestimate how cumbersome this would be in a web app, but regardless of that: So? In-House swing apps can remain in- house. Mac market share amongst corporations is tiny, they tend to either be brought in from home by mac afficionados who will surely figure out a way to install a

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/29/2010 01:46 PM, JodaStephen wrote: Some more searching of the harmony commits mailing list reveals PolicyNode: http://harmony.markmail.org/search/?q=PolicyNode but NOT PolicyNodeImpl: http://harmony.markmail.org/search/?q=PolicyNodeImpl This suggests, but does not prove without further

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

Some more searching of the harmony commits mailing list reveals PolicyNode: http://harmony.markmail.org/search/?q=PolicyNode but NOT PolicyNodeImpl: http://harmony.markmail.org/search/?q=PolicyNodeImpl This suggests, but does not prove without further investigation at the svn level, that this cla

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Alexey wrote: > Agreed, but let's keep in mind that things happened that allowed us to > let go of many of the frameworks many of us were initially drawn to. Perhaps I overvalue it, but I don't think the example given by other platforms can be ignored. All it too

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

I checked out what I could find of harmony and android and went looking for PolicyNodeImpl.java in HEAD: git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/libcore.git http://github.com/apache/harmony.git git://github.com/apache/harmony-classlib.git http://github.com/apache/harmony-drlvm.git

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

Robert, does the following look like an option? I personally have never used it but thought I'd toss it out just a note. http://www.zkoss.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@goo

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On 28 Okt., 20:42, Rob Ross wrote: > If that's the case, exactly *what* threat does Java currently pose for the > consumer desktop, specifically Apple's desktop? I can think of three more reasons why Apple doesn't like platforms like Java or Flash - please correct me if I'm wrong here. Firstly

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/29/2010 11:50 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: 1. What if part of the guilty code comes from an IBM donation to Apache? It would be IBM's fault, right? Would Oracle pursue IBM after the deal of the past week? Rethinking of it, indeed this could have been one of the things that helped Orac

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

Has anyone worked out who committed it, and how much Oracle paid them to do so? :) On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > On 10/28/2010 11:18 PM, Craig Kelley wrote: >> >> Also note the absence of generics in the Apache version.  This is >> something you would lose, coming fr

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 11:18 PM, Craig Kelley wrote: Also note the absence of generics in the Apache version. This is something you would lose, coming from a class file. The 'jad' hypothesis seems convincing: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dxmvr/oracle_google_directly_copied_our_java_code