Warner wrote:
> In other good news I am getting Jaguar tomorrow (yeah!). So,
> I can now check out jdk 1.4 ;-).
Hmm, so does this mean you've got a copy of the developer seed copy of
Jaguar?
(According to http://developer.apple.com/java/faq/#gen_2 10.2 isn't
shippin' with JDK 1.4.1 only th
Warner et. al.
Is there an archive for this list so I can get up to speed on what's
been discussed over the past few months?
> I never got into the whole OS 8/9 thing
Heh heh... My Mac days started with the 128K Mac and proceeded until I
fell out of favor with the cult somewhere around oh '93
Warner -
Interesting links to browse... I like this kind of information that's
already been filtered by a fellow techie. ;-)
I think a web-based location where this kind of link+synopsis could be
captured would be a great addition to the TJUG website.
Has anyone in TJUG meetings discussed a
> In short all of these would be good to put on the site.
:-) I don't believe I've ever gotten positive feedback so quickly.
> Currently I'm hosting it on my personal server (a g3 laptop running OS
X).
> I prefer java solutions (I don't like downloading tons of perl files
> just run one progra
Warner et. al. -
Ever get the feeling you're having a discussion in an empty auditorium?
> Too many languages, not enough time. Currently I would like to learn
> Python and Perl (in that order ;-).
I've always thought I wanted to branch out to Python... but I seem to
fall back to Perl when Java
> > all members who have not voted.
> > Member
> > pk_member_id
> > email
> > PollVote
> > member_id
> > poll_id
> select email from Member, PollVote where Member.pk_member_id !=
> PollVote.member_id and PollVote.poll_id = 4
I'm not a great SQL dude either..but I think this sub-
Well, I was curious to see...looks like mySQL hasn't implemented
sub-selects every as yet. Bummer. But, they show the LEFT JOIN
alternative as Vincent has already pointed out. :-)
http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/ANSI_diff_Sub-selects.html
Excerpt:
MySQL Server currently only supports nested queries
+1 on SWT preso, especially if there was some info on using it
standalone and/or deployed using java web start, and/or on a Jeode JVM.
> Due to the lack of volunteers to present for the next meeting
Well, thinking in a vaguely similar vein, the Thinlet.com stuff builds
widgets entirely with AWT (
Howdy Folks -
As promised in the meeting, here are two links to an introductory and
follow-up article on using Java Web Start (JWS).
---
Deploying Software with JNLP and JavaTM Web Start
Going Beyond the Java Plug-in
By John Zukowski
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Prog
> I would like to offer a presentation for December's topic covering
> Object-Relational mapping tools.
An emphatic +1 :-)
> Some of the tools I would be reviewing will be:
> Castor (castor.exolab.org)
> Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/)
> Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque)
>
> Well, [Warner] personally have some issues with EJB ;-). If I saw a
good
> presentation on it maybe I'd change my mind.
I agree with you, especially with the 1.1 spec, but I did see a
compelling preso on 2.x last year at JavaOne...Tyler Jewell from BEA
gave a talk on EJB 2.x and fired me up t
>plus I'm still waiting to hear about my "Membership" proposal ;-).
If membership fees enable more heat and snacks at the meetings, then I'm
all for em'.
Tim
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> His scope was TOO BIG from
> the beginning and certainly doesn't need widening!
+1
(That's why I want to get my favorites near the top. )
> I advocate that
> we stick with the original idea (maybe even cut it down to 3 or 4)
> and save the EJB stuff for sometime later (maybe the following mont
Simon -
> We still need a good supply of 15 min presenters though, so don't
> hesitate to volunteer if you think of something.
My offer to do a quickie preso on Thinlet.com stuff still stands if
anyone is interested.
FYI - I'm also looking into enode.com, swingml.com, and luxor...but
thinlet w
> Heat is difficult. It would take a lot to get our systems
> manager to raise the temperature of that room. And he would
> demand payment in Guinness. :)
I'd gladly pay in Guinness.
Seriously though, aren't there any conference rooms that aren't
sub-arctic that could be used? :-)
Or perhaps
> Castor (castor.exolab.org)
+0
> Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/)
+1
> Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque)
+1
> OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb)
-1
> TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/)
-1
> My preference would be to drop TJDO and then present that
> later on it's own.
+1
OJB
Hey folks -
I just ran across an old work email of mine with some JDO discussion.
I'm not sure where the link is on the website, but when I first joined
the list, I think Simon sent around a link to a previous discussion on
Solarmetrics JDO product (Kodo JDO).
http://www.solarmetric.com/
War
> Jon Thomas wrote:
> >say that I installed the eclipse beta today and like it already.
> [Simon] too.
>
> There are some great enhancements. Maybe with the new AntView plugin,
> even Erik will be assimilated. ;)
Hmmm... I guess I'll have to have a look at it again too. :-)
I switched from Vis
Hah... first thought from reading just the subject line was that Warner
was bashing Windows XP.
Curious - regarding collaboration, has anybody come across a
collaborative text editor kinda like 'talk' on a *nix box? I'm thinking
if one doesn't exist, I might try my hand at writing it. Often times
I found these two articles to be interesting reads on a simple way to
unmarshal data from XML into java objects using the Jakarta Digester.
Seems a little bit like a lightweight one-way read-only JAXB. :-)
Cheers,
Timo
---
http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/2746
Does anyone have some up to date JDK 1.4.x drag and drop code examples?
Thanks,
Timo
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Erik -
> Digester is cool if, as you noted, only wanted a read-only model of
> data. Its great for configuration files or just sucking some
> XML into an object graph.
>
> For a more sophisticated approach, I highly recommend Castor.
Thanks, yep, I agree that it suits nicely to config files.
(
Okay - so probably there's a cookbook out there for this...but I'm going
to be lazy and ask the group.
I've got an ArrayList of HashMaps. Each map contains three name/value
pairs:
list of 3 items:
( userid="jsmi"
first="Joe"
last="Smith" )
( userid="tcolson"
first="Tim"
last="
What's the manifest/file structure look like?
Probably wrong, but could it be case sensitivity in the manifest file
Main Class attrib?
Tim
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Say - if you're looking for a coding exercise that isn't quite so...uh..
pedestrian (sorry, injected my own opinion there ), I've been
playing with the JXTA Peer2Peer code kit and would love to collaborate
with somebody.
P2P with yourself isn't much fun. ;-)
My goal currently is to:
1) get the d
Yuma +1
;-)
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Ritchie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 1:28 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [jug-discussion] Tuesday's presentation
>
>
> Well, unfortunately we have an upset to the schedule. Warner
> will not be
> ab
Seriously though... I hadn't realized until this morning that the
Thinlet idea for a mini-preso was green lighted. ;-)
> 1. We twist Tim's arm and make him do a longer presentation
> on Thinlets.
I can do a 15 min talk about almost anything (including probably Yuma)
with only a days notice... bu
> I just want to apologize to everyone but unfortunately
No worries. :-)
I'll bore everyone with a thin intro to Thinlets, and then Simon can
blow us away with snazzy Yuma photos.
> I still want to do it, but it will have to be in January.
> I have already setup CVS for the source files and I
It's always kind of funny when my relatives will ask me, "Have you seen
the website: www..com??" They're amazed that I
missed that one out of the 4 billion websites they assume I've seen.
Anyway - in that same spirit, I was a bit amazed this evening when
nobody in the room had heard of the dom4j p
> but I assume from the name
> that it might be one of those ex-IBM projects? They all
> seem to have the name "4J".
Bzt. I'm not aware of an IBM tie-in.
The main chap involved is James Strachan, he's also authored quite a few
Jakarta bits and Jaxen XPATH (http://www.apache.org/~jstrachan/).
> > I'm wondering if there is a plugin or add-on or third-party
> application
> > that Eclipse designers use for building Swing, AWT, or SWT
> > GUI's(?). Something graphical for designing forms and dialogs, etc.
> They are active and you will probably get your
> best answer through that commu
Hey folks -
I've found quite a few interesting articles on the theme of describing
the GUI in XML and using a library to render the view using the
technology du jour. And yes, you'll notice there are both an SWT and a
.Net article down below. Little somethin' for everyone.
Cheers,
Timo
---
> I'm starting to get excited about trying to code something again.
I understand. Intellij IDEA did that for me with Java.
One feature that actually thrilled me, especially when I was newish to
Java is auto-import of packages. Type "ArrayList" and a little pop-up
balloon appears with the suggesti
Martin wrote:
> At a past meeting on XML and DOM I
> showed how to have C# form write itself as an xml file
That would be interesting code to see. (speaking for myself at least)
Say - perhaps we could do a joint preso where the same XML descriptor is
used render a simple application using Java an
Say folks - this is off topic - just wondering if anybody (or somebody
you know) has a Sony VAIO portable CD I could borrow for a day or two?
Thanks,
Tim
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Someone with more JWS experience can confirm/deny/correct...but I am
under the impression that if you launch the application using a Java Web
Start JNLP file, all of the jars will be cached. Additionally, if the
library jars are referenced with an absolute URL in the JNLP, then those
jars can be sh
If interested in Java Web Start -> have a look here:
http://vamphq.com/
-- All sorts of resources.
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-2001/jw-0706-webstart.html
-- JavaWorld July 2001 article.
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Programming/jn
lp/
-- Simple how-to from
Anthony -
> Although Web Start looks interesting, I was thinking in terms of
> deploying a standalone application. The calculator example from the
> Thinlet site, for example, can be deployed either as an
> application or an applet. Same for the demo app.
Sounds to me like there might be so
> Warner will be doing his long-awaited presentation on
Whoo Hoo. I await the preso with baited breath. :-)
> However, we are still in need of a presenter for the 15min time slot.
Heh heh... if truly nobody steps up, I'll gladly do the super-short
version of the Thinlet preso again since most f
On Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 03:47 PM, Tim Colson wrote:
>> did anybody else see the article in Java Pro this month.
> Yep. It was pathetic, IMHO. Should have been in the magazine,
> "JavaNovice" instead of JavaPro. ;-)
> > That's no way to talk
>Oh no! Here comes the self-censorship argument again ;-)
Ha! :-)
I stick my foot in my mouth all the time... it tastes of vanilla and
cardamom.
Cheers,
Timo
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> I can always talk about OGNL and how it can help your programming
> project. Not WebOGNL this time, but OGNL the language and it's uses.
> Is there any interest in that?
Yep. From me at least. I must say, I was a bit turned off by the website
intro since I'm one of the chaps that likes the Mode
> Are you talking about WebOGNL? Which website intro?
ognl.org -> click on OGNL...read down the page a bit...
"One of my pet peeves has always been what I call "garbage code". This
is code that is written purely to satisfy a framework's API requirements
(Struts is my current target in this are
Whoa there...
Drew started out nicely here:
> I wrote that while updating the site one day and it got
> a little out of hand...
But then launched back into a longish anti-Struts, anti-Velocity,
anti-MVC, anti-establishment, anti-pink-fuzzy-dice rant. (I swear I read
about dice, no? )
I didn't w
Erik wrote:
>> <%= request.getSession().getAttribute("count") %>
> a seasoned Struts developer wouldn't use scriptlets anyway.
>
Excellent point. Personally, I have a love/hate relationship with those
pesky taglibs, I love them over scriptlets, but I hate having to learn a
new syntax, especiall
> Just quick correction, I didn't post the Velocity snippet - Timo did.
Yep, I'll take blame for that. :-)
Erik wrote:
> Although my blog is Velocity generated! I know very little about it.
> Its ok, but not something I'd use for a web presentation project
Heh heh... I know very little about W
Hey Drew -
Last night you were talking about the built-in XML
serialization/marshalling... if I understood correctly.
Have any sample code and/or some links to more info?
And how does this compare and/or fit in with JAXB? I thought that was
the XML-Object project, no?
Thanks!
Tim
Warner-
> I got hibernate working to persist a class
Cool beans. :-)
I forgot I also had the Hibernate PDF docs on my laptop last night, was
looking through it this morning, and it seems to have a lot more info
than we might have thought at first pass. I find myself having work
cycles to spend on
FYI gang -
Dennis wrote:
> > There are java.beans.XMLEncoder and java.beans.XMLDecoder classes in
> > 1.4, though I don't know if these were what Drew talked about.
Drew wrote:
> That's the XML stuff I was talking about last night.
Ok... a Google for XMLEncoder brought me to this article which i
> This is a persistence layer that, guess what, persists your objects
> without a database. Very interesting. Has anyone heard of or
> used this yet?
Yes, I ran across it a few months ago and my workgroup had some
discussion on the topic.
IIRC we came to a few conclusions:
1) interesting idea f
> There's a very nice article on ZDNet discussing how FCCI
Dennis -
Thanks for that, indeed a good article. I especially liked the nods to
Velocity as a template engine (it rocks) and later the mention of
Thinlets and Swing Apps as a next step up from servlets.
"We have progressed from writing
Tom wrote:
> p.s. So, just to make it official, I vote for the:
> TJUG green gecko tricolor by Tim Colson/Thomas Hicks:
Well, Tom apparently not only "has no shame"...but is also scarce on
humility. ;-)
If Tom's 'derivative form' of my logo submission is select
> This is fascinating. Its interesting to see Sun engineers asking the
> same questions my customers ask me. "Why is java using so much
> memory", or "Why does the JVM crash so frequently".
The article was indeed interesting and certain to spark debate and/or
flames.
One thing that I thought curi
Say - just realized the meeting is in 3 short days... topic anyone?
---
Somewhat related question:
Bit of a weird question - but would anybody be interested in spending a
couple hours with laptops, hubs, wireless to try some XP style
programming on a topic like JXTA, Hibernate, other?
(I'm th
I was trying to find the "WOW" website so I could pilfer...err, learn
from the CSS layout. Google is cool, but "WOW" yields a heck of a lot of
hits. ;-)
Not sure if everyone heard that Molly has her own website - and it has
links to the WOW and WaSP site, plus all sorts of other juicy bits of
info
FYI - Textpad (among others) have a "Find in Files" feature that will
search all *.foo files in a dir and sub dirs on a windoze box... and you
can use a regex in the search pattern.
Timo
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Damn work - always getting in the way of my life. ;-)
I'm was out in San Jose for last months meeting, and will still be here
well past this months meeting. Ugh.
Just wanted to show support to Dennis and Rob, and say thanks for
presenting, sorry I can't be there. :-(
Timo
---
This seems simple, but I'm missing it in the manual and Google is no
help.
I set up a fileset stuff here..
and now I want to see what the actual path looks like to verify.
gives me no love.
How do I print out the value of that classpath ref?
Second part of this question. I have a spiffy
> :( You didn't buy "the definitive guide", huh? That would be Java
> Development with Ant (Manning). :))
Hah. Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
Seriously - you are way too helpful - so I just ordered/dloaded the
ebook. :-)
ORDER SUBMITTED
--
Drew asked:
> Are these hibernate files actually becoming part of the source
> (i.e. you build then modify the files) or are they build artifacts
> (i.e. you generate them every time you build)?
Good points from both Drew and Erik.
Right now the hibernate mapping files are part of the sourc
LOL. :-)
The Velocity Tools (aka "Struts & Velocity") and Interesting Bits from
JavaOne are really just two short topics. ;-)
I assumed JFreeChart would have the lion's share of time.
Curious - who's planning on coming tonight, I hear last month was a
little anemic.
Cheers,
Timo
> -Orig
> Eddie said he can speak for about half an hour. How long do you think
> you will speak for Tim?
Well, I could drone on for hours... but that'd impact beer drinkin'
time.
Seriously, the VelocityTools stuff is prolly 20-30 min and the JavaOne
stuff is about 10-15.
Timo
---
Hmm... I lied folks. Apparently I took more notes at JavaOne 2003 than
at first I remembered. (I had a nasty cold for the entire week, so I
honestly don't remember parts of the week.)
Anyway - I've got 25 slides so far and another 10 pages of notes to
condense.
There are bits that might even be i
Howdy gang -
For the few folks that were around last night, it was fun to chat
about JFreechart and JavaOne stuff over beer. As promised, I sent the
full preso to Rene to post to the TJUG site.
FYI - we skipped the VelocityTools stuff, but the preso is ready and
waiting(a 1.0 release is b
Got a question, maybe somebody has some ideas.
Brief background, I've created an ant task so that a non-developer can
fire up a local HSQL database and webapp using Tomcat.
All the pieces work, but I'm having problems with the db and tomcat
startup/shutdown because they are persistent processes,
Howdy Rob -
> Sun takes little of the financial risk involved in putting on JavaOne,
> and thus gets little of the money paid by attendees,
Ah, I understand, makes sense...
> I don't begrudge the original quote since, just looking on the surface
> of it, I'd have the same gripe he did if I thou
Hey folks -
I've been using HSQLDB and Hibernate for local development for about a
month. I really like HSQLDB, the manager, and have some ant tasks to
create schemas, load sample data, and such.
If anybody is interested, I'd be happy to do a talk on HSQLDB at some
point.
Timo
--
ing
>
>
> Tim,
>
> It doesn't look like we've had too many volunteers for
> presentations. I
> guess we can either go with your Velocity + Struts
> presentation or skip
> the meeting. How long is your presentation?
>
> Simon.
>
> Tim Colson
Howdy Folks -
The traffic on the list and attendance at the meetings for the last
couple months has been...shall I say, "less robust" than normal. Summer
months involve travel, family vacations and such - so this is probably
to be expected.
Unless there are a lot of folks planning to show up
Poolman hasn't been available for a while, the author removed the
website and said he wasn't developing for it anymore.
http://www.codestudio.com/ is empty... but
http://www.codestudio.com/index.shtml shows the old homepage with the
2.0.3 version.
A beta for 2.1 came out in Oct, 2001... but that's
Hey folks - a quick but late followup here (I was out of the country the
past two weeks.)
We do a mix of what Erik and Rene described.
We create a db-neutral create template which builds the schema, and
another template which populates data.
Ant runs the show - first taking the template and pr
Howdy folks -
I'm still good with the Tuesday meeting. Looks like that is Veterans
Day - not one that is observed where I work.
Cheers,
Timo
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Chad wrote:
> Unfortunately, I work from Phoenix Mon-Wed, so I can never make the
> meetings, or else I would volunteer for some presentations.
> I did make the Velocity presentation, and I'm very glad I did.
>
> We need to webcast the meetings :)
Interesting idea.
Live broadcast would be e
Some dude named "Hatcher" wrote an article on Lucene for Java.net:
http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/11/07/QueryParserRules.html
Cheers,
Timo
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Thomas wrote:
> Does anyone know of a framework which
> would support the use of servlets which
> are accessed by multiple network clients
> without any use of web pages (HTML)
> what-so-ever?
I don't. Err, I didn't. Well, I still don't... but I just ran across a
link that sounds like a "maybe thi
Say folks -
Every day I run across 'interesting' articles/websites related to
Java, and I'm sure most of you do too.
So howabout posting them to the list? :-)
Cheers,
Timo
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I thought this was a fun read. :-)
Timo
-
http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22300
Cameron Purdy started a blogfest with his original piece, gratuitously
titled, "Why does Open Source suck?". He is a little sick at how some
people see projects that are open source as autom
Anybody here tried/used this load test tool?
http://jakarta.apache.org/jmeter/
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Hatcher wrote:
> I think a few locals have used it:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/047120708X
Vince admitted that he'd used it too.
I'd sure be interested in a preso/intro in person. ;-)
Timo
-
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Hey -
Are the JXTA folks signed up to the list yet? Ellie? Jeremy? :-)
The discussion was interesting, got me thinking again about p2p apps.
The main topic (as I understood it) was how to search multiple peers for
metadata and retrieve the data from the peers in the peergroup. I never
was sur
Elly -
> I have thought about your suggestion during the weekend.
Actually, it wasn't a suggestion. It was a question for my own
theoretical application which has different req'ts from the MD3 app. :-)
> Every peer will be contacted in some way that the
> information of all other peers in th
> Long topic - An Introduction to J2ME Development - Jeffrey Peacock
Dec 8...rats, it sucks that I'll be in SJ that week. :-(
> Jeffrey has several presentations on J2ME
> 'Advanced J2ME Development'
+1
> 'Java On A Chip: Robotics using the Javelin Stamp'.
+1 + "cl, I want one"
http://www
Hey folks -
I'm wondering if anybody has seen pre-built widgets that look/function
like those in Apple's brushed metal iTunes/iPhoto/iFoo?
(I'm not talking about just a look and feel like Alloy, I truly mean
custom widgets.)
Thanks,
Timo
--
Before anybody gets excited, I'm just curious - not looking to hire.
What are some of the IT consulting companies in Tucson that do custom
programming/services (not specifically Java)?
Page 358 of the Qwest Yellow pages has list...but few with websites.
Googling for the websites has produced mixe
> > What are some of the IT consulting companies in Tucson that
> do custom programming/services (not specifically Java)?
>
> Well, here's a few that I know of specifically:
All interesting, but most of the example appear to be one person
operations.
Are there any consulting companies of say 50
Robert -
>I'm interesting in using Velocity for the view
> layer, rather than jsp,
Bravo. :-)
> but I'm finding something of a... lack of online
> documentation regarding the integration.
Really? I helped write a fair bit of the Velocity Tools + Struts Docs.
http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/
Zeroconf (Apple's name for their version is Rendezvous(tm) )
I'm slightly fascinated with self-forming networks, especially adhoc
wireless, but I didn't know what to do about local IP config without a
DHCP server - seems I don't have to do anything due to Link Local
address assignment. Big slap on
Howdy Gang -
I'm generally a fan of beer and wine, but does seem kind of a shame
not to have a java topic first. :-(
Curious - anybody interested in JXTA coding?
http://www.jxta.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=89518&listName=discuss
I'm thinking about folks jumping onto a LAN and working through
Bruce -
I can't help on the cottage/guesthouse thing, but the entire city is
fairly mellow in my opinion, and good
hiking/road-biking/mtn-biking/rollerblading/rock-climbing is everywhere
- if you aren't a wuss about the heat. ;-)
> does the time/place get sent here?
http://tucson-jug.org/ has th
Hey Folks -
Looking at my original email, I see now that I should have worded it
better or sent two separate emails.
I was trying to say two things:
1) it would be a shame to not have some Java topic before socializing.
I thought this might goad Simon/Warner into at least a 15 minute talk.
Mayb
Howdy folks -
Let me try this again. :-)
I think it might be fun to grab some burritos from a local place (ex.
Chipotle/Rubios/Chuy's) and work on a little bit of code in a group.
Extreme programming in action. :-)
I'm personally interested in stuff that I can't try out in my day-job.
JXTA, J
We stick the following at the top of our ANT build.xml:
default.properties is stored in CVS, build.properties is NOT stored in
CVS and lives only on the developers local machine.
Anything in build.props that is set overrides the defaults... they can
be 'different' and it works pretty w
> What sequence is going to work best? I'm guessing:
My vote would be for the reverse order. Gives Nick plenty of time plus a
chance to get us familiar with some of the concepts that might be
revisited by Chad/Andrew.
> 3. Nick - Mock Objects using Aspect (1hr)
> 2. Chad - Bytecode manipulation
Not necessarily Java - the dev site is down so I can't verify... but
darn interesting none the less...
I was cleaning up a few files, and ran across my notes on a 3 year old
quest of mine to re-find "ChipWits". Ostensibly, CW was a game written
in MacForth that ran on the original 128K Mac. The p
I happened to be browsing Atlassians Open Source page... started looking
at FatCow and liked what I saw. It's a wiki macro that runs HTML test
cases using HTTP Unit. I think that is a truly novel idea! I'd even do a
preso on it.
http://opensource.atlassian.com/
The only downside... FatCow (oh wha
> > However, someone made a claim to me recently that some
> information stored as a session attribute could be alterred
> directly by the user, client side, and therefore posed a
> security risk to a particular application.
I can constract a scenario where that could be true...
Say a web app
Say - has anybody tried this out? I read about it 'bout a year ago...
neat sounding.
http://www.prevayler.org/wiki.jsp
Cheers,
Timo
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> I can constract a scenario where that could be true...
But I obviously can't spell.
Tiom
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Say Todd -
After you get that preso ready for the PHX JUG, what kind of bribe
might it take to convince you to take the presentation on a roadshow
down to the Old Pueblo for a TJUG meeting?
Cheers,
Tim
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When asked what it would take to do a roadshow preso at TJUG, the Pres.
of the PHX Jug, Todd Ellerman, graciously answered:
> Group of people to join me for dinner over at el corral or pinnacle
> peak. (Don't have to pay for my meal, just give me an excuse
> to go and speak "propeller" ;)
Sou
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