[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

Larry Niven solved this a long time ago. Almost everyone has SOMETHING of value, if nothing more than a purty mouth. Make him sell one of his livers until he raises enough Restitution. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > > > The issue is "restitution" vs "re

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 11 May 2010, Jay P Hailey was heard to say: > When i said Libertopia doesn't do "Punishment" well, i was > considering this a positive aspect. > > Even if considered in the negative light, I think it would be a > good exchange to make for

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> The issue is "restitution" vs "retribution/revenge". Agreed. Perhaps I wasn't clear. When i said Libertopia doesn't do "Punishment" well, i was considering this a positive aspect. Even if considered in the negative light, I think it would be a good exchange to make for a society and a cu

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> The issue is "restitution" vs "retribution/revenge". Agreed. Perhaps I wasn't clear. When i said Libertopia doesn't do "Punishment" well, i was considering this a positive aspect. Even if considered in the negative light, I think it would be a good exchange to make for a society and a cu

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

At 11:34 AM 5/10/2010, you wrote: > > > >--- In >LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, > >Wraith wrote: > > > > At 06:42 PM 5/9/2010, you wrote: > > > > > Is a Justice League, that does nothing but ENFORCE THE > > > NON-AGGRESSION PRINCIPLE, a Sta

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wrote: > > Depends on ones definitions. How is it defining Initation? > The same way the Non-Aggression Principle is defining it I imagine.

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wrote: > > At 06:42 PM 5/9/2010, you wrote: > > > Is a Justice League, that does nothing but ENFORCE THE > > NON-AGGRESSION PRINCIPLE, a State? > > Depends on ones definitions. How is it defining Initation? Oh jeez don't even go there. Nex

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

At 03:16 AM 5/10/2010, you wrote: > > > >--- In >LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, > >Wraith wrote: > > > > As for "justice", it is what ever those with > > the power say that it is > > > >No it isn't. You did notice the use of quotation mark

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wrote: > > As for "justice", it is what ever those with > the power say that it is > No it isn't.

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wrote: > > Anarchy is an ideal. > Yep, and it is a DIFFERENT ideal from the Non-Aggression Principle. I prefer NAP.

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

At 07:03 PM 5/9/2010, you wrote: > > > >There are a lot more places than the USA. Which Article did the >Chinese Justice System grow from? The British had a Justice System >long before the Colonies began. The same as most others. The monster Mao was right when he proclaimed that power comes fro

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

At 06:42 PM 5/9/2010, you wrote: > > > >Is a Justice League, that does nothing but ENFORCE THE >NON-AGGRESSION PRINCIPLE, a State? Depends on ones definitions. How is it defining Initation? Not to mention the problems inherent in "enforcing". This problem demonstrates exactly what I was speak

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

There are a lot more places than the USA. Which Article did the Chinese Justice System grow from? The British had a Justice System long before the Colonies began. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Lee Wilson" wrote: > > > --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, W

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wrote: > > At 05:23 PM 5/9/2010, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >--- In > >libertarianenterpr...@y\ ahoogroups.com, > >Wraith wraith@ wrote: > > > > > > There is also a market for initiation... > >

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

Is a Justice League, that does nothing but ENFORCE THE NON-AGGRESSION PRINCIPLE, a State? Sure, it could be unstable. But it is a lot more stable than Anarchy, which has never lasted more than a year anywhere... always degenerates into Initiation Of Force, since only Market forces are at work

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

At 05:23 PM 5/9/2010, you wrote: > > > > >--- In >LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, > >Wraith wrote: > > > > There is also a market for initiation... > > As long demonstrated by history. > > > >Absolutely. One reason why it is better to have a

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wrote: > > There is also a market for initiation... > As long demonstrated by history. > Absolutely. One reason why it is better to have an Justice League institution than to have plain Market Anarchy.

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> > > Retribution attempts to punish the perpetrator > > > >You say that like it's a bad thing. But in truth Retribution has >value to many people and there is a Market for it. There is also a market for initiation... As long demonstrated by history. > > > > and leaves the victim with nothing b

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Lee Wilson" wrote: > > Retribution attempts to punish the perpetrator > You say that like it's a bad thing. But in truth Retribution has value to many people and there is a Market for it. > > and leaves the victim with nothing but > emo

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 09 May 2010, Dennis Lee Wilson was heard to say: > We currently live in a culture primarily dedicated to retribution > and revenge (and building prisons). Bruce Benson's Enterprise of > Law does an excellent job of explaining how we came to

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 09 May 2010, Dennis Lee Wilson was heard to say: > Bruce Benson's Enterprise of > Law does I refuse to be surprised any more...: http://mises.org/daily/2542 - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > > This is one area where the Libertopian, Free Market Anarchism deal falls > down - punishment. > > The Libertopian system doesn't punish bad people worth a damn. > The issue is "restitution" vs "retribution/revenge". Restitu

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Curt Howland wrote: > > At the Austrian Scholar's Conference 2010, there was a panel of > "Libertarian Lawyers" that I found exceptionally interesting. > One pointed out how the concept of "punishment" was actually a > carry-over from Cannon Law of

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Jay P Hailey wrote: > How do you prove intent? At the Austrian Scholar's Conference 2010, there was a panel of "Libertarian Lawyers" that I found exceptionally interesting. One pointed out how the concept of "punishment" was actually a carry-over from Cannon Law o

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > > Like I said - I think we have to draw a line that > leaves intent and other intangible things out > but encloses objectively measurable effects. > Otherwise, we're trying to decide how to detect, meaaure and resolve > som

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

gt; > > - "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > > > From: "Jay P Hailey" > > To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2010 8:01:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question - > > >

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > > > Libertarian society CAN punish violations of the Non-Aggression > > Principle.. It is entirely moral to have a > > Justice League that helps Victims hunt down and punish Aggressors. After > > all, enforcing NAP is nev

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> I don't think I said we don't use bombs. Lots of good engineering uses > for explosives. I said we don't use them against human beings, because > they're sloppy and kill uninvolved bystanders. Again you assume someone who can PARSE that, or juudge what the effect of being a dumbass with exp

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> Jay, I love you like a brother, but you still don't understand > libertarianism. We will defend ourselves against folks doing stuff to us, > we won't do things to other folks. The Zero Aggression Principle is too > simple to play in Network News. > > -- > Ward Griffithswdg...@comcas

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> Bad example: there was no INTENT. I never sadi anything about real Torts. > Rephrase your scenario in terms of am intentional ATTEMPT TO INITIATE > FORCE and I'll show you a neat surprise. How do you prove intent? because I am not going to shoot anybody because yoou say he had a bad intent

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> Libertarian society CAN punish violations of the Non-Aggression > Principle.. It is entirely moral to have a > Justice League that helps Victims hunt down and punish Aggressors. After > all, enforcing NAP is never > a violation of NAP. Only if you know for absolutely certain that the target

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

omcast.net - "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > From: "Jay P Hailey" > To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2010 8:01:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question - > > > For example, Michael

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

-- - "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > From: "Jay P Hailey" > To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2010 8:01:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question - > > > For example, Micha

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > > This is one area where the Libertopian, > Free Market Anarchism deal falls down - punishment. > > The Libertopian system doesn't punish bad people worth a damn. > Libertarian society CAN punish violations of the Non-Agg

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

Bad example: there was no INTENT. I never sadi anything about real Torts. Rephrase your scenario in terms of am intentional ATTEMPT TO INITIATE FORCE and I'll show you a neat surprise. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Jay P Hailey" wrote: > > > He has Initiated Force against som

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> For example, Michael Jackson hired a Witch Doctor to cast a spell that > would harm an enemy. > It turned out that Witch Doctors cannot actually cast spells that harm > people, but Jackson was > too stupid to know that; he definitely INTENDED to do what he could to > harm his enemy by > Forc

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

> He has Initiated Force against some people (those who might have > been harmed if he had been a little smarter). Therefore anyone > who was at risk, AND anyone who is a friend of such a person > and is asked to retaliate, may blow the sonofabitch away without > Initiating Force - it is only a R

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Curt Howland wrote: > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Zack Bass wrote: > > I say screw that, a victim if Initiation of Force ought to be able to > >retaliate without being held to be Initiating Force.  The hell with DEFENSE > >ONLY. > > Then b

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg...@... wrote: > > > Let's say they are the plaintiffs - the complainants. > > Although the alleged dumb bomber didn't know them > > he wound up targeting them for attempted murder > > "Attempted Murder", unless there was assault involved, > is

Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Zack Bass wrote: > I say screw that, a victim if Initiation of Force ought to be able to >retaliate without being held to be Initiating Force.  The hell with DEFENSE >ONLY. Then be ready to die, as the others defend themselves against you. > and the times they a

[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -

He has Initiated Force against some people (those who might have been harmed if he had been a little smarter). Therefore anyone who was at risk, AND anyone who is a friend of such a person and is asked to retaliate, may blow the sonofabitch away without Initiating Force - it is only a Response